Planet ISKCON

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HH Indradyumna Swami discusses Krishna’s glances, highlighting their enchanting nature. HG Deena Bandhu Prabhu takes us through Peru’s Ollantaytambo and its Inca ruins. HH Bhaktimarga Swami shares insights on overcoming obstacles through Krishna’s guidance. ISKCON events include a Wellbeing Retreat at Bhaktivedanta Manor, Padayatra at Kumbh Mela, and Sati’s story on pride and forgiveness. Food for Life in Hungary continues its outreach, while children visit Krishna-liike ISKCON Helsinki Continue reading "Spiritual insights and ISKCON related news for Jan. 17
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 Ramachandra Kaviraja, the son of Shri Chiranjiva Sena (eternal associate of Lord Chaitanya), appeared in Shri Khanda. “Ramachandara Kaviraja was especially earnest, beautiful, intelligent, energetic, and enthusiastic,” said one biographer.

Although married, Ramachandra and his wife, Ratanala, had no material attachments. They stayed fully engaged in the loving service of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They had no children. With steadfast devotion he served his spiritual master, Shrinivasa Acharya. In Vrindavana, Shri Jiva Goswami gave him the title, kaviraja, “king of poets.”

Ramachandra Kaviraja was one of the eight kavirajas, famous poet disciples of Shrinivasa Acharya. Ramachandra wrote Smarana Darpana, Smarana Chamatkara, Siddhanta Chandrika. He preached widely and initiated many disciples. Narottama Dasa Thakura and Ramachandra lived together as best friends.

Narottama Dasa wrote, doya kore shri acharya prabhu shrinivasa; ramachandra sanga mage Narottama Dasa, “0 Shrinivasa Acharya Prabhu, please give me your mercy. Narottama Dasa always prays for the association of Ramachandra Kaviraja.”

In the form of Karna manjari, he serves Shrimati Radharani in Vraja lila. His samadhi is in Dhira Samira Kunja next to Shrinivasa Acharya. 

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Mukunda Goswami discusses Bhagavatam 3.21.5 on creation, karma, and devotion. ISKCON Navi Mumbai temple was inaugurated by PM Modi, praising ISKCON’s work. Achyutananda and Kalakanta discuss Vaishnava songs. Paraguay’s ISKCON temple hosted India’s ambassador. Sundar Caitanya Swami explores Lord Vishnu’s beauty. Amogha Lila Prabhu wins ZEE Hero Award and plans media collaborations Continue reading "Highlights of ISKCON News for Jan. 16
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View this post on Instagram A post shared by ISKCON News (@iskcon.news) Here is the text transcription: Hare Krishna, this is Anuttama Dasa reporting for ISKCON News. Today is Wednesday the 15th of January. I’m here at the Kharghar ISKCON temple, Radha Madan Mohan Mandir. You can see the beautiful temple behind me. Today, there’s
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Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurating the Sri Sri Radha Madanmohanji Temple. ISKCON Dwarka serves millions at Maha Kumbh Mela 2025 - Times of India. "Star of Eger" - Govinda Restaurant Shines Bright! (Hungary). I attended this temple opening not knowing what to expect! The Journey Behind the Making of Mahavatar Narasimha. ISKCON's presence in Kumbha Mela 2025. Maha Kumbh Mela 2025: Global Media Coverage Devotee. Family Displaced by LA Wildfires. Continue reading "Global ISKCON News for Jan. 15
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The video titled “When Good Fortune Arises” by Svayam Bhagavan Keshava Maharaja features a spiritually enriching discussion emphasizing service, devotion, and spreading love through Krishna Consciousness. Speaking in Cambridge, UK, Maharaja reflects on his experiences and the progress of the movement over the past 20 years. Key points include: The Power of Devotion: Every devotee,
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The video shows Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurating the Sri Sri Radha Madanmohanji Temple, an ISKCON temple located in Kharghar, Navi Mumbai. The temple took 12 years to build, with a cost exceeding ₹170 crore. Constructed under the “Glory of Maharashtra” project, the temple features exquisite architecture made from white and brown marble. Dashaavatar Temple:
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ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) is making a significant impact at the Maha Kumbh Mela 2025 in Prayagraj, India, which runs from January 13 to February 26, 2025. With an expected attendance of around 400 million pilgrims, ISKCON’s initiatives aim to provide both spiritual nourishment and essential services to attendees. Key Initiatives by ISKCON
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Maha Kumbh Mela 2025, one of the largest religious gatherings in the world, commenced on January 13 and will continue until February 26, 2025, in Prayagraj, India. This iteration of the festival is particularly significant, occurring once every 12 years, and is expected to attract around 400 million visitors due to a rare celestial alignment
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Spiritual reflections, festivals, congregational preaching, ISKCON youth programs, inspiring kirtans, and global initiatives. Highlights include a new 3D film on Lord Nrsimhadeva, Travis Scott receiving Srimad Bhagavatam, and the grand inauguration of Navi Mumbai’s Radha Madanmohanji Temple. It bridges tradition and modern outreach. Continue reading "Articles on Dandavats.com (January 14, 2025)
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Prabhuji’s Talk Summary

Prabhuji also highlighted from the seventh chapter that although different kinds of people approach Krishna, and even though Nali (the best devotee) is the most exalted, Krishna appreciates everyone who seeks him.

Then, Prabhuji discussed the difference between devotional service and pure devotional service. Devotional service is when we go to Krishna for our own interests. However, pure devotional service is when we go to Krishna even when we have other options; at this point, Krishna becomes our primary interest.

He also spoke about the three main elements in devotional service: Jiva (the soul), the Lord, and the world. In pure devotional service, Krishna becomes a greater reality than the world. As we grow in devotion, we begin to realize that Krishna is our anchor and the most important person in our lives.

Prabhuji also mentioned that in the beginning, Krishna is the means, and the world is the end. But as we progress, the world becomes the means, and Krishna becomes the ultimate goal. Therefore, everything else in life is seen as a means to serve Krishna.

To summarize the three key aspects of pure devotional service:

1. The relationship with Krishna is not transactional but transformational.
2. Krishna becomes a greater reality than the world.
3. The world becomes the means, and Krishna becomes the end goal.

Next, Prabhuji discussed the difference between “inspired” and “aspired” devotional service, which he would elaborate on further.

He then introduced the six characteristics of pure devotional service. The first two characteristics are related to the effects on the devotee. The second pair refers to the nature of the devotees themselves, and the final one refers to the relationship between the soul and God.

Finally, Prabhuji emphasized that the relationship with Krishna has intrinsic characteristics, which he would further elaborate on in the upcoming discussion.

He concluded by thanking everyone for their attention and encouraged the audience to continue reflecting on these aspects of devotional service.

How Can We Better Manage Our Mind?

To manage our minds effectively, we must first understand the interests of our audience. Once we identify the interests of the audience, we then find the corresponding sections of scripture that address those interests. In other words, the speaker must be aware of both the scripture and the audience to communicate effectively.

Speaking with realization makes the message more relevant, relatable, and applicable. Let’s apply this idea to the six characteristics of devotional service.

In this context, the audience’s interest represents the timely aspect, while the scriptural message itself represents the timeless aspect. Shri Rupa Goswami wrote the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu (Nectar of Devotion), where he outlines the six characteristics of bhakti. However, we must remember that the interests of the audience may vary depending on the circumstances of the time.

For example, Rupa Goswami wrote his book in the 16th century, and it was originally intended for an audience familiar with Vedic wisdom in Vrindavan. The scripture covers many topics—karma, jnana, tantra, yoga, and more—but Rupa Goswami focused on bhakti. He explained these principles with scriptural references, such as how bhakti is auspicious (sukhata) and how it removes distress (klesha).

However, in today’s context, while scriptural references are still important, we also need to understand what these characteristics mean for us personally. If bhakti is supposed to bring auspiciousness and remove distress, we may wonder: does practicing bhakti mean all our distress will disappear? And if it doesn’t, does that mean bhakti isn’t working or that we are not practicing it properly?

The difference here is that, while scriptural references remain important, it is crucial for us to relate these teachings to our own lives and see how these characteristics manifest.

Shri Prabhupada, in his writings, didn’t always provide a plethora of scriptural references. Instead, he focused on what was most relevant and relatable for the audience. This is why in his summaries, Prabhupada would often simplify the message and make it accessible, rather than citing an overwhelming number of references. This approach made the teachings more understandable and persuasive, especially for modern audiences.

For instance, if a speaker addresses a scientific audience and discusses the benefits of meditation for mental and physical health, citing research published in well-known journals like Science or Nature would be persuasive. Similarly, when discussing devotional service, it’s essential to relate the concepts to the audience’s personal experience.

Now, let’s focus on the first two characteristics of devotional service: it removes distress and brings auspiciousness. These two qualities are often described in Sanskrit as something that “announces” or “heralds” auspiciousness. Bhakti is not a digital, one-or-zero experience. It’s not an all-or-nothing scenario. Devotional service is more like a relationship that gradually develops over time. It’s like an analog scale—our relationship with Krishna deepens incrementally.

When we talk about pure devotional service, it’s not just an unattainable ideal. There’s a spectrum, and people can be on various stages of this spectrum. Some may practice devotional service more purely, while others may practice it less so. It’s not a rigid distinction; it’s more about the depth of the relationship.

Think of devotional service like a medical treatment. When someone undergoes treatment, they experience two things: the pain decreases, and the health improves. Initially, the pain might decrease without significantly improving health, especially if only symptomatic treatment is given. But if the treatment is thorough and effective, the underlying problem is healed, and health improves over time.

In devotional service, we may not experience immediate relief from all distress, but as we practice bhakti more consistently and deeply, the benefits will start to manifest. These benefits will not necessarily be immediate or fully realized at once, but with sustained practice, we will see gradual improvement.

Similarly, as someone receives treatment for an illness, they may begin by feeling better and experiencing less pain, but full recovery takes time. The same applies to devotional service: gradual growth and progress lead to greater auspiciousness in life, even if the journey starts slowly.

So, devotional service can manifest partially even for those who are still on the path, and the benefits gradually increase as one moves toward more sincere and pure devotion. This understanding helps us appreciate the incremental progress in our devotional practice, rather than expecting an immediate or complete transformation.

In summary, devotional service is not just about reaching an ideal state of purity instantly. It’s a continuous journey where distress is gradually alleviated, and auspiciousness is cultivated over time.

After that, I asked the doctor about the diagnosis. The technician got the report, and I carried it with me. I noticed that there was no clear diagnosis, and they mentioned it wasn’t important. However, I saw that the report had PUO written on it. At that time, I had no idea what PUO meant, so I asked the doctor, “What is this PUO?” He explained that it stands for “Pyrexia of Unknown Origin.” “Pyrexia” means fever, and when the cause of the fever is unknown, it is classified as PUO.

It’s somewhat embarrassing for doctors to admit that they don’t have a diagnosis, so they use the term PUO. In this case, the patient is undiagnosed, and without a diagnosis, they can’t be treated. On the other hand, another patient who is diagnosed can begin treatment.

Though both patients may experience pain in the present, their futures will be very different. The undiagnosed patient’s condition may worsen over time, while the diagnosed patient’s condition will improve with treatment.

Similarly, when we start practicing Bhakti, we may still be in the material world, facing challenges like anyone else. If the temperature rises, or if there is economic or political instability, we too feel the heat and stress. But by practicing Bhakti, we begin the process of diagnosis and treatment for our deeper suffering.

Just as medical treatment gradually reduces pain and improves health, Bhakti practice leads to a gradual decrease in distress (Klesh-agni) and an increase in spiritual well-being (Sukhad-agni). So, practicing Bhakti doesn’t immediately eliminate all the pain, but it starts the process of healing.

Now, with this understanding, we can see Bhakti as a medicine for material existence. By practicing Bhakti, we experience a gradual decrease in distress and an increase in spiritual auspiciousness, much like a patient being treated with the right medication.

In conclusion, Bhakti provides us with the tools to deal with suffering. Although practicing Bhakti doesn’t eliminate all the worldly difficulties we face, it offers a diagnosis for the root causes of our distress and provides a treatment path to spiritual healing.

It’s almost ironic or strange that the message, “this world is a place of distress,” actually decreases Arjuna’s distress. Arjuna is in distress, and when Krishna speaks, his words help alleviate that distress. So, Krishna’s purpose is not to emphasize that the world is filled with suffering, but rather to guide Arjuna out of that distress.

Jeeva Goswami, in the Sandarbhas, explains that to understand the core message of a book, we should examine what is said at the beginning and the end. For example, if a speaker is organized, they might introduce the topic at the beginning and summarize it at the end. By listening to the start and the conclusion, we can grasp the essence of the message. In the same way, if we look at what Krishna speaks at the beginning and the end of the Bhagavad Gita, we can understand its core purpose.

The first instructive word Krishna speaks is in 2.11: “A-shocchan.” This means “not worth lamenting,” or “do not lament.” The last instructive word Krishna speaks is in 18.66: “Maa shujahav,” meaning “do not fear, do not lament.” Essentially, the purpose of the Gita is to free people from distress, and it begins with the message that suffering is not worth lamenting and ends with the assurance to not fear or be distressed. The Gita’s message is not pessimistic; rather, it is positive and affirmative—it is meant to uplift us from distress, not keep us in it.

Now, let’s look at the context of the Gita to understand why it is not a message of pessimism. The Gita begins with distress but ends with guidance that leads to liberation from that distress. It is giving hope and a path to overcome suffering, not merely describing the world as a place of suffering.

When we talk about distress, there are some forms of distress that are avoidable and some that are unavoidable. For example, in 2014, I visited Washington, D.C., for the first time. It was winter, and I went out for chanting early in the morning. I thought it was 11°C, but it turned out to be -11°C. I couldn’t even move my fingers, and my lips turned purple. I rushed back, put on warmer clothes, and went out again. The cold weather caused distress, but it was unavoidable given the freezing temperature. However, there are ways to mitigate such distress, like wearing warm clothes. Even then, some discomfort may remain, but we can reduce its impact.

Distress can be categorized as either avoidable or unavoidable. The unavoidable distress is like the cold weather, where external conditions affect us. However, there are ways to manage it, just as we can mitigate physical distress with warm clothes. Similarly, there are mental and spiritual strategies to manage distress in life.

When Krishna speaks about this world being “Dukkhalayam” (a place of distress), it doesn’t mean we should resign ourselves to a life of suffering. Krishna’s message is to acknowledge the reality of distress but also to show that it doesn’t need to be overwhelming or all-consuming. He encourages us to rise above it through spiritual practice.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna’s lamentation in the beginning is not about his own death; he is not afraid of dying. Rather, his fear stems from a moral dilemma—he does not want to harm his loved ones or act against dharma. This fear of causing harm is what leads to his distress, not a fear of his own death.

So, when Krishna tells Arjuna that the world is a place of distress, it’s not a call to accept distress passively. It’s a reality check that, despite the inherent challenges of life, there is a way to transcend that distress through understanding and spiritual practice.

Arjuna is unsure whether winning the kingdom is worth killing his relatives, worth shooting his teachers like Dronacharya and Bhishma. His fear is not about his own death, but about the moral dilemma of whether this is the right thing to do. Sometimes, the level of fear a person experiences reflects their level of consciousness.

I recently had a conversation with someone who was seriously ill, a well-respected preacher. Despite his own grave condition, which had low chances of recovery, his main concern wasn’t for his health but for the future of others. He said, “Many people are supporting me financially for my treatment, but what about devotees who are not as well-known as me? If they fall ill, who will offer them support? We need to create a system to help them.”

It struck me that, even in such a challenging time, his concern was not for himself, but for the well-being of others. This shows how a person’s fear or concern can reflect their consciousness. For example, if a company is facing bankruptcy, the owners may worry about how they will pay for their mansions or deal with their personal debts. But in other cases, a company might worry about its employees, clients, and business partners. In the second situation, the fear is more selfless than the first, where the concern is centered around personal loss.

Arjuna’s fear is also selfless. He fears that by doing the wrong thing, even if he gains the kingdom, it could lead to the destruction of future generations of his dynasty. This moral hesitation causes Arjuna’s anxiety and indecision.

Now, when Arjuna surrenders to Krishna, does his distress magically disappear? No, Arjuna still has to fight. His inner conflict doesn’t just vanish after he surrenders. Krishna doesn’t solve the problem by revealing some past life scenario, like explaining that Bhishma and Arjuna had interactions in past lives. Krishna doesn’t teach that way. Instead, Krishna focuses on the present situation and guides Arjuna on what he should do right now. He doesn’t promise a mystical solution but teaches how to deal with the challenge in front of him.

Arjuna practices bhakti and surrenders to Krishna, saying, “I will do what you say.” But Krishna doesn’t remove all the external troubles. Some things, like the threat from Duryodhana, are unavoidable. Duryodhana is not going to stop fighting, so Arjuna must face the challenges ahead.

In life, we often face unavoidable troubles. For example, if someone is seriously sick, even with the best doctors and treatments, it doesn’t mean the disease will magically disappear. The person will still experience some pain and suffering, though the treatment may alleviate some of it. Similarly, Krishna’s teachings in the Bhagavad Gita focus on how to navigate these unavoidable challenges, helping us to manage distress with wisdom, devotion, and perseverance.

So, basically, there is both avoidable and unavoidable suffering. What is avoidable, we should avoid. It’s not that if it’s cold and the world is Dukkha Leham (a place of suffering), we deliberately go into the cold without wearing warm clothes. That is not necessary. What is avoidable should be avoided.

For example, the Shastras say that if we indulge in our senses too much, like drinking excessively, and then become sick, is that because the world is Dukkha Leham? No, it is because we are engaging in activities that are bringing suffering upon ourselves. So, avoidable suffering should be avoided, and that requires conscious effort.

At the same time, there is unavoidable suffering, and that should be accepted. Accepting means it has to be tolerated and eventually transcended. How to tolerate and transcend it will be discussed in the evening session.

For example, if someone has a disease and is in pain, they may take pain medication, which alleviates the pain. Is this a good thing? Yes, because it helps reduce the suffering. However, if they only take the pain medication and do not address the root cause of the illness, they might not improve. They are only masking the problem, and in the long run, it could worsen.

So, some amount of pain is unavoidable, and we need to accept it. There is some distress that is unavoidable, and it is often linked to karma, which we will talk more about in the evening session. As Krishna said this morning, Gokhar, when we try to avoid unavoidable suffering, we might end up creating even more suffering in the process.

This principle is not just about diseases. The same idea applies in other areas of life. Avoiding unavoidable suffering might lead to even greater distress. However, the point we are making here is that when we start practicing bhakti, it’s not a magic switch that makes all distress disappear. We will still experience challenges, but bhakti offers something significant.

There is some unavoidable suffering that is actually required for growth. Growth means, for example, a student who just wants to play, but the mother encourages them to study. The child starts learning to speak, write, and recognize words. This is not easy, but once they learn, the whole world opens up to them. If they don’t learn, they will miss out on that entire world for the rest of their life. So, some suffering is necessary for progress.

Now, I will make two more points before we conclude the class. First, there is perceivable suffering and suffering at a more fundamental, non-perceivable level. For example, you might feel swelling in your gums, but the root cause could be something deeper, like cancer. Similarly, many of our problems, like not having enough money, job insecurity, or conflicts at home, are perceivable problems. These problems are real, and we cannot ignore them.

But these perceivable problems are just symptoms of a more fundamental issue: the soul’s misidentification with the material world. The soul’s attachment to the material world leads to more fundamental problems like birth, old age, disease, and death (Janmabandhu Jarayana). These are the core problems we face in life.

When we practice bhakti, it does not immediately solve the problems of Janmabandhu Jarayana. If there is a disease, there will still be suffering. However, two important things happen when we practice bhakti: First, the world becomes smaller, and Krishna becomes bigger in our life. When Krishna is bigger and the world becomes smaller, we start to see the world differently.

For most people, when the world is big and Krishna is small, the world is filled with dualities—ups and downs. Sometimes people honor us, sometimes they dishonor us; sometimes it’s hot, sometimes it’s cold. To the extent we are attached to the material world, these dualities affect us more. But as we progress spiritually, we learn to transcend these dualities and realize that Krishna’s presence is what matters most.

So, consider someone who is very attached to something. For example, I met someone from Sri Lanka in Canada. He came to teach me opera classes, and I initially thought he was Indian, but he told me he was from Sri Lanka. He shared that he had been introduced to cricket around 9–10 years ago, sometime between 2010 and 2015–16. During this period, Sri Lanka made it to the finals of about 3 or 4 World Cup tournaments but lost each time, including matches against India and other countries. He said, “I was a very avid cricket fan. I had two friends, both of whom were also great fans. The third time Sri Lanka lost, we were all completely depressed. Then, my friend committed suicide because of that.”

I was completely shocked. It’s hard to fathom. None of the players committed suicide, even though they took the game seriously. But for them, it’s still just a game. What happens in this world is that when we become too attached to something, the dualities—wins and losses, highs and lows—become much bigger.

This is what happens when we work in an office. One day, we feel like we love the job because the boss gives us positive feedback. The next day, the boss gives us some constructive criticism, and we might think, “Why did I even take this job? I hate it!” So, we tend to go up and down. This can even happen in relationships. These days, relationships are largely based on emotions. One day, someone might say, “You’re so wonderful, I love you, I can’t live without you,” and the next day, they might say, “How could you do that? You’re such a terrible person, I hate you, I can’t live with you.”

So, when we experience these dualities, they are real. But our overreaction to them can make life’s problems far bigger than they need to be. Yes, if your favorite team loses, it’s disappointing. If your boss gives you negative feedback, or a family member is not there when you need them, it’s a problem. But it’s our reaction to these dualities that amplifies the problems.

This is how we become materially unstable. It leads to avoidable distress. As I mentioned earlier, there is both avoidable and unavoidable distress. So, we go to work, the boss gives us some negative feedback, and that’s painful. But if we get upset and shout at the boss, and the boss fires us, then that leads to a much bigger problem. Many times, we make our problems worse because of our reactions.

When we are materially unstable, it’s mainly because our mind is unstable. We overthink dualities and make them seem too serious. But when we become spiritually connected, the world becomes smaller, and the impact of dualities also lessens. We start becoming more stable in facing them.

The practice of bhakti helps us become mentally more peaceful. It’s not that the dualities will go away, but our ability to face them with steadiness improves. When the world becomes smaller, we become more stable. If someone speaks rudely to us, it’s never pleasant, but it no longer has the same emotional power over us. It’s not such a big deal anymore.

Much of the distress in our lives comes from our overreactions to situations. These overreactions increase the instability we experience. Now, for many people, the idea of steadiness amidst dualities sounds very appealing. We want to remain composed and peaceful. But it can also seem very difficult because we are conditioned to seek happiness in material things.

For example, we think, “If India wins, I’ll be extremely happy,” or “If India loses, I’ll be very peaceful and detached.” But that’s not how it works. If we invest our emotions in something, the more we delight in its positive side, the more we’ll suffer when the negative side comes up. For instance, if we become very happy when someone praises us, we’ll find it hard to stay steady when that same person criticizes us.

Dualities are like a coin: one side is pleasure (honor, success) and the other side is pain (dishonor, failure). We can’t enjoy one side and stay steady when the other side appears. This is why many people find it difficult to be steady amidst dualities. If we become detached or steady, it seems like life will lose its emotional highs, and that doesn’t seem appealing to many.

However, as we deepen our connection with Krishna, Krishna becomes the source of our spiritual happiness. So, even though the material world’s dualities don’t disappear, our source of happiness shifts. The steadiness that comes from bhakti is not about detaching from everything, but about finding stability in our relationship with Krishna.

And this experience of spiritual happiness is shubhada. As we start practicing bhakti, our connection with Krishna grows stronger. For example, if we are doing sadhana properly, the first time we attend a kirtan, it may feel nice—just a nice ritual, and we may feel good doing it. But as we continue practicing bhakti, we attend the kirtan again, and what we experience becomes much deeper, much richer.

Similarly, many of us are born into pious families, and we may have celebrated Janmashtami in the past, perhaps just as a tradition. But when we practice bhakti, and then come to the Janmashtami festival, we hear about Krishna, chant His name, and take darshan of Krishna, the joy is much deeper. A new dimension of happiness opens for us.

Shubhada means that a whole new universe, a whole dimension of happiness that was previously inaccessible, starts becoming available to us. In this sense, bhakti helps us move toward a higher happiness and away from the distress of the material world. This is how the two characteristics—klesha agni (the fire that burns suffering) and moksha shada (the path to liberation)—become manifest.

Now, regarding the sufferings in our life, how do our present and past karma relate to them? How does karma work, and how does it relate to bhakti? I will discuss that in today’s conversation. Let me summarize what I have discussed so far.

Today, I covered four main points. We are talking about the first two characteristics of pure emotional service. The first thing I mentioned is that when we talk about pure emotional service, it’s a spectrum, not binary logic. It’s not like a 0 or 1 situation. It’s like considering health and sickness. There are extremes, but it is a range of shades in between. So when we talk about bhakti, it doesn’t mean that until we reach pure emotional service, we won’t experience any of the aspects of bhakti. We experience them in our present state, but they become more pronounced as we practice.

Why am I explaining these characteristics? Because I mentioned that in scriptures, there are timeless aspects and timely aspects. When we talk about pure emotional service, realization means explaining things in a way that suits the audience’s context. In the 16th century, scripture references were given by figures like Rupa Goswami to explain these characteristics. But today, to understand these characteristics, we will focus on practical experiences or practical analysis.

Then, I discussed the idea that when suffering goes away and auspiciousness comes, what does this mean? We talked about the Gokhale layer and how the Gita is not pessimistic. It actually relieves Arjuna’s distress and reassures him not to grieve.

Regarding suffering, we discussed two categories: avoidable and unavoidable. When we start practicing the Gita, we first learn to avoid the avoidable suffering, and eventually, the unavoidable suffering becomes something we learn to tolerate and transcend. We’ll explore how we do that later.

Next, we discussed the concept of perceivable and non-perceivable causes of suffering. For example, someone may have symptoms of a disease, but the actual cause of the disease may not be immediately perceivable. Similarly, in bhakti, we may be experiencing suffering or challenges, but by practicing bhakti, we are being diagnosed and treated, and the root cause starts to get addressed.

For us, when we practice bhakti, we become materially peaceful—this is klesha agni—and we also experience spiritual joy, which is shubhada. So, the practice of bhakti brings us a brighter future, both in terms of overcoming material distress and experiencing spiritual bliss.

Now, the specific problems we face and to what extent bhakti addresses them will be discussed in the next session. Are there any questions or comments?

Sure. Arjuna, can we say that the problem you are seeing is from a humanitarian perspective? Like the questions he was putting to Krishna, it seems to be growing in that way. So, can we see it that way?

Yes, definitely. Having said that, it’s not that the human side of our existence is to be rejected. See, spirituality is not meant to extinguish our humanity. It’s meant to expand our identity beyond our humanity. We are still human beings, but we are also more than human beings.

That’s why, later on, when Arjuna is about to give up, Krishna chastises him. The Bhagavad Gita does not ignore the human experience; it provides a higher perspective. Our spirituality doesn’t negate the human experience—it just adds a greater dimension to it.

Krishna doesn’t rigidly separate the two. At the end of the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says, “Yatra Yogeshwara Krishna,” where the human and divine come together, there will be no defeat. Now, of course, in the material world, everything is temporary. The Pandavas’ kingdom was temporary, but during their rule, they arranged things in such a way that the eternal truths could be pursued.

My point is that improving things at the material level is not wrong. The problem arises when we focus only on material improvement without considering the spiritual aspect. This is like taking pain medication without addressing the root cause of the illness. Material improvement is not a bad thing, but it shouldn’t come at the cost of neglecting spirituality.

In the Bhagavad Gita, specifically in the 4th Canto, there is a story of Maharaj Prithu. His kingdom faces a famine, and there is a shortage of food and water, especially food. The citizens of his kingdom look to him for a solution. I’m not saying we shouldn’t change our perspective or look for material solutions, but we must also remember to maintain the spiritual perspective.

Let me elaborate on this diagram. There is material improvement and spiritual improvement. If only material improvement exists and there is no spiritual progress, that’s not ideal. If there is spiritual improvement without material improvement, that’s good, but it can still be difficult. The best scenario is when both spiritual and material improvement occur together. For example, in the reign of Ram Rajya, it wasn’t just spiritually auspicious—it was also materially prosperous.

So, it’s not that material improvement should be condemned. The problem with much of modern technological advancement is that it often comes at the expense of spiritual well-being. It may reject the idea of God or spirituality, and focus only on technological or economic development, which can create smaller but significant problems in the long run.

So, this is not a method. We will talk more about this in the next session. Hare Krishna, Ramji, very nicely explained. I have one doubt. When you talk about avoidable suffering and unavoidable suffering, you said the unavoidable sufferings must be tolerated and gradually transcended. So, how can we practically identify the unavoidable suffering for people with multilayered experiences? Let’s discuss the understanding of karma.

Thank you. My question is, you said the “wicked white and black” is a sense of fear, which we attach to material life. You partly answered this earlier. But what if someone feels they are caught in attachment to material growth and development, and they feel their growth is not on the spiritual side because they are so attached to material life and can’t avoid it? How do we overcome this situation?

See, the growth from mental attachment to spiritual attachment will take time. Everyone has different attachments, and the strength of those attachments varies from person to person. So, we all will grow at our own pace. We shouldn’t worry too much if some attachments don’t go away immediately. Just keep practicing bhakti.

Think of it like this: If two people have the same disease and both are taking the treatment, can we assume they will both be cured at the same pace? No. We need to consider the duration of the disease, the overall immunity, and their health levels. So, as long as we keep practicing bhakti, we are on the path to recovery and health.

Just keep practicing bhakti. This is the work of Krishna’s mercy, and Krishna will guide us. Focus on fixing your mind on Krishna. Rather than focusing on material attachment and trying to force detachment, we can focus on staying connected with Krishna. As we become more connected with Krishna, individual attachments will gradually fade.

For example, if I have this glass, and I try to empty it—not just of water, but also of air—I will find it very difficult to create a vacuum. Emptying our consciousness of all attachment is like this. It’s very difficult. But instead of trying to forcefully empty the glass, if I focus on filling it with water, the air will automatically be pushed out.

Similarly, if we focus on cultivating a connection with Krishna, by doing more sadhana, meditating on Krishna, or becoming more aware of Krishna, our spiritual attachment will grow, and material attachment will naturally diminish.

The metaphor of the world becoming smaller and Krishna becoming bigger is helpful. It’s very hard for us to artificially make the world smaller. But if we focus on remembering Krishna, then Krishna will grow bigger in our lives, and the world will naturally seem smaller.

So, yes, we depend on mercy, but we also have to do our part as much as we can.

Prabhu, when you talked about the spiritual world, I had a doubt. If there is no birth in the spiritual world, how would we react to that?

Ah, that’s a very profound question. In the spiritual world, there is no birth, but it’s like an eternal Leela (divine play). Leela can be understood like a drama. Sometimes we associate drama with something false, but this Leela is the supreme reality.

In a drama, there are many characters, but not all characters are on stage at the same time. In some parts of the drama, some characters appear, while in other parts, different characters take the stage. Similarly, we are currently not in the spiritual world. It’s like the drama is going on, but our part in the drama has not yet been enacted.

So, it’s not that when someone enters the drama stage, they necessarily have to be born and grow up. Sometimes, as part of the drama, we may show that a character is born and grows up. But in other cases, there might be a king and queen, and they have a commander. The commander, whenever needed, is simply called upon, and the character doesn’t need to be born, grow up, and become a commander.

Similarly, we all have roles in the spiritual world. Our roles are presently inactive. But when we become purified and go to the spiritual world, our roles will become activated again. Thank you for the good question.

Thank you very much. So, by the practice of bhakti, we become mentally purified. Some examples you mentioned, are they compared to mental hallucination? Like sometimes people are in various realities and physically suffering, but by practicing pure devotional service, will they experience peace—both mental and physical? What does this mean?

That’s a good question, and a good example to bring up. Let me explain. There is physical reality and spiritual reality. Now, we could also mention virtual reality. Whether it’s real or not is not the main concern, but let’s try to understand this concept.

In general, physical reality can sometimes be very painful or distressing. But most of the time, it’s just boring. For example, if someone’s goal in life is to enjoy their senses, how long can they do that in a day? They eat food for maybe an hour, or enjoy sexual pleasure for a few minutes, but the rest of the time, life can feel dull and uninteresting.

At this point, people often look for something else. This is when they start daydreaming or entering into mental constructs. Entertainment and intoxication are ways people try to escape reality. Some people become disconnected from the physical world altogether and lose themselves in their minds, which leads to mental escapism.

This is similar to what happens in spirituality: as someone becomes more connected to spiritual reality, they may seem disconnected from the material world. However, the key difference is that spiritual reality is real, unlike the imagined world of daydreams, movies, or fantasy.

For example, someone who loves Harry Potter might immerse themselves in that fictional world. But we all know that Hogwarts is not a real place. It exists in the mind of the reader and in the books, but it doesn’t exist outside of that.

On the other hand, in spiritual practices, the spiritual world is not an imaginary place. It is a real, tangible reality that is described by saints and philosophers. These great souls don’t just tell stories; they also explain the nature of this world and the spiritual world, offering practical guidance on how to reach it.

