Lecture by HH Bhakti Carudesna Swami at ISKCON Mayapur on 2016-03-17
Hare Krishna, so I’m very blessed today be sitting in this huge asana, actually I’m not qualified to do this. There is something that is called seva, by reading Srimad Bhagavatam it will purify you as well as purifies me as well. I see may senior Prabhupada disciples, sanyasis and senior matajis as well and gurus also. I’ll tell you, I’m not, my first language is French, I’m coming from Ivory Coast, Cote d’Ivoire, so French is my first language, and I’m trying to speak English. So you can bear with the accent, sometimes I say something I don’t mean, because of the accent. So please forgive and forget me, Hare Krishna
Reading from Srimad Bhagavtam 7th Canto 2nd chapter verse 22
TEXT 22
nitya ātmāvyayaḥ śuddhaḥ
sarvagaḥ sarva-vit paraḥ
dhatte ’sāv ātmano liṅgaṁ
māyayā visṛjan guṇān
TRANSLATION
The spirit soul, the living entity, has no death, for he is eternal and inexhaustible. Being free from material contamination, he can go anywhere in the material or spiritual worlds. He is fully aware and completely different from the material body, but because of being misled by misuse of his slight independence, he is obliged to accept subtle and gross bodies created by the material energy and thus be subjected to so-called material happiness and distress. Therefore, no one should lament for the passing of the spirit soul from the body.
PURPORT
Hiraṇyakaśipu very intelligently described the position of the soul. The soul is never the body, but is always completely different from the body. Being eternal and inexhaustible, the soul has no death, but when the same pure soul desires to enjoy the material world independently, he is placed under the conditions of material nature and must therefore accept a certain type of body and suffer the pains and pleasures thereof. This is also described by Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā (13.22). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo ’sya sad-asad-yoni janmasu: the living entity is born in different families or species of life because of being infected by the modes of material nature. When conditioned by material nature, the living entity must accept a certain type of body, which is offered by nature under the direction of the Supreme Lord.
īśvaraḥ sarva–bhūtānāṁ
hṛd–deśe ’rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhrāmayan sarva–bhūtāni
yantrārū
hāni māyayā
“The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone’s heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.” (Bg. 18.61) The body is just like a machine, and according to the living entity’s karma, he is offered a particular type of machine to move here and there under the control of material nature. This continues until he surrenders to the Supreme Personality of Godhead (mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14]). Until he surrenders, the conditioned soul is carried from life to life by the arrangement of material nature.
LECTURE
Hare Krishna, so as we are reading the activities, message from Hiranyakashipu. When I read again the translation it is just like Krishna speaking to Arjuna in BG chapter 2 text 13
” dehino ‘smin yatha dehe”
So here the person speaking is a demon, demon. So can we allow demon also to come and sit here? Hiranyakashipu, Kamsa Ravana, Bakashur etc., do we invite all of them to sit here? Because they all say the same thing? What is the difference? It is not different. Soul doesn’t die, soul leaves the body after the death, even the demon knows, there is material world and spiritual world, demon knows.
S0 if you see Hiranyakashipu in his past life, yesterday he was saying this is a lila, the four Kumaras went to vaikunta, and they were naked, they were so small boys. So Jay and Vijay, the door keepers could not recognise their spiritual potency, and they said you boys are not qualified to be here. So this led to the curse. When they were cursed, they were asked do you want to come to material world 10 times as devotee or 3 times as demons. Then they made choice because to stay too long in material world is dangerous. If you see Hiranyakashipu like that then we see, what the danger of being a demon is. This is devotee and demon but it is a lila. If you go to Bhagavad Gita a whole chapter is there “Demoniac nature and Devine nature” there is no lila. In 10th chapter the qualities of demon, it is described there, there is no lila.