How do we know that the spiritual reality is real? We know because of the teachings from those who have experienced it—great saints, sages, and philosophers—who have provided not just entertaining stories, but deep philosophical insights that explain the nature of the universe and how we can transcend it.

And then we can look at their lives. Many of the saints are not just impractical; they are also very compassionate in this world. Would the world necessarily be a better place with Harry Potter fans? Well, maybe, maybe not. They might just get lost in their own world. But if more people were devoted, kind, compassionate, and helpful, even this world would become a better place.

We can evaluate the teachers in terms of their examples, the teachings in terms of logic, wisdom, and depth of philosophy, and we can look at the transformation that happens in our own lives.

So, based on these three—teachers, teachings, and transformation—we can gradually develop an understanding and conviction that Krishna consciousness is not just a form of entertainment. Those who experience Krishna and have a higher awareness of Krishna are actually experiencing a higher reality. And often, experiencing that higher reality enables them to deal with this material reality better.

In that sense, it is indeed a higher reality.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. We are so grateful to Guruji for so wonderfully giving all of us a deeper understanding of the dynamics between Klesha and Sattva. This understanding helps us realize why, even after coming to Krishna consciousness, we continue to suffer. And that is because, as Prabhu says, we are all still in the “middle of the muddle.”

We also understood that the degree of our attachment is proportional to the degree of suffering we experience. So, we all want to make the world smaller and Krishna bigger, and we seek your blessings to apply all these deeper understandings when situations arise. Of course, they arise all the time.

We look forward to Prabhu’s continuation of this beautiful presentation on the six characteristics of devotional service, which will take place this evening at 6:30 at the Sting Hall, as mentioned at the beginning. The session starts at 6:30, so please try to be on time. Encourage everyone who wants to attend to be punctual.

Hare Krishna….

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So That’s the idea. I’ll repeat this in another way. You can see that if this is a person so most of the time, our consciousness is centered on ourselves. So this is self centered consciousness. So most people nowadays have followed So if we care for Krishna, then actually we connect with others at a deeper level.

So when our consciousness doesn’t just arise, So So He’s happy. He’s happy that they’re down to him. In fact, he says that because this was 718 and explained the person in the second. It’s placing. Her love for him, not his love for her.

That she wants to be with him. That’s why she’s accepting his purpose. Later on, even if this boy’s situation improves, he has other options, And that time, he still stays with that girl. That will show his love further. Yeah.

So similarly, when we come to Krishna, many times he do, Pranjali say, you But, in But later on, when other things start seem to work for us, that, okay, our maybe our health is not already recovered, our health we lost our wealth, our relationships are not working, job is an issue. Those problems get solved. So, in that sense and now, I’m talking about the difference between say devotional service and pure emotional service. So, devotional service means that we come to Krishna, but we may come to Krishna for our interests. And, if those interests are fulfilled fine, then we may not there are 3 broad factors in existence.

There are b, the soul, then there is the world, and then there is Krishna. So for us in the we could say when we are largely materialistic we will practicing bhakti, but we are materialistic at that time the world is very big for us and Krishna is small. That means, oh I want fame, I want wealth, I want power. That’s what is more important and if God can help me to get that, that’s what that’s good and good for us. So, God is not very important for us.

But, when we become devoted to Krishna, then the dynamic change. The world becomes small and Krishna becomes big for us. So this is the stage of where you’re going towards your habitual service. This that Krishna becomes the bigger reality. We see this in the songs of the Vaishnavacharya’s where they so they say that some where there’s prosperity or adversity.

So that is the level of realization where we can practice pure root resistance. Now what does it mean when you say Krishna becomes the bigger reality? It is it it does our priority. How important do we consider Krishna? Krishna is always the biggest reality, and Krishna even showed Duryodhan.

His wish group how he is the biggest reality. And what happened to the then? Nothing. It’s amazing how the mind can come up with the reasons to continue to believe what we want to do. So when later on, Buddha was reminded Krishna is God.

Krishna showed the Vishwa. Did you see that? I did not have so much responsibility as a prince while growing up, I could also have done the first human, I could have shown a mom bigger than Krishna’s. So, he did even after seeing that form Krishna did not become the bigger reality. So, it is in terms of our triadicalization.

So, we want Krishna to become the bigger reality for us. And, it’s not just that, there’s one more difference. It is that initially for us, Krishna is the means and the world is the ends. That means, I worship Krishna so that I can get good marks in the exam, so that I can, get a better a better good life partner, so that I help them all those things. Now, again this is not a bad thing.

It is good that we are worshiping Krishna for whatever it is, but it is not the best. If a devotee has some ability the devotee will try to find how can I use this ability to serve Krishna? So, in this way the dynamic changes. So, when we are talking about pure devotional service, what does it mean? It means from what we discussed?

Three things that pure devotional service means our relationship with Krishna is it is not transactional, it is transformational. And, the third is that Krishna becomes the ends for us. And, the world is not just a means, but it is a means, okay, whatever we get from the world that is okay. So, Sudhama, even when we had had very little, he brought some just broken rights to what to offer the Lord. So, whatever means he to offer the Lord.

So whatever means he had, he said, let me make some offer to him. So this is the idea of pure emotional service. Now, why should we actually at all practice pure consciousness? So, when we talk about any relationship, so, did you not talk about what does this relationship mean? Now we may we all may have different reasons.

Say, if you want to build a relationship with someone, you want to build a good relationship with our boss. Is it okay then your boss, my job will be secured, maybe I need promoted. So when we say that we’re talking about pure devotion service. So understanding the glory of pure devotion service can inspire us to practice pure truths. So when we start about pure devotion service, there are two ways of understanding this that are other characteristics.

What does it mean that these are these are what can inspire us? These can inspire us to practice pure devotion service. But secondly it can it be aspire toward those things. That means if your motion service means that, oh, this actually attracts Krishna also. Therefore, I aspire to come to the level of unity by which Krishna becomes a character.

It’s almost like inspiration is something that comes to us. Aspiration is something that we cultivate. Like, I aspire for something. I am inspired by something. So, there is a slight difference between them, but it is not a major difference.

So, at this point are there any questions? Because I would like to clarify the concept of pure emotion surface before we go into its characteristics. Are there any questions at this point? Okay. I just like to know how many questions are there.

Then I decide how many moments. 1, 2. Okay. Okay. So I’ll just introduce the practice of your database.

We’ll take 1 or 2, and then we’ll have a system. So should we go to 10:30 or 10:5? So I was I’ll talk about the details more details more. So now the characteristics of your emotions are less are often described. If we have like a flower, they are described in terms of sets of patterns.

So these coming sets of 2 to each. So the first two, does anyone remember this? Do you know the 6 characteristics? Yeah. So claysh vin.

Claysh vin means remover removes stress, Then Shubhada. Shubhada is it brings auspiciousness. So, I will explain why these come in this kind of sets, they are considered like a couplet. So, it removes the stress, it brings auspiciousness in other. This is more in terms of this this set is it it it is more in terms of effect on us.

How it affects us? So, that that is it will remove stress from our life, it will bring auspiciousness. Now, there is slight difference between auspiciousness and happiness we will talk about the difference it is similar but not exactly the same. Then what are the next two characteristics? So means it makes liberation seem insignificant.

Generally, in the for those who are who know something about spirituality for them moksha is considered to be life’s highest goal. So bad, a t especially pure total service is so glorious So it makes it itself small. So here, it is more in terms of the this is the, it is more like the nature of bhakt itself. 1 is its effect on us but these 2 is more of that a is such that it makes something else which is glorious seem not so glorious. So, that is motion is 2 and what are they last 2?

Akashree. So I’ll explain this. These are concentrated bliss. So, we’ll focus more on these last two characteristics. We’ll talk briefly, but we’ll focus primarily on the first two characteristics because those are what are related with us.

So these 6 characteristics, it’s it’s the way this is described, it’s very interesting description that it’s like, it’s not just the characteristic of Krishna, it’s not the characteristic of the soul, it is the characteristic of the relationship itself. Normally, we don’t think of a relationship as something different from the people in the relationship. It’s like, you say I have a good relationship with that person. If you think I have a good relationship with him, that means you are in a good illusion. So the idea is we think we don’t think of relationship itself having any characteristics.

It’s like when I say I have a good relationship, what it means is that that person’s disposition towards me is good, my disposition toward that person is good. We don’t think of relationship itself generally speaking as having some characteristics to itself. We think of the people in the relationship and what kind of disposition they have. So if there are 2 people in any kind of relationship, so then what does it mean to say the characteristics of the relationship itself? So, here the idea is that it certainly depends on the cookie cutter in any relationship, Now, there are many different relationship in the world, but one characteristic of the parent child relationship is that it brings a sense of responsibility.

You can say responsibility in every relationship, but in the So for example, there is in the western world, nowadays, there is a lot of, intermixing among the genders. Every culture has had some gender boundaries, but what exactly the gender boundaries will be that g has changed with the passing of culture. So, now, often people ask this question, can a man and a woman be friends? So, what is the difference between say a friendly relationship and a romantic relationship? Now, there is in the male female dynamic, there is something intrinsic to the relationship.

Now, we can say yes, a man and woman can be friends. They don’t have to be friends. In that, in friendship it is more like the 2 people share an interest. It is like generally the vision of friendship is 2 people are together looking at something whereas, in a romance they are each other’s interest. So, like, the romance means 2 people are looking at each other.

So, what happened now in friendship it doesn’t mean that we are not interested in other person, but generally friendship okay, you know, we like sports, we are interested in politics, we would like to lose this service. So we have some shared interests and from that, we also become interested in, but the primary thing is in friendship is that there’s something to talk about, something some shared interest. So, but whereas, so that’s why a romantic relationship friendly relationship differences and we can have many friends, but a romantic relationship becomes more exclusive. The idea is that again, what my what I’m talking about over here is that relationships themselves have certain intrinsic characteristics. So, so similarly, the relationship with Krishna also has certain intrinsic characteristics and those characteristics, the more we understand and appreciate them, the more we can become inspired and transformed with it.

So, now what those characteristics are and how we can better understand them that I will discuss in tomorrow’s session. We will be having this 4 part series tomorrow morning and then Monday Tuesday evenings. So is that Sunday, Monday evening? Yeah. Sorry.

Morning. Sunday, Monday morning. So tomorrow all for morning to you? Tomorrow morning. Today, I’m talking in a topic of the characteristics of your mobile service.

I I talked about first what is pure mobile service, the concept of your mobile service. So first, we discussed about how that the relationship itself, it can be the transaction of transformation. So we discussed how for most people, say, the relationship initially might be self centered. And from being self centered, it grows towards we start caring for someone else. That’s like the more like a horizontal expansion of consciousness.

But as we grow, we don’t just care for others. We also start caring for Krishna. And then, when that happens, it like a holistic expansion of consciousness. So, it is horizontal and vertical both. So, this is where we start connecting with Krishna.

So, we talked about the sequence from 12.8 to 12.11, the arcs we discuss what is this arcs? Do you remember this? Aspenish did not aspenish what is it? Absorbs. Absorbs Shiva that the highest level is absorbed Krishna Otherwise, we try to remember Krishna.

So recollection and repetition of the recollection. And otherwise at least cultivate some selflessness that means, at some level something for something beyond our we do something for someone beyond ourselves. See nowadays there is lot of environment like there is a is there or there is concern for social justice people want to be a part of something bigger. So, this is a sequence from 12.8 to 11 krishna dot sum. So we talked about the characteristic of how relationship with such a dynamic.

And then we talked about the Krishna soul relationship. We we talked about metaphors over there. How that the parent child relationship, now Krishna, he’s happy that we come to him for any reason. He’s in 718, he says that he causes Uddhara and that shows Krishna’s love for us. That what whatever reason we come to him, he is happy.

But then the, say, the boy girl relationship or the young that relationship metaphor, that shows that do we want to be with Krishna even when things are working for us? That shows our love for Krishna. So we discussed how initially the world is big and Krishna is small, but eventually for us, the world becomes big and Krishna becomes the world becomes small and Krishna becomes big. And, and through this, we discussed how not just that Krishna becomes initially is the means, but eventually, it becomes the enemies for us. And then lastly, we discussed the idea of the characteristic of relationship itself.

It’s not just character to Not just character to the relationship, but just like a parenting relationship brings responsibility. So a romantic relationship brings a certain level of exclusivity. A friendly relationship has some kind of shared interests. So like that relationship itself can have characteristics, and the 6 characteristics that are intrinsic to the relationship with Krishna itself, we will be discussing over the next sessions. Thank you very much.

He doesn’t need us, but he wants us. You know, we need Krishna, but we don’t want Krishna. That is the situation. See, need means that actually, that person can’t survive. It’s not like that, but They don’t need anyone over there because they have enough food for themselves, but they want to share that food.

So that is Krishna is so complete in himself that he wants to actually share with us. Is when it doesn’t work. But actually, Krishna gives and forgives. We get and forget it. And specifically, in this country, we are trying to practice Krishna consciousness by spreading the message of Krishna.

But somehow the other, he gets stuck into the infinite position where we try to incline towards Krishna, Yes. It was to her life. So the question is that sometimes when we want to connect with Krishna, but when things become very difficult in our situation in life, then then the just her cloth seem to be mystically expanded. And how it happened nobody could understand that. So when she didn’t see Krishna, because her eyes are closed, she called out to Krishna all those emotions will also come.

But there’s a difference between it’s like it is a serious relationship. Sometimes, But both of them we have a very heated discussion about what to do, but underlying that anger is actually a deep connection. They care for each other, they care for their child and that’s when they’re concerned. So, you know, there’s a serious relationship. A serious relationship means that relationship is big enough to improve with negative emotions.

To absorb our anger, to absorb our fear, to absorb our doubts. So it shouldn’t be that because of our fear, our doubts, our anger, our insecurity, it shouldn’t be that we don’t go toward Krishna So as long as what happens is those emotions, they will come and they will go. But underlying that is the steady relation. So sometimes when practicing Bhakti, we feel very happy, sometimes we feel a little unhappy. But that underlying relationship stays steady.

So how do we maintain that faith? I’ll talk about one principle over here. So first first point I have is that emotion going up and down is as natural. But at that time when we talk about faith, faith is ultimately a matter of choice. In our life, there are things that can strengthen our faith, and there are things that can weaken our faith.

So, we can think of time is when by our practice of bhakti, things have worked out positive universe. We have to say bhakti things have worked out positive and we can think of time when things have not worked out positive. So the nature of this world is that it is a place where sometimes the evidence of the world will support our way, sometimes the evidence of the world will not support. So ultimately, it becomes a choice of the evidence. Which evidence will I focus on?

Now you see and then how do I make sense of the times when, say, my faith was not supported? And required some philosophy to understand. But if we shift our focus, it’s a matter of choice. What do I dwell on? Then it is up to us to that’s how we can maintain our feet.

And those who can help us make their choice when we have our association and the association also some new notice if some new notice feeling I’m feeling very Yes. Regarding this, aspiration. So that aspiration comes from the faith and love for the practice. Where does the aspiration come from? That is very difficult.

So where does Brahma Jigyasa come from? It’s it’s a difficult question. So in this taking that point further from generic spiritual inquiring to a specific devotional aspiration. So we the same principle applies. So there is, there’s a lot of analysis, but broadly you can say there are human factors and there are divine factors.

So the human fact the divine factors, of course, gurukrupa, grace of mercy. Among the human factors are our past karma. Some people may have practiced some of the outcomes which are in the previous life and that’s why It can be a a lot of breaking. Say, the way our parent is raised us. Of course, can be extended forward, it can also be our association.

So we come in the association of devotees, and then we see the practice in Bhakti that inspires us. And, ultimately, it is our joys. So our upbringing or our past lives karma, even Krishna’s mercy, they can prompt us in particular directions. But it is ultimately our choice. So now if you consider the Kripa, we don’t know when Krishna will be the Kripa.

We can’t conclude that. Our past karma, whatever it is, it is what it is. We can’t do it. Our upbringing also it is what it is. But we can say if you make this as 2 separate factors, our association our association is what we can change, and that can inspire us to change our choices.

So where does the aspiration come from? It depends. So it’s like sometimes it can be an outside in process. Sometimes it can be the inside out. What does it mean outside?

Sometimes it means we act our way to emotions. That means I just come in the association of devotees and they are praying they are doing kirtan. So, I also start doing kirtan then they are offering me I also start offering me And then by that action, the devotions has come. That’s more like outside. Now sometimes it can be inside out.

That means we feel our way to actions. So whichever way that’s why the operational principle at our level is, somehow there. It can be outside in, it can be inside out, whatever way it works. And the aspiration should be only, done for the pleasure of the Lord. So I’m doing it.

So can I understand it, this way? Inspiration and aspiration. Okay. Yeah. That is definitely one way to understand it.

In one sense, you could say that it’s the same principle of desire that inspiration is when the desire comes to us. Aspiration is when we bring the desire from within. So in that sense, there is a slight difference. Now we could go further and when you talk about aspiration, the aspiration can get various levels. The inspiration can also be at various levels.

You say, those who guide people who are the you don’t need much guiding, but people it’s not that for many people who come more than parikarma is like a weight loss exercise. It is, you know, it’s something biased also, but, you know, it’s not very far from Vrindavan. But far from Delhi, so you come to Vrindavan, it’s natural, it’s scenic. And it is some level of exercise. Now, of course, they don’t have, like, a golden, like, from a marathon or something like that.

It’s not that uncommon. But the idea is now people are coming for that reason. So is that a bad thing? Is it a good thing? It’s a good thing.

So the aspiration, maybe they could just go to a gym and they could just, walk on a treadmill, But they can also be at various levels and similar the inspiration can also be at various levels. So, so the inspiration okay my friend he went and did golden barikama or she went and did golden barikama. So, let me also go into it. Now, some of them may have done it out of a more devotional purpose. Some of them may have done it for a more health purpose.

That’s okay. So generally speaking, in spirit that dynamic of inspiration aspiration is independent of the level. So we do want to aspire for pure motor service, and then we seek the inspiration that will give us pure motor service. What happens even in Devotee Association? There are different kinds of devotees.

Some devotees are very interested in gossip. Is it today? There is, you know, when does gossip happen? Gossip in our treasury call it majamba. It’s generally what happens 2 things have come together for gossip to happen.

First is we hear something we like about someone we don’t like. So if we like that person, then we won’t gossip about that. You know, if something bad has happened or So it’s not that devote all devotees come to Krishna consciousness for Krishna consciousness only. It is like the nature of the mind is such that it is always looking for alternatives to Krishna. So even in Krishna consciousness, we start looking for alternatives to Krishna.

So one alternative is a little more tamas it is become in the association and then we start looking for faults, looking for negating those of those that are in association. So, our aspiration and especially we would like them to be more elevated, but it’s a dynamic both. Both are related with the desire how it rises. So thank you so much. Do you have a question?

Yes. Last question. Okay. So when I see the okay. Let’s see if I can explain this in a way you can understand.

First, I’ll confuse you. Okay? See, words have many different meanings. So that’s called the multivalence of what like, in English, the word run has 650 plus meanings. No.

I’m going for a run. I’m running because my car has stopped running. Because this person is running for president, I’m running away from this country. So the word run has different needs. So like that, the word karma also has different needs.

So you are using the word karma in terms of reactions. So reactions to past actions. So, yes, the reactions to past actions can be changed by the way that is that angkams and babi and vouchisham experiences. But karma can also refer to So karma refers to action. So it is a past actions.

So whatever actions we have done in the past, say, if you plan to wake up at 4 o’clock, but we go about 6 o’clock. Now, no matter how seriously we challenge Krishna, we can’t wake up at 4 o’clock today. Even that past action cannot be changed. So in that sense I use the word karma about whatever actions we have done in the past they cannot be changed. Like Krishna’s word see the reactions to them can be changed.

Now, karma can also refer to the like we have karma, akarma, vikarma. So like it it refers to good action. Now karma can actually also refer to duty. This actions means any actions. Meanings.

I was you referring to it in this sense, you are referring to it in this sense. Does it make any sense? So, see suppose we make a mistake, say you’re giving an example and you give a wrong answer next. Then the teacher will say that okay, you know you can use the same thing for again next time and you can do better. So now that exam, the wrong answer we have given, we can’t change that.

But we can have a second chance in which you can do better. So, but sometimes if the teacher is not very helpful or whatever you say you get a wrong answer you have lost the chance you cannot do it differently. So, that is if so Krishna is merciful in the sense that if you have done some bad actions and we are going to get some bad reactions, so we are going to lose the chance, but Krishna will use a chance again. So in that sense the reactions to our past karma can be changed, but the action itself once we have done an action nobody can change that action that Krishna has arranged the world in such a way that time flows forward time doesn’t flow backwards. So, once an action is done we can’t undo the action.

So, so we’re going to go through this, flow, with this lecture and the coming few lectures with, Brody. And, thank you very much, Prabhuchi, for, how should I say? Generally, for people who are practicing Krishna consciousness, it’s mostly to do with, with reading on the surface of what the scriptures say and then somehow making some connections here and there. And then somehow making some connections here and there. But, the way Prabhu presents the Krishna conscious philosophy is that he he makes the connection to what Krishna speaks in the deepest so deeply that, there’s very little room for us to miss the point.

So thank you, Prabhu, for bringing us closer to the teachings of Krishna, which which actually means bringing us closer to Krishna. And So we will, so we will have the next session in the series, tomorrow at 10 o’clock. What have we announced? 10 o’clock, same venue. We request all of you to She’s a new navigator.

So Thankyou very much…

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That it is when we are trying to, say, direct ourselves towards Krishna, then it is through both these channels. There is a manner in associated emotions, So while there are many past times which can increase our attraction towards the attraction is one aspect, and that’s wonderful. That’s what we want. But we also need conviction. So conviction is what leads our good team.

Attraction is what leads our emotional side. Now for the emotional side, generally speaking, there is not such a categorical differentiation that where do emotions reside or come from. It is the word, the heart that is used. Now our heart is used in literal sense. It is often that comes blood.

But when in the early violence, nobody says you broke my heart. And therefore, even the capacity for desire comes from the soul. Capacity to experience emotions comes from the soul. Those that consciousness is manifesting through the mind, and therefore, it gets filtered. It gets distorted.

It gets basically affected. So that’s why right now, we can say most of our emotions so we could say that the difference between emotion in principle and emotions what are emotional there in practice. So emotion itself, it comes to the soul. In that sense, you can say it’s spiritual. A specific emotions, it depends.

Are the emotions material? Are the emotions spiritual? So then generally speaking, the difference between spiritual versus material, it is done in 2 broad ways. One is through pandemic, and the other is through other pandemic. That is intent plus consequence.

So what does that mean? That, say, we could say the volume is not it. It is made of form. And this is what chapter 2 of the yoga focuses on. And this is broadly the approach of the data.

But beyond that, as we move forward, especially into up to yoga, the idea is that even matter can be used for spiritual purpose. So, Shubhrant, I would say that this mic, it is now okay. You should speak over Krishna, so it’s very true. So now know what robot doing? Program will get an intake.

Why are we using it? Now to external objects also applies to internal. So we could categorize our emotions in terms of content as well as intent and consequence. Generally speaking, this is where emotion intent is going to focus on So now what this means is that there is there doesn’t have to be such a radical differentiation. Say, if you want one, we continue to do a dual all the time.

Say, for example, if you consider a digital blog project. Now we can say it is nothing like a mother’s block project. Well, if we say that, then you can wonder how do we live with it, isn’t it? Now, the point is that we have is so so if by comparing, say, a parent’s relationship with the child or with Krishna’s parent’s relationship with, say, the relationship with parents with the child, and the result will go 2 weeks It can happen. So for later, the change.

Now things are gonna change when we consider the monomers. We get our past tense because the because lust is such a, you will say, triggerable emotion that that’s why we have an advice to caution. And that’s why they have the emphasis on the pain aspect of your movement. That relationship is completely spiritual. That relationship is based on selflessness.

Now what are spiritual spiritual will mean that that forms are completely transcendental. Model says through giving that that actually, our last will decrease. Way decreased. So what I’m saying is here, material spiritual relationships. When you talk about it, our material relationship or the spiritual relationship.

Now we could focus on the. This is expected to be with the. Now the result of that likely is that our attraction to. Now when we will also the paid aspect so that the in the man who you’re especially so that our attraction to lust doesn’t increase. So this pay of pay is something that goes on constantly.

And now why are we talking about all this right now? The point is that when we hear Krishna’s positives, we need to find out what is connecting me to Krishna and what is disconnecting me or diverting me. And generally speaking, when we hear Krishna data, at that time, finally, it’s a matter of the heart. We invest our heart’s emotions and try to we can be more and we do use reason. We use logic.

But most of the time, say, Krishna’s childhood prospect, especially the past tense that we relish. But analysis that is so so for example, the now the last sentence is. The 2 figures, what are the 2 figures symbolize? That is, like, additional insert. It’s valuable, but it’s additional.

So we could say broadly, we talk about additionally that. Let’s say most of it is for. And when it is for, then we approach it and relate to our heart. I talk about heart and mind as related in the sense that that and we go back over here. See, emotions can come from the mind.

Emotions can come from the soul. Ultimately, all emotions come from the soul. All of the specific emotions may be arising. The power of the capacity for experiencing emotions comes from the soul. All the specific emotion may be arising from the mind.

So it is and sometimes that emotions can disconnect us. And if the emotions are disconnecting us, then then we may have to regulate the emotion and then not let our emotions get engaged too much. So sometimes you just choose not to hear certain past times. So specifically, we do the past times. We may choose a, especially for that type of coming to hear those past times.

So now the this is the the background for all this is that some Krishna needs to be approached through emotion. So that’s what we connect. But some may need analyzing, and there, we need to connect primarily with the head with reason. So why am I discussing this? Because by the way, you could be discussing various past times in continuation of history’s theme of, now processing events that the challenge are paid, we’ll be focusing on the recruiting past and opportunities that we’re not discussed.

And those can be very, under the list question reducing, If not quite, these just like me for one’s playthrough. So I go back to the framework that I introduced in the first session of various ways in which we like to be approached or a lot of. Did you remember the? Yes. And what’s later?

So we look at how and then the stories, and he give us what he thinks. The result of this is generally entertaining. He was ethical. So I think the at the ethical level, we approach ABC titles for this journey. Then there is allegorical.

Allegorical is and what is this? What are these? Now this can this is primarily a user of intellectual illumination. So guidance when I say guidance, guidance for decision making in our life, for acting in our life. And here, we can say we it brings absorption.

It brings ecstasy. So each of these levels has its own result. And at one level, the literal and the, this an emotion can seem similar. Seems similar to the other. They can see nonintellectual.

Why nonintellectual? Because the focus is not so much analyzing. The focus is on the mission. If a movie is going on and the point of the movie, then suddenly the director of your will start explaining, you know, this represent this. This represent this.

You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this.

You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this.

You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act like this. You do not act but they have to be much more sublural.

They have to be much more subtle. So the idea is that, literal and devotional, they can see noninteraction. And many past as I’ve said, we approach at this level, and it’s not difficult. But there are some past times, even with respect to Krishna, when they’re approaching him, we have to evaluate what is and what is. So for some past times, we may need to approach them more through our through our easily than through our emotion.

So with this background, let’s move towards the VARTA prospects. I’ll do a quick overview before we come to the key password that we discussed. When Krishna relocated to VARTA, they came to know how prosperous was or how near the were to push, then they might discover. Generally, civilians would not get that, but it is not absolute nonnegotiables. So then pull over the main and implement.

So Krishna said it to protect your losses also by moving far away from there. So while he was in, he was also traveling constantly going through these places, and he led the mind levels with the. And overall, if we look at it from a objective perspective, not just the motion perspective, so we see that there are certain crowning moves in this translation. If you look at how, like Krishna’s life trajectory? Life story.

So Krishna’s killing comes up. Was like his coming emerging on the big scene. Is, coming out the big picture. Then Krishna is establishing Dwarka. That was also a remarkable move.

And that’s a little bit more the moment was because even a strategy perspective. Was, like, an island within the ocean. As long as you say it was underwater, but the map of the business seems to support that idea. It was an island and was well protected. So he could say that, you know, Raul had captured Nanka from Kubernetes so that he could stay protected.

The water is so they have an equal enclosure to protect oneself. So all headquarters there, and I had a lot of discussion now in one sense took that strategy. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why America is really we consider to be it’s, like, historic. It was a geopolitical expert saying that there’s no country in the world that is as geopolitically blessed as America because surrounded the ocean from both sides and relatively non powerful, neighbors are all everywhere. But the ocean is not very far away from land masses.

So attacks the ground of ocean and above all the China is long land or not entirely. Land or to a large extent. Russia is also land off, to a large extent. Yes. They are also vulnerable.

But to some extent, the weather over there makes things almost unbelievable. Not unlivable. Almost, it’s very difficult to function. One of the reasons to say, Hitler’s he would win long before Victor came up, and he was not completely unprepared. So I don’t want to jeopardize.

But the point I’m making is that while we may take specific incidents today and take out terrible business, So the resilience is from a historical perspective remarkable. Now for Krishna, I need to have protection of work. But, the nature of the world so we could look at it. And I talked to a little cosmetic, establishing what was a significant decision. Then the whole group shaped the wall.

That’s before that. It was in the Rajesh who we elected why he was attracted to his wife. And because his consciousness is a particular way, that’s why he didn’t go to heaven. So then now then this is what can I do to ensure that that is to have? Then he said Google Ads BA.

So that is one purpose for improving the last year. Okay? From an ethical perspective, it’s due to its power. For a neutral perspective, it has to modify. Then the group shape reward in which when Krishna himself does not fight, Krishna establishes his strategic expertise, and he helps the pandas win.

And, yes, there’s truth to that. But the point is that it is not unprecedented. So if you consider 11 Akshay Mohi people supported the cover of us. And then was, to use a contemporary word, was creating his own narrative. That he was doing his own propaganda, and he’s very people over.

Don’t let me think and incident as blatant as attempting the result of growth. How do you spell that? Yeah. It’s it’s just indefensible incident, but it seems good And after the exile is over, the the Virat Kingdom, the actually, the and that and everybody comes over there. So the most of them fought on everything.

They were on the. So it is I think the power of the native building that why the find out isolated the forest, do we even know not just building his military mind? Also creating an entity. And that is where we often lack. That is where the our side of the story is something that you didn’t have to tell.

And you have to tell it why emotion that they all these people are political. So this is a bad thing. They are. Every tradition is is is not true. Every religion is known to play the victim.

In fact, it is just Google and search in Google and Christianity in India. From our perspective, I’m concerned with this most important event. That they need to use the. And we need to be aware of it, and we need to be. So, unfortunately, we don’t do that.

Then it is our risk that this happens. So the pandemic is disconnected from the world. And while we do not have any insight, sometimes when we become devotees, we sort of put ourselves in a self imposed exert. That means we don’t care for the order. In fact, many devotees exhibit their material exhibit their material ignorance as a proof of their translators.

So I I don’t know. I’m sort of handling I don’t even know who’s the primary school. No. That’s not a that’s not a that’s not a healthy that’s not a healthy issue because we have the. So for also, for the alliances, creating diversity groups, so I think our side of the story So it’s very convenient when logic is used, but this has to be challenged and exposed rationally, not emotionally.

So emotions are good for connecting with Krishna. Although sometimes our emotions may also disconnect us from Krishna. And now, let’s say, before this, of course, Krishna’s marriage was a significant incident. The marriage is and that’s how how would we manage so many queens and especially how we save those women who have become more and more powerful. Johan tells us to become more and more powerful.

Johan tells us to And then also, you will then repeat it. But otherwise, to add those input. Now then so so now I I thought about the key background, the tool, ethical, and I’ll let I’ll let you go and devotion. So so many times, we may not realize that there are these different levels. And then we may suddenly jump from one level.

Say, we may and apply. But there’s some we’re not committed. That is true. However, since even though the broadcaster has not been repeated, we need to be able to understand and explain that from a rational perspective, especially if they see a technical question, a logical question, a logical question, a logical question that it needs to be explained wrong. And is also was very pragmatic when he was in Hawaii.

Once of the movie that, when we talk with the scholars, this is not a logical answer. And now the question is, what is robots that go to you over here? So they always have to do this with the scholars. Scholars are not to get. This is where do all of them live?

Where will they call it? Where’s their homes? How are they function? It means that it means, but one thing it means is that we should not speak those things which the audience cannot be reasonably expected to have it. So it is our responsibility, not just the the problem with people and their meetings.

We need to present things in such a way that people can have a reasonable faith improvements. Experience to people. People enjoying the voice over difference provide to the voice over difference, which people don’t understand. In a way that will make sense to you. So in fact, this is what robot call us the realization.

So realization means that this is the message of scripture, and this other audience’s interests. So realization is to present scripture in a way as interesting for all this. So what would be interesting? It’ll depend on IP circumstances. Now it the interest is just one word which is, presented to you.

Generally, we’re gonna connect the audience. We say we should be nice to them. Then you are nice. Niceness, basically, both needs, interests, concerns, and expectations. So nice as I’m just speaking sweet and Sweet and sugar.

It just means that we need to be able to connect with the audience. You do what are the you are the interest. What are the what are the expectations? So with this background, now let’s look at the particular cost time for the consideration. So when an incident happens, like I mentioned earlier, an incident can have multiple causes.

So the the the vendor was living in Interpersonal now, and the are living in work. Now before that, it is said that, to some extent, some of the children of Krishna, they become a little spoiled. They become a little powerful. Now power is perfectly fine. They are powerful.

They are. But they become a little arrogant because of that. It’s possible. But it’s not that they are not virtuous. It’s just that they exhibit their power sometimes, and they mistreat a sage.

Most of you know the story that, they take one of the one of the boys, This guy is, like, a woman who is pregnant and says he’ll say, yes. If he’s tell us, this is gonna be viable. And they just we want to just say, whatever this is, this will be the call of your instruction. Now, generally, when the incident happens, there could be multiple causes recorded. So there’s a proximate cause, proximate, and then there’s a distant cause.

So there is also that after all of the sons are killed, not very close to this. And he says just as I have to live with the destruction of my whole my entire dynasty. You will have to live with the personal destruction. Now Krishna says that I tried my best. You are very poor.

You know yourself how good you was, and he brings the syndrome and he’s proposing. Although, even you try to make him, but still, I accept your first. So we’ll talk about accepting our first. So, basically, these 2 incidents that we have that are the both of the month process at a particular level. So when Krishna realized happening?

When Krishna realized happening, Krishna has multiple purposes to Jamont. So at one level 2, what else Krishna? One is Dharma. The other is. These 2, when they say are similar, but they are not.

And then it goes on to how the emotion, how we have to refer to the nature, the the mind, that will become true. So now it’s interesting the way Krishna explains it that, actually, it’s something like a. See, dharma is universal. In the sense that it is mandatory for everyone. Krishna says, I come to establish dharma.

So dharma, in that sense, is like a law order that has to be established. It’s not a matter of personal choice. Somebody says, I will follow speed to this. I will write the right thing. If you don’t write the right thing, then we will get you out of the road.

We take away license. We put you in jail. So Dharma is not mandatory. That’s why we are the biggest time in Dharmavoy has nothing to do with. Where Dharma can be in this context.

The war was not a war for dharma in the sense of religion. Why is that? Because you see the war, the Kauravas, and the Pandavas. Guru was God Shiva, and that’s why we had Drupadhyay and worship God Shiva and 85 husbands. On the mantel side, then Vish on the caller side, Vishma was a question of her.

Similarly, Oshisha was a question of her. So it was not a battle between, say, remote and non remote. It was not that, oh, it a, the power just became remote. It is not a But in the Abrahamic religions, Abrahamic religion, health is for non believers. In the Vedic tradition, health is for wrong doers.

It is not for long videos. Somebody may disagree with Nishtha, but if they are living in the. If they are living a life of. They are doing pooja. They do good work.

So somebody could be a taste. Well, in terms of blue system, it needs to be a lot of stuff to resist. But in terms of lifestyle, people. But so in that sense, we could say hell is like a person. It’s for solving a lower order model.

So what is the point I’m making over here? And when you go back over here, and Krishna is talking about his purpose. The bigger purpose is to establish dialogue. Now people bigger verticals are dynamically to its background. Then that is true.

So it’s like Krishna is in the spiritual world, and this is the material world. So Krishna only descends as avatar of the spiritual world and the material world. So we would say one purpose is to establish dharma. And then within that, a smaller purpose is to inspire a deep by which a person goes back. Sometimes, Bhakti requires the delete of all that.

That’s what Krishna says. And the movies are examples of that, So sometimes there will be tension with the. Sometimes Krishna, Krishna emphasize that. Sometimes he emphasizes that. So, in the problem, the go b is called go b is first time also.

So the Dharma and Bhakti, they sometimes are attention. And this tension between Dharma and Bhakti comes to its height in the in the past time of the departure of the ghettos from the world. So what happens is that the ghettos, they go to. They do their various activities, but it is see, many times, the the religious activities in the past, you know, like, the religious plus, you could say entity, They will combine together. So for example, when the when the there’s a religious plus social, religious plus entity, all of us together.

It does it has a So the and performed the, release activity that was supposed to perform the the for us. But then there was a social occasion. They started to think. Now the more analytical supers are understood different ways. So the so if you look at the to install the record, the ground because a section of the who follow the.

There are also and those of you who cannot live without me, then please go to, you know, He will take care of me. I won’t be able to take care of it. So give us. So that means how can Rama take me? Or you lose drinking.

This was not an extraordinary exceptional activity. If gambling was a part of. Drinking was a part of. Although, he never and after drinking, dedicate the proxy. So again, I look at this first time from 3 different levels.

From the we look at the immediate, the it was the parasite. The parasite was the fight among brothers or fight among the panel. So now in which she what triggered, They all got drunk, and one of the problems with the drinking among the main problems is that drinking lowers inhibitions, that there are normal inhibitions between strain our behavior. And inhibitions when they are lower, now some people have spend their positive view. And they say, like, in the west, they have the idea that a bar is a very good place to have a heart to heart discussions.

But that’s not only the change that gets lower. What happens is that people can also become violent. People can become regression. And, the many times domestic violence is it’s a very volatile event happens. And it’s it’s much more of a issue than, a So what happens after the so when you say alcohol is good.

Alcohol, what it does is lowers inhibitions. So inhibitions in terms of movements, speech and action. So right now, I’m analyzing the credit incident in the perspective of digit cost. So what happens is that during the crucial reward, the the Duarte Rasis have significant. The Narayan Zena is on the Colorado side.

And along with Narayan Zena, there is Kruthva Varnum. Kruthva Varnum then, and. And says to. And because the the state of grounds was too bad, they just immediately got this voice. And they start fighting together.

And in the Friday, get the other hand just lobs out there or something. And those engines also will happen. And what started out this is a period that people get done, they may just beat something. That generates a lot of disaster. Then eventually, part of the world.

Krishna Krishna So when Krishna passed to the void, then they enter exactly with him. Now the remaining queens, they wanna come with they come with Arjuna, but then Arjuna is attacked. Arjuna is attacked by some. Sky works. So overall, it seems, you know, you know, tragic end to a divide date.

It’s a it’s a terribly tragic input. Not just tragic. It’s a terribly tragic. So at a immediate level, we really see that this is a result of alcohol. That alcohol is so dangerous that especially if there are tensions that are not in result.

Now this there’s several years go on. It’s RTP and that is talking to each other before. I’ll try to make understand what happened. Why didn’t they do something else? Then they could have made sense of it.

But those tensions were unresolved. I’ve got all the it acted like a and then the fuel is already there, and then there you wave our magic and then you wave our magic falling into the fuel and just pause explodes. So alcoholism plus. So we say that this was at one level of cost. At another level, the cause are the causes.

The 2 verses, the curse of the stages that led the specific inter hiding among the another. Now what it’s tried is that they had put the they had put something like a robot in their body, And they took the rod and they broke it into I got smaller particles and then blew it. But then that came back with the ocean, into the post of the tiger. And that that that came apart of the tall or blue, like weeds. This the word is then use grass, but they’re more like weeds like bars.

And then your tools, because they want to be displayed, they’re not really gone with many weapons. Some of them had this wall. They’re not bigger events. So then they just pick up these these bar like wheels and they give it to the wheel. So the curves was the cause at one end.

The last time this curves was also there. Krishna is gone. No. Why would Krishna not intervene? Why would Krishna let this go on?

So see, as I mentioned earlier, Krishna uses long importance at times, and Krishna does not use long words. By not by stopping to but by and this is the incident. Krishna showed Nomimoto at that time, so it’s the next day our feet look. We can head. We turn to Krishna for answers, and that’s important.

You know? Krishna is going on in my life. Please help me. And that’s what prayers. Prayers could be they’re they’re gonna be practical.

We can look for practical answers. We can look for philosophical answers. As important as Krishna answers. That is true. But eventually, he will turn to Krishna as the answer.

Not for answer, but as the answer. It’s just that Krishna can give us desirable things, There’s right and wrong from a moral perspective, but there is right and wrong even from a rational perspective. And that kind of dialogue we need to create is low production. So now when Krishna does this particular task, so like I said, there’s a tension between dharma and company. So the purpose of dharma So these are 2 distinct protocols.

And many times, these 2 can go together or sometimes they do all opposite things. So when this happens, Krishna will discord in the past time in the in the instruction. Actually, Krishna emphasizes that Krishna wants to show that although he is god, now he voluntarily accepts the first. So Krishna is god. So now that eventually through everything that happens, Krishna’s demonstrating of how he protects his devotions, how he protects the off the cross.

And that’s wonderful. Now does that mean that what this Exactly the opposite. That that even a personal that you just of you just discover when he can’t go recording the so much stuff. But then they get drunk. This is what the result.

Then they often say, dear, this is what the result. And how much more careful should we be able to solve this? So in some past times, Krishna focuses on giving lessons about dharma then about not. He emphasizes her ethical principles. And so when dharma and Bhakti have a, then we need to understand what is to be learned from.

So this particular past time is not for devotional inspiration. It is for ethical instruction. So these 2 are very different things, and the purpose of this past time is ethical instruction. Ethical instruction is many things. As I first is don’t get drunk.

Second is that don’t let others all intentions just fester. They’re gonna explore it back time and don’t update the cities. Serve different purposes. I think we’ll ask some point in this point that, the Bhagavath says that if somebody will conclude from this pastime So is that person who went to the award of and came back? That person who survived the many arrows that were hit active when he was Ajna’s charity.

Normally speaking, the charity will protect the the warriors will protect the warriors. But the charity will also fail me. So if you want to use it from a rational perspective, how can I add all the link, cause a fatal injury? Now the thing is that and then I will also not hit by a trained warrior. So now it’s very easy and getting humiliated to focus on our humiliation.

It focuses on that this is a this is a this is a you are working with the most. So Modi will see the response of their emails and the response of Shiva’s. Shiva said, okay. That yeah. You’re glorious.

I know you’re glorious. Why do you have to do this to me? Why do you have to do this? So similarly, when we approach the Azure mobile data Azure mobile data, so it is the ROI takes a moment. Sometimes, the ROI performs certain past times, which are also meant to separate the faithful of the pages, the divine from the demoniac.

So the demoniac will focus on the past time, which seems to challenge Krishna’s omnivores. Krishna’s would be. And then use that and say Krishna cannot. Krishna cannot. So there’ll be demons and there’ll be devotes.

Now demons will stay deluded. And the robot said about the. Sometimes devotees may also get perplexed. But if devotees, they don’t get perplexed, but not discourage or discourage. I devote it.

I’m going to. He’s in the This is for establishing the. It is for each one of us to choose what we focus on. Sometimes, I’m going to respond that. That this choice of evidence, it is something which I do think each one of us has to do.

That if we consider say, let me say how there’s a mechanism by every discount. You know? What happens That’s amazing technology. But then it is will argue if cloud are arranged by God to give it, then why do cloud view rain or oceans? There’s always no water work.

But our principle is that the activity, what we should need to change, what evidence do we focus on. In our own lives, there will be times when we will be built. Everything seems to be going wrong The first thing he said is we tried. We are possible to send work in the rest. That was a good plan.

That is a good very good. It’s a good and we got that. What we did was in the mission. My thoughts shifted from my situation to your situation, bro. I said, Rohit, I am just hearing about these problems.

You were dealing with all these problems. And you never became discouraged. K, is that you were like a commander who was leading an army, and all around you, your soldiers are getting wounded. The generals are getting wounded, and you never stop fighting the war. He said because your vision was fixed on Krishna.

Not on what is happening in the world. You were aware of it, but your your fate was coming from Krishna. And because of that, rather than seeing all so many people have fallen in this war are falling in this war, you will see that you it is Krishna who will send you so many, and you will on Philip, the one day more very close to. He had some problems, and he left the room. So He had some problems and he left the room.

So, and he says, I’ve burned up this news and I’m I think he’s so distressed. And after coming to me, you’re gone away. And I think so. Share the technology on the west. That is just.

That people are taking it up. That is miraculous. That there are some people who are succeeding. That itself is. So we have to choose the evidence, which is evidence that enhances faith and which is the evidence that challenges our extinguishes our data.

So depending on which evidence we focus on, we will be able to grow in monthly or not. So the the the the every the channels are paid, we try to make some sense of it, but we don’t dwell on it too much. We accept it. Let’s see what will happen. Try to come to some sensible explanation, something that makes some sense, and then get more.

So I’ll summarize what we discussed today. So we were discussing primarily about the top we’ve been doing past intervention. We’ve been doing the the faith we’re doing past things. Not just intellectual, not just modeling. So I started by talking about how when Krishna descends to this world.

Krishna’s descent is having dual purposes. It is to establish and it is to inspire. And, Amisha, So they can go together in, say, you wish to the next point. But they can go opposite, which is what happens in the. So then we discussed about the various incidents in Krishna’s past.

The nice story of Krishna with the key incidents. So Krishna’s moving to VARTA was a way of protecting his of using a water as a way to protect the citizens protect the. So now we discussed the that could be understood in terms of immediate cause. The immediate cause was drinking. We discussed the drinking, global in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our in our So Krishna is god, but sometimes Krishna wants to establish the principle of harmony.

He lets himself or his loved ones be affected by. So sometimes, when we propose any idea on that, Krishna focuses on manual for a particular level and his teacher at a particular level. So the ultimate cause is that Krishna provides evidence for everyone. Whatever Krishna, Krishna provide evidence for everyone depending on what they want to do so that the as soon as the moment we are. So Krishna comes in a way that if somebody wants to be deleted, they can also be deleted.

So ultimately, we discussed that faith is a matter of our choices of evidence. So I started by talking about how we talk about Krishna. We have to see somewhere we approach with the head, and they are for analyzing. There’s nothing to release in those past tense, But analyzing so that we make some sense of some approach to the heart, where they are for. And we need to know which is.

So approaching the past tense, they see, the past tense of Krishna protecting the the working is protecting the and ensuring that, that is the past time. That is the past time that That is the first time which you can put it at half. Rather, the first time you need to approach it ahead, and then we find out ultimately which is the you will look for a. So we try to make sense. So we try to make some sense of past times, but I will focus focus on our devotion enhancing past times.

So emotion enhancing means how many of you felt that was opening door and windows and, I don’t know, whatnot in our brains? But it’s taking us through the You find it. Wait. Go there. It’s okay, sir.

Then one more. It’s taking this one case. But what? I mean, one way you can see do I need to get this? They give us a smooth landing.

Right? And, actually, maybe probably, he was actually not gonna discuss this as part of our career. But it was me who are told you that told you, please, can you cover this, you know, this Prabhavak ship, the real line, the whole thing because, well, trying to become a devotee, but then, there is always this gray area. It’s so difficult to explain anybody when they challenge us. Already, I’m studying with my faith, and somebody puts a brahmastra on that faith, you know, and, like, correct.

So now I know how to answer Luis. It’s probably just answered now or later. Why did he even give Narayan Senna? You know, like, when he when he goes that Riodar is gonna use it for a dharma and Narayan Senna belongs to him, I would even do that. You know?

Like, it’s so difficult to and what did he please that now I just said, before he set them for the work? That I’m standing on opposite side. Don’t mind including me. And, similarly, many more questions. They they keep popping up, but your conclusion there too was so important that what is the evidence that we’re looking at ultimately.

Will that question lead us to devotion, or will that question lead us to more doubts? Or there is no end to understanding what Krishna did, what he did. But one thing is mister Copeland told us many times that Krishna is waiting to see him back home back to Garett. So that that that is the primary thing, you know, that drives when we go through difficulties also that Krishna will take us back into the machine. You know?

So Krishna is waiting. So, do anything. So then I think, I did try to make. It is an obligate past time. I can analyze and.

So regarding this specific question, see, what would she have to use? Fighting is they said to to. Fighting was very difficult. Fighting what champions do. So now ideally, we should also have that.

They’re gonna So they were quite. Thank you for the wonderful value. Two levels of then when it comes to figures, there’s big numbers. There are 2 ways of looking at it. One is that it is void.

And in that in the also it is correct that, that said that the okay poets have glorified And it is quite possible that such quality can be used. And we see that it’s often there. So when you said that, We can perceive his presence when the movies come to their employ. So non literal usage is very common in scripture because much of scripture is. Literal.

So there’s lots of. So is that we had 100 of 1,000 of us. So we are getting 100 and 1,000 of us. So which are we do, both are considered to be true. And in both, we cannot figure out a way in which both ends have been.

That is when we say the change. It’s not just that, okay. So So so the thing is that it could be that it could be that it could have had some stick powers and you could expand it. So so you would see one is poetic, the other is. That’s one speech.

If you had the stick powers, you can just use the stick powers, we get a check. So he didn’t do that. So the point of the story is what? That he he was so well, this thing he could try to check. So the the the point of the story is not affected by the specific number of bytes in that.

Isn’t it? So if somebody could take it as, he had some mystical power, somebody could say it any other point at the at the point. And both are. This could be poetic through mystical. So how hell leads to purification?

Because and then it’s a purification. So hell and the punishment that we go through in hell, that creates some conscious impressions, which which deter us from. One more thing. Like, when we talk about taking shelter of Krishna, so it it is said that Krishna guarantees to protect it spiritually, but not materially. So when we read this Shirdasamy past time, so it may also happen in some other case that that for that child, some parents would not have come.

So how we conclude from that past time that Krishna always protects his daughter, you know, like this? So the past time that a child was protected by the Lord, the child denounced the modem or whatever. So now our strengths are demonstrative issues. They are specific demonstrative. That doesn’t mean those are patterns that will be universal.

It it certainly does not mean that all manage you know, just abandon their children and. No. So I have a one friend. He said, like, I’m never. Yeah.

It’s awesome. Some he said, maybe how we want maybe how much trouble you have to take care of the databases. There are there is a non particular gene, and there should be non particular gene. But there are times when the normal particulars may not be there. So at that, at that time, Krishna then.

Like, we should our faith in Krishna will increase so that there is very important. Why there are extraordinary incidences? Generally speaking, extraordinary incidents of any kind. But, anyway, he says, generally speaking, no one person’s life is interesting enough to make that in one character. So one character is a composite of many people.

So the point I think is that, generally speaking, just a a booking incident is not stable. You know, if we record everything that we did one day, and then the next day, I just sit and watch everything today. So the extraordinary results. Now the purpose of this is not to normalize the extraordinary. So as as it is not that after hearing the past time of, Ajani can deliver, then regular devotion service.

How surely they’re already delivered, isn’t it? So it is not to normalize the extraordinary. It is to emphasize the ordinary. That so what is the order you’re gonna hear? That the order I’m not in the order.

It’s the standard. We don’t have our standard expectations. That’s why the inputs on the past time, which should have removed around us. We’ll go on and take a long time. So we do not take one past time and make a absolute lesson in that past time.

So generally, whenever we are getting scripture, so there are we can absoluteize every past time, and that’s not healthy. We get relativeize every past time. And that is all of us do at that time is not true now. But what we both of them are, what we use context utilize. Context.

So contextualize means what? We look at the point, and we look at the point of the point. What is it that’s in the loop view that? So that is about. He is not studying to get a PhD in.

His interest is Krishna. Now there are 2 ways of becoming Krishna. 1 is to bring Krishna into our consciousness. And this is what normally we hear about Krishna channel. But other is bring what is in our consciousness to Krishna.

Bring what is called in our consciousness to Krishna. So for example, we may have learned some stories, the moral story in my childhood. So questions are used very well. Questions have a whole genre of creatures whose main pitching is through movies. So movies are already in people’s minds.

So what are the, you know, actually, that can be drawn from movies? This. So the idea is that particular section of the is in the second world. Cosmograph, and he wants to connect that cosmography with Krishna. How do I see this devotion?

So that is the purpose. What is this? Not just to know. But no, actually, So now in today’s world, for us, that cosmology is itself very. I guess in general.

The focus is more on the spiritual principles of the rather than the specific dimensions that we don’t talk about in this dimension, but it is not as focus. So we have to be clear that that was one way. That was a relevant tech actor. But it may not be relevant now. Say, for example, somebody is a video in.

And So in that sense, that’s where your cosmology is not. It is. It is something important. It’s already been that will enhance that. Now beyond that, still, you can say, I wanna make some sense of what it is.

So there are multiple ways in which, the movies are trying to make sense of it. See, we cannot really take much help from these large ideas. Because these are changes who commented on this, they are not they were not interacting with. So there are not, communities. But they were the word science and not really the scientific and the world and not at that time so much.

So the 3 ways that I’ve seen, one is these are higher. That is. So that means that this is something happening at another level of here. That’s what we’re talking about. Now the third is second is that is a conceptual journey.

Conceptual journey means that when our conscious was the words, like, a other countries. So the point is not exactly what is there to get. The point is that we don’t need to follow our conceptions till we reach Krishna. So it’s a conceptual So it’s a conceptual. Now when probably not talk about this so much.

He has talked about this project. And, there is some reason to do that in, tradition also So, it is set up. Now 7 days are almost over. How much time was there? The third way of looking at it is that it is a historical condition.

That means now this is not something which I have seen, our tradition talk about, but there are other rational relations and their teachers will see that. This was how how people thought that. So it is possible that now also says that specific scan is this time. That, for example, in the first kind of our code, Krishna is a journey from, and try to put the response, that’s very possible. But that is the type that I’m really focused on.

So how to understand these things that is some intellectual. So I would be very hesitant to do that in historical conception, but the other 2 is a conceptual journey and that it is a higher dimensions. So higher dimensions are really possible. I have not seen that being used for the earth. I’ve seen it being used for the company, talked about it in for the channel because, see, the one is described is for I do have to hit the the moment just like a bandwidth, and that is true to some extent.

That’s what I experience is. But our experience is limited. So existence is material. Right? We have a computer.

Then So And making cosmography is a book written by. It’s doctor Charles Thompson that I found in the best book as well as for giving Is it necessary to make sense of everything? Well, what is this concerning depends on what is a priority for us. Okay. It’s fine.

So now with respect to there is postmodern destinations. And there are higher domains. Heaven is the higher domain, and the spiritual void is the highest domain. So basically, takes us to the spiritual domain. Takes us to the.

So now the focus is on So from perspective, they were describing that the market was reduced. And then they saw it, those are also in heaven. So the idea is, first of all, heaven is non permanent. So heaven is a reward for certain actions, but it’s a non permanent reward. So through your head, hide, fought in the war, and died a honorable.

And all of it, although he tried to hide eventually fought. So it is that time when the warrior, the soldier without lynching or running away, fights to. So how are the APIs looking? So we may have to identify the idea of APIs who are who are this thing. And you all have to.

And then I feel like. So I actually see the rest of what I see that They have so much bought into their faith that they’re using the. Most of the types, ATS, either they have psychological. There we know in some way, I’ll just speak to somebody, So the true sense means that there are places in the in the structure of the universe. We have the earth is in the middle, and above us is heaven, and below us is hell.

So they are places where we go, but they are not just physical places. These are also states of mind. So states of mind means that someone who is whose whose mind is filled with that and everyone’s desire, something, or rendered by their own addictive So this was a unbelievable feeling, bro. First time, the tower, first time, you know, Marika, Matura, Prutjita. And, we only felt that as he was speaking and stopping, there’s so much more, so much more, so much more.

 Thankyou…

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And then it shifts all the way from 1 from the one side of the bank to the other side of the bank. Now exactly what are the reasons he does that. We do that when we focus on. However, there is always in life, like, this tension between safety and activity. Isn’t it?

The shifts are safest in the rock, but ships are not going to be in the rock. So like that, we could have say, you did it right. I go on my mobile. So I’ll not go on my mobile. Let me try to edit the who is not much in their own country because they have so many things to do in other countries.

So now what is the optimal optimal balance with safety and activity? This same principle we applied to us have 9 sales. There use our strength. That’s one thing. And then what requires strength.

What requires strength, but it and enable service. So this balance is always dynamic. So all that Krishna is doing outside, It culminates in the. So we will talk about 3 broad things. And as god is omnipotent.

As god is omnipotent, we can do everything. Now that is not very helpful for us to learn anything practical in our lives because we are omnivoted. So we can also look at it how Krishna is strategic in what he does, how Krishna is very intelligent in him letting him has very different meanings, but broadly, there are 2 meanings. One meeting is social and the other is individual. So when Arjuna starts the discussion, he’s asking the individual.

Uh-huh. I want to know what the right people. So each one of us needs to do the right thing. Say, if you’re a company, Just to set an example for individuals because all the individuals don’t have omni moments at their home. They have to navigate their challenges in a practical way.

And how do we intellectually fix whatever power we have? So that means what I’m saying is, but here, pause on the importance is shown. Here, there is shown. Krishna has to establish the market of love, but there’s a lot of other action happening. So if they’re at home and you can just be the somebody love with the allowance.

But if somebody know you, I’ll be fighting. So then you will show that I care for you, I love you, I’m fighting for the influence. Or that will be embracing and tagging and all those kind of things. Yeah. So I’m is in a disempowered condition.

They are princess, but they are few months in this, heading. This is after the 1 hour, fire. And then that relationship is moving forward. There are many key elements in that. So Krishna is helping the founder of us in various ways.

To eliminate poverty or be persecuted. So then, the Russia has an apparent fairness when he used to find out how to And then that is the time where Krishna and all the allies will post. And then she respond, but alliance is a little more for a boost group. So Krishna becomes for Arjuna and then they fight. And then the is.

And then after this whole thing happens, Indra is. Now Indra says that the guy is good. I literally got to share the word also, but he’s playing in Google. So at that time, Indra says that, principle in politics in all of it. What is that?

Try for the best. Prepare for the worst. So because the principle for life, we try to bring the best out there, but we prepare for the worst. So the the try for the best means they seek peace. And there are multiple rounds of negotiation that happen, but preparing for the worst wins, seek allies.

At the final one, I’m forming alliances where for war happens, we are ready for the war. So much of what has happened in Indian history, we’ll talk about why that has happened, is that Indians have chosen only one side sequence. For example, the person is say, right now, any anything that happens to that person that could be explained within one causal framework, time and the time is too fast. It could be because I need some code yesterday. It could be because I have a respiratory tract issue.

It could be because there is some general environment. There could be many different causes. So now the focus when we are missing a problem is what is the most actionable cost. I will say if I am getting bored because there is a climate change. Okay.

That may be a pause, but what can I do? Let me think right now. Plan in advance. So Krishna has multiple plans to do. So this is this is important to understand that sometimes when he has to go with us early, Krishna, How is it?

Why the beginning only? You know, these things are not going to work. Then why come there? So the nature of the word is sometimes through one action. Just like I was telling earlier that, a situation can have any causes.

Right? There is an effect. What makes karma complicated? Many things. But one of the things is that an effect can come from multiple causes.

Multiple causes can combine to give it. So we have pause 1 and then that’s cause. So it cause n. But conversely, what it means is that one cause one action can have multiple events. So our calls can have effect 1, effect 2, like, effect 10.

So we can see seek one effect and that effect may not come. And this is a video. But some other effort may come by. And and that effect comes back to the success. So at one level, Krishna has come out of these messages.

And Krishna has to say, it’s not going to work. Krishna says, I want to make sure that the work knows that this work will not always be a part of us. The call of this work work with the cover of us. So the plan is avoid your work. Plan b is make sure to demonstrate who is the call workers.

So now if you consider plan a is completely frustrated by the little than the. But that very obviously actually fully plays into Krishna’s plan. Each of them leaves their space, and that’s why I do this. There is nothing for the can you go to the pandas person? Everybody gives their space.

So And what is the amount of bones? Actually, the demons have devours within the forest. And after 18 years, they have bind up And Krishna himself doesn’t rely on it constant. Constant. You figures?

Krishna use occasionally can actually make his goals. If Alina starts playing his brothers and he starts despise his brothers, he starts criticizing his brothers. All that’s going to do is to focus on? There could be many causes. We could 0 it on.

Which cause to focus on? We need to focus on the cause that is actionable. Actionable means that will lead to constructive change. Because that that we will also take calls and focus on a particular cause at that particular time. That is important.

Now does there that the cause and not respond for it? And, yes, they would be important. But at that point, it’s not the most important to those. So when we say our response to the state, if the legal state was or so that our response to the state is a legal state. So what does that mean?

That means we start focusing on the pause that is not really we would place it in multiple causal frameworks. And it will the other element causal framework is that is void. It doesn’t have the void. But we don’t have to place everything immediately in that causal field. So depending on which causal framework causal framework is okay.

This was caused by this. So so which pause do we focus on? So, you know, there are different pauses that are responsible. So we need to focus on the pause that makes things better. Suppose that the increment is.

Now we could say that, okay. What is the that I’ve been on this side. That I’ve been on the wall and this is good enough. And while the founders outside and other than the job inside, that was because of JED. Now JED knew whether what he was doing.

See, even in the war time, there was some sense of equality. Even Ashwat, for example, wanted to touch. Ashwatama said, you know, you are my son. You are like my son. Don’t make me angry.

I don’t want to kill me. Came in between at that time, he knew what he was doing. He was basically not just showing his power, not just using the the blessing that she had given him and showing how you can stop the pandas. You know, stop the pandas or you and you did. But he used that time, and he he is going to use.

That’s why Anjuna directed his anger at. So I I thought we were gonna use that and. And the next day, the was killed. It was the most morale shattering day for the. Because their entire army was deployed.

Just stop. I do I’m not from the detail, and yet I do not reach it. So they come but entire army can’t stop 1 more of the opposite. And how can you stop the entire army? So it just became completely what I’ll check with it.

And he doesn’t get up. Entirely can’t get this one So the thing is that bad things happen in the sport all the time. That’s just the nature of the world watching. Now that doesn’t mean that they all have a deep happening. That doesn’t mean that it is passively accepted.

So when Arjuna had done everything he could, then Krishna did what Arjuna did. So when we do everything that we can, then god will do what we can’t. But that’s also. That’s why we didn’t take this now. We’re done something in the moment.

And what can we do about it. So devotees as a matter of functioning in the world, it’s not that devotees rely on Krishna’s own default and follow that. So which cause will be focusing? So take it, let’s say that, at one level, people say, hey. This is just user analysis, And this is the type of exclusion and that is the part of all problems in the world and this business is we will graduate on that one call.

And then there is knowledge So we could say that this is not the cause at all. So people say, okay. You know, there are people who are poor and people that were yeah. They get radicalized because they have most of chances of prospects in their life. They get radicalized.

They become terrorists. And they look at is that you have to explore the investment to take one cause and make it be the only cause. To take it as to take one thing, push the other, take us to take one call and make it into the only cause. This is knowledge in our. So we will say that knowledge in the model influence is where whatever it may be.

In whatever area, you can just find one cause and in that, the only cause. This is the cause of all the problems. How does that happen? That means that the we seek more and more knowledge about only that particular loss, And then the ignorance is expanded for the knowledge. The knowledge simply expands the growth.

We will also take notes. This is the cause of all the problems in the world. There are 2 things that I would talk about is that I can do this, that we cannot with the we take one cause and the strong cause. And the other extreme is no reference to that cause at all. So in this particular, the particular cause is not at all, and the other is that cause is free and the only cause.

So actually, extruders are kinder than exclusives. Extruded say, you’re going to go to hell anyway. Why are you late? So now again, what is happening is? One thing is and one thing is very well.

That’s. So the. Islam. And in writing on them. So the problem is not Islam person.

It is So was not a. That that we are the best in the world. And then that. So now can exclusion come to the ideology is possible. Now is it that some ideologies are more likely to cause extrusion than others?

That’s also possible. I think though I will be there, we have to get to our. But we need to recognize that it is extrusion which arises from. That is the cause. Now if that comes from particular pathways, those pathways need to be addressed.

But if it fixate too much of those pathways, then that is not the case. In the Abhavad Gita, the cause that we that we can the cause by focusing on which we can do something about it. So what can we do about it in this? Like, I started Dharma at a societal level at a societal level, we need to increase our influence. What we call as, is it word word?

Not long. Logging is a negative word. But I notice that each region or each group has its own interests, and those groups, they advocate their interests. So if you see our group, like, 5 or 10 years ago, and we may say we are we get a but the world is gonna see the. So that so we need to work with other groups as have more advocacy.

I I have remote friends. There are many Jews working on remotes, and the one junior is actually working with many Indian leaders. Not just. So what, what some people have done is that that these devotees, they they are not. They are Indians are not.

But the religion that leads to. It’s a very exclusive mix. So the devotees on there, right now, not all of them are. That is the only one to stay. We have a large.

So for them, it is important that people can’t accuse them of just being Indians in Bangladesh. That’s why Indian devotees of India or Indian government acting too aggressively support it. It is also action right now, but it will form into the feeling. See, now when somebody is being targeted, are they targeted? We go to that region.

And there’s a lot of not just targeting right where we have to target it right. But it was just indiscriminate. So for us at this level, you didn’t fix it on one cause, and that may actually be counterproductive at the ground level. So at an individual level, what can we do? So in those who are.

So But So they’re voice in the keyboard wires. People speak a lot of lot of inflammatory things. And how exactly those things will be utilized, that depends on time case that is not easy in this particular case as a skin there, including the field of, quality of materials. But those who are not. What do we do at that point?

So we understand that that we all are parts of a computer reality, and we have our part to do. And then we discuss about the Hana Karma working there. One action can have multiple results. And conversely, one result may be coming from multiple causes. So we need to look at which is the most constructive analysis.

Krishna does that, you know, that don’t the wise, they act in such a way to make things better. So which cause to focus on? Which action for the state, which action to take, which action to pursue? So we see that Krishna’s plan itself. Krishna’s So how does trying to lead men?