So here, Hiranyakashipu is very worried about the death of his brother who is also a demon. What is the difference between Hiranyakashipu and the devotees of Krishna speaking this knowledge and the demon speaking this knowledge? Because Hiranyakashipu after speaking so nicely he arranged so many ways to kill his own son. So when Krishna was speaking this knowledge to Arjuna, Arjuna was very high devotee he didn’t even want to kill. Krishna asks him to kill, because he is in the mode of goodness he refuse to kill. But here Hiranyakashipu is speaking so nicely, that we all know the story how it is stopped, the whole universe. How he tried many ways to kill his son. In Bhagavad Gita 7th chapter 15th verse it is said
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mū
hāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
There it is described four types of miscreants duṣkṛtino, there are also people who also have knowledge narodhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, asura, etc. Māyayāpahṛta, means those who’s knowledge has been stolen by the material energy, “māyayāpahṛta-jñāna”, their knowledge is stolen. They know many things they can’t apply, so we have many people like that. So demon doesn’t necessarily mean those who have red eyes, horns, who live in the forest, emit some fire. No, demons can also have tie, suit case, body guards, Prime ministers, sorry head of states, governors, many many politicians in this world, they are big men, so called big men in this world, but they are demoniac. Just like Hiranyakashipu also is a demon.
There is already one book of my friend nice book about Ramayana. When Kumbakarma went to Brahma to pray, he also prayed like Hiranyakashipu, they want to live for ever, for eternity. It is not possible. So he prayed to Lord Brahma, I want this and that, but Brahma couldn’t say that what you are asking is not possible. Eventually, when Brahma understood that this demon is going to misuse his power, he called Saraswati. She came to sit on the tongue of Kumbakarna, so he was thinking he prayed for. So Kumbakarna prayed for three things while Saraswati was sitting on his tongue.
He instead of asking for nitya, nitya-tvam, eternity, living for ever he asked for Nidra, Nidra-tvam. Nidra means to sleep, very long deep sleep instead of nityatvam he asked for nidra-tvam. Then Brahma said Ok, no problem, Thathastu.
Instead of saying actually for “Indra Asana”, I want the seat of Indra, he asked for “Nidra Asana”, I want a very good bed to sleep. Just like Hiranyakashipu, Kashipu means soft bed, soft and nice bed.
And again instead of asking for Nidhya-vatam, which means annihilation of demons, he asked for Nidravatam, deep sleep.
He basically ask for sleep only, because these things apply here “māyayāpahṛta-jñānā”. Maya knows that this guy is going to misuse his power so he was strict. Kumbakarna sleeps for six months, very long time and for six months. No Mangala Arati, no parikrama, nothing for six months. Six months is a long time. So these things there is difference between demons and devotees.
So the philosophers in this world are like Hirnayaksha, Ravana, Kamsa, Hiranyakashipu, they want to kill God physically, now we don’t see them but actually they are there. Srila Prabhupada said this material world is the place to forget Krishan. That the structure of this place made is such a way we make sure we forget Krishna. That is the material energy or Kali, Kali means to forget Krishna. Those scientist. I’m not saying scientists are unnecessary. But ordinary scientist there in purport independence was there, independence means to remove God and put ourselves. That is living without God, without scriptures. Now a days we have this machine, remote control. You sit in your chair with your remote you control TV, fridge, control Air conditioner, control gas cooking and everything. So we can take that we can live without God.
I was listening to the guru of gurukula, Bhakti Vidhyapurna Maharaj class. He was saying that the word “modern”- the meaning of the word modern society. Modern means, not natural, modern means artificial, modern means something we are creating instead of depending on the Lord. Instead of depending on the law of material energy we are putting aside and create our own way of living. This is the result we are living in here.
So the Jnana we have different type of Yoga system. Jnana, karma, ashtanga Yoga and Bhakti yoga. Jnana, everybody have jnana. That everyone have this knowledge. That is why Hiranyakashipu had this knowledge. Ashtanga yogi also they have knowledge. But their conclusion, they sometimes say “hand justifies the means”. You have knowledge, fine that is ok, but what is the source of the knowledge and what is the objective, what you want to achieve with the knowledge and, what is the source of knowledge it is very important.
In Isopanishad it is called nescience, it is vidhya and avidhya. Prabhupada described nescience, the ignorance, as a cobra having a crown on his head and it is shining and beautiful. But what is the business of the cobra? It bites, and if cobra bites you die. So cobra also look like a king, looks like a pandit to give knowledge, but if we approach him it is death.