In the scripture itself, there’s there’s multiple ways in which discussed about what And then lastly, and it’s just about what can we do at a moment from the. The enemy the enemy is not a political ideology of the enemies. A more one. A more one means to extremes. This is the only part of the problem.

This is the only action that is followed up. Either of this. Let’s say, if I did apologize, In fact, the SSR session that we do here, you know, 12 sessions of the staff without any appreciation could take less or even 60% content is from your points that we have wrapped and we took it in different insights and all those questions. And I think this, explanation that you’re told about cause and effects is very important because often, you know, emotionally, we react on it. My humble request would be, you know, if you can go one more step in this saying how to identify the actionable path, and how to control the emotions or rather understand the emotions, then we make the decision.

You know, we experience it many times. You know? It’s it’s we understood that there are many causes. We are to act on the actionable cause. This is my personal effort.

Many times, I struggle with the future. You know? What when whatever little bit we’re doing, so many, challenges come, and and immediately impulse impulse will be react and we pay the price for it. And then we start thinking and in the product spectrum, we try c, we try c, we try c, we try c, then it is okay. Maybe Krishna doesn’t want it to happen.

To him? Or maybe he’s already doing, but we’re not seeing how he is. So how do I identify what an actionable cost and how do we control our emotions or manage our emotions when we have to when we have to make a decision? You know, there’s, practically, you know, in day to day life. Not only as a teacher, in fact, you know, today, I’m going to address a very big form of, industries in the office.

And, I was thinking what to speak with this. So I already got some content on what to speak with. I’m not gonna work exactly, but, So I my little knowledge, I read a very little also. I’ve got very little. I couldn’t find anywhere.

1. Balancing Safety and Activity:

The discussion begins with a metaphor about ships navigating from one side of a bank to the other, which represents the balance between safety and action. Just as a ship is safest when docked but cannot achieve its purpose unless it sails, individuals must balance staying in a safe zone with taking necessary actions in life. This balance is dynamic, meaning it needs constant adjustment depending on the situation.

2. Action Based on Strength:

The speaker explains that we need to identify our strengths and use them in actions that benefit us and others. This is where Krishna’s strategic actions come into play—Krishna’s intelligence and strategy are highlighted, showing that his actions are not impulsive but well thought out, addressing both individual needs and broader social contexts. This speaks to the importance of intellectual growth and choosing the right actions based on the situation.

3. The Role of Krishna:

Krishna’s omnipotence is acknowledged, but it’s pointed out that his actions in the Bhagavad Gita are not arbitrary. Krishna’s approach is to guide Arjuna (and through him, all individuals) in making decisions that balance personal and social responsibilities. Krishna’s teachings emphasize the importance of doing what’s right, not merely for individual salvation but for the greater good of society.

4. Navigating Challenges with Strategic Planning:

The example of Arjuna’s dilemmas is used to explain that life’s challenges often have multiple causes and effects. The speaker suggests that understanding the causes of our problems is key, but the focus should always be on the most actionable cause—the one that can lead to constructive change. This requires us to think ahead and make plans, similar to how Krishna plans his interventions strategically.

5. The Complex Nature of Karma:

The concept of karma is explored, showing that one action can have multiple results, and conversely, one result can come from multiple causes. This reinforces the idea that life is not simple, and the cause-and-effect relationship is not always linear. Therefore, individuals must be discerning in identifying the most relevant causes that they can address.

6. Dealing with Emotional Reactions:

One of the key struggles mentioned is emotional reactions. The speaker acknowledges that it’s easy to be impulsive and react emotionally to situations. However, the more constructive approach is to identify the actionable cause that can lead to positive change and act on that. Managing emotions in decision-making is crucial for this—when emotions cloud judgment, it’s important to pause, assess the situation, and choose the best course of action, rather than reacting impulsively.

7. Exclusion vs. Inclusion in Societal Contexts:

There’s a segment where the conversation turns to societal issues, discussing how some ideologies or belief systems can be exclusionary, while others seek broader inclusion. It highlights that focusing too much on one cause or ideology can be counterproductive, leading to division rather than progress. The example of religious and political dynamics in India is used to emphasize the importance of recognizing multiple perspectives and working with other groups to advocate for shared interests, rather than clinging to narrow viewpoints.

8. Strategic Leadership and Influence:

The speaker suggests that in both personal and professional settings, especially in leadership roles, one must act strategically to manage crises, build alliances, and influence others. This is reflected in how Krishna interacts with the Pandavas, helping them navigate the challenges they face. Leaders need to make decisions that benefit the larger community, recognizing that actions often have ripple effects.

9. Practical Takeaways:

The speaker reflects on personal struggles, particularly the challenge of making decisions under emotional pressure. The advice given is to focus on what’s actionable, not on the noise of extraneous causes, and to manage emotions by recognizing them but not allowing them to control decisions. Understanding that God or a higher power may already be working in ways that are unseen is also a key takeaway: when we do our part, we trust that the larger plan will unfold.

The overarching message is about strategic decision-making, recognizing the interconnectedness of causes and effects, and managing emotions for better outcomes. It encourages individuals to focus on practical solutions and to understand the complex, dynamic nature of life’s challenges. The conversation ties back to Krishna’s wisdom in the Bhagavad Gita, suggesting that we too can learn to act wisely and strategically by reflecting on our strengths, managing our emotions, and focusing on what’s most constructive in any given moment.

If you’re dealing with complex decisions or emotional reactions, it’s helpful to apply the principle of identifying the “actionable cause” and focusing your energy on solutions that can lead to real, positive change.

Thankyou very much…

The post Krishna Charitra Series by HG Chaitanya Charan Prabhuji – Part 3 – Lord Krishna in Kurukshetra appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

Spiritual Discourse: Krishna’s Journey to Mathura and Lessons in Devotion

Thank you all for coming today. It seems there are always challenges that arise during our gatherings, but your patience and determination are truly appreciated. As Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, “Yatantash cha dridhavratah”—those who strive with determination will achieve their goals.

Today, we will discuss Lord Krishna’s entry into Mathura, focusing on the 31st verse of the text. Before we begin, let us recite:

Chant:
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

Krishna’s Arrival in Mathura
When Krishna entered Mathura on Akrura’s chariot, the entire city was filled with excitement. The residents, known as Pauris (those residing in the city), welcomed Krishna with great enthusiasm, chanting “Jai Jai!” despite the presence of Kamsa, the tyrant ruler.

This moment demonstrates how even in the face of fear and oppression, devotion and reverence can triumph. The people of Mathura recognized Krishna’s divinity, celebrating his arrival as a blessing, even under Kamsa’s shadow.

Faith and Devotion vs. Ritual and Manipulation
The qualities of a Brahmin are described in the Bhagavad Gita. These include faith in scripture (Shraddha), belief in higher powers (Astikya), and adherence to the Vedic tradition. However, there is a distinction between religion as a system of rituals and true devotion (bhakti).

Religion, in many cases, is about manipulating nature through rituals to fulfill desires. For example:

• Performing sacrifices for rain or prosperity.
• Following precise rituals to achieve specific outcomes.

While such practices can be seen as a form of technology, devotion is fundamentally different. In devotion, the mood is one of surrender:
“Aham tu akhantah tava bhaktah”—”I am your eternal servant, and you are my eternal Lord.”

In contrast, figures like Hiranyakashipu and Kamsa exemplify the manipulative approach. Hiranyakashipu sought immortality through clever loopholes in Brahma’s boon, but Krishna, being the master of all, found ways to outmaneuver his manipulations. Similarly, Kamsa worshipped the goddess (Devi) devoutly, yet his motives were self-serving.

Lessons from Kamsa’s Encounter with Devi
When the goddess emerged from Devaki’s womb, Kamsa was stunned. He had expected to kill the Ashtam Garbha (eighth child) but found himself face-to-face with a divine manifestation. This moment of unexpected divinity confused and unsettled him.

Kamsa’s inability to process this event shows the limitations of material intelligence and the futility of opposing divine will. His confusion also highlights how even the most calculated plans can be undone by the divine.

Devotion as the Path to Liberation
True devotion arises when one surrenders unconditionally, acknowledging the supremacy of the divine. While rituals and practices have their place, they must lead to a deeper understanding and connection with God. As Krishna demonstrates through his lilas (divine pastimes), it is love, faith, and surrender that ultimately bring liberation (moksha).

Let us end with the following verse, which encapsulates the mood of surrender and devotion:

Tathāso e jayasītabhāshī, Govinda Dāmodara Mādhaveti.

May we all strive to cultivate true devotion in our hearts, aligning ourselves with the eternal truth that Krishna represents.

Hare Krishna!

Kamsa’s Ego, Actions, and Downfall: A Spiritual Discourse

Kamsa is portrayed as a tyrannical and ego-driven ruler whose actions were dictated by fear and a desire to prove his superiority, even over the devatas (demigods). This discourse explores the interplay of his insecurities, manipulative actions, and eventual downfall.

The Nature of Apologies and Kamsa’s Justifications

When people apologize, the sincerity of the apology often determines its impact. However, if an apology is followed by excuses—“I’m sorry, but…”—it loses its genuineness. This is akin to offering an apology with one hand and taking it back with the other. Kamsa, too, uses justifications to rationalize his heinous actions, such as killing innocent babies and his own nephews.

Kamsa believed everything was controlled by fate (Ashtam or destiny). When confronted, he looked at Vasudeva and repeated the argument: “Everything is controlled by Ashtam, so if your children are killed, it is inevitable. Forgive me—it was destined.”

Kamsa’s Reaction to the Goddess

When the goddess appeared after the birth of the eighth child, Kamsa was stunned. She mocked him, saying, “You fool, the one who will kill you has already been born elsewhere.” This shook Kamsa, as he realized the prophecy was still valid. Initially, he sought to make amends by releasing Vasudeva and Devaki, but his paranoia returned. Fearing for his life, he ordered the mass killing of children across the land.

Kamsa sent demons like Putana and others to Vrindavan to eliminate Krishna. However, each attempt failed, and the demons met their demise at Krishna’s hands. Reports of Krishna’s extraordinary feats, such as slaying demons, reached Mathura. Despite his confidence, Kamsa began to sense that something was amiss in Vrindavan.

Lessons from Ravana and Kamsa’s Mistakes

Both Ravana and Kamsa, despite their power and cunning, made critical errors due to their ego. Ravana, in Lanka, had the advantage of home territory and a powerful army, yet he sent his generals and brothers one by one to fight. Similarly, Kamsa placed overconfidence in his demons, believing each could defeat Krishna individually. This piecemeal strategy led to their systematic failure.

Kamsa’s ego further clouded his judgment. Some devotees wonder why he kept Vasudeva and Devaki together instead of separating them to prevent the birth of the eighth child. The answer lies in Kamsa’s pride. Having already defeated the devatas, Kamsa wanted to falsify their prophecy by killing the child himself. He believed this would undermine people’s faith in the devatas and elevate his power as supreme.

Kamsa’s Desperation and Krishna’s Arrival in Mathura

As more of his demons fell to Krishna, Kamsa realized he could no longer rely on others. He decided to summon Krishna to Mathura, believing he could eliminate the boy himself. To achieve this, he used cunning tactics. Like Duryodhana sending Vidura to invite Yudhishthira to the infamous dice game, Kamsa sent Akrura, a respected figure, to bring Krishna to Mathura. Krishna, out of respect for Akrura, agreed to come.

From Vrindavan’s perspective, Krishna was leaving for the first time. However, texts by acharyas (spiritual teachers) like Jiva Goswami explain that Krishna has dual manifestations—Vasudeva Krishna in Mathura and Vrindavan Krishna. This duality emphasizes that Krishna exists simultaneously in different forms and places.

Mathura’s Reaction and Kamsa’s Envy

In Mathura, the people’s reaction to Krishna’s arrival was overwhelming. Despite Kamsa’s oppressive rule, many Mathuravasis celebrated Krishna’s entry with joy and chants of “Jai Jai!” However, not everyone openly showed their devotion out of fear of Kamsa. Tyrants like Kamsa may command people’s actions but rarely win their hearts.

When the wrestling match began, the crowd’s cheers for Krishna far surpassed those for Kamsa’s wrestlers. This enraged Kamsa, further fueling his hatred and insecurity. His inability to win the hearts of his subjects mirrored his ultimate failure as a ruler and as a person.

Kamsa’s Ego vs. Krishna’s Divinity

Kamsa’s downfall was rooted in his ego and his futile attempts to control the inevitable. His belief that he could outwit destiny led him to underestimate Krishna. Despite his intelligence and cunning, Kamsa’s decisions were driven by fear and pride, which blinded him to the divine nature of Krishna.

In contrast, Krishna’s actions embody humility, love, and divine purpose. Through his lilas (pastimes), Krishna shows that no amount of manipulation, cunning, or force can prevail over devotion and truth.

Conclusion
The story of Kamsa serves as a timeless lesson on the dangers of ego, the futility of opposing divine will, and the power of devotion. As Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, “Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam vraja”—surrender unto me alone, and I shall deliver you from all sin. Kamsa’s refusal to surrender led to his destruction, while Krishna’s devotees found liberation and joy.

Let us take inspiration from these teachings and strive to cultivate humility and devotion in our lives.

Hare Krishna!

Now Kamsa had made multiple arrangements to ensure Krishna’s defeat. His first plan involved the deadly elephant, Kuvalayapida, positioned strategically at the entrance to prevent Krishna’s advance. However, Krishna effortlessly outmaneuvered the elephant. Displaying remarkable skill, he dodged Kuvalayapida’s charges, broke off its tusks, and used them as weapons to defeat the beast—humiliating Kamsa even further. It was as if Krishna was demonstrating his dominance by defeating the enemy using its own strength.

With the elephant slain, Krishna moved on to the wrestling arena, where Kamsa had arranged a match with professional wrestlers. Initially, Krishna and Balarama appeared reluctant, pointing out that they were mere boys, untrained in wrestling, while the opponents were experienced professionals. However, Kamsa insisted on the match proceeding. What ensued was nothing short of spectacular.

The crowd initially perceived the contest as unfair, as Krishna and Balarama faced off against opponents much larger and more skilled. But as the battle progressed, Krishna and Balarama defeated the wrestlers one by one. Despite the strategic advantage wrestlers usually have in exhausting their opponent through successive matches, Krishna showed no signs of fatigue, defeating each rival effortlessly. The spectators were awestruck, and their cheers grew louder with each victory, defying Kamsa’s oppressive rule.

For a tyrant like Kamsa, the growing cheers for Krishna were intolerable. Fear and respect are the pillars of a tyrant’s power, and seeing his people lose their fear enraged him. Unable to tolerate this public humiliation, Kamsa snapped. He ordered his soldiers to arrest Nanda, Vasudeva, and all those cheering for Krishna. He even commanded the destruction of Gokul. This reckless abuse of power marked Kamsa’s descent into panic and desperation.

At this point, Krishna decided enough was enough. He leaped onto the raised platform where Kamsa sat. Kamsa, armed with a sword, was prepared to defend himself, but Krishna’s speed was blinding. Before Kamsa could react, Krishna overpowered him, dragged him down into the wrestling arena, and dealt the final blow. The once-feared tyrant was defeated in mere moments, with no chance to retaliate. The ease with which Krishna vanquished Kamsa was almost anticlimactic, showcasing Krishna’s unmatched power.

This victory wasn’t just a personal triumph for Krishna but a dramatic statement to the people of Mathura. Krishna, previously an unknown element from a small village, had come to the city and effortlessly defeated its most powerful and feared ruler. The Mathura-vāsīs were filled with pride and relief, celebrating Krishna as their savior.

Krishna, however, displayed remarkable humility even in victory. Instead of claiming the crown for himself, he took it from Kamsa’s lifeless body and placed it on the head of Ugrasena, Kamsa’s father, who was the rightful king. This act of respect and humility won over the hearts of everyone present. True greatness, Krishna demonstrated, lies in using power for good while remaining humble.

The Yadavas, overjoyed by Kamsa’s defeat, urged Krishna to accept his place as Vasudeva’s son and stay in Mathura. However, Krishna firmly identified himself as a Vrajavāsi, the son of Nanda and Yashoda. He insisted that his place was with the people of Gokul, rejecting the notion of royal lineage.

This episode not only solidified Krishna’s reputation as a protector and hero but also served as a profound lesson in leadership. Krishna’s actions underscored the importance of humility, the power of justice, and the courage to stand against tyranny. The celebrations that followed were not just for the defeat of Kamsa but for the dawn of a new era of hope and righteousness in Mathura.

In some ways, the Yadavas have been portrayed as the ones who keep Krishna from returning to Vrindavana. When it comes to convincing Krishna to stay, it isn’t Vasudeva alone who takes the lead; rather, the collective Yadavas express their concerns. They approach Krishna with a pragmatic argument:

They say, “Krishna, you have saved us from Kamsa, but if you leave now, we will be in even greater danger. Kamsa’s allies will seek revenge, and at the same time, other ambitious kings may see an opportunity to seize power in the absence of Kamsa. Without you, we will face attacks from both Kamsa’s supporters and his enemies. You must stay here to protect us.”

Krishna cannot deny the gravity of their concerns. He recognizes the risks they face and feels responsible for ensuring their safety. This puts Krishna in a difficult position—his heart yearns to return to Vrindavana and reunite with the Vrajavasis, yet his duty compels him to stay in Mathura.

The burden of explaining this to the Vrajavasis falls upon Krishna himself. This is no easy task, as the Vrajavasis are deeply attached to Krishna, and the fear of separation weighs heavily on them. The younger Gopis, in particular, express their emotions with a striking urgency. Despite the conservative culture of their time, which would typically demand modesty, they cast aside all shyness and rush out to stop Krishna from leaving. Their fear of losing Krishna is so overpowering that they abandon societal norms entirely.

In contrast, Yashoda’s emotions are expressed more subtly, but they run just as deep. Her concern is not just the fear of separation from Krishna but also anxiety for his safety. She knows Kamsa’s reputation as a cruel and dangerous ruler—one who has even imprisoned his own father. The Rajavasis are aware of Kamsa’s ruthlessness, and this makes Yashoda worry endlessly about the dangers Krishna might face in Mathura.

However, the Rajavasis seem largely unaware that Kamsa has been sending demons to Gokul with the sole purpose of killing Krishna. If they had known this, they would never have agreed to let Krishna go. To them, Krishna’s departure to Mathura was framed as an innocent invitation. Akurura had conveyed Kamsa’s message as an official royal request for Krishna to participate in a wrestling match. He had said, “Your son is renowned for his strength and skills. This is an invitation from the king—how can it be declined?” It was presented as a matter of duty and honor, leaving Nanda and the others little choice but to allow Krishna to go.

For the Vrajavasis, however, the pain of separation from Krishna outweighs any sense of obligation or duty. Their hearts are consumed by the fear that Krishna may never return. While the younger Gopis are overt in their distress, Yashoda’s grief is quieter but no less intense. She worries not only about the separation but also about the perils Krishna might face in Kamsa’s court.

Krishna, too, is torn between his love for the Vrajavasis and his sense of responsibility toward the Yadavas. As much as his heart longs to return to Vrindavana, he knows that for now, he must remain in Mathura. Yet, even as he stays, Krishna’s thoughts remain with the Vrajavasis, and he resolves to fulfill his duty while finding a way to bring solace to the hearts of those who love him so dearly.

Let’s recite this. You know that such a thing will never happen again. She is in her inner chamber, crying. She is inside her chamber, tears streaming down her face. She is crying endlessly, overwhelmed by emotion.

Krishna, too, is experiencing a deep inner turmoil. He is in tears, singing a song to express his sorrow. Krishna is crying, filled with a mix of divine power and human vulnerability.

In a way, Krishna is caught in the middle of a custody battle. When a wife is separated from her child, both sides fight for possession, but here, the conflict is not solely over the child. The child must communicate to both parties. Krishna is omnipotent, but in this situation, he must also navigate his role as the beloved child of the Vrajavasis. He must speak to them both, but also maintain his own dignity.

At that moment, when Krishna finally speaks, Lata Maharaj sees him. Just by looking at Krishna’s expression, he can tell that Krishna has been struggling to contain his emotions. “What happened?” Lata Maharaj asks. “Why are you so upset? You should be celebrating. What’s wrong with you?”

Krishna, sensing the underlying tension, responds. He shares his fear, acknowledging that something bad might happen. Lata Maharaj, with a sarcastic laugh, replies, “It’s our fortune that the great ones claim what is ours, not theirs. Fine, if they want you to stay here, then we will all stay with you.”

Krishna responds with a firm refusal. “You cannot stay here. We are humans, and we must tend to our cows. Our herds have grown so large that there is no grazing land left for them.”

Lata Maharaj, trying to make light of the situation, says, “Then I will come to stay with you.”

But Krishna, with a sorrowful tone, says, “No, you cannot come. I have made many enemies, and if they find out how dear you are to me, they will attack you to hurt me. I cannot protect both you and my people. Let the world think that I have no attachment to you anymore. Let them believe I stayed only because my father was in prison. Once he regained power and came back, I returned to my duties. Let them think I have no further connection to you.”

Those words strike Nandamaraj deeply. His heart trembles at the thought that Krishna might truly feel detached from him. “How long will this last?” he asks.

Krishna reassures him, “Just wait until I finish dealing with the demons. Then I will return.”

“Okay,” Nandamaraj replies, though his heart is heavy with grief. “Send the sentient beings as your messengers. They should not appear as messengers from Krishna.”

Krishna returns to Mathura, and Nandamaraj, with a heart full of sorrow, goes back, feeling the weight of this painful separation.

When we live in a community, we interact with different people, each with their own expectations. We must act with the right emotion in each situation. For example, when a mother is with her young child and there is a moment of fear, the child might say, “Mom, I’m scared,” but if the mother responds with fear, too, it will not help the child. The mother must show strength and calm to comfort the child.

In the same way, Krishna, though divine, must navigate his human relationships with care, balancing his divine duties and his love for those in Vrindavana.

Even though the mother might have her own emotions, she must suppress them in order to comfort and pacify the child. In a similar way, Krishna is overwhelmed with grief, but now he must act with responsibility.

What does Krishna do at this moment? He draws closer to those around him and begins to speak. He demonstrates something extraordinary in his actions. As I mentioned earlier, in the Bhan Leela (the Vrindavan Leela), the focus is mostly on relationships. Most of Krishna’s actions there are not necessarily inevitable, and there are not many clear life lessons we can draw from them. It’s possible to do so, but it is a bit more challenging. However, when Krishna is in Mathura, he shows a different attitude and begins to demonstrate profound wisdom.

When Krishna is with his parents, they are likely filled with mixed emotions. After being separated for so long, they might feel a sense of sorrow that Krishna, who couldn’t protect them, is now returning. Sometimes, when a child is given away for some reason, and grows attached to other people or places, they may return to their biological parents and feel distant, even resentful. They might question why they were abandoned, just as Karna does when he speaks of Kunti. He argues that she abandoned him, so why should he go back to her? This is a reasonable argument. But in Karna’s case, his return isn’t just about reuniting with his mother—it’s about understanding the larger context of his abandonment.

In Krishna’s case, when his parents see him, they may feel guilt or regret. Krishna speaks to them, acknowledging the hardships they have endured because of him. He explains that, because of his birth, they have witnessed the death of many of their children. A child is meant to serve and protect the parents, but even before he was born, he had already caused them grief. After his birth, he went away, and their suffering continued. Yet, now that Kamsa is dead, Krishna can finally fulfill his duty to them.

Whatever feelings of guilt or remorse Krishna may have had are completely removed by his sweet words and his actions. This is similar to the way Bhishma responds when Arjuna expresses guilt over the destruction caused by the war. Bhishma, seeing Arjuna’s sorrow, reassures him by saying, “You are Dharma’s son. You are the son of righteousness. Yet you have had to suffer so much.” This completely changes the dynamic of their conversation and dispels the feeling of guilt.

Krishna does the same with his life—by his actions, he helps those who have suffered. For instance, Krishna arranges for Bhishma’s sons to return to their rightful place, fulfilling his mother’s desire to offer her best to her children. She, like many mothers, wishes the best for her children, and Krishna fulfills that wish.

By this time, Krishna has long passed the age of breastfeeding—he’s now almost 10 years old. But through mystical means, Krishna fulfills the desires of his mother, Devaki, by providing the care and affection she missed when he was younger. He offers her the fulfillment of raising him, even though he has grown beyond infancy.

This is also when Krishna arranges for Subhadra to return, although the details of her whereabouts are not elaborated here. The key point is that Krishna gives back to his parents everything they had lost. He not only returns to them, but also provides more than they ever expected.

Despite these acts of kindness, Krishna himself is in great pain. He longs for the love and affection he left behind in Vrindavana. He is like a child whose family was taken away and given heavy responsibilities to bear. While he strives to fulfill his duties, he still feels the ache of separation.

Devaki, on one side, is overjoyed to have Krishna back. But what she doesn’t fully notice is that while she showers Krishna with affection, he, in turn, doesn’t seem entirely comfortable with her. This is important. Sometimes, adults act like children—moody, emotionally unbalanced, throwing tantrums, which can be unappealing. On the other hand, when children take on the qualities of adults and assume responsibility, it is admirable.

But as parents, you don’t want your children to miss out on the experience of childhood. Sometimes, life can be difficult, and children are forced to grow up very quickly because they have to shoulder a lot of responsibility.

Krishna is putting on a brave face, but it’s clear that he’s not completely comfortable. He isn’t behaving like a child with Devaki, which is understandable. That’s when he calls Rohini back. He thinks that Rohini can be a source of constancy in his life. Children need some stability, especially if their parents’ circumstances keep changing. If children have to move from one school to another, or from one home to another, it can be very difficult for them. Krishna’s environment has changed completely, with a shift in the people around him. It’s not just Vasudev and Devaki anymore, but the other Yadus who surround him.

The Yadus don’t hate Vrindavan or want Krishna to forget it. However, they fear that Krishna might leave them and return to Vrindavan, and they want Krishna to stay with them for their protection. Whenever Krishna mentions Vrindavan, they disapprove, not wanting to lose him. Krishna, not wanting to displease them, avoids discussing Vrindavan.

At this point, Vasudev thinks that at least Rohini will be a constant presence for Krishna. Of course, there is one more constant for Krishna—who is that? Balaram. Balaram is still a child, but the Yadus and the Vrindavasis know that Balaram is Vasudev’s son. They don’t fear that Balaram will go back to Vrindavan or leave them. Since Balaram is still a child, his words don’t carry as much weight in these matters.

When Rohini arrives, Krishna and Balaram run to embrace her and pour out their hearts to her. Rohini, in turn, expresses her love for them. She talks to them about how much the Vrindavasis love Krishna and how much Krishna loves them. The Yadus, however, respond, “You are meant to be on our side, not theirs! What do the Vrindavasis do for you? Do they feed you sweets to make you forget where you belong?” Rohini is caught in the middle, unable to speak further on the matter.

During this time, Krishna and Balaram are always very close to each other, but with so many gopas around, they remain close companions. It is also at this time that Krishna makes one more friend. Can we discuss Uddhava and leave it for tomorrow, or should we address it now?

How many of you have questions at this point? Okay, one, two, three, four. We can try to discuss Uddhava as well, since he is in Varka. We’ll cover this more when we talk about Varka.

To summarize what we discussed: We talked about two main relationships. One was Krishna’s relationship with Kamsa, where Kamsa’s ego drove him to want to kill Krishna. Kamsa’s pride and fear of losing power were at the core of his actions, and he couldn’t accept the possibility of his downfall. We also touched on Krishna’s relationship with others and the emotional challenges he faces as he grows older and navigates the complexities of being both a child and a protector.

We discussed how religion and science were very similar at that time, didn’t we? Both involve tapping into a higher power and the purposeful manipulation of forces.

Now, what Krishna does is not just defeat Kamsa; he demolishes his ego as well. Krishna kills effortlessly, destroying all the demons he encounters and removing every obstacle in his path. The anti-climax comes when Kamsa is killed. But this anti-climax is actually fitting, as it culminates in Krishna’s dramatic entry, showing how someone who was meant to instill terror in the whole universe is no match for him. Krishna doesn’t just kill Kamsa—he destroys the ego that was building Kamsa’s power.

Then, we move on to Krishna’s relationship with Vasudev and Devaki. We also discuss the Yadus, who act as unnamed villains in an emotional sense. They don’t understand Krishna’s actions or his pattern. Krishna, like a child who is not acting like an adult, pacifies the situation, sending the Maharajani back to her story. He has to be the adult now.

Krishna respects his parents in such a way that instead of making them feel guilty for abandoning him, he takes on that guilt himself. He wins their hearts and fulfills their desires. All the pain that Devaki has gone through is healed when Krishna brings her sons back, fulfilling her heart’s desire. Vasudev sees what is happening, and Devaki joins him in this moment of reconciliation.

This is also the time when Krishna and Balaram grow closer. They are the only two who are regularly present, and this gives Krishna the opportunity to talk openly.

Finally, we will discuss how Krishna deals with the world and what happens in Dwarka in our next session.

Are there any questions? Please raise your hand.

Audience Question: D. Krishnamurthy: In the Bhagavata, sometimes we read that when Krishna kills a demon, they go to the spiritual world, and sometimes we read that they go to Brahma Jyoti. Could you clarify this?

Answer: It depends on the context. Generally, the Bhagavad Gita focuses on Krishna’s special merciful potency. As a devotee of Krishna, regardless of your past actions, contact with Krishna purifies you. Even demons, when they come into Krishna’s presence, are purified. Some demons might be punished for their sins, but Krishna’s mercy transforms them. The Bhagavad Gita emphasizes that connection with Krishna, no matter the individual’s background or motive, brings purification.

For example, not all the gopis were pure devotees—some were divine beings (Deva Kanyas, Apsaras) who were attracted to Krishna’s beauty. Through this attraction, they became purified. The point is, Krishna’s presence is so powerful that it purifies anyone, regardless of their initial state.

The focus of the Bhagavad Gita is not just about the destination of the demons but about Krishna’s mercy. The demon’s destination may vary, but Krishna’s mercy purifies them. We should focus more on the mercy of Krishna rather than the specifics of where the demons end up.

In the tradition of Rupa Goswami, the focus is on serving Krishna and pleasing him. For instance, the calculation of liberation, like in the case of Ramanicharya, might be seen as selfish knowledge. The real goal is to serve Krishna, not just to seek liberation through him. While the demons might go to the spiritual world or Brahma Jyoti after coming into Krishna’s presence, the point is the purification that occurs through Krishna’s contact.

Ultimately, whether the demons go to the spiritual world or Brahma Jyoti depends on their background, but the point of the Bhagavad Gita is to emphasize the incredible mercy of Krishna. When a person connects with Krishna, they are purified, no matter their history.

Say, if someone goes to the spiritual world but doesn’t have love for Krishna, then they enter the spiritual world where everyone is constantly talking about Krishna. They might wonder, “What’s the latest cricket match?” The desire for Krishna cannot be forced upon anyone. What Krishna can do, however, is magnify a small desire. If someone has a tiny attraction to Krishna, Krishna can reveal his attractiveness in such a splendid way that their small desire can grow. But that small desire must come from us, or at least some expression of it.

For example, Uttara, when she first saw Krishna, may have thought, “This is a sweet baby; I want to feed him.” That thought was fleeting, but at least it was there for a moment. It was a minor desire, even though it was overshadowed by other, more prominent thoughts. Still, because there was even a small desire, she eventually became a nurse in the spiritual world.

Similarly, demons who have some attraction, appreciation, or service attitude towards Krishna can go to Krishna’s abode and become his associates. However, those who have no such desire will be cleansed and go to Brahmajyoti, which is a state of neutrality, for further purification.

Krishna is merciful, but He is not forceful. He does not override the soul’s freedom. If a soul does not have a desire to be with Krishna, Krishna won’t force that person. When Krishna was in Vrindavan, Yashoda and Nanda had no idea that Krishna was the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They were full of love and affection for Him, thinking of Him simply as their child. Even though Krishna performed many miracles, they were oblivious to His divine identity.

When Krishna entered Mathura, Yashoda and Nanda did not instantly recognize that He was the Supreme Lord. However, when they eventually understood Krishna’s true nature, it was not necessary for them to stop treating Him as their child. Their parental love was so deep that it transcended the understanding of Krishna as the Supreme Being.

Even when someone knows Krishna is God, it’s not always at the forefront of their consciousness. For example, Arjuna, even though he knows Krishna is God, primarily relates to Him in a friendly manner. The same applies to the residents of Vrindavan. While they may be aware of Krishna’s divinity, their primary relationship with Him is based on parental love or friendship, not as the Supreme Lord.

This is also seen in the case of Devaki. When she first saw Krishna in His four-armed form, she offered prayers to Him. But towards the end, she prayed, “Please take your ordinary form, my child.” This maternal mood is dominant, even when Krishna reveals His divine form. The mood of service and parental affection takes precedence over the awareness of Krishna’s supreme status. Devaki felt it was her duty to protect Krishna, not the other way around.

Similarly, when Prabhupada came to build the Juhu temple, his prayer was not for Krishna to help him build the temple for his own sake. Instead, his prayer was, “Please tolerate staying in this simple place until the temple is built.” Prabhupada’s attitude was that he wanted to serve Krishna, not ask Krishna to serve him. Even though Prabhupada may have sought Krishna’s help at times, his overall mood was to serve Krishna.

Audience Question: “Prabhu ji, you have mentioned that there are two Krishnas born—one is in Mathura (Vasudev Krishna) and the other is in Vrindavan (Yashoda Krishna). Could you clarify this further?”

I also heard this in some other lectures from our own parampara, but what I want to check with you is, as far as my understanding goes, this is not mentioned anywhere in the Bhagavata. Please correct me if I am wrong. Is there any reference to this particular episode where two Krishnas are born, and it is said that Vasudeva Krishna is attracted to Yashoda Krishna and merges with him? Can you please enlighten us on this?

To some extent, the bhakti tradition is an honorable one. Krishna is mentioned in the Bhagavata literature, but He is described in much greater detail in the Puranas. Krishna’s activities are detailed even more in the writings of various Acharyas. In that sense, this is an honorable tradition. Krishna is not static; He is ecstatic.

Jiva Goswami, for instance, refers to more sources than others. He talks about different episodes, including one where Krishna is born in Mathura. But there’s also a reference to Krishna being born in Gokula and Vrindavan. Some argue that the Gopis might be ignorant of Krishna’s divinity, which is why they see Krishna as an ordinary person, but later, the Gopis acknowledge that Krishna is not just the son of Devaki, but the Supreme Lord Himself.

In the Gopi Gita, the Gopis don’t just pray as Gopis, but as souls who are deeply aware of Krishna’s true nature. They express their love in the mood of Madhuri Mahabhava, which indicates that they are aware of Krishna’s divinity and are still deeply attracted to Him.

Now, regarding the question of whether Vasudeva Krishna is attracted to Vrindavan Krishna, it’s true that Vrindavan Krishna has a unique and intimate connection with the Gopis. However, this particular pastime may not be explicitly mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita. But the Bhagavad Gita does discuss how Mahavishnu is attracted to Krishna. So, in that sense, this reference might not be unreasonable.

The understanding that I find most reasonable, though there might be other interpretations, is as follows: When Vasudeva Krishna is carried across the Yamuna by Vasudeva, the baby Krishna falls into the river. Vasudeva is frantic, wondering what has happened. Then, it’s said that Vasudeva Krishna enters the Yamuna and merges with the river. After this, Krishna is taken back to the maternity ward.

There are various ways to understand how this happened. One possibility is that two children were born, and one child was taken by Vasudeva, while the other remained with Yashoda. In another explanation, Vasudeva Krishna merges with Vrindavan Krishna as he enters the Yamuna and then returns to Vrindavan.

Some commentators suggest that when Krishna returns to Vrindavan, He does so in an unmanifested form. His divine presence becomes apparent later when He appears with Akrura. It’s also mentioned that Krishna and Balarama are Vishnu and Ananda Shesha in the water, and Vrindavan Krishna merges with the river before returning.

While the specifics of this event are difficult to piece together precisely, it’s important to note that each Acharya offers a unique perspective. The comments from different Acharyas should be harmonized, and we have to piece together the puzzle from various sources.

Thank you.

If there are any other questions, we can continue tomorrow. We’ll discuss this further then.

Thank you very much.

Shri Krishna Bhagwan Ki Jai!

The post Krishna Charitra Series by HG Chaitanya Charan Prabhuji – Part 2 – Lord Krishna in Mathura appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

Everybody, in their own way, recognizes the unique bond a parent has with their child at any given moment. Yet, at times, no one truly understands the depth of what is unfolding. In the story of Krishna, Yashoda’s journey as a mother begins with an extraordinary event—Krishna being placed in her care. From the first moment she sees him, his divine qualities are evident. Descriptions of Krishna often highlight his large, expressive eyes and his radiant presence, traits that made him both enchanting and unique.

As a mother, Yashoda’s primary focus is to protect and nurture Krishna. However, Krishna’s mischievous nature and the constant dangers surrounding him amplify her maternal anxiety. It seems as though Krishna attracts danger, and danger, in turn, seeks him out. This duality becomes a source of perpetual worry for Yashoda, whose primary emotion is maternal love, interwoven with anxiety—an inevitable part of being a mother.

From Krishna’s early years, Yashoda struggles to ensure his safety. Even when she leaves him in the perceived safety of their home, unexpected events occur. For example, someone might appear to be a kind and gentle woman, but her intentions could bring harm. Such instances make Yashoda hyper-vigilant, constantly on edge and protective of Krishna. She begins to realize that Krishna’s extraordinary nature brings both wonder and peril.

Yashoda’s anxiety peaks in moments when Krishna faces direct danger. One such event involves a storm that separates Krishna from her. In the chaos, she frantically searches for him, only to be told by other gopis that Krishna is in the sky—being carried by a demon. For Krishna, it might be a joyful adventure, but for Yashoda, it’s a moment of utter devastation and fear.

The villagers of Vrindavan, or the Vrajvasis, also share Yashoda’s confusion and concern. They live simple lives, abiding by their duties and causing no trouble. Yet, they find themselves facing inexplicable threats. From the Vrajvasis’ perspective, these dangers are incomprehensible, adding to their collective anxiety.

Krishna’s life is often divided into three phases, each marked by unique relationships and experiences. The first five years, known as the “Kaumara” stage, are particularly significant for parental bonding. During this phase, Krishna is the center of his parents’ universe, and vice versa. The next phase, from six to ten years, is the “Pauganda” stage, where Krishna begins forming friendships and exploring the world outside. This period brings new adventures and challenges, as the demons that once entered the village now wait outside, creating constant unease for Yashoda.

Yashoda’s love for Krishna is so profound that even small incidents become sources of immense worry. For instance, she might place Krishna under a cart for safety, only to find danger lurking even there. Krishna’s mischievous nature often leads to unexpected situations, such as dragging a mortar and causing a giant tree to fall. For any mother, such incidents would be terrifying. Yet, Yashoda’s love remains unwavering, and her devotion only deepens with each challenge.

One of the most tumultuous moments for Yashoda is the Damodara Leela, where she ties Krishna to a mortar to discipline him. Despite her efforts to keep him safe, Krishna uses the situation to demonstrate his divine power, uprooting trees and creating a scene that leaves everyone in awe and bewilderment. For Yashoda, this incident is not just a display of Krishna’s divinity but also a reminder of her constant struggle to balance her love, worry, and the extraordinary nature of her child.

Through all these challenges, Yashoda’s immersion in Krishna’s life becomes complete. Her thoughts, actions, and emotions revolve entirely around him. This maternal devotion, filled with love and anxiety, illustrates the depth of her bond with Krishna. Even in moments of mischief, such as Krishna denying he stole butter while his face is covered in it, Yashoda sees the sweetness and innocence that define her child.

No, sometimes someone is a liar, but they are such a poor liar that their lying becomes sweet. When we love someone, we tend to love everything about them—even their flaws. So, when Krishna lies, it endears him to Mother Yashoda. Yet, at the same time, she feels concerned.

Acharyas like Ananda describe why Mother Yashoda decides to tie Krishna up at a particular time. Krishna’s butter-stealing can be seen in two distinct phases. Initially, Krishna steals butter at home. While this mischief is manageable and even amusing to Yashoda, it doesn’t cause her much anxiety. However, Krishna soon begins venturing outside the home, stealing butter from the homes of others in Vrindavan. This shift makes Yashoda increasingly worried.

Her concern is both practical and emotional. Vrindavan is a small place, and Yashoda imagines Krishna’s future. He will grow up, and one day he will need to get married. She worries, If Krishna gets a reputation as a thief, who will agree to marry their daughter to him? Yashoda often wonders, If Krishna wants butter, why does he have to steal it? I can give him all the butter he desires!

This anxiety stems from her motherly love, while Krishna’s actions remain incomprehensible to her. Krishna’s butter-stealing seems playful to him, but to Yashoda, it’s both baffling and worrisome. There is an interesting parallel between ignorance and transcendence: Bharata describes that people completely absorbed in Krishna are blissful, just as those completely absorbed in Maya are blissful. It’s those in between who struggle. For example, a person deeply intoxicated might be unaware of their drunkenness and feel happy—until the hangover comes. Similarly, Krishna’s butter-stealing may seem incomprehensible to those who know only a little about him.

When European colonialists first came to India and saw murals and paintings of a small child stealing butter, they were confused. Who is this? they asked. This is God, came the response. The Europeans, accustomed to envisioning God as a wise old man with a long beard—an all-powerful figure casting judgment—found the idea of God as a mischievous, crawling child theologically incomprehensible and even blasphemous. How can God crawl on the ground? How can God steal? And why would God steal butter?

But Krishna’s butter-stealing is deeply symbolic. The butter represents the labor of love of the gopis. They churn milk with care and dedication, pouring their hearts into the process. When Krishna steals butter, he isn’t just taking food—he is taking the love they have poured into it. By doing so, Krishna draws closer to their hearts, deepening his sweet, loving relationship with them.

While Krishna’s playful mischief brings joy, Mother Yashoda knows that even love has its limits. As a parent, she must draw a line. She tells Krishna, You cannot steal—especially not from others’ homes! Her motherly discipline reflects her deep care for Krishna. In one of the most tender moments of their relationship, she ties Krishna to a mortar to teach him a lesson.

In ordinary circumstances, when we approach a court or a higher authority, we vow to tell the truth: I swear to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. However, in this case, Mother Yashoda is the only person who can boldly say to God himself, Speak the truth!

This is the exalted nature of Mother Yashoda’s love for Krishna. Because of her vatsalya rasa (maternal affection), her relationship with Krishna is filled with dual anxieties: first, the anxiety to protect Krishna from external dangers, and second, the anxiety to protect Krishna from himself.

When the sages tell her that Krishna is God, she dismisses it, saying, How can he be God? He can’t even control his senses! When he’s hungry, he steals butter. He’s not God; he’s just a sweet, mischievous child. Even when Krishna reveals his universal form to her, she momentarily sees it but immediately returns to seeing Krishna as her little child. For her, Krishna is not the Supreme Lord—he is simply her beloved son. And Krishna, too, hides his divine nature, allowing her to remain absorbed in her maternal love.

Mother Yashoda’s love is unique because it is rooted in complete absorption in Krishna as her child. Her vatsalya bhava is her service to Krishna, expressed through her constant concern for his well-being. She is anxious to protect him, whether it is from external dangers or from his own mischievous tendencies.

Srila Prabhupada once illustrated this with the example of his efforts to protect Krishna’s temples, especially during the struggles of the Juhu project. Just as Mother Yashoda protects Krishna in her home, devotees protect Krishna through their service. Prabhupada taught that this anxiety for Krishna’s service—whether it is in protecting his temple, his cows, or his devotees—is a central part of devotional life. He often said that when we serve Krishna with deep love, we may also feel anxiety, but this anxiety is transcendental because it keeps us absorbed in Krishna.

Mother Yashoda’s vatsalya rasa is characterized by her constant care and her worry for Krishna. She is always trying to shield him from harm while also correcting his mischievous actions. This flavor of maternal love is at the heart of her relationship with Krishna.

In the verse:

Uvāca Satyam Padahe Murāre
Govinda Nāmo Dharamādhavetī
Yadho Tadakto Navanītapindu
Niheya Shodhā Vijitip Sayanti

This describes Yashoda’s concern for Krishna and her deep immersion in caring for him.

Every morning, the gopas (cowherd boys) gather to call Krishna to join them in taking the cows to the forest for grazing. Despite being simple cowherds, they show immense responsibility in protecting the cows, embodying go raksha dharma (the duty of cow protection). The gopas may not be soldiers or warriors with weapons, but they carry their sticks and a strong sense of duty as they head to Krishna’s home, calling out:

Ānandamāritya!
(O Krishna, the embodiment of endless bliss!)

They lovingly urge him, Wake up, Krishna! It’s time to go! This sense of urgency and care reflects their affection and their unique bond with Krishna.

The verse’s repetition of “Ākāre” emphasizes immediacy. Here, Ākāre āsura doesn’t refer to demons but to the call of the gopas for Krishna to join them quickly. This playful interaction between Krishna and the gopas, along with the underlying responsibility for go raksha (cow protection), highlights the idyllic, loving, and devotional life of the Vrajavasis.

Mother Yashoda’s love, coupled with her anxiety for Krishna’s safety and her unwavering absorption in him, defines her exalted position in vatsalya rasa. Her concern for Krishna’s well-being, whether it is protecting him from danger or guiding him through his mischievous antics, is a testament to the deep love that transcends ordinary relationships and reflects the purest form of devotion.

So Krishna comes immediately, eager to join the gopas. It’s time to go out, to play, to protect, and to carry out their responsibilities. For the gopas, work is play, and play is work. This is the ultimate example of how deeply intertwined their daily duties and joy are in Krishna’s service. They are filled with eagerness and devotion as they stand outside Krishna’s home, calling to him:

Govinda! Ānandamāritya! (O Krishna, the embodiment of bliss!)
Ākāre āsura! (Come quickly!)

The gopas joyfully chant together, invoking Krishna with affection and excitement. They call him Govinda-Dāmodara-Mādhava, repeating his divine names with love. These names not only reflect Krishna’s pastimes but also their deep bond with him.

The chanting continues:
Govinda-Dāmodara-Mādhava!
Govinda-Dāmodara-Mādhava!

This repetition mirrors their devotion and enthusiasm as they invite Krishna to join them in their day’s adventure—taking the cows to graze and protecting them as part of their go-raksha dharma. Even though the gopas are simple cowherds without weapons, their sticks and sense of duty symbolize their readiness to serve and protect Krishna and the cows.

Their affection for Krishna, expressed through these sweet calls, reflects the loving life of Vrindavan, where every action is centered on Krishna and filled with devotion.

Everybody, in their own way, recognizes the unique bond a parent has with their child at any given moment. Yet, at times, no one truly understands the profound depth of what is unfolding in that relationship. This bond is especially poignant in the story of Krishna, where Yashoda’s journey as a mother begins with an extraordinary event—Krishna being placed in her care under miraculous circumstances. From the very first moment she sets her eyes on him, his divine qualities are evident and unmistakable. Descriptions of Krishna often highlight his large, expressive eyes, his radiant presence, and his enchanting demeanor, traits that set him apart and make him irresistibly unique.

Yashoda’s Maternal Journey

As a mother, Yashoda’s life revolves around protecting and nurturing Krishna. However, Krishna’s mischievous nature, coupled with the constant dangers that seem to follow him, amplifies her maternal anxiety. It feels as though Krishna’s divinity attracts peril as much as it does admiration. This duality becomes a continuous source of both joy and worry for Yashoda, whose maternal love is interwoven with anxiety—an inevitable aspect of her journey as Krishna’s mother.

From the earliest years of Krishna’s life, Yashoda struggles to ensure his safety. Even when she believes she has left him in the secure environment of their home, unexpected and mysterious events unfold. For example, a stranger might appear as a kind and gentle woman, but her intentions could be harmful. These incidents sharpen Yashoda’s maternal instincts, making her hyper-vigilant and deeply protective of Krishna. She begins to understand that Krishna’s extraordinary nature, while awe-inspiring, brings both wonder and peril in equal measure.

The Challenges of Protecting Krishna

Yashoda’s maternal anxiety reaches its peak during moments of direct danger to Krishna. One such event involves a violent storm that separates Krishna from her, plunging her into a state of frantic despair. Amid the chaos, she searches for him with unyielding determination, only to hear from the other gopis that Krishna is in the sky—being carried away by a demon. For Krishna, this may feel like an exhilarating adventure, but for Yashoda, it is a moment of sheer terror, a mother’s worst nightmare realized.

The villagers of Vrindavan, or the Vrajvasis, share in Yashoda’s confusion and concern. They live simple, peaceful lives, devoted to their daily duties and causing no harm to others. Yet, they find themselves inexplicably caught in the crossfire of divine events. For the Vrajvasis, the frequent threats that arise in their village are bewildering and add to their collective anxiety, deepening their admiration for Yashoda’s resilience and devotion.

Krishna’s Early Phases of Life

Krishna’s life is traditionally divided into three distinct phases, each characterized by unique relationships and milestones. The first five years, known as the “Kaumara” stage, are particularly significant for the bond between Krishna and his parents. During this phase, Krishna is the absolute center of Yashoda and Nanda Maharaja’s universe, and vice versa. The next phase, spanning six to ten years, is the “Pauganda” stage. In this period, Krishna begins to explore the world beyond his immediate family, forming deep friendships and engaging in adventures that bring both joy and new challenges. The demons that once infiltrated the village now lurk outside, waiting for opportunities, leaving Yashoda in a constant state of vigilance.

The Depth of Yashoda’s Love

Yashoda’s love for Krishna is so profound that even the smallest incidents become sources of immense worry for her. For example, she might place Krishna under a cart for what seems like added safety, only to find that danger lurks even there. Krishna’s mischievous and adventurous nature often leads to unforeseen events, such as when he drags a heavy mortar and causes a giant tree to fall. For any mother, such moments would be heart-stopping. Yet, for Yashoda, her love and devotion only deepen with each challenge, further solidifying her unshakable bond with her divine child.

One of the most iconic and tumultuous moments in their relationship is the Damodara Leela, where Yashoda ties Krishna to a mortar in an attempt to discipline him. Despite her efforts to safeguard him, Krishna uses the opportunity to demonstrate his divine power, uprooting trees and creating a scene that leaves everyone in awe and disbelief. For Yashoda, this event is not merely a display of Krishna’s divinity but a poignant reminder of the constant struggle to reconcile her deep love, overwhelming worry, and the extraordinary nature of her child.

Maternal Devotion and Misunderstandings

Through all these trials, Yashoda’s immersion in Krishna’s life becomes all-encompassing. Her thoughts, actions, and emotions revolve entirely around him, illustrating the unparalleled depth of her bond with her son. Even in moments of mischief, such as Krishna denying he stole butter while his face is covered in it, Yashoda sees the innocence and sweetness that define his character.

Sometimes, even a liar’s lies appear endearing when love is involved. When Krishna lies, it only makes him more endearing to Yashoda. Yet, it also heightens her concern. Acharyas like Ananda describe the reasons behind Yashoda’s decision to discipline Krishna at certain times. For instance, Krishna’s butter-stealing can be categorized into two phases. Initially, he steals butter within the confines of their home. While this behavior is mischievous, it remains manageable and even amusing for Yashoda. However, as Krishna begins venturing into other homes in Vrindavan to steal butter, Yashoda’s worry intensifies.

Symbolism Behind Krishna’s Actions

Her concerns are rooted in both practicality and profound love. Vrindavan is a close-knit community, and Yashoda worries about Krishna’s future reputation. She imagines the day he will need to marry and frets, If Krishna earns a reputation as a thief, who will agree to marry their daughter to him? Yashoda often wonders, If Krishna wants butter, why does he need to steal it? I can give him all the butter he could ever want!

This anxiety, stemming from her motherly love, contrasts sharply with Krishna’s perspective. For Krishna, stealing butter is an act of playful affection, a way to connect deeply with the gopis who pour their love into churning the butter. The butter becomes symbolic of their devotion, and Krishna’s actions deepen his relationship with them by accepting their love in this unique form.

When European colonialists first encountered depictions of Krishna as a mischievous child stealing butter, they were perplexed. Accustomed to envisioning God as an omnipotent, judgmental figure, they found the idea of a playful, crawling deity incomprehensible. How can God crawl on the ground? How can God steal? And why would God steal butter? they asked. But Krishna’s butter-stealing holds profound symbolism—it represents his acceptance of pure, selfless love and his ability to connect with his devotees in the most endearing ways.

Balancing Love and Discipline

While Krishna’s antics bring joy, Yashoda understands that even love must have boundaries. As a parent, she feels the responsibility to guide and discipline Krishna. She tells him firmly, You must not steal—especially not from others! Her discipline is an extension of her love, a reflection of her desire to protect Krishna from the consequences of his actions.

In one of the most tender moments of their relationship, Yashoda ties Krishna to a mortar to teach him a lesson. This act symbolizes not only her maternal authority but also her unwavering devotion. She is perhaps the only person who can demand accountability from Krishna, the Supreme Lord, with the simple authority of a mother’s love.

This unique dynamic underscores the exalted nature of Yashoda’s love for Krishna. Her maternal affection, or vatsalya rasa, is characterized by dual anxieties: the constant fear of external threats and the worry of guiding Krishna’s mischievous nature. When sages tell her that Krishna is God, she dismisses the idea, saying, How can he be God? He can’t even control his hunger! When he’s hungry, he steals butter. He’s not God; he’s just my sweet, mischievous child. Even when Krishna reveals his universal form to her, Yashoda momentarily acknowledges it but quickly returns to seeing him as her little boy. For Yashoda, Krishna is not the Supreme Lord—he is simply her beloved son.

Devotion in Maternal Love

Mother Yashoda’s love for Krishna is unparalleled because it is rooted in complete absorption in him as her child. Her vatsalya bhava is her highest form of devotion, expressed through her relentless concern for his well-being and her tireless efforts to nurture and protect him. Her journey as Krishna’s mother is a testament to the profound depth of maternal love, a love that transcends divinity and rests in the simple, unshakeable bond between a mother and her child.

A Note of Gratitude:
Thank you all for listening. When I think of Krishna, I often feel drawn to his pastimes at Kurukshetra. I don’t fully know why Kurukshetra captivates me so deeply, but perhaps one day I will find the reason. I am sure all of you also have a unique aspect of Krishna that resonates with your heart.

Let us pray for our spiritual progress and offer our gratitude to Krishna:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

I would also like to thank all those who have contributed in various ways to this gathering. From preparing prasadam to organizing satsangs, your efforts are deeply appreciated. Perhaps some of you have tasted the offerings lovingly prepared for these occasions.

Lastly, as we enter the divine atmosphere of Vrindavan through these discussions, let us remember that devotion is about participation. If anyone would like to contribute to the prasadam or the arrangements for our satsangs, you can reach out to our team here. It is a beautiful way to reciprocate with the blessings we are receiving.

Hare Krishna.
Tomorrow, we will begin promptly at 8 a.m. Please do join us for the next session. Thank you.

The post Krishna Charitra Series by HG Chaitanya Charan Prabhuji – Part 1 – Lord Krishna in Vrindavan appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

I have an incredible story to tell you… last night I was still working in the restaurant it was very late, when a boy saw the book stand, he looked at them and asked me: “Who is Krishna”? I have a friend with the same name, his name is also Krishna. And this evening I
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According to Vedic scriptures, in the past age, in Satya Yuga lived a king named Sagara, King of Oudh, the 13th ancestor of Lord Ramachandra. He performed a holy yajna, the Ashwamedha yajna or horse-sacrifice 99 times.

This ceremony consisted of sending a horse (the symbol of his power) around the world challenging all to arrest its progress. If the horse returned unopposed, it was understood to be an acceptance of the supremacy of the king.

When King Sagara made preparations for the 100th sacrifice, Indra, the King of heaven, who had himself performed the ceremony a 100 times, jealous of being displaced by this new rival, stole the horse and concealed it in a subterranean cell, where the sage Kapila (incarnation of Lord Vishnu) or Kapila Muni, was absorbed in meditation, oblivious to all happenings of the external world. 

Sagara’s 60,000 sons traveled far and wide to find the stolen horse. At last, they found it near the ashram of the great sage. Believing the sage to be the thief, they assaulted him. The muni, upon being aroused, opened his eyes, understood the situation and cursed his assailants, who were immediately burnt to ashes and sentenced to hell.

On hearing this, King Sagara went to the sage and begged for his mercy. The sage, at first turned a deaf ear to his plea, but later told that the princes would gain enlightenment if their ashes were washed by the holy waters of the heavenly river Ganges. 

For two generations, attempts were made to bring the Ganges down to the earth from the celestial regions but all efforts proved futile. A prince of this dynasty, Bhagiratha, pleased the gods, and with the help of Lord Shiva, brought Ganga down to earth. His forefathers’ sins were washed away and the people had the opportunity to wash away their sins as well.
 

From then on, Gangasagar, near the ashram of the sage Kapila, has been a holy place of pilgrimage at the junction of the river and sea. It is auspicious, especially during Maker Sankranti, to come here and free the soul from earthly sins.
 
As per Vedic scriptures, Lord Balarama the eternal brother of Lord Krishna, also visited Ganga Sagar. In Gaura Lila, Lord Nityananda also visited this place. As per the Srimad Bhagavatam, Lord Kapila is still residing here. 

Hare, Krishna. So now we move onwards to the subsequent stages within bhakti. So which are the stages you have completed till now? Within bhakti, how many steps are there? 9.

So we have completed. Shraddha, that was curiosity, then sadhu sangha, that is association, then which is basically practice application. Then there is Anartha niruddhi. So Anartha niruddhi is basically the removing of Anarthas. And after that, there are 5 stages.

If we’ll discuss 1 by 1 now, and we’ll see if we can complete all of them today. So we have Nishta, then we have Gucci, bhava and prem. So, now there is, mishthais, we discussed is, it’s like a strong conviction. So from curiosity, we are moving toward conviction. Now there are generally faith and doubt.

They have they are seen to have one kind of relationship. What is the relationship within faith and doubt? Not only the normal kind of relationship that we think about. They’re opposites, isn’t it? So the word relationship doesn’t seem to be if you say opposite, what kind of relationship does India and Pakistan have?

Okay. Or what kind of relationship did the USSR and u USA have during the cold war? So normally we think of faith and doubt as opposites. So opposites means as faith increases, doubt decreases. And with this vision in mind, the idea often is that, doubt is like a demon.

And we pray to Krishna, destroy the demon of doubt. Now there is definitely truth through that. At the same time, within the tradition itself, there is another vision of doubt. So when we talk about mishta, it is not that all doubts get eliminated completely. It is, in fact, if you consider in the Bhagavatam, in the 3rd canto, there are 5 characteristics of intelligence that are described.

And so the first characteristic of intelligence is described to be doubt. So doubt is a characteristic of intelligence. Now what does that mean? That it is only an intelligent person who can have doubts. In many cultures, even no matter how liberal they are, they say you cannot have advertisements directed towards very small kids because kids cannot separate fantasy from reality.

And so there are kids’ toys. No. You cannot make targeted advis advisement for kids. Because kids, they say they don’t have the critical intelligence developed to know what is propaganda and what is reality. Now whether whether adults have that, that’s open to question.

But still, the idea is that it requires a certain level of intelligence to be able to doubt. No, maybe this is not true. And Prahupada says, in one sense, the spiritual journey begins with doubt. We say, how is that possible? It begins with a doubt about materialism.

That the world is promising us so much pleasure. Eat this, watch this, touch this, enjoy this. And the world is telling us the body is the source of so much enjoyment. But is the body actually a source of pleasure? Am I actually the body?

Is the world actually going to give all the enjoyment that it promises? So it requires intelligence to doubt that. So materialistic people, they just believe whatever propaganda is fed to them. Now I’m not saying all materialistic people, but those who believe the promises of materialism, at least for those people, what happens is, it requires intelligence to be able to doubt. And if one characteristic of the growth in bhakti is that our buddhi increases.

Krishna says, I’ll give you buddhi. Then if the buddhi is increasing, then the capacity to doubt should also be increasing. Which seems strange, isn’t it? On one side we say that as we grow spiritually, our faith increases and doubt decreases. But on the other side, we say as we grow spiritually, our buddhi increases.

And if intelligence is characterized, at least one character is doubt, then should our capacity to doubt also increase? Well, yes. See in this vision, faith and doubt both are tools for our spiritual journey. So if you’re driving a car, then faith is like the accelerator and doubt is like the brakes. And if we are going on driving a car, the car needs to have both.

The car has only accelerator and no doubt. No no brakes. The car is going off track or the car is crashing into some other car. We’ll not be able to stop it at all. So only faith.

So if you consider it, there’s only faith and no doubt. Now that can very easily to blindness, like blind faith, sentimentalism, fanaticism, that can happen. But on the hand other hand, if it’s only doubt, that’s all that’s like trying to drive a car by only pressing the brake. What’ll happen? It’ll just be a waste of fuel.

The car won’t move at all or the car will just go round and round and round. Isn’t it? So this is what is called not just skepticism, but it is cynicism. Cynicism means you just doubt everything. So we need a a wise combination of both.

Just like a wise driver, experienced driver, knows when to press the brake and when to press the accelerator. So it is not that when we come to the level of mishta, after we go to an earth and uruthi, it does not mean that we necessarily have to start believing every single thing that we hear from everyone. That’s not Nishta. What happens see, like, say, let’s go go back to the doctor example. If I have taken a treatment and I have been healed by the treatment, now that will mean that for me, I have faith that this treatment works.

Now does that mean that it say that say there’s allopathic treatment or ayurvedic treatment or naturopathic treatment? Now is it still possible that the naturopathic treatment could be good and still there is some naturopathic hospital where there is some scam done by some doctor? That’s possible. Now if the scam is done, we will be concerned. It is not that if the there are patients who are accusing or there are police who are accusing, we have to say it, you know, that it’s all a false thing.

Maybe it is true, but that doesn’t affect my faith in the fact that this treatment works. So so basically what happens is when we come to the level of Nishta, it is very strong conviction. But that conviction is based on understanding what are the essentials and what are the non essentials. So, yes, in a hospital, there might be a doctor who is on a scam, and that is concerning. But it is not that the hospital’s doctor doing a scam means that the the treatment itself is false.

So that capacity to differentiate, just like we talked about organized religion earlier, that it is always possible that there could be some people who do something wrong. There is one one, Christian gag. Gag is like a joke. They say religion was a very good thing, but it made a very big mistake. It got mixed with people.

Now, okay, religion could have stayed very pure, but if it if it there are no people involved, how is religion going to benefit people? And it is the Einstein also that science is a wonderful thing if you don’t have to earn a living from it. Once you have to earn a living, it’s possible that especially in America, they have this word called big pharma. Like, we have big tech, like big pharma. So sometimes some of these pharma these pharma companies, their budgets are more than the budgets of several countries.

And there’s some some of this far at least in India, you don’t so much advertise medicines. Sometimes, like, some health compliments, supplements they advertise. But you don’t have there’s a paracetamol or something like that. Isn’t it? But in America, legally, you can advertise medicines.

And then what happens when you advertise medicines that actually doctors go and doctors say, I heard this medicine is very good. Sorry. Patients go to doctors and give me this medicine. It’s almost like going to a doctor, like shopping. So now it’s it’s it’s sometimes becomes quite a racket.

Now are there ulterior agents involved? Does pharma want to make money? Obviously. But does that necessarily mean all the medicines given by mainstream allopathy are of quacks? Not necessarily.

Isn’t it? So there are essentials and there are non essentials. So when we say Nishta, that Nishta comes from the personal transformation that we have experienced. It does not mean that, say I had a wonderful experience with devotees, but that does does that mean that every single devotee is wonderful? Not necessarily.

Isn’t it? Devotees come from different backgrounds and not everybody is at the same level of purification. So our faith, where does it come from? So it comes from our experience and then we ourselves start understanding the difference between the essentials and the non essentials. And we say, is a hospital essential?

Yeah, of course we can say hospital is essential, but something being done wrong in the hospital does not invalidate the treatment itself. The 2 are separate things. So because we could say non essential in the the hospital admin. And there is the treatment. So like that, we can have the bhakti process.

And there can be the bhakti organization. That are now what happens is, any organization in the world, an organization like a skarn, it’s a huge organization. And there are different people and different people do different things at times. So it is not that. Nishtha means that it’s not uncritical faith.

Nishtha is realized faith. So there’s a difference between it is what? It is realized faith. Realized means, I have realized that this works for me. But realized faith is not uncritical faith.

So, of course, that does not mean that we will if any accusation is made anywhere against any devotee, we’ll immediately believe it is true. No. There’s a due process for evaluating it. It may be true. It may be false.

Can there be malpractices done by someone? Possible. Now we all have anarthas, and sometimes we may succumb to anarthas. Sometimes when those are senior leaders, they’re also human beings. They’re also in this world of temptation.

They may also succumb. So basically, even with respect to philosophy, we also start understanding what is the central aspect of philosophy and what are the non central aspect of philosophy. So our faith comes from the essentials. So when I started practicing bhakti, you know, I was very attracted to the scientific aspect of the scientific evidence for the existence of soul, scientific evidence for the existence of God. Now I will use the word scientific evidence.

I won’t use the word scientific proof because evidence contributes to proof. Now whether the evidence that is available, whether that contributes to the level of becoming a proof, that is something which every individual has to decide. That, okay, we have this as evidence of people who remember their past lives. We have this evidence of consciousness cannot be explained as coming from the brain. Because at this point, it’s the existence of soul.

Oh, yes. Is this proof? Well, in these areas, the word proof is quite subjective. No. You cannot give mathematical proof.

Like, sometimes we prove theorems in science. So there is evidence. Is the evidence persuasive? I find it persuasive. Somebody else maybe from a scientific mind, they may not find it persuasive.

That’s up to them. So that doesn’t make them a bad person. That just means that, you know, this evidence doesn’t is not sufficient for them. Maybe they need more evidence and that’s fair enough. So we need to understand that mishita, we understand what is essential.

So for example, so I was telling that my journey, when I read so I said I was attracted for the scientific logical explanation of things. And then I was told that Prabhupada said man didn’t go to the moon, and that really disturbed me. I said, no, this is considered to be the crowning achievement of humanity, and to say that is false. And then devotee showed me some, you know, there are some conspiracy theory movies and this and that. And now I read that.