So we are. So many people are having knowledge but this knowledge is to push us far away, far away and far away from the Supreme Lord. Now we are like a swan without feather and so material energy is. We are exploiting the material energy. What is the diff between Hiranyakashipu and this material advancement? Now we are flying in the skies, but in the nutshell we pushed the earth planet down, down and down. Want to destroy the earth. What we are doing now is exploiting material energy digging oil from the deep earth and put it in the car, what do you call it is a great pollution. We dig ourselves put petrol in a vehicle and move. All we want now is to move fast. But moving fast doesn’t mean we know where we are going. Just move smoothly and gradually, no. But where you are going, we only know that we are going fast but not know where we are going.
Now the scientist, material scientist and the philosophers, what they know is that it will lead us to recall death. And there are different different levels of consciousness, we have 1st level depending on which level you are. Anyone who situated in Anna-maya, the basic need of them is just eating, mating, sleeping and defending. That person also has knowledge but his knowledge is only based on eating, mating, sleeping and defending. They also have knowledge but he make sure that he gets food, proper food, nice sleep, nice defence and nice mating. All his knowledge will be at the level of this platform and cannot go beyond this platform, cannot go beyond. That is the limit. Then it is prana-maya at least prana-maya is bigger to anna-maya, that we are not the body we are spirit soul. The level of intelligence and mind is higher but we will remain material. So after that material level then we go to level of Jnana-maya. Jnana-maya is ok but with jnana we are progressing with our Jnana. Hiranyakashipu has jnana. Though with the jnana we know karma, reconnection etc. so many things we know. But the knowledge also will remain at the level of material. Then again another level of Vignana, is to apply the knowledge. Because these four levels are not in touch with Krishna these four types of knowledge remain material. Then the last thing is annanda-maya, where we have to be ananda-maya means we are now connected to the Supreme Lord that is bhakti yoga.
Hata-yoga is beginning. Sometimes in the west, everywhere actually people are thinking Hare Krishna people, we are not doing yoga. Even I, our understanding about yoga, yoga means sit down quietly and mediate like “Oum Oum” like that. When we come to Krishna Consciousness we call it bhakti yoga we can see that from morning to evening there is noise, mangala arati there is noise, nrsimha arati we make noise, tulasi arati noise, guru Pooja there is noise, kirtan everywhere in Mayapur compound, kartal, mrindanga noise everywhere. Thus people, they don’t see us as serious yogis. Also when people see our way of life, very opulence we eat so many things so many things subji, rice, dhal, so many things, sweet rice etc. But yogi is supposed to fast, yogi is supposed to be very sane like that. But why ISKCON devotees, yes they are devotees but why they are chanting in the streets, they are supposed to stay in ashram and reading, reading Srila Prabhupada books. Why they are chanting?
The difference is the Jnanis, the yogi is trying to acquire some power, the Jnani is trying to get some knowledge, see Yogis and jnanis do like that but Bhakti Yogi, devotee or bhakta he is different. How they see the deity of the Lord, it is very very sublime. Jnanis and yogis, they don’t know Krishna, so it is for them to sit down and mediate. The gopis used to see Krishna as beauty that is why they curse Brahma why Brahma created these types of eyes, these eyes always blinking all the time, our eyes are also small when we blink one second we don’t see Krishna. So, Brahma is not a good creator. Yogis and Jnanis, because they don’t know what is worshipping, so they think light is all in all. They think sun is all in all, they think material energy all in all, but actually there is something beyond that. In West there is a preaching, the preaching there is bit difficult in there we have traditional religion, we have Christians, Muslims, Buddhist, Ekanka etc. all of them target to reach the lights. The light is the last limit for them. There is a book, “The sound and the light of God”. With intelligence and common sense one may ask there are three things, the light, the sound & the God. So the light and the Sound of who? God. Why wasting our time in sound and light only and forgetting who is possessing this light and sound? So this is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, with that knowledge they can speak thousands of philosophy, big big conferences but they will never think, hey! Wait a minute the sound and the light of God, yes but who is God? They don’t, its Maya, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, knowledge has been stolen.