And my nature is that, see, different people are driven by different things in bhakti. And I’ll come to that when we come to the next stage beyond nishtha. But see, for me, curiosity is very important. Like, for me at an intellectual level, I don’t need certainty as much as I need curiosity. I wanna keep learning.

So if I get an argument for theism, I would like to know how atheists respond to this argument so that I can respond better to it. So then when I went and started looking at what Naza says, Now Naza has its refutations to whatever is said about the moon. Now whether those refutations are just like one return punch or are they knockout punch, that depends. Now there are refutations of the refutations also. So this just goes on.

So anyway, I’ll come to how I resolve this eventually. But after this, so recently, you know, India launched this chandrayaan And then a lot of devotees were very disturbed. So is it we see it on television. I said, what is this? Television.

You believe what you see on television? What kind of fool are you? It’s all Maya. It’s all anybody can create anything. So then some senior devotees asked me, you know, how I was not planning to comment on it, but 2, 3 senior devotees and pro parties have also asked me, how would you answer this question?

So I made a recording. I give answers. I said, this is very good answer. You put in public domain. So then so what had happened, I had a lot of difficulty in accepting this.

And Prabhupad said, do you think you are cleverer than Prabhupad? Do you think you’re wise? I said, somebody asked this kind of question. You know, that is emotional blackmail. You know, it is basically, like, it’s, intellectual you know, sometimes if you don’t want somebody to speak speak, you put a gag on their mouth.

It like intellectually gagging someone by emotionally blackmailing them. So I just couldn’t accept it. Now that is an argument that every religious tradition uses. And you do think you are cleverer than Jesus? If Jesus says this, it is true.

Do you think you are cleverer than Mohammed? Quran says this, it is true. Every religion uses that argument. And now it’s not a question of whether I am saying I am clever. I want to know how do I make sense of this.

So my issue at that time was that, okay, the 1969 landing, there is a lot of conspiracy theories associated with that, and I find them persuasive. I went through quite a bit of this accusation and then the reputation and the accusation. So I find that persuasive as of now. But it and the reason why it’s persuasive is that they are supposed to have taken man to the moon in 1969. And after that, they have never taken man to the moon.

So now actually in this phone, the processor is better than what they had in 1969 for the moon mission. So if we have this level processor right now, why can’t we send people to the moon right now? So that is one thing. There are 2 different things over here. There is the mission to the moon, and there is a manned mission to the moon.

So after that, many countries have claimed that they have sent missions to the moon. And there is not much conspiracy associated with that. There is not and now could it be a conspiracy? Of course, it could be. Anything can be a conspiracy.

But there are countries which are, like, completely opposed to each other. Say China Russia and America are opposed to each other. China and India are opposed to each other. Right? So if China were creating a hoax, India would allow to expose it.

If India were doing a hoax, China would be ready to expose it. And there are well documented failures. This is the previous Indian mission. It almost went to the moon, and then it collapsed. Was it the moon or the Mars?

Moon, you know, moon only. That almost reached the moon, and before that, they collapsed. It’s just a few months before India’s mission, Russia’s mission. So if they’re hoaxing, why create a it it really requires a devilish mind to make a hoax and make the hoax a failure. Is it?

So anyway, at that time, so I started studying it and I read one I talked with the devotee scientist. And then he showed me that Prabhupada has made 6 different kinds of statement on this. So one statement is, you know, this whole thing was hoaxed. The second is that, yeah, maybe they went out of the earth, but the devtas diverted them somewhere and they didn’t go to the moon. And maybe they went to the moon, but they didn’t access the moon.

And, like, Prabhupad used the example. Suppose somebody lands in the Sahara Desert, and they look around, and they don’t find anything over there. Another is that they went to the moon, but it is a higher planet. So, basically, even if humans go to the heavens, if they don’t have the punya, they won’t say anything over there because it’s a higher domain of existence. Other explanations, Prabhupada says, you went to the moon, you spent 1,000,000 of dollars, you just came back with some stones.

What is the use? Then in the introduction, says, we have endeavored so much to raise our bodies to the moon, why not endeavor a little bit to raise our consciousness? That will bring far more meaning and satisfaction in our life. So if you see, now in the mainstream narrative, actually, I felt very angry because these other 4, 5 statements of they never told to me only. So now one statement, man didn’t go to the moon.

The other is, man went to the moon, but what is the big deal about it? So now how do we see all these? There are different statements. So the thing is, Prabhupa did not start the International Society For Moon Conspiracy Exposure. See, what is essential?

Prabhupada started the International Society for Krishna consciousness. So the essential point is Krishna consciousness. Now there are many other statements on contemporary issue that Prabhupada may have made. So the point is, overall, in the 19 sixties, there was a lot of excitement. Oh, we will go to the moon and that science is progressing so much.

And even that time, there was this faith that science will solve all human problems. It started decreasing slowly. Now people are interested in technology. Everybody knows technology. But the idea that science will answer all questions about the meaning and purpose of life.

Science will make people happy. That hope not many people have. That’s why many people in the west with technological advancement as well turning towards spirituality. So the point of Prabhupad is that don’t get too excited by all this. Don’t worry so much.

Don’t think that this is going to solve all the problems. So when Prabhupad himself has done a multiple set of statements, so is it necessary that to be faithful to Prabhupad, we have to accept only one statement? No. Prabhupada’s point is the essential is focus on Krishna consciousness. And this okay.

If somebody believes that man went to the moon. No. Is when if that person practices chant Hare Krishna practices bhakti, is at the end of the death at the door of Goloka? I would ask, do you believe man went to the moon or not? If you bully man to the moon, get out of Goloka.

Not that’s irrelevant. Isn’t it? So there are essentials and there are non essentials. So it is not that the faith become when we say our conviction becomes strong, that doesn’t mean that we just put aside all our thinking ability. Rather, we are able to think of what is more important and what is less important.

What is central? Like Prabhupada would say there is niyama there is principles and there are details. The principle is focus on Krishna consciousness. The detail is, well, in a particular thing, what happened? Did man actually go to the moon?

Did only unmanned mission go to the moon? Did it only not even go out of the space? That’s the detail. So, essentially, when we when we have this the stage of Nishtha, we basically, you can say put first things first. What is the first thing in bhakti is Krishna consciousness.

And we learn to avoid both. There is niyamagraha and there is niyamagraha. So we are able to avoid both of these. Niyam agrah means that we reject the principle itself. So niyam can be referred to the principle, it can refer to the specific rule or detail.

So we just reject the entire principle. Suppose tomorrow, some very strong evidence comes up saying that man didn’t go to the moon. Oh, you know, Prabhupada said man didn’t go to the moon. Now there’s evidence that has come up that man went to the moon. Therefore, Prabhupada was wrong.

Therefore, everything that he taught is wrong. Therefore, I’m going to give Krishna consciousness. No. We don’t do like that anywhere else in the field, isn’t it? So tomorrow you’re studying engineering.

So you’re studying engineering. And say you study IT, and then you find out that, you know, the use of silicon chips causes cancer. And this was known, but it was hidden. And the bad thing it was hidden. But does that mean all semiconductor technology becomes bad because of that?

Does that mean the whole field of IT becomes bad because of that? No. That one thing is an issue. So now as I said, even if it comes out that man went to the moon, that does not prove Prabhupada was wrong because Prabhupada is made of multiple set of statements, isn’t it? Why should faithfulness to Prabhupada be reduced to only one particular statement?

Isn’t it? Prabhupada himself has many multiple statements. Why reduce faithfulness to Prabhupada to one particular statement alone? So niyamaagraha means we reject the principle itself. And niyamaagraha means we insist on the details.

Agraha means insistence. We insist on the details as the proof of faithfulness. But in between would we? We accept the principle. And then what do we do?

We contextualize the details. That’s important, what does this contextualize mean? Contextualize means that we see what is being said where. There are 2 extremes and contextualize the balance. One is to absolutize everything.

The other is to relativize everything. Absolutize means what? This is what is said, that’s absolutely true. That’s why. So we cannot absolutize things.

You know, I saw once I was traveling by flight and I saw some person was reading a newspaper. Now how you hardly see anyone with newspapers. Now with any real media coming up, this was about 2016. I saw it and said that there’s some person who had died and said that India’s biggest mistake on gaining independence was that it did not follow the Bhagavad Gita. Okay.

I said that’s very interesting. Then I googled and found out the article, and this was more like a political commentator. And he said if India had followed the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna told Arjuna to fight. So as soon as Pakistan was formed, India should have attacked Pakistan and annexed Pakistan. We didn’t follow the Bhagavad Gita.

And that is why we are suffering now. Now whether India should have attacked Pakistan or not, that’s a political subject. That has nothing to do with following the Bhagavad Gita, isn’t it? See, there are Ramacharya, Madhvacharya, even Chakravartipath, they have all lived at the time when the Islamic aggression was going on. Maybe not Ramacharya so much, but definitely Madhavacharya and others.

But none of them have said to follow the. This is Muslims that are Adharmas attack. You know, that is a political matter that has to be dealt with. So do we did Krishna call Arjuna to fight? Yes, he did.

So absolutizing means we would say that everyone has to fight to follow the Bhagavad Gita. Now relative wise would mean that, like, what what does one one political leader, he made the whole Gita is metaphorical. He wanted to reach non violence, and he said that the Gita seems to call upon violence. So it’s all symbolic. It’s all metaphorical.

So, but contextualize means that there is a universal principle of the Gita is what? Do the will of God. Surrender to God. And at that particular point, the will of God is to fight for Arjuna. But that does not mean the will of God for all of us should be to fight.

So contextualize means what? We we look at the context, see the what is the specific guideline in the context, and then we look at the universal principle. And that universal principle is what is more important. See, in the 19 sixties, people were very excited with the idea of man are going to the moon, and that was a big distraction for people. See that, okay, you know, if science can advance so much that it can take us to the moon, then why do you need spirituality?

But in today’s world, yeah, Indians will become very proud that we we took, we went to the moon mission, but that doesn’t stop them from their spirituality. Is it is it see that time, the moon mission was a distraction from spirituality. Now criticism of the moon mission becomes a distraction from spirituality, isn’t it? They’re like, okay, India went to the moon. What’s the big deal?

I mean, it’s a big deal for some people in some context, a national level, it’s a it’s a big deal, but that if that is not an obstacle for people in the spiritual path, why highlight it? So what is essential and what is non essential? When we develop the Nishta, we get realizations. And then we get when we get realizations, we are able to understand clearly what is important, what is not so important. And of course, we talk with other devotees and with those devotees we understand.

So because it is that generally every every tradition comes with many different things associate with it. And it is not that every single thing is equally important. So I’m going to focus a little bit more on Nishtha before I complete this point, and we’ll move towards the next after that. See, ultimately, this is just a broad example. It doesn’t have to be only like this.

See if we consider Krishna is at the center. Now some people, different people may come to Krishna through different pathways. So what does that mean? Like some people may come from the philosophical pathway and they had questions about life. They had questions about the meaning and the purpose of life, and then they got answers.

That’s what brought them to Krishna. Now some people may come from the cultural pathway. Cultural pathway means that there’s many Indians who go to America. Initially, they want to have fun, but after they have children, they want to pass some of the values to their children. You know, we want to have some place that feels like home.

So when they come to its temple, they see their deities, their arti, their kirtan. They feel this is like a cultural home. So some of you may also, if you had a nice nice sort of pious upbringing. Then when you come to a hostel, you find, okay, you know, this is nice place. There’s somewhere nice nice something cultural nice is happening over there.

So for some people, they may come from the cultural perspective. Some people may come from the social pathway. Social pathway means what? That the modern world is extremely lonely. Often people are not trustworthy.

I saw one quote when I was in California. You know, there’s a person driving for a program. In front of the car bumper, it was written. The more I get to know people, the more I love my dog. So people betray us, God, a dog, always there.

Radhishya Puru, your best friend? In America, they thought it like a dog training manual. Because your best friend is who? A dog. Most people, the idea that God That is a word that people don’t get it in their mind at all.

Anyway, the point is that some people come from a social pathway. They want, oh, these are nice people. I want to hang out with these people. You know, they want a sense of community. They want a sense of belonging, and that is the reason why they come to Bhakti.

Some people may come from the psychological pathway. Psychological pathway means their minds are very disturbed by some things. Now these are not like completely watertight categories, but some people might be having some, their minds are very disturbed by something this has happened and that has happened. They’ve got a lot of anxiety, and they just come to the temple and they feel very peaceful. But you know, so such people, if the kirtans are very noisy, then they are ecstatic, but they feel it’s noisy.

They don’t like that. For some people when they come, such people, if there is a spiritual center in a very naturally scenic place, then they like it very much. They want peace. They want calmness. They want something which will just relieve the agitation of the mind.

So now what happens is Krishna can attract different people from different backgrounds. That is the expertise of Krishna. At the same time, what happens is what hap if I am coming from, say, from the philosophical pathway, what may happen is that, see, this is a path, but I may make the path into my shelter. So what do I mean by that? The path becomes the shelter means that why do I come here?

Oh, because the classes are so nice. The philosophy is so stimulating. You know, I learn so much over here. Now if that is that which is a path becomes my shelter, Then tomorrow, if, say, somebody would use a class which is not very philosophically stimulating, I said, why am I coming here? If there is some philosophical controversy and there is no resolution to that.

Sometimes what happens is that we are disturbed about something, and this used to happen with me a lot. Like in the Bhagavadam classes, sometimes devotees would speak things which are completely wrong. Like, they would take a verse, and they would massacre the verse. It’s like, you know, sometimes people don’t know Sanskrit. They take words, then they start explaining the words.

This word means this word means this. This word means that. But, you know, that word in Sanskrit doesn’t mean that. It sounds like it means that, but it doesn’t mean that. So anyway, so that is the curse of intelligence.

You can easily easily find intellectual faults in everyone else. But anyway, so I would get disturbed. And then I would go and tell my seniors, and they would say that, you’re sincere devotees giving a class. Appreciate that. Now I would be disturbed first, and then I would be disturbed that they are not disturbed.

I just it’s a serious thing. We are supposed to represent the tradition. How can you get the philosophy wrong like this? And I just don’t understand it. And then slowly, I started meeting different devotees.

Like, say, one devotee said, you know, today my whole morning program got disturbed. So what happened? You know, this devotee while he was moving the dia, instead of moving it 7 times, he moved it 9 times. It’s a. I said, you know, you didn’t have anything else for me to count on.

So now, what happens is clearly, for him, it’s like the culture is the shelter. You know, Krishna is worshiped through the precision of the ritual, and for some devotees, that is how they get the shelter of Krishna. Now this is Krishna is God, and we do this very precisely for Krishna. Krishna is very Krishna is all attractive, so Krishna can attract us in different ways. So they are not they said I was not nitpicking.

I was not just trying to find faults for sake, finding faults, nor was this devotee doing like this. But what happens is if their shelter is the the cultural aspect, it just becomes so messy. I was in America, and one devotee came to me and he said, you look good as a Mayawati. I said, what do you mean? So what had happened was that, you know, most of the time, almost 8, 9 months, I’m outside India.

And I travel alone, so I shave my head, and I’m a little absent minded. So sometimes while shaving, I shave off my shikhaals. So there was no shikhaals, and also my shikha, like very small. It is there, he says. So you have adopted the Mayawadi hairstyle.

That’s why he said, you look good as a Mayawadi. That. He said, you know, this is like a central symbol. This is what differentiates us from Mayawadis. He said it is better that you have long hair and other than have a head without a shikha.

Nobody else told me that. I asked my spiritual master. He said, it does it matter? Is it? Try to be careful, but it is not a big thing.

But for somebody else, it’s a big thing. Isn’t it? So like, for somebody, the cultural precision may be very, very important. And for somebody else, it may not be. Similarly, if somebody has come from the social pathway, you know, if for them, they see some devotee behaving improperly.

Like somebody comes to a temple, and they see a devotee yelling at someone else, and my god, is it how can a devotee behave like this? Now, yes, we don’t want this. It’s not a very pleasant sight to see a devotee screaming at someone, a devotee yelling at someone. But this devotee, you know, I was in one temple, and this I was staying at 1 Garhastha’s home, and they said, you know this temple president? You know, he yells at people.

He said, you know, when he yells, it’s like I’m reminded of, you know, Indian streets where there are goondas yelling at someone. So then I talked with the president, and then I told him. He said that tell them that I was worse than before I was worse than whatever Gundas they might have seen before. Is that right? Sir, he said, before, I would not just be yelling, I would be doing much, much more.

Now because of, I’m only yelling. So now, of course, we can say that, that kind of behavior is not to be entered not not good. But if somebody would have been saying, okay, you know. Okay. That devotee, that is a little short-tempered devotee, or that devotee has that’s just the way the devotee is.

Don’t take it so seriously. But some dude, how can you not take it seriously? See why? Because for them, they have found shelter of Krishna to the social aspect of bhakti. The social aspect means, oh, how nice devotees are, how well behaved devotees are.

Now is it important for devotees to be well behaved? Of course. But if we just want have we come to Krishna consciousness just because it’s a nice social club? No. Even if some devotees don’t behave well, that shouldn’t disturb us so much that we forget that I have come here for taking the shelter of Krishna.

So whichever path we follow, basically there will be a test And the test will be that it’s a test for you to guess what this is. This is and I failed the test. You didn’t this. There must be an earthquake. You know?

So, if I am standing here, and the ground underneath quakes, and that’s how it can feel. For somebody who has come to bhakti from the social pathway and say, the devotee who has always been very nice to them. If that very devotee starts becoming angry with them, that devotee starts chastising them, I thought devotees are such nice people. And there’s one devotee who says, you know, that initially when new people come, we feed them fried pakodas. When they become devotees, we fry them like pakodas.

Why have you not completed the service? Why are you going to do this? What’s so irresponsible? There is that. If when that happens now when the quake happens, it is our choice whether we run toward Krishna or we run away from Krishna.

So that’s something which we need to be deciding. Nobody else can decide for us. It is possible that we may say, if devotees behave like this, what is the point of practicing bhakti? Better let me give up the practice of bhakti. Or we can say that, yes, this is not good, but I have not come to Krishna consciousness just to hang out with nice people.

I have come here to gain Krishna. So this is where I understand we’re talking about the difference between the essentials and the non essentials. Yeah. I have come here for the philosophy, but I have not come here only for the philosophy. It is the philosophy that is taking me toward Krishna.

So sometimes, if there is some philosophical confusion, there is some philosophical controversy, no, it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to get caught in that. I’m not going to let that become an obstacle between me and Krishna. So each person has to be able to recognize this difference that I’m not coming here. So we will all have a path to Krishna.

Now we all do all things. All of us hear classes. All of us, you know, we we associate with devotees. We are trained about how to have Vaishnav relationships. All of us will learn some of the cultural aspects of bhakti.

So in India, there’s not so many people come from the psychological pathway, but in the as mental health problems are increasing, many people come from that pathway also. But basically, all these are important at the same time. Now what is even more important is that we make sure that we keep moving toward Krishna. So we understand the difference between the essentials and the non essentials. And that’s how, yeah, this is not pleasant, but it doesn’t matter so much.

This is not going to shake my core faith in Krishna. This is not going to, this is not worth getting so worked up about that I become distracted from Krishna because of this. So with respect to this, Anishtha, we will I’ll make one more point that especially if you consider the cultural aspect. You know, there are in every tradition, there are liberals and there are conservatives. And again, the liberals and conservatives are like what?

The liberals are generally on the left, the conservatives are on the right. So now every tradition basically what happens is, if you consider this is the tradition. Now this this it’s coming from the past. Now around the tradition is the living moment. Moment means the moment as it is existing right now.

And then around it, there is the contemporary world. So now what happens is that the living movement needs to stay connected with the past. And it needs to stay connected with the present. So staying connected with the past, this is the primary concern of the conservatives. Staying connected with the present is the concern of the liberals.

So we stay connected with the past through faithfulness. We stay connected with the present through resourcefulness. So for example, when Prabhupada went to America, he did not give classes in Sanskrit. You know? In the the Chetan Chertang is Bengali.

Prabhupada knew classes in Bengali. Prabhupada give classes in the language that people understood. That is English. Like, say, Prabhupada, if you see our darshan arthi, the deities are recorded in a very traditional beautiful way. But a darshanarthi, it is western music to some extent.

It is. It is western music. There’s also female singing over there. So now the way it is done is it actually creates a very sweet devotional experience. So there is a traditional element to it.

There is a contemporary element to it. But the point is the remembrance of Krishna is enhanced. So now in any living tradition, there have to be both the conservatives and the liberals. We need to stay connected with the past. We also need to stay connected with the present.

So now some devotees may, by their own nature, may be more conservative. That means they want to stay connected with the past. And how strongly you are connected with the path, that is what gives them that faith. That that that is what the basis of their spirituality, you know, that, you know, I am doing what was told in the past. And that’s important.

That is what gives them the strength. And that’s wonderful. For some devotees, their strength might be from how much am I reaching out to people. How much am I connecting with people. Now everybody has to do one sense to do both.

But for some people, their primary strength may come from connecting with people and going out of their way to connect with people. So now, again, both can go towards extreme. If they’re we are too liberal, then what happens is we are so concerned about staying connected with the contemporary world that we don’t stay connected with the tradition at all. Then we just become a contemporary fashion trend. Isn’t it?

Everything, something new people are doing, we try imitating that. We lose connection with the tradition entirely. Oh, you know, people nowadays are using this musical style. People nowadays are using this kind of thing. People are already using this kind of thing.

They start adopting everything, and the tradition is lost completely. That we don’t want that if we’re just too liberal. On the other hand, if we’re too conservative, we end up becoming a museum exhibit. Museum exhibit means what? Oh, you know, from from 1977 to 2024, there is a group of people who used to live like this.

But now, we only have those people in the museum now. Nobody does like that. It just become completely irrelevant. So we want to avoid both these extremes. So some devotees may be more conservative, some devotees may be more liberal, but the important point is, are we connected with Krishna?

Are we connecting others with Krishna? That is more important. Otherwise, with respect to culture, you know, how much should we be conservative? How much should we be liberal? It depends.

In India, relatively speaking, some aspects of being culturally conservative might be easier. In in the West, the same level of cultural conservativeness, may not be so easily possible. So it depends, you know. When I was in America, in the West, like, the male female mixing is very common. But there was I was in Texas, you know, she was giving a class, and after that, one day, one girl, she asked a question, why do religions fight among each other?

So I answered the question elaborately. I talked about the 3 modes. I talked about how, you know, fights occur because of various reasons. She she was quite happy with the answer. So after the class, she came to me and she said, you know, different students were asking questions.

So one of she came to me and she said, you know, this question has been burdening me for so long. I’m so relieved by the answer. I’m so grateful. Can I give you a hug? So the preacher was the the local preacher, he’s the organizer.

I just looked at him and please save me. I I didn’t say that, but I just indicated to him. And he did save me, but in an entirely unexpected way. He said, he’s a monk. On his behalf, you can hug me.

His wife was right next to him. And his wife said, I am his wife. On his behalf, you can hug me. The 2 of them are in each other. So, now, it is quite a really experience.

Now I had been warned a little bit about this. See, in the West, the hug is just seen as a normal expression of affection. Now, see, if at that time I had been told by devotees before also. But he says, you know, that while we as a as a brahmachari, I cannot hug, but at the same time, you know, if I go on a, like, a morality trip, you know, what kind of question is this? You know, don’t you know that I’m a brahmachari?

I don’t even touch a woman. You know, she would have been offended. So we have to be culturally sensitive. She didn’t mean anything bad by what she was saying. She was only expressing her gratitude in the way she wanted to express the gratitude.

In the way she knew how to express gratitude. So the thing is, there are, like, being very liberal would mean, okay. Yeah. Sure. Cut.

Hug me. You know, we don’t want to do that. But being cons too conservative would mean, you know, to reject, there is the action that is being done, but there is a spirit behind that action. We can’t accept the action, but we don’t want to reject the spirit. If somebody is expressing some appreciation for something that has been done, then we don’t want to reject that.

Like, we know how now this is a because there’s a male female interaction over here, there’s a certain lens through which we see it. But if you look at it from a different perspective, you know that incident when Prabhupad was giving a class and a hippie suddenly came in, got up and started walking right towards Prabhupada. And I have been to 26th Avenue, to 2nd Avenue Temple. So like the Ghassan is here and right next to that is the restroom. And that hippie went into the restroom and he came out in a couple of minutes.

And then he said, Swamiji, I have kept some tissue paper for you there. And then Prabhupada, he could have said, you know, that I’m giving you a class. Why do I disturb something like this? Don’t disturb us. Have some etiquette.

But what did Prabhupada say? Prabhupada just said, just see everyone has service attitude in their hearts. You see, he also wants to serve. So that is Prabhupada’s presence of mind, but it’s also Prabhupada is being liberal. Prabhupada is not seeing that hippie, just creating a disturbance in my class.

What is Prabhupada seeing? That there is a certain attitude. Maybe he could have done it after the class got over, and maybe Prabhupad could have told him later about that. This was not appropriate. But the point is that there is an action that is done, and there is a spirit in which the action is done.

So sometimes if we are too rigid, just look at the action and condemn the person for the inappropriateness of the action. And if you are too liberal, you know that anybody can start doing anything in the class. And now we don’t want that. And so there has to be this balance. So when we talk about faith, that Mishtha is understanding what is essential and holding on to that.

And that which is non essential, okay, I don’t need to hold on to that. But we also respect that what I may think of as non essential may be essential for someone else. That’s a so then what do we do? Again, we will need like minded devotees. So if for me the philosophical aspect is very important, then I need to find out philosophical interested devotees and get my nourishment from them.

I may not get my nourishment from normal Bhagavatham classes. I may attend them because it’s a service, it’s a duty. So somebody who is very interested in the cultural aspect, they may also attend the normal culture, the morning program and other things, but their strength may not come for that. Maybe they do some of the specialized courses. They learn some yagna.

They learn some homma, and they do that as a service to the community. So we don’t have to give up what is essential for us, but at the same time, we don’t have to impose that everything that I think is essential has to be essential for everyone else. No. It’s not necessary like that. So that is how that Nishta helps us.

You know this tradition Kanishadikari? And after that is madhyamadhikari and after that is uttamadhikari. So basically, generally speaking, it is when we start coming from the anarthenivrutti, the Nishtha stage. This is where we start becoming a madhyama. So mad the key characteristic of madhyama is what?

The madhyama is not just caught in externals. The madhyama values the essential that Krishna can manifest everywhere, and Krishna can manifest in different ways. Prabhupada says in the act of instruction that the key difference between these three like, Kanishta sees Krishna only in the deities, nowhere else. So like, Kanishta may say Krishna only in the precision of the philosophy. Nothing else.

No. That is important, but Krishna manifests in many different places, many different ways. That capacity to appreciate that Krishna manifests in different ways, that is the sign that we are able to move towards Nishtha. So now, after Nishtha comes what? Ruchi.

Yes. So now when we talk about ruchi, essentially this is the it’s like if you consider the spiritual journey to be initially it’s like a steep climb. After that it becomes like a plateau. And towards the end it almost becomes slightly inclined downwards. It’s become like a home run.

The home run is where we just smoothly start moving forwards. So from here, from the state of Ruchi, there is almost no falling down. Because not only are the things that are going to pull us away from Krishna largely removed from our heart, but there is a gravity pull toward Krishna that is coming. We start getting attracted towards Krishna. So now we can say at one level, while we are in the material world, it is always possible to fall down.

And that is true because the material world Maya is always there, but the chances become extremely low. So even from the study of Nishtha, actually it becomes very strong that it is we have got the personal realization. It can still be shaken anytime it can fall, but it’s it’s the chances become much much lesser. If you’re climbing up a incline, then falling down is a little much easier. So goes on.

So till that stage, falling away is relatively much easier. So means basically it’s from this the stage here onwards, it like we has started getting the positive attraction toward Krishna. It is say, if this is the Earth and there is say, a rocket is launched. A rocket is launched and there’s a satellite that comes out of the rocket and, you know, we have that satellite that is shooting up. Now as long as it is in the Earth’s gravity pull, till that time, till the fuel is not there or the fuel stops pushing upwards, it’ll be dragged back down.

So basically, till the stage of Anarthi Nilita has not happened. Once we come to Nishtha, more or less, we have come out of the gravity pull of the material world. Now, now as I said, no example is absolute, but this is broadly that the force that pulls us down, that force becomes substantially weaker. And now on top of that, say if there is say if there is, we are going to some other planets, say we are going to the moon. And now the moon has its its gravity pull.

Now once we enter into its gravity pull, then what happens is that not only don’t we need something to push us towards there, rather there is something pulling us. So if this is if this is Krishna and this is the material world, Then from the stage of Ruchi onwards, it’s like we are in Krishna’s gravity pull. And from there onwards that’s why I said bhakti becomes it’s almost like going down and incline. It is we are being pulled toward Krishna. Now we may feel some pull even now toward Krishna, But quite often at this stage the pull toward Krishna is not that strong.

And we may feel a pull towards Krishna, but we also feel feel a pull towards Maya. And quite often the pull towards Maya is much stronger. But this is a stage where the pull towards Krishna starts becoming stronger and stronger. And then when we say bhakti is joyful. So when the inner struggle decreases, then the joyfulness of bhakti starts increasing more and more.

So from the ruchi onwards, it becomes more and more joyful. Joyfulness starts increasing. So now I’ll talk about see these are very advanced stages, and we can go into details of this at some other time, but I’ll talk primarily in terms of the we’ll have 3 metaphors. There’s the there’s the do you remember 3 metaphors? Journey, like a journey through a mountain track or whatever.

2nd is Health recovery. Like a health recovery. And 3rd is Relationship. Is like a relationship. So now if you talk on in the health recovery, there are two aspects to it.

There is one aspect is that the infection is removed and then after that there is what is called as recuperation. You have heard the word recuperation? Recuperation means that there is no more infection in the body, but the body has not recovered its energy. Like the disease took such a big toll that the body is still weak. So sometimes if somebody has a prolonged disease, then what happens is they say, okay, now you’re not the infection is not in the serious state.

Now you can be discharged from the hospital, but you can’t start can’t start normal activity. You will still be home and take rest at home. Or maybe sometimes the severe disease is there, they say go to a natural place where you can get a lot of fresh air, depending on the kind of disease we have. So there is the so basically with unearthniubruti, the infection more or less has gone. But from Nishtha onwards, basically what happens is the recuperation that the recuperation means our spiritual desires, they start awakening and they start strengthening.

Some may say other spiritual desires not there before. Yes, they are there, but they may be quite weak initially. They may not be very strong. They become stronger as we keep moving towards Krishna. So and especially when we when we become purified of the anartas, then these spiritual desires, they become manifest much much more.

It’s like the soul is actually jiva jago, what you say that the souls actually starts becoming awakened. So it is at this stage that so so from the perspective of recovery, it is from this stage, there’s no more germs. So if there are no more not much you can say always germs are there, but the germs are far below, limit of any causing any danger. So then it’s not a problem to the health at all. So the person at this end had no relapse.

Like sometimes, you know, somebody had cancer, and the cancer has gone into regression. They said that, okay, you just have to do some checkup once a year, once in 3 years. But it says now it is not at a dangerous level at all. And sometimes the cancer goes and it doesn’t come back at all. So like that, at this stage, it is primarily we are not battling with the disease anymore.

We’re only trying to regain our energy. We’re only trying primarily to recover, to heal. That is the spiritual awakening part. So now after this so the let’s now look at the relationship aspect. So in the relay, we will use this metaphor to understand the last, these four stages.

So ruchi and asakti. So it’s like in a relationship, the personal aspects of Krishna start becoming more and more prominent for us. See, although we may initially accept the God is is a principle and God is also a person. When we say God is a principle means what? God is the source of everything.

God is the in charge. God is the governing principle of material existence. Like we say, we have GODs, generator, organizer, as a destroyer. So that, like, God is the operating principle of existence. So the idea of understanding God as a principle is also important.

I’m not saying principle means it’s not a person, but the personal attributes may not be so important at that particular point. Say for example, if somebody loves their country. Now when they love their country, they may also respect and follow the head of state. Allow my country and this person is the head of the state. But somebody may have a personal faith and attraction and relationship with the head of the state.

They’re 2 different things. So if it’s the if we are attracted to the country and we are attracted to the principal that is the head of state, and whoever the head of state will respect. But when we have a personal relationship with the head of state, then it’s much more different. So another way to understand from our time’s attention is that there is the Aishwarya of Krishna and there is the madhuriya of Krishna. That there is his position.

Aishwarya means largely it’s we may still excel as a person, but it is his position that attracts us. Whereas, it is his personal qualities that attract us. So while we always want to have a personal relationship with Krishna, but in our spiritual journey, see initially we may seek, you could say, physical gifts from Krishna. Physical gifts means, Krishna, give me wealth. Krishna, give me health.

Krishna, please give me fame. Then as we move forward, we may start looking for subtle gifts from Krishna. Subtler gifts means what? We may look, Krishna, I want peace. Krishna, please give me intelligence so that I can focus on what is really important in my life.

So now this is a state of more greater advancement. Then we may even seek spiritual gifts from Krishna. Krishna, please let me remember you steadily. Krishna, please help me develop love for you. But if you see the gopis, they are not even asking for spiritual gifts from Krishna.

Our interest is in Krishna only. We go to Krishna because we want Krishna. So even seeking spiritual gifts from Krishna is good, but ultimately, we’re attracted to Krishna itself. Now this cannot be done artificially. Sometimes we can we can pretend, you know, as our devotee told Prabhupada that, Prabhupada, I want to serve you lifetime after life after life.

So Prabhupada said, don’t make me come back life after life to take your service. He said, no. Purify yourself and come to the spiritual world. So the idea is that initially we may even worship Krishna because, we may feel this material world is such a place of entanglement and Maya and illusion. I want to get out of this world.

So we must say that can that can be a subtle gift. It can be a spiritual gift also. But eventually, even if, like, the gopis, they are ready to offer the dust of their feet to Krishna. Why? Because they want to relieve Krishna of his headache.

So for them, Krishna and Krishna’s pleasure becomes the most important thing. So the personal focus on Krishna starts becoming much more at that stage. Now we can start from it from the beginning only. We do hear the philosophy, and it’s important to hear the philosophy that Krishna is a person. But the personal focus on who Krishna is, now that starts becoming more and more evident from the seeds of Ruchi onwards.

So Ruchi is it’s taste. It’s taste for devotional service. Now it could be taste for devotional service means somebody just allows to do daily worship. Somebody just loves to make garlands for Krishna. Somebody loves to cook for Krishna.

Whatever it is, they just love doing that. They say that this is what I can do for the rest of my life. And I don’t I don’t want any fame. I don’t want anything. This is what I just want to do life after life, or at least for this life.

So that that activity itself, that service itself becomes such a deep connection with Krishna. That’s wonderful. Now after that is a sakti. A sakti is attachment. So where it becomes more Krishna centered than service centered.

That means, yes, I love this service, but I love Krishna more. And whatever I need to do for Krishna, I will do that. Now we could say isn’t that surrender there right from the beginning? Of course it is there, but I’m talking here in terms of the experience of Krishna that a devotee has. That when there’s asakti, every aspect of Krishna starts becoming attractive.

That doesn’t mean that there is no personal dimension to it. There’s a personal dimension, no doubt. So the gopis are more attracted to Krishna as a youth. Mother Yashoda is more attracted to Krishna as a child. That is just natural, but still it is Krishna the person that becomes more and more the focus.

Now there are many esoteric aspects of this also, which I’m not going to go into. I’m just going to focus on the principle of the relationship over there. Now there is bhava, and lastly there is prema. So now this is the state where what you call as spiritual experiences. Now the word spiritual experiences nowadays used very liberally.

That, you know, anything that makes people feel good, they call it as spiritual experiences. But I’m using the word spiritual experience in a particular sense. See, what happens for us is, I say we are here and say we could say we are in the material world and above the spiritual world and say there is Krishna in the spiritual world. So I’m using the word spiritual experience more in the sense of the experience of Krishna. In the Chaitanya, Charita, Amrut, there is this word.

Unmad means what? Madness. So divyaonmad would mean what? Divine madness. Other word is premonmad.

Premonmad would mean what? The madness of love. So what happens with respect to the word madness? Normally, we use the word madness to say that the person is disconnected with reality. So somebody says, you know, I hear voices.

Oh, really? Where am I speaking? You can hear no. No. No.

I hear some voices. They seem to be constantly going on. Somebody’s telling me this. Somebody’s telling me that. If there’s nobody around and they say hearing voices, that means what?

There’s a normal reality we are perceiving, and that person is pursuing something else only. That’s what normally we call as madness, isn’t it? So this is, you could say, our physical reality. And you could say there is something like imagination. So where there is imagination.

So if that person is more caught in imagination than in the lived reality. The person is sitting peacefully on bed and says somebody attacking me, somebody strangling me. There’s no one there. That’s what we would call as madness. So this is what we call madness.

But then what happens is while this madness is an is a sign of lack of mental health, but there is a different kind of madness. That is, there is the physical or visible reality that we pursue. But what can happen is that sometimes in a devotee’s path, Krishna manifests. Or the devotee’s vision goes towards Krishna. So basically, this kind of spiritual experience can happen in 2 ways, that Krishna manifests to the devotee within physical reality.

So it is like when Krishna showed the Vishwaroopa. So Arjuna was there on the battlefield, but Krishna manifested himself over there. So it’s like it’s not that the person is transported out of physical reality. In physical reality itself, they have some other experience. Now every religious tradition has these kind of things.

In the Christian tradition, Moses is said to have he saw a burning bush, and the bush was burning. And he noticed maybe somebody set it on fire. Maybe it was a forest fire itself. But the bush was burning and burning, and he’s already exhausted only. It’s burning and burning and burning.

Then he heard a voice. This is sacred ground. Take out your footwear. And he says they took out his footwear and then he offered his respects over there. That that burning bush is considered to be God in that tradition.

He never saw God, but that is what he basically basically saw that that burning bush is God, and he saw someone disappearing. He saw the back of God. He says that. So the idea is sometimes in our physical reality, we see something extraordinary. We get a perception of Krishna.

Now this can this be imagination? It can be, but it doesn’t always have to be imagination. Krishna can reveal himself. Now sometimes it could happen, if you see, especially the last chapters of Chetan Charita Amrut, the last 5 chapters in the Antalilah, 15 to 20. They are describing largely the divine madness.

It starts from the 11th chapter. It’s the last 10 chapters, but especially the last 5 chapters. Sometimes it is Mahaprabhu just talking with devotees. He going for a walk. Maybe coming back from the Jagannath Puru temple or going to the Puri temple.

And the devotees were talking with him, and suddenly they say, he’s gone. Where has he gone? And they would say Mahaprabhu is running towards some tree. And then they would go there and says, I saw Krishna behind that tree. Krishna was playing the flute and calling me.

And I ran towards him, and he was no longer there. Oh, Krishna has abandoned me. Or sometimes Mahaprabhu would just fall unconscious. And then the devotees would do a lot of kirtan and he would come back. Then he would say, why did you disturb me?

Why did you do the kirtan? He said, I was in the spiritual world with Krishna. Radha and Krishna were talking and Krishna to Radharani Radharani to a Gunja, and I was watching, and I was seeing what they are doing. What are the confidential talks that are going what are the confidential talks that are they’re doing. It’s confidential talk that touch our hearts.

Mahaprabhu says, I was there. I was just hearing what Krishna is talking to Radharani. And then you did the loud kirtan, you called me back. Why did you call me back? So what is happening is Mahaprabhu would be transported to a spiritual level.

And the third is that there’s not only like a person goes to the spiritual level, but when they come back, there are some physical transformations. So it is so this is where for example, what happens is, there is you may have heard the story of that devotee who wanted to offer sweet rice to the Lord. And he didn’t have any money to offer sweet rice, so he did Manas Puja. And in his mind, he had made the sweet rice, and then he wanted to see how hot it is, and he touched it, and his finger got burnt. And actually his finger was burnt.

Or there’s the story of, Raghunath Goswami. You know, his stomach was upset once. Now he would hardly eat any food. And then the Vaidya said, you know, he has over eaten. He’s committing blasphemy.

He doesn’t even eat enough. You know? How do you think he’s over eaten? And then, well, the Swami said, actually, you know, there was a celebration in there’s a festival in the spiritual world, and there they had made gheer, and I ate a lot of gheer. So now sometimes that can have a so what is the experience on the spiritual level can have an effect at the physical level also.

So there are, there are transformations like this. In the Christian tradition, they have what is called as the passion of Christ. So where they say that, like, Jesus was crucified, so on his body there are the marks that came up. So they say if somebody meditates very much on Jesus, then those similar marks, they can come on the body of the great saints. Now, of course, not the I’ll I’ll talk about these experiences.

Why am I talking from other traditions also? I want to make this point that this whole idea of a person getting transported to a higher level of reality, there is some reality to that. You know in the Islamic tradition also there are dervishes. That they just go round and round and round and round and round. It seemed as if like some higher possession is there.

Even in the Durga Puja sometimes people say that they are possessed by someone. You see the people start dancing madly. Now of course, can this be fake? Of course it can be fake. But is it always fake?

Not necessarily. So now this we may say it’s the God is coming in someone. It could be imagination or it could be a person pretending, that’s possible. But it is also possible that there are higher realities and those higher realities intersect with our reality. Now in the Durga Puja, they have this test that they say that if you if the person actually possessed, then you take the dia, you’re doing aarti, bring that very close to the eyes of the person.

And normally, you know, how much we will be tried, Arvind had done this experiment, that if I know that I’m going to I know that I’m going to bring my finger very close to the eye. But even if I know it, as soon as I bring it, my eye will blink. I can fully try, but the blinking just does happen. You know, even if I know it, if I bring it if I keep it a little distance, it won’t happen. If you bring it very close, it will happen.

So their idea is all of you are trying it out. So they say that if actually the goddess is there, you bring the Diya very close to the eyes, still the person will not blink. Now don’t try this out. Now is that a solid criteria? Well, can somebody imitate it?

I don’t know. My point is that there there is a possibility of this, but there is also possibility of imitating this in some ways. So there are times when Krishna manifests in this world. So in the Christian tradition also, those who want a claim to sainthood, you know, they may artificially injure their limbs and create some scars over there. And they said this is actually sign of the passion of Christ.

So there are always people who want it cheaply. So Gaurav Vishalal Babaji would give the example that say if a woman is pregnant and she is very near to delivery, then she may scream. Now when she screams, at that time the entire family comes running. And then they give her some special attention and affection and through it all a child will appear. But suppose a woman is not pregnant and she becomes jealous, why is she getting so much attention?

So this woman who is not pregnant starts screaming. And now, she can scream as much as she wants. She may even fool people, but no matter how much screaming she does, no matter how much attention people give to her, there’s no child that is going to come from there. So like that, we can create a pretense of these symptoms of ecstasy, and we may also deceive some people by that. We may even get away by that.

But that manifestation of love for Krishna, that is not going to come. So these spiritual experiences are a reality. They do happen. But because there is a danger of imitating it, and there is a danger of people getting misled by such imitations, that’s why while these descriptions are talked about in Chaitanya Chaitanya, they are talking about in our tradition, our acharyas, especially from the time of Bhakti Santhritakore, they have relatively de emphasized them. They are not emphasized them so much.

So so now the key difference between bhava and prema. So I said during bhava and prema, both of these, the spiritual experiences started coming more and more. Can they come at the city of Nishtha or Aranthani Vruthi also? Possible. They’re rare, but they become quite frequent when it comes to the bhava and prema.

Now the difference is bhava is said to be like sunrise. As prema is said to be like the risen sun. That means at this day of Bhava, there is a perception of Krishna’s presence. But when the sun is risen, there is no perception there. That is the biggest reality.

Like we’re outside, the sun is there in the sky. It’s a constant awareness that the sun is there. So for a devotee at this point, it is Krishna doesn’t just become real. Krishna becomes realer than reality. That means, we have our day to day reality, but Krishna becomes a far bigger reality.

So you remember the original diagram that I had drawn? That in that initially, what happens is the world is big, Krishna is small. But here the world becomes small and Krishna becomes big. So this starts happening itself from the state of only. Krishna starts becoming bigger and bigger.

But by this time, it is Krishna becomes the central reality. Krishna becomes the defining reality. Krishna is all that matters. So vasudeva sarvamiti samahatma sudurlabaha. This is extremely rare.

So for us, the spiritual experiences at our level, we may not necessarily have the spudji experiences or perceive perception of Krishna. Now can Krishna come in our dreams? Well, who are we to say Krishna? What he can’t do? Isn’t it?

We cannot ban Krishna from coming in our dreams, isn’t it? Krishna can come. But the point is that we all know that we still have our Narthas. We have to deal with them. So I was telling that from Bhakti Sanathakur time onwards, our acharyas have adopted a much more pragmatic approach.

That is, yes, there are these higher states of ecstasy in the Bhakti Sanathakur, which proper translated nectar of devotion. There are signs of advanced devotion. And there are some signs which are immutable. And there are some signs which are non immutable. So the immutable would be what is called as the Now these symptoms of ecstasy.

That say a person starts, their hair starts standing up, tears are coming from their eyes, their body start trembling, they start rolling on the ground. These are these are Now they are to some extent immutable, but there is a whole list of characteristics that are non immutable. Say for example, avyartha kalatvam. Avyartha kalatvam is not wasting time. That a devotee is constantly thinking of Krishna and serving Krishna.

Or there is nama gane sadaruchi. So a devotee, it can refer to always eager to do kirtan, but also eager always eager to glorify Krishna. So that is the most important thing for a devotee. So like that there is also Virakti. Virakti is detachment from worldly things.

Samutkanta, enthusiasm to practice bhakti. So this is the list that is non immutable. And this is something non immutable in the sense that how long can a person keep pretending? You can put on a facade for some time. But those who stayed with Prabhupada, they saw Prabhupada was always the same.

Now Prabhupada, even if he read newspapers, he would read, but he was seeing Krishna conscious content there. Even if he was looking something something mundane, he was not looking at something mundane. He was actually seeing Krishna over there. He was always always conscious of Krishna. So these non imitable symptoms are much more important than the imitable symptoms.

And Prabhupada there were times when Prabhupada almost got transported to ecstasy. One time when one of his disciples asked her asked him, Prabhupada, can you tell us a little bit about the Goswamis and their love for Krishna? And Prabhupada said, that’s such a wonderful question. And Prabhupada’s face just lit up and he said, quote, quoting verses from the said, go Swami Ashta come saying that, hey. The go swamis were running around Vrindavan.

Hey, Krishna. Hey, Radharani. Where are you? We wanna see you. And he said that is that is very ecstatic state.

And when Prabhupada spoke that, Prabhupada fell silent. And the devotees who were sitting and watching I met several of the devotees who were there and that, and they said it was almost as if we felt. That when Prabhupada fell silent, like it was like Prabhupada left his body. It was almost as if while Prabhupada physically was there, it was like he was transported to some other realm. And he was there, but he was not there.

And it just went on for several long minutes, and then it was, like, slowly it’s almost like they felt like Prabhupada’s body was coming alive. And then Prabhupada, still with closed eyes, he said, Hare Krishna. And then Prabhupada said, let’s do kirtan. And Prabhupada the devotee started doing kirtan at that time. So there are a couple of times when Prabhupada seemed to go into spiritual ecstasy, but that was not what Prabhupada, presented as the proof of his spirituality.

Prabhupada focused on the fact that his guru had given him instruction and he had dedicated his life to carrying out the instruction of his guru. So Prabhupada did definitely exhibit the non emitable symptoms of advanced devotion, and that is how we can avoid being misled or being caught by externals. So if Krishna so once a devotee said to Prabhupada, or one well we share, he said, Swamiji, Krishna came in my dream yesterday. And Prabhupada said, alright. Just serve him today.

So what he meant by that is if Krishna comes in our dream, that is Krishna’s mercy on us. And that’s wonderful, But that alone is not going to transform our life. Ultimately, it is we who have to use our swicha. We have to use our free will to turn toward Krishna and to serve Krishna. So if Krishna comes in a dream, that’s wonderful.

We can see that as a blessing. But after that, what do we do? Oh, Krishna is real. Krishna really cares for me. Krishna wants to bless me.

Therefore, let me try to connect with him now. Let me try to serve him. If we use those spiritual experiences to claim that we are special. No. Krishna came in my dream.

You know, be careful. I’m a great Vaishnava. Don’t come into Vaishnava. Don’t come into Vaishnava. Otherwise, you don’t do.

So if we do that, then what are we doing is that Krishna is revealing I’m a bigger reality, but instead of being attracted toward a bigger reality, we are using that experience to get to make our ego bigger in this world, to get get bigger credit in this world. That is not very helpful. So if a devotee has some special experiences, we can be grateful. Are they real? Are they not real?

If you want, we can talk with some senior devotee and get some understanding. But whatever it is, even if it is our imagination, sooner imagination is about Krishna. And we can be grateful. We could have had some dream about some sensuality. We could have had some dream about some movie star or whatever.

If we had a dream about Krishna, that’s a blessing. We accept that as a blessing, but instead of claiming special credit because of the blessing, we see that that Krishna is calling me towards him. Let me reciprocate. Let me start practicing bhakti more seriously. So for us, there may be this the broad word uses paranormal experiences.

So if paranormal experiences, are they present or they absent? If they are present, wonderful. If they are absent, it doesn’t matter. The important thing is that it is the normal process of bhakti. That is what is going to help us grow.

This is what is going to lead to spiritual growth. This is what is going to lead to spiritual growth. The normal process of bhakti. How we strive to develop our relationship with Krishna. How we take responsibility for serving Krishna.

How we do our sadhana. How we do the Buddha as well of transcending and transforming. How we take responsibility for that. There’s one devotee you told me, you know, that the first day I came to Radha Gopinath temple, I look at the altar and I saw Krishna winking at me. Now can Krishna wink at someone?

Well, you know the answer now from the previous one. So now was it real? He said, you know, I don’t know. Krishna never winked at me after that. Now was it real?

Was it not real? Whatever is is, he felt that by that, I felt Krishna wants me to come here. So he said I started coming. So but now so his question was, you know, Krishna winked on me at that. Why is Krishna not winking at me now?

Is he upset with me? Was he happy before I was practicing bhakti? So now that is a wrong conclusion to know. Maybe Krishna gave us some special mercy at that time. So I am not going to go on a mission to tell him that experience was false.

That experience was imagination. If that has brought him to Krishna and if he has that faith that that was Krishna, he said okay. There’s no need to no need to challenge that faith. But the point is that should not be that expectation or that experience should not be the central feature of our devotion. Yes.

Krishna call you Krishna. You have that special mercy. The important is a normal process for developing a relationship with Krishna. So follow that process and you will grow in your devotion. So that was Prabhupada’s mood.

Prabhupada’s focus was not on paranormal experiences in bhakti. It was on the normal process and committing ourselves. In the nectar of devotion, Prabhupada says that devotional service, He says, it is not what is that? Two things. It is not sentimental ecstasy, nor is it some kind of speculation.

Sorry, imaginative, sentimental speculation and imaginative ecstasy, I think. Something like that, isn’t it? Imaginary ecstasy, sentimental speculation. It’s substance is practical activity. So he says it is not these two things.

It’s practical activity. So, you know, if Krishna is a real person, then how would we relate with Krishna? Now if, say, we had a we had a sibling, we have a parent, we have a friend, then the various rasas, you know, we have atsaliras, sakiras, maduriras, whatever. If we have a real relationship, what would we do? We would do real activities in that relationship, isn’t it?

So that love is shown through its substances, practical activity. Now if a child comes back from home and the mother says, oh, I see you. I love you so much. I’m so happy to see you. The child says, mommy, I’m hungry.

I’m so happy to see you. Let me hug you. Mommy, I’m hungry. Oh, I’m so happy to see you, you know. Okay.

Varchar will say, I’m not happy to see you. I’m hungry right now, isn’t it? So, yes, there are expressions of love. No doubt. But one of the key expressions of love is practical service.

So this is again a non immutable symptom. Not anybody can keep doing practical service if they are not experiencing something through that service, if they’re not experiencing Krishna. In that way, each one of us can actually keep our relationship with Krishna real. And we will, by keeping that relationship with Krishna real, Krishna will become will slowly but surely keep becoming a bigger and bigger reality for us. So I’ll summarize what we discussed today.

We talked about the 5 remaining stages. The nishtha was what I spent a lot of time on nishtha. So in that, we discussed how faith and doubt, they don’t have to be opposites that faith and doubt both can be tools on the spiritual path because doubt is also characteristic of intelligence. So what happens as we grow spiritually that we start it like faith, there are essentials and then there are non essentials. So we missed our faith in our essentials increases and non essentials even if there are some doubts about it, It doesn’t matter.

We see the doubt as a break and faith as a accelerator. So what happens is, so it could be a discussion about how Krishna is in the center and there could be various pathways by which a person comes to Krishna. The philosophical, the cultural, the social, psychological. Now I’m not saying these 4 are the only pathways. It’s sometimes a combination of 1 or 2 whatever.

But the point is that these are important, but if there is a quake over here. Now we don’t use that to go away from Krishna, but rather we keep running toward Krishna. We understand that, yeah, this, the philosophy is not my shelter. The behavior of devotees is not my shelter. The behavior of devotees is meant to inspire me to take shelter of Krishna.

And sometimes the behavior of devotees does not, then I have to still take shelter of Krishna. Hippropathy was a very devoted wife. She was a devotee of Krishna. She was a devoted wife. Normally, she served with her husbands.

But when her husbands could not give her shelter, husbands were devotees. At that time, she didn’t say, you know, you people are devotees. You can’t protect me. What is the use of my serving you and what is the my use of my serving your lord? Let’s forget it.

No. What happened was this community around her could not support her. So what did she do? She took direct shelter of Krishna. So our faith may be challenged and that time the very source of strength that is there for us, that itself may be shaken.

So we also discussed about the conservative and the liberal. That how there’s a living tradition and there’s a contemporary world. So the liberals are more connected with concern about staying connected with the contemporary world. The conservatives are more concerned about staying connected with the passive tradition. So faithfulness and resourcefulness both are required.

And we see each person will have their nature and accordingly, they’ll prioritize certain things. Then we discussed about what comes after? Ruchi. So in Ruchi, I discussed primarily about how, you know, we have come out of the earth’s gravity pull, and then we have come towards Krishna’s gravity pull or the material world’s gravity pull. So means this point itself is we have come out of that.

And from the point of Ruchi onwards, so we are entering into Krishna’s gravity pull. And from this point onwards, it’s almost like spiritual journey starts becoming feeling like downhill. So it becomes that opposition becomes the any opposing forces inside become much lesser. There may still be opposition, but that opposition is external opposition because we also want to transform the world. So then we discussed about asakti, bhava and prema.

So in that, I discussed about how especially discuss about 3 things over here. One is that how the focus on the person Krishna starts becoming more and more. It’s like initially it is physical gifts, then it is subtle gifts, then it is spiritual gifts, and then after that it is Krishna himself. That’s how we become focused on Krishna. Then I talked about spiritual experiences.

So essentially what happens is it is like either Krishna starts manifesting in our reality or our consciousness goes towards Krishna or our consciousness goes towards Krishna and there is some transformation that is manifested at the physical level. So this spiritual experience starts happening from the bhava stage much and more and more. Now there is spiritual growth, spiritual advancement. I use the word growth more than advancement, because in the in the West people find the word advancement as a very commercial or very like, a mercenary term, like in a professional advancement. They think it’s very mundane.

We use the word growth. So there are immutable symptoms. They are real, but they’re immutable, so we focus on the non immutable symptoms. And the non immutable symptoms is not so much imagining ecstasy or sentimental speculation. It is practical service.

So if we have a real relationship with a real person in this world, then we’ll be really committed to the service. And like that, through this practical service, Krishna will become realer than reality for us. The physical reality around us, Krishna will become a bigger reality than that. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

So should we have some questions? Yes, Prasanna. Any questions? Yes, Provost. Where is the mic?

Soji, like, you told that, after that stage of Ruchi or in the stage of Ruchi, the Susugam Kartavyam, gets to take place. Yeah, go ahead. At the stage of Ruchi, the gets to take place that we are experiencing everything being becoming joyful. We are experiencing more joy. But before that we are not experiencing that then.

What’s I’m not saying not experiencing. It is a mixed experience. It is not constant joyfulness. If there is no joy, we’re not going to continue at all. But it is that joy becomes much more of a natural thing.

See, it is we do experience some joy, some satisfaction, but there is also the struggle. The inner battle is there. Sometimes we struggle. Sometimes we we have relapses. And it is not that, you know, when we have a relapse, that time we also feel happy.

We will feel bad about it. So in that sense, it’s a mixed experience. So when Tharoorva says chant and be happy, you know, there is 2 ways of looking at it. One is that it is it is just one instruction and the other is it is 2 instructions. One instruction is chant and you will become happy.

2nd is chant and try to be happy while you are chanting. What it means is, there is a verse that 17 no, 1222. So what that means is chant and you will become happy. That’s one way of looking at it. Chant, that is one instruction.

Be happy is another instruction. So this particular verse you think 1222. What it says is therefore the wise people, the process of bhakti which gives supreme joy. Vasudevi Bhagwatya and to the lord Vasudevan. Therefore, the wise people practice with great joy the process that gives us supreme joy.

So what does it mean? Is it that the process gives joy, or we have to practice it with joy? So it’s like, say, suppose we have been sick for a long time, and we have got finally a treatment that works. Now we are not yet fully recovered. We’re not healthy.

But still there is a big relief that I finally got a treatment that works. And because the treatment works, I am happy to take the treatment. I look forward to taking the treatment. So in that sense, that that happiness is more of a gratitude that I had the path to recovering. I have the process for recovering, although I have not recovered right now.

So, you know, this is a chant and we’ll become happy. This is broadly the process of bhakti. That means you take the medicine, you will become cured. But this chant and be happy, this is the consciousness we strive for while practicing bhakti. So even while practicing bhakti, we can look at the things that are wrong in our life, and we can say, you know, this on earth has been struggling so long and it’s not going away.

What is the use of practicing bhakti? Or we can say that, actually, I’m this particular anartha is taking time to deal with, but I’m but that anartha has gone down. I have seen that change in my life. I am grateful that I have the process that works. Okay.

So there is joy, but the joy is sometimes something we have to cultivate consciously also. Does that make sense? Yes, Shubhrant, you mentioned that something may be non essential for one person, but then that that may be essential for another person. Can you elaborate it a little more? Because I I feel essential should be the same for everyone.

Of course. Somebody says that, you know, that Krishna is God. That is not essential for me. Well, the that is a core aspect of like Bhakti Radhaka Dha Hatha Dashemul Tatva. Like, Krishna is, is a person.

Krishna is the source of vultrasah. The Vedas are the means by which we come to know about Krishna. The Prema is the ultimate goal of it. There are there are 10 principles that Bhakti Anathakkuk talks about, then those are essentials. But when I’m talking about essential and non essentials, like some devotee may feel that ekadashi means, you know, you have to fast.

And some devotee may fasting nirjal or fasting as strictly as you can. That’s essential. That’s a key principle. Somebody else may say, no, maybe, you know, I have so much service to do and I’m doing this service. It’s okay.

I’ll fast from grains. But I take normal 3 minutes, I’ll take 3 minutes in this day also. So they may not consider that Ikadha should be that important in terms of practicing at that level of strictness. So that’s okay. Some devotees for them, shastric study may be the most important thing.

That is what nourishes me. Everybody needs to study shastra, but you cannot you cannot prescribe what will nourish someone. You see different devotees feel nourished by different things. So for some devotees, shastric study may be the primary source of nourishment. For somebody else, yeah, class is nice.

But after the class, when I sit down and talk with devotees on a one to one level, that’s what nourishes me much more. So we cannot mandate. We cannot legislate what will nourish someone. So in that sense, I’m saying that sometimes what one devotee may consider essential may not be what another devotee considers essential. So, like some devotees may be very driven by the mission of building a temple for Krishna.

Some other devotees may say that, okay, we want to cultivate our community. If we want to make a lot of devotees, temple will come on its own. We don’t want to prioritize that. So, both could be important. And for one devotee, that if the temple is not there, what is what is my service to Krishna?

For some other devotee, you know, is there a temple, but there are no devotees who are dedicated to serve Krishna? What is the point of having a temple? So who is right? You cannot really say one person is right and other is wrong. So within there are there are, of course, certain core essential practices of bhakti.

But beyond that, there may or may not be other things which are considered essential. Is it clear, what I’m saying? So there are many cultural aspects could be there. Say like, Prabhupada says that, say, women should part their heads in a particular way. They should tie their hair.

This, that. Now in the western world, you cannot tell people. People say it’s my autonomy. So devotees may or may not follow certain dress patterns. Just because somebody doesn’t consider the dress pattern as a central thing in bhakti, does that mean they’re not sensuous serious devotees?

For some devotees it may be very important. For some devotees it may not be that important. Now is it important? Of course it is important. But is it the primary thing in bhakti?

For some devotees it may be. For some devotees it may not be. Okay? Please, where’s the mic? Prudhi, in previous lectures we defined vritti as something positive inclination which is to be honed for Krishna.

Then we also hear statements like Patanjali says yoga means or there are like which have vrtti has a negative connotation, sir. Can you just elaborate? See, words have many different meanings in different contexts. Like, Krishna says I come to establish dharma. Krishna says, Isn’t it?

So I come to establish dharma and give up dharma. It doesn’t seem to make sense. So there are 2 different meanings of dharma over there. Krishna says dharma samstapa and arthaya, there he is using dharma to refer to social order, that I come to establish order in society. But when Krishna says sarva dharman prittha jya, there he is saying that you have multiple conceptions of duty.

You have your kshatriya dharma, that is you have to fight against your enemies. You have your kuladharma, that you should protect your kula, you should not destroy your kula and you are torn between these 2 dharmas. So give up all your ideas of what is your dharma and just focus on serving me, and I’ll take care of everything. So there dharma refers to duties. Like, say, sometimes somebody is working in a software company and they may be in 2 projects and one project leader says you have to do this right away and the other person says you have to do this right away.

And the person is told me, what do I do? Say, if you have access to the CEO of the company, and the CEO says, you know, sarodharman pratthaj. Just forget what the team leader says, forget what the team leader says, just do what I’m telling you. But they will be angry with me. I’ll take care of both of them.

So the word dharma has different meanings. So now the word pruti basically means the movements of the mind. In the going down the sutra, the word vrttis used in a positive sense. So the Patanjali Yoga Sutra, it is it is not very clear because it’s a very concise sutra, and it is more guideline about yoga. It does not give a very comprehensive world view.

It’s like if we have a d t worship manual. And the deity worship manual may not give elaborate philosophy over deity worship. It assumes that you already know the philosophy. You just want to know how to worship a deity. So the Yoga Sutra book is for those who want to practice yoga.

Now why to practice yoga? What is the world view behind that? That is not mentioned so much. So there, the idea is that the mind has material desires, and the material desires, if they stop, then the movement of the mind stops. So chitta vrutti.

It’s not just vrutti, it is chitta vrutti, yogas chitta vrutti nirodha. So all movement of consciousness stops. So quite often this verse is taken by impersonalists to say that actually the Yogasutras are impersonalists. But, you know, there is also Ishwar Pranidhan is there, Prapati is there. There are mentions of that also, which do indicate a theistic conception.

But specifically, in the Advaitic conception some you say the AdvaitaVad is what? That we that we become God. That is actually neo AdvaitaVad. They said that like AdvaitaVad is a deviation from Shastra and there is a deviation from AdvaitaVad also. So the the traditional Advaita wad is like Shankaracharya, and they follow they don’t say we have to become God.

That is not our philosophy. They say that we are we are not, theistic. We are not atheistic. We are transtheistic. Transtheistic means what?

Their idea, this is the soul, and say this is God. This is the subject of consciousness. There is the object of consciousness. And then in between there is the stream of consciousness. So, like, right now you’re looking at me.

So if you you are the subject, I am the object. And from you, your consciousness is coming towards me. So generally, in our tradition, we use duality to refer to heat and cold. But they say subject and object is also duality, and you need to go beyond that. So their idea of their idea of going beyond illusion is the subject is Maya, the object is also Maya.

So the idea of Jiva is Maya, the idea of Ishwar is also Maya. So the only thing that is reality is the stream of consciousness. So their idea is that this chitta vrtti, if there is no object, there is no subject. Then there’ll be no movement of consciousness. Because from where will consciousness go and to where will consciousness go?

There’s nothing except consciousness existing. So this is the impersonal idea of liberation, where consciousness just stops moving. That is not the the Vaishnav idea. The Vaishnav idea is Gange vaugam udhanwati. So so the Ganga keeps flowing toward the ocean.

The Ganga reaches the ocean, but still there is water which keeps flowing. So like that, the same metaphor is used by impersonalists and personalists. The impersonalists focus on the act of reaching the destination. The water merges the drop merges with the ocean, the drop is lost. The Vaishnavas focus on the process.

Just as I do just as the river keeps flowing towards the ocean, similar devotees consciousness keeps flowing towards Krishna. So chitta vrtti nirodha is more of the impersonalist idea of liberation. The Vaishnav idea is that How about the gopis that describe that? What is the first line? So the consciousness constantly keeps flowing towards Krishna.

So within the impersonal within the devotional idea, it is that the subject and object are not moha. Our conception of the subject and our conception of the object is the moha. To think that I’m the subject I’m the body, that is moha. And to think that the object will be some sense object in this world, that is moha. So we have to refine our understanding of the subject, and we have to refine our understanding of the object.

The object is Krishna, and the consciousness keeps flowing. Okay? Yes, bro. Okay. Yes.

Very Krishna, Prabhu. Yeah, please. So in morning session we were discussing about Tarangarangani and usamy, that in Tarangarangani we take pleasure in peripheral and usamy we want to sew off. So one thing I wanted to know, can you explain little bit more how to come out of these tendencies? And another thing is that sometime we are told if we are not feeling enthusiastic then we shouldn’t act enthusiastically.

So is that not also kind of showing off or it’s different than, this Tarangarangani and Usami? Okay. So how do we come out of it? It’s not, it’s not something that we can come out of immediately. It is, a gradual process as long as we know that I should not get caught in this.

There’s one devotee who once was doing kirtan in Prabhupada in the same temple. So as Prabhupada was going to take darshan, so Prabhupada just patted him on his shoulder. Nice kirtan. And as Prabhupada was going by, he said, but, Prabhupada, sometimes I feel proud. And Prabhupada just looked at him, smiled.