There is also another book called “Flute of God” who is playing the flute? Krishna is the playing the flute. So we have two schools of knowledge, personalism and impersonalism. The impersonlist one who meditate there is a point there, it is a point called aham. Aham, ie. The self is the same as the Supreme Lord, they don’t know the difference between paramattama and atma. At the level of ashtanga yoga they want to develop mystical siddhis, anything you think manifest. That’s why Hiranyakashipu and his colleagues think they are God. Because if I think this Kartal should move up, then while looking at it and rather thinking automatically it’s going up, it’s like high level of remote control. They think by mistake they are God. I think I want to be in Calcutta and the next moment I’m there? No, so that’s illusion, they think, why not. I think I’m God why not I become God? But God is not searching. By practicing Krishna Consciousness we know that we are not the targets. The targets for the yogis and jnanis is to attain sense control and is to attend salvation etc. But Krishna Consciousness, bhakti yoga, is so special that, we don’t need to be free before practicing Krishna Consciousness.
In Bhagavad Gita 7th Chapter verse 28, it is mentioned that, those whose sins have finished in the past and in the present they can worship me forever that is, dṛḍha-vratāḥ ie., in firm determination. Those whose sins in the past finished and his present sins also finished. To start Krishna Consciousness and in Bhakti Yoga, we need to be at a certain level, that to stop sin is the target, the objective for certain people. To start Krishna Consciousness we have to begin from that level. So what people call lights, we call it brahma-jyoti, the external energy of Supreme Lord. Krishna Consciousness is very very interesting that being a devotee we consider the four type of liberation are already applied.
We are living in the same Salokya mukti, living in the same place of Krishna, we are living in the same dham of Krishna, what Krishna is we are also it. We dress Krishna with dhoti and tilak and we are also dressing like that tilak. Radharani wears saree, matajis also wear saree, the same. Same platform of Krishna that Jnana Ashtanga and all other types of yoga are struggling with the material energy. So Hiranyakashipu is here, speaking philosophy but that application of philosophy is very very difficult.
Also in ISKCON, to conclude we have three levels of knowledge. There are three stages. Frist stage is we all come to Krishna Consciousness, we get the books Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Chaitanya Caritamrita etc. We come to classes and hear Guru speaking, this is acquiring knowledge – Sambandha Jnana, and we are listening to get the knowledge. There is another level that is Abhidaya, application. In the beginning we are many, when we get to apply the number of devotees reduce because to apply means it takes time. We need to stop certain things and concentrate yourself on application. Then when we apply the knowledge then eventually, it transforms. That’s why Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, asked his disciples Santana Goswami and Rupa Goswami, you go to Vrindavan, no need to write books, no no no you go to Vrindavan by living there, people by seeing your activities, your behaviour then they come and also follow.
One thing is to speak the philosophy and another thing is to apply it and another thing also is to manifest what we read and what we have been applying in our life. Of course Hiranyakashipu just is in the first level, Sambanda, he knows but he doesn’t apply. So he cannot manifest in his life.
So after giving this philosophy, he tried to kill his own son. So we have to really meditate on Krishna, Krishna Consciousness is very, actually Krishna Consciousness is not that easy, sometimes in other organisation the book like Bhagavad Gita, you cannot see it, its somewhere, you need to be above certain degrees above before to see. Sometimes when they see we got Bhagavad Gita they see what is this? In ISKCON, all the doors are widely open, there is no secret apparently. Generally when something seems to be disclosed it is also then it is secret. Then we have to penetrate there the esoterism of Krishna Consciousness. There is external Krishna Consciousness, kirtan everything we are doing and then individually we have to predict because mystic is in Bhakti Yoga and Jnana also is in Bhakti Yoga.
To hear the flute of Krishna you don’t need these ordinary ears, to see Krishna you don’t need these ordinary eyes, you need to reach certain platform, not material platform. So we also we have yoga and other mystic power is there but we don’t display these one. Our business is to draw ourselves to Krishna. There are other yoga they try to exploit the material energy so to conclude we also say that knowledge is not all in all, like a knife. The knife depends on how you use. Yesterday we had a program vyasa puja for Guru Maharaj and everybody was waiting for last part of festival, sharing a cake. How do you share a cake? We share the cake with a knife, we cut the same cake. But when you meet somewhere somebody is there and you remove the knife out and say give me your mobile phone and all the money. Same knife but two purpose. The knowledge also, what do you want to do with this? Hiranyakashipu, he knows everything, he knows the spiritual world. But he cannot go there. He is not qualified to go there. So we are concluding here saying thank you to everyone for listening. I wish I tried to say something as I told you my accent is not very clear. Please forgive me. Any comment or any questions? Thank you.
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