What’s wrong with that? He was patted him back and went to it. We said, what’s wrong with that? Pride is a demoniac quality. Isn’t it pride is the cause of illusion and bondage?

But the point Prabhupada was making as far as we can understand it is that if we have some pride then it is better that we do something devotional by which we seek respect. Then we do something non devotional and seek respect from non devotees. Isn’t it? Then by doing something devotional, gradually, we’ll start realizing that, say, somebody likes singing and they want to become a very good singer, and they want to be praised by others for how good their kirtan is. That’s fine.

But through that process, gradually, they will start realizing that actually the satisfaction that I get when I glorify Krishna, that is so much more than when others glorify me. But they will get that gradually. So it’s like first it’s like first we start practicing devotional service, then we we start practicing devotional service. That time, it’s mostly like we are only doing the service. Then there is mixed devotional service, and then there is pure devotional service.

So it doesn’t matter. Initially, we may want fame. We may want praise. But the point is we don’t get stuck over there. So like I said, first, we may want physical gifts, then we want subtler gifts, then we want spiritual gifts, then we want only Krishna.

So as long as we understand that, okay, this is the stage I am at, maybe at this stage I need this, but I want to go ahead from this also. So then we’ll be able to move forward. And, what’s the second question? Yeah. So see, it depends on why we are acting.

Between the external and the internal, when there is a difference. And it will always be there. That’s just a part of being human. Sometimes some devotee 1 one devotee told me I mean, many devotees have told me this. You know, if they’re trying to develop a relationship with someone, this happens with husband and wife sometimes many times.

You know, if if I could only see into this person’s mind, I would understand how they think, and then I could understand them better. I could relate with them better. I I often tell you, you know, if we were able to see each other’s minds, not a single relationship would survive. Isn’t it? We all have thoughts and desires and emotions that we are not proud of.

Isn’t it? You know, nature has given us a natural buffer in terms of that what is inside the mind is not visible to everyone. So it is it is a good thing. You know? Otherwise, if we could start seeing each other’s thought, you think like this about me or this kind of desires?

What kind of human being are you? You know? We would just all relationship will be fragrant. So the point is there’s an external internal difference. What is the reason?

That could be at various levels. Now the lowest reason could be deception. Deception means that I I am talking with you sweetly so that I can earn your trust, so that I can stab you in the back. So it’s all very cold and planned and calculated. So this is definitely bad.

We could call this also as hypocrisy. So if we are dealt so that means here, there is a difference between the external and internal, and there is no attempt to even resolve the difference. It is the difference is something which I’m building so that I can exploit it in the future. So sometimes this difference may be because of pacifism. Pacifism means what?

That, you know, I don’t want to confront you. So this is so important for you. I don’t like it, but I just go along with you. So, like, a teenage kid, may not want to come to the temple when the parents want them to go in, but my parents will get upset with me. So although I don’t want, I’ll go there.

And they want me to bow down to the wall, they want to do this prayer, I’ll do it. This is slightly negative, but still you could say this is okay. This is definitely not as bad as as because of deception. Then sometimes it might just be out of culture. Culture means that, see, sometimes we may be very angry with our elders also, but a culture behavior means that I’m allowed to yell at my elders no matter how angry I am.

So that’s a sign of respect. That’s, say, husband and wife may have may be very upset at each other, but if they are quarreling and they see the child suddenly come into the room, both of them, they have that mutual understanding. Let’s let’s not let’s talk about this later. We don’t want to traumatize or trouble our child with our problems. That’s that’s a good thing.

It’s out of culture if certain things we don’t talk in public. Talk in public or in front of those. Now sometimes, it may be out of discipline. Now the difference between culture and discipline is culture is where it’s just the training that we have and that’s what we naturally do, but discipline is more like a conscious intention. So any activity that we do say, suppose somebody was trying to become an athlete, it’s not that every day they look forward to doing a workout.

Every day they like to do their physical training or whatever they do. They may like to play the game, but the training for the game, they may not like it. But discipline means even if I don’t feel it, I want to do it. So here, it’s like although the difference is there, we are trying to decrease the difference. Over a period of time, as the culture is practiced, do we start understanding the other person, the other person starts understanding us.

And then what happens is that respect is not just an external issue. That respect, that affection, that naturally comes. Over a period of time, when we practice discipline, that discipline becomes a habit. We start seeing the benefits. So the external internal difference decreases.

So for us, as a discipline, when we do it, when devotees say, if you don’t you don’t feel like it, still you do it. That’s that’s a good thing. So but we should also be trying to develop the emotion. So when we say somehow or the other, So what does that mean? Sometimes stupid.

Can you see if there is some over here in this? No close. It might be then the outer compartment. See, sometimes we feel our way to actions. That means that I feel like doing something, and therefore I do it.

And sometimes we act our way to feelings. That means by doing the action, the feelings start coming. So in bhakti, both can happen. So means so when you feel, it’s a subtle body. Action is the gross body.

So sometimes the devotional activity, the devotional service, it will start from the subtle body and go to the gross body. Sometimes it will start from the gross body and then go to the subtle body. It depends whichever way it works. Okay? Any other questions?

Yes, bros. Hare Krishna Brew. Thank you for the wonderful class. I wanted to ask about, evolution. As you said about the moon moon theory, there is like, sort of lot of different opinions within our society also.

So, this thing actually I think happens a lot when we, somehow hear the same opinion more number of times. So our mind accepts this at as the prominent opinion or the only opinion. And naturally our mind has a tendency to see things in terms of binary like 1 0 and black and white. So we often reduce the things to very simplistic things. So about evolution, like, many devotees I’ve heard and they have a point also like, Darwin’s theory of evolution has already been debunked.

That we know. And Propath also, like, was heavily against that. And I think Propath was against it because it was pointing towards atheism. But that was the main issue. But then there is a new concept of theistic evolution where they say that Darwin’s evolution is wrong and even biologists don’t approve of it.

But right now, the evolution, concept that is there, in that they say that, it is like very different approach. And they have lots of evidences also to explain it. Like bacteria developing some mechanisms when they are in nylon and other things. That’s okay. I’ll just explain that.

So, see, the term evolution itself is a slippery term. So what do we mean by the term? That’s important to understand. So there is no universally accepted, even within mainstream science, there is no one absolutely accepted definition of evolution that will describe all its usages, But broadly, we could divide into 3 parts. One is evolution as observation or as observed phenomena.

Now there is no debating with that. Like when the COVID pandemic was there, the virus mutated. So this happens all the time in laboratories, and there are devotees also who are working in these fields. So there’s observed mechanism. So now one of the skills that Krishna learned among the 64 skills was planned breeding.

Now how do you take roses, there’s a bright red rose and there’s a yellow rose. Can you bring the 2 roses together and create a rose of a different color? So that Krishna also learned. It’s cross breeding. So basically, we have no issue with observe with something that is an observed phenomena.

Krishna himself learned about it. So this is perfectly okay. 2nd is evolution as a inferred mechanism, that species change. That is something which is observed. Now does that mean that there is a causal mechanism that can explain everything about the species?

So, you know, there is survival of the fittest or survival of species, but survive a mechanism that explains the survival of species, does it necessarily explain the arrival of the species? They are 2 different things. So is the inferred mechanism true? Well, the evidence for one species changing into another species, The evidence for that is extremely thin. Now, of course, evolutionists can argue that this happens over cosmic time, the very vast time scale, then we can’t observe it.

There may be some truth to that. Now we may say that we have seen some fossils of some intermediary species, But the question is how do we not know that how do we know that that is an intermediate species? It could very well be that was a species that was existing, and that’s not existing now. That this was a species between this and that. So the point is, could it be an inferred mechanism?

It could be. But is it the evidence for this is not very strong? Both the evidence is not very strong, even the theoretical mechanism of how it could happen. There are many things talked about. There’s sexual selection, and there is see, natural selection was only one of the mechanisms which Darwin proposed.

Now many species many scientists talk about sexual selection, and there are other mechanisms talked about. Genetic nutrition is one of the most prominent, mechanism we are talking about, but whether mutation can bring about a completely new species. The jury is out for that. The evidence for evolution as an inferred mechanism is fairly thin, not just in terms of the evidence, but in terms of the in the theoretical mechanism how it could happen. So now even if this is true, that itself is it doesn’t really create a problem for the Vedic tradition.

The Vedic tradition does describe as the species came from, say, in a particular way. From Brahmaji, this came, and that came, and that came, but none of those are describing how the species appeared on the earth. So cosmically or at the level of cosmos, the species may have appeared at a particular place in a particular way, but after that, on Earth, they could have appeared in a way that might be compatible with evolution. I’m not saying that it is how it happened. I’m saying that there is it is not intrinsically incompatible.

That is not supporting the theory, but that is also saying that if the theory is true, that does not falsify Shastra. Now the real problem is where evolution becomes an all explaining ideology, where evolution becomes a tool for rejecting God. So we no longer need God because evolution is true. Now most scientists, serious scientists, even evolutionists will say that we don’t present we don’t support this, but unfortunately, evolution has been used by atheists to try to debunk the idea of God. So it is at this level where evolution becomes an alternative explanation, which leaves no room for God.

That is what we are primarily against. So and Prabhupada’s critique, if you see in even the book from book, Life Comes from Life, Life Comes from Life, if you look at the original transcript, because what happened is Prabhupada had an elaborate discussion and not all of that was published. The devotees wanted to keep the book of a manageable size, so they selected some of the conversation. So if Prabhupada in the elaborate book, if you see other transcript within the Vedas, if you see over there, what Prabhupada says is that we are not against the knowing spirit of the scientist. Knowing spirit means spirit of wanting to know.

We are against their atheism. So now is atheism intrinsic to evolution? Well, it depends on which aspect of evolution are we talking about. If we consider if we mean evolution as observation or observed phenomena, there’s not the atheistic about it. If we refer to evolution as an inferred mechanism, well maybe it is true.

We could say it like the theory of gravity. A theory of gravity itself does not disprove the existence of God. So like that could it be a mechanism that God has created by which the, by which the species manifest in this world? Maybe it is. That’s what you’re talking about, theistic evolution.

Maybe it could be. It doesn’t intrinsically challenge God’s existence, but is the theory as strong as Newton’s laws of motion? Definitely not. The evidence for that is quite weak. So the evidence for the first as an observed mechanism sorry, as an observed phenomena, that’s very strong, and there’s no need to to challenge that or confront that.

But the real issue is with when evolution becomes an explanatory alternative to God, and there it leaves no room for God. It almost like exile exiles God to scientific nonexistence. That is where we have a serious issue with it. Okay. So now some devotees may say the inferred mechanism is also not acceptable for us because Shastra doesn’t teach it.

Okay. That’s what so that could be a more conservative explanation, and that’s what some devotees may accept. Some devotees may say, okay, we don’t really know. Because in the Bhagavatam itself there are different places where the specific origin of species in the universal sequence itself. The way it is described in 3rd canto is slightly different from what is described in 6th canto, which suggests that the species evolve in different ways, during different ukas.

So so is the inferred evolution as an inferred mechanism for bringing about the manifestation of various species on earth possible? It may be possible. So I think there are 3 different things over here. That first is, is the evidence for evolution as a mechanism strong enough on scientific terms? That’s a question which science itself has to answer.

Even if the evidence is strong enough, is there an is there a satisfactory, explanatory mechanism for how it will happen? See, first is, did it actually happen this way? 2nd is, if you say it happened, that is there a mechanism by which you can explain that, how it happened? Because science, the specialty of science, is not just that it can make things happen. It is also that it can explain the mechanism by which things happen so that it can be repeated.

The miracle of science is not just that this power the light is on or we can I have message on Zoom? The miracle of science is that this can be understood and repeated. So evolution as an inferred mechanism that’s when the evidence, not just the evidence, but the explanatory theoretical explanation has to be there. And 3rd aspect is if there is a theoretical explanation, does that rule God out? Does that contradict the Vedic scriptures?

Does it contradict the Vedic conception of God? See in our tradition, I would say the Christian tradition has much more problem with evolution than what we have. And it’s not a criticism of Christianity. It’s just that Christianity is a very history centered tradition. Now of course Christians also try to interpret the 7 days of creation in metaphorical ways and all that, but, you know, there it is it is much more difficult.

In our tradition, God is also time. Krishna also manifests as time. So if Krishna if Krishna is not just acting once in creation, at the start to set the creation motion, but Krishna is acting as Kalam, then Krishna can bring about changes in nature. Krishna can bring about changes in organisms so that they can adapt to the changes in nature also, and that would be still within Krishna’s plan. So again, I am not saying that this is how it happened, but I am saying that it doesn’t have to be incompatible.

So if the inferred mechanism so this, it’s okay. This is question mark. This is an absolute no. And for mechanism, we’ll have to consider 3 factors. Is the evidence there?

Is there a mechanism for it? And then, is that compatible? Compatible firstly with theism and then compatible with Vedic Shastra, or you could say Vedic theism. So I would say it’s a nuanced question if you go deeper into what evolution means. Okay?

Thank you. Okay. We will I don’t want to go to overtime. Who else? Yes, go behind.

Hi, Krishna, go. Many times we hear heart and mind. So is it like they are different or What is different? Heart and mind. We know that also is it like in the conceptual understanding of mind, is it different or same?

So it’s a little complicated question, but I’ll try to answer it as simply as I can. The term heart itself has two different meanings. There’s a biological organ, you know. If somebody says you broke my heart, and other person says let me do an x-ray to check. The first one say I feel like breaking your head now.

Isn’t it? So there’s a biological organ, the heart, and then there is the seat of emotion. Whatever it is. So most of the time when we use the word heart, see, we may show the symbol of the heart, which can further lead to the confusion. Isn’t it?

But we are not referring to the biological organ heart. So the word heart has two different meanings. So now what happens is that for us the seat of emotion can be the mind or it can be the soul. So there is no such thing as a distinct entity or object called the heart within the Vedic conception of the self. So when while we are in the material conception of life, for most of us, our emotions, they exist over a range.

So, like, I talked about superficial desires and deep rooted desires. So superficial desires, they come in the mind, they stay for some time, they go away. And there are deep rooted desires. So for example, if we have a particular varna, if we have particular nature, then acting according to that nature is a very deep rooted aspiration. It is not just a superficial desire.

So like that we can say that there are we have emotions which are associated with us at various levels. So when we are not very spiritually evolved, our initially we could say, when you are spiritually unevolved, often our mind is the same as the heart at this stage. But as we become spiritually evolved, then the it is the soul. That means or rather put it another way, when we are spiritually unevolved, our heart is filled with material emotions. When you can spiritually evolve, our heart is filled with spiritual emotions.

So for those who are very advanced, then what happens is their emotions are largely spiritually centered. So then sometimes so this is a broad conceptual understanding, but in actual life the terms may be used not so black and white. So for example, Mahaprabhu says So what does he mean? Now the mind itself has become spiritualized. That means that while the mind isn’t as a material tool in the material world, but even that material tool can become filled with spiritual emotions.

So the seat of emotions, the center of my emotions is all all like it is in Vrindavan which is centered on Krishna. Okay? So Hare Krishna. Go one more question. So like we know that soul is situated in the heart and consciousness is spread spreaded throughout the body.

So, like, so is there any specific, reference or we can say that mind is situated, throughout the body or like that? Well, first of all, whether the soul is situated in the heart is open to debate. The soul is situated in the region of the heart. See the soul is a spiritual entity. Whether a spiritual entity even needs a physical location, that’s open to question.

So basically within Sankhya, the idea is that there are these 5 vayus, which are like 5 vectors prana, apaan, samanya, an udan, and the 5 vayus, they are like 5 vectors, and the 5 vectors pull in different directions. And very simplified understanding, but the neutral point of all those 5 vectors is where the soul floats, and generally it is in the region of the heart. But it doesn’t have to be there all the time. There is the whole concept of Kundalini where the prana rises and the soul is situated at the center of the prana. So does the soul rise also?

It depends. So I would say that that doesn’t have to be like a where generally the soul is in the region of the heart, but that doesn’t mean that there can’t ever be any exception. The soul is not tied to a physical location. Now, with respect to the mind, I haven’t been able I haven’t come across any specific praman for this, but I’ll make an inference. It’s like if you consider the earth, water, fire, air ether, these are the 5 gross elements.

Now are they situated at a particular place in the body? Well, they are distributed, isn’t it? So there is no reason to say that the gross elements, if they are distributed, the subtle elements have to be localized. The subtle elements could also be distributed. So like if you consider, say, the ego.

You know, some people, for them, their ego ego is, at a sense, my sense of identification. For some people, their ego may be very much identified with their face, how I look. For some people, their ego may be very much identified with their biceps. For somebody, their ego may be identified with the particular bodily organ. So the ego, the sense of identity, that may vary.

For some people, it might be with their brain, their IQ. For some people, it might be their physical their running ability, their playing ability. So that so that would mean that while the ego is distributed throughout the body, but it may be concentrated in a particular region because of which they identify a lot with that. So with this, the same could apply to the mind also. Like, we also say that there is different kinds of intelligences, isn’t it?

Some people have a high musical intelligence, some people have a high interpersonal intelligence, some people have a high verbal intelligence. So now we consider that just a physical faculty. It’s an ability. Not physical, it’s an ability. Yes, it is in some way connected with buddhi, but now is the buddhi localized or is it distributed?

My understanding is it distributed and it may be concentrated more in particular areas, which may be gross or it may be subtle because see these are subtle elements. Like, if you consider a computer. Now where is the software in the computer? Well, you could say that it is the softwares in this particular drive. Okay.

But, you know, the drive is a conceptual thing. At least in modern computers, you know, you open the hardware, you don’t see this is c drive and this is d drive. Isn’t it? That’s so you could say once if there there’s a virus in the computer. So is the virus in this particular location?

Has the virus gone throughout? So these are the when you take the subtle and try to talk about the subtle software is subtle and hardware is relatively gross. So it’s not that simple to correlate it. So I would go in the favor of that. It is it is generally distributed, but it may be localized in the sense that it’s concentrated in particular areas.

Now while depicting, we may depict it as, you know, it’s around the soul, but that depiction is not so much about the physical location as it is more of the conceptual nature, that the subtle body is closer to the soul, the gross body is further away from the soul. So it’s more to depict not the location as the, as the proximity. Okay. Okay. Wow.

How much time do we have? Sorry. Where is the mic? Who has not asked till now? Yeah, please.

We’ll stop by 7:30. Is that okay? Yeah. Hi, Krishna, bro. So, bro, one one thing I wanted to ask about, can you tell about Nishthit bhajan kriya and Anishthit bhajan kriya?

Where do they fall in the like, this bhakti journey that you that we discussed? And Well, Nishthit bhajan kriya is only associated from Nishtha onwards. Anishtudhbhajan kriya is before Anathana Naruthi. Okay. So because we have not ourselves experienced the transformation, so we are still, you know, a little iffy.

Maybe I should do this, maybe I should not do it. Like, if I have taken a treatment for 15 days, but I have not seen much effect, then I ask, should I continue this treatment? Should I not continue the treatment? But, say, if I’ve done it for, say, 3 months and I’ve seen the change, then I feel much more inspired to continue it. And, like, we have heard about this, dushkirtuta and, dushkirtuta, the avradhas leading to, you know, dushkirtuta, all these.

Are they part of unearthni vritti or they are part of like, where do they fall and, shall we have to cross them also or they are under these 6 stages of unearthni vritti? Can you explain this? Aparadota and all these things. See, the thing is that k. So the thing is that, it’s, different acharyas have analyzed things in different ways, and sometimes it’s not so easy to, like, take one conceptual frame and put it on another conceptual frame.

Like, say, we he said that there are 4 kinds of people who come to Krishna. But then Bhakti Rudakkur also take note that people approach God at 4 different levels: fear, desire, duty, and love. Though can we really equate fear, desire, duty, and love with artho, jiggyasur, artharthi, and jnani? It’s not that simple. Some people say that, you know, fear, desire, duty, love are associated with but then it’s not that simple.

So is it that every single person who is Artharthi is in Rajoguna only? Like somebody may be in Sathoguna, but their their child may be very sick and they need some treatment for their child urgently. And they come to God, please please arrange for some Lakshmi. That may not be Rajasik at all. It’s not that they want a bigger house than their competitor or something like that.

So we can use conceptual frames, and they do work, but we cannot reduce reality to conceptual frameworks. Like any conceptual framework is like a map. A map can help us navigate the territory, but the map is not the territory. And, you know, when you say this is the bond this is the border. This is where Bengal ends.

This is where Orissa starts. If you’re traveling along, there might be not a neat boundary. Now Bengal has ended at this particular point. If you say this river separates the 2. Okay.

Does that mean half of the water of the river is in Bengal, half of the water belongs to Orissa? And it’s like a vast river. Where is the half line of the water? It’s just life is not that simple. So that’s what I’m saying that conceptual frames when we use, there’s no need to become too technical about those things.

Having said that, with respect to the aprads, generally speaking, if you go to the foundational definition of aparad, aparad is that which turns us away from Radha, from Krishna, from the energy which connects us with Krishna. Or another way to understand the aparad is that the underlying principle of apra is that that which is spiritual, we see it as material. We devalue something spiritual. So from that perspective, we can say that generally aparads would not happen once such person is going to the level of ruchi from that point onwards. But it is possible in rare cases that somebody may exhibit some ego and they may fall, but generally the aparads are more likely in the anartanivrtta stage or before.

But once the anarthas are gone, they are less likely. So while there is a there is a conceptual framework for analysis, but I wouldn’t go into, like, a very rigid correlation. We can’t say that somebody at Bhaav can never commit a prata. It’s very very unlikely, But there might be possibility for that, ma’am. Okay?

Okay. One last question. There was something here. Okay. Let me stop with this..

Hare Krishna, Prabhu. I have a confusion. Like in the Shastra we have the 10 avatars of Lord Vishnu. So like, in the Darwin theory also life started from the water and the first incarnation of Vishnu started like matsha. So is it the right concept to believe, like, life started from, like, matsha and after that complex evolved?

And, like, is it the right concept or wrong? I have this confusion. See, science and scripture are 2 distinct bodies of knowledge, and sometimes some attempts are made to try to have some, like, creative correlation between the two. Now what is the point of that going to create a correlation? Bhakti Sanathata Gurud also talked about this.

So at one particular point, in one one conversation, he mentions this. The point of it is to say that that the idea of evolution itself, it is not unprecedented. That that does in Prabhupada also talked about spiritual evolution. The soul goes from lower bodies to higher bodies. That is also evolution.

So we could make some creative correlations. Now is that an indication that the creative correlation is possible? Does that mean that a theory itself is true or the theory is taught by the Vedas? No, that is a very different point. Because if you consider the aquatics, the ideas that life within theory of evolution, it began with aquatics and then other species came about.

But when the aquatics were there, there were no other species. But if you see within the Vedic tradition, Matsya avatar is described. At that time, the human beings were also there. I said, like, the Lord came as a fish, but that does not mean there were no human beings. So just that there is some creative similarity between the Shautars and between the Darwin theory of evolution or at least some aspects of theory of evolution.

That itself cannot be used to say that the theory is true or that theory is predicted in the Vedas or that theory is supported by the Vedas. No, it’s a creative correlation that is in just interesting to note. It does not, it itself does not establish the theory is truthness or the theory is validity. K? So thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

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Sorry for the slight delay in reaching home. So let’s do a quick recap. What was the what is the broad topic we are discussing? Sorry. One person.

Sorry? Bhakti journey. Yeah. The journey of bhakti. And which particular section within that?

Anartha nivritti. And what are the parts of Anartha nivritti we discussed till now? Vishayasangra, Yudha Vikalpa, Himagraha, and yes. So not Tarangrangini. We discussed?

Kantarna. Correct. So the idea is when we are trying to move from this world toward Krishna, there are 2 distinct aspects to this. One is that we want to turn away from Maya, and we also want to turn toward Krishna. So till now primarily we discussed the challenges involved in turning away from Maya.

And now we are going to focus on the challenges in turning toward Krishna. So within that we’ll be focusing on specifically the, aspects in which we can, what makes us consistent or what can make us consistent and what prevents consistency in the practice of bhakti. So yesterday, we finished the discussion on the topic of how there might be moodiness. Our moods sometimes work with us and sometimes they don’t work with us. So sometimes they are favorable, sometimes they are unfavorable.

So in that situation moving forward is difficult. Okay, sorry. So now we will move forward to discuss the 2 remaining stages today and we’ll be continuing this series on day after tomorrow morning. Tomorrow we are going out and today evening we will have a Prabhupada faith and doubt session. So day after tomorrow morning we will continue and conclude where we will talk about the remaining nishthaar ji, asakti bhau.

We’ll talk about them briefly in our last session. But here, if we consider Anarthi Nuriti to be a fairly long climb. So there are broadly two aspects. We could see the against some are related with Anarthas and we could say the other relate with the Artha. So the Anarthas can in one sense both are related to the only in one sense.

Anarthas can pull us towards that which is inauspicious and they can also pull us away from what is auspicious. So the Anarthas work in both ways. So we discussed 3 phases of the Anarthas which the Vishayasagara, then the and then near Mahakshima. So these are now see I’m giving a particular way of analyzing this. This need not be the only way to analyze.

Nirmakshama could be that not just the inability to follow the rules with respect to his sensual restraint. It could also be the rules of connecting with Krishna. I just feel I can’t do it. But when we keep everything very broad, then nothing becomes clear. That’s why we are trying to analyze it in a little bit of a more of a progress, distinct sense.

So here we discussed about ghanatarna. That sometimes I feel like practicing bhakti, sometimes I don’t feel like practicing bhakti. And today I’ll talk about Tarangarangini. Tarangarangini is the peripherals. We delight in peripherals.

And then there is utsahamayi. So now utsahamayi, it is more like showing off. So while both of these have some similarity, there is some difference also in it. So it is that let’s take some examples to illustrate this point. Many of us know about the Amrut Manthan Leela.

When the churning was going on initially poison came out. And then what happens is that on that journey first there is bad. And if you want to go towards what is the best, so the bad has to be given up. But then the good also has to be given up. So the bad was the poison, But the good was many celestial gifts came up.

At that time, some damsels like Urvashi came out or some other damsels came out. Many wonderful things came out from there. But they were also distractions. And Lord Rishu told them, wait. The best was finally the nectar that came out.

Even in the path of yoga, it is described that as the person comes towards samadhi, at that time they start getting mystic siddhis. And those siddhis are also considered to be peripheral benefits. The purpose of yoga, traditionally at least, it’s a means for transcendence, means for self realization. But somebody can gain mystic powers and they can become very famous. Oh, you know, this person can lift stone, this person can produce this substance, this person can do that.

And somebody can actually do that. Many people may just pretend. Some people may actually be able to do it. But by that they get fame in the world, but they may get still caught in the world. Fame is after all still a material thing.

So they get the material thing and they may lose transcendence over there. So on every in every spiritual path it is described that the spiritual path can sometimes pose some material challenges, but the sometimes the spiritual path can also give some material blessings. And those material blessings, what does one do with them? That is the test. Now that is one possibility.

It’s like somebody is going on the spiritual path, but along the spiritual path they get diverted. So they get diverted means that they get these are material benefits on the spiritual path. So this is the spiritual perfection. Now there are 2 possibilities here that somebody is sincere. Sincere in the sense that they start off with the ultimate goal in mind, spiritual perfection.

But then by the time they get here, they get distracted. So they are sincere but distracted eventually. Now the other possibility is that somebody might from the beginning itself be insincere or duplicitous. That means they come, they’re right now from the beginning only their goal is this only. So they come thinking that I’ll get these material benefits.

So Krishna talks about this as a demoniac mentality. He talks about 16.15, 16, 17, he talks about this. He says, such people So he says that they do means to do Now we do But they do Yagna for Naam. They do Yagna so that they can get name and fame and glory. And there are unfortunately people like this.

So this is almost you can call it a paradox. This is demoniac devotion. Now we can say how can devotion ever be demoniac? It is devotion done with demoniac motives. Now can bhakti purify them also?

Well, bhakti can purify everyone, but bhakti will purify if the person wants to be purified. If the person doesn’t want to be purified at all, then it’s not going to work, because Krishna never overrides a person’s free will. Now we can say there are some stories where, you know, somebody is attracted to Krishna, there’s a thief who’s attracted to Krishna saying that Krishna has such expensive ornaments. So let me go and, steal those ornaments from Krishna. And he comes to Krishna and then he gets attracted to Krishna.

It’s a sweet story. Now the important thing over here is that particular thief, he goes to Vrindavan in search of Krishna, but there is no description that he deliberately pretends to be a devotee. He just when he comes to Krishna also, he is straight interested in the jewels. So Krishna can purify even demoniac people, but not demoniac people who are holding on to the demoniac desires and that’s the only reason they have come there. Sooner or later, they need to give up those desires.

So there are multiple examples we can give of people who had some ulterior motives. They had less than stailler motives, but they got purified. So if you can consider, there is transcendence and generally this is transcendence. And then there is Satwa, Rajas and Tamas. So you remember we talked about how for some people, God is the means and the world is the end.

So it one possibility is that somebody anybody from Sattva can come towards Krishna, anybody from Rajas can come towards Krishna, anybody from Tamas can also come towards Krishna. In the sense that Krishna is open to everyone. Somebody might be an alcoholic and they see some devotees chanting and dancing. And they think, okay, let me also dance. Let me also sing something.

And they are they are experiencing some level of Krishna. So that is possible. Now another possibility is somebody in Satwa may turn to Krishna for getting the Satvik goal. Somebody in Rajas may turn toward Krishna for getting the rajasik goal. Somebody in Thomas may turn toward Krishna to get their tamasik goal.

These 2 are different dynamics. One is I’m interested in Krishna and where I am is different. The other is I’m interested in where I am and Krishna can be a tool for me to get it. So if we consider this, the example for this is, performed great austerities. This is described in 3rd canto and then in fact the austerity is such that, Lord Vishnu came and Lord Vishnu shed tears, seeing his austerities.

That is how the Bandhu Madhu Sarovar is said to have formed. And when he sees Lord Vishnu, what does he say? No, I want a life partner. And then the now we may say if he’s already seen Lord Vishnu, why does he need a life partner? Well, it is not that everybody will necessarily be immediately attracted to the Lord.

Now if you see, that was not ordinary mundane lust. See sometimes we just everything one tendency in spiritual life is to be very reductionistic. Reductionistic means what? That, like, some small kid, they discover a kid discovers a hammer. If I’m with the hammer, what do you do?

Oh, that nail is coming out. It is it is hurting me. The nail has disappeared. This hammer is very powerful. So what happens?

Once you start the child discovers the power of a hammer, then every problem becomes a nail to be hit. But every problem is not a nail to be hit with a hammer. So in Sanskrit, this is called as. In modern logic is called as single factor analysis. Single factor analysis means that we reduce any issue to only one factor.

And we don’t consider other factors involved over there. So if some problem is there, what is the cause of the problem? And everybody is vulnerable everybody is prone to single factor analysis because that’s just the tendency of the mind. So what do I mean by single factor analysis? That, say, for example, somebody is, nowadays with feminism rising, there is a lot of concern that women are not paid as much as men.

Female salaries less than male salary. Now that is true. But is it because of gender discrimination? That could be one explanation. But it is also possible that, you know, women and men work in different professions.

Generally, women like to work where they can interact with people. Men often like to work with things. And in working with things, then the profession is scalable. Like somebody is doing writing a software program. You can write a software program, that program can be replicated.

But a woman is in nursing. You can only nurse so many people. That is not scalable. So I’m not saying this is a full explanation. But the point is, like, if somebody is a very aggressive feminist, and as soon as they see any discrimination difference, oh, this is because of feminism.

Maybe it is, maybe it is not. It depends. I’m not saying that that explanation is wrong. It’s definitely a possibility. But single factor analysis means that we reduce okay, why is there fanaticism?

Islam is a terrible religion. Well, but then you see the biggest victims of Islamic fanaticism are Muslims. You know, Shias and Sunnis, they have killed each other more than they have killed people of other religions, at least in recent history. You can go further. So if it is Islam, then both sides are Islam only, isn’t it?

So is that the only cause? Well, that is definitely one cause to say Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. That is going to be too politically correct. But to say that, you know, Islam is the cause of all Islamic terrorism. Well, okay, Indonesia is a very peaceful version of Islam.

Indonesia, so that is also Islam only. People are following it. So some people may say that. Same way. Hinduism means the caste system.

Hinduism is a terrible religion because it religiously sanctions and mandates discrimination. Okay. Yes. Hinduism has been associated with caste system. But, you know, when people get converted to Christianity, even among Christians there are castes.

Now they may not officially recognize the caste, but it’s more mentality of people rather than something coming from religion. It’s more of a social cultural issue than a religious issue. So the point I’m making is single factor analysis can always be a problem. So when a male and a female are attracted to each other why am I talking about all this? So Kasyap Muni Kartamuni, sorry.

Kartamuni wants a wife. But if you see, even after he gets a wife, he just continues doing his austerities for several years. And his wife keeps serving him faithfully. And so there is a need for a relationship, but it’s more for a it’s there is no sexual component to the relationship, or that’s not what is driving him at that particular time. Eventually, of course, they have a child, but so the thing is, all male female attraction to say it is only because of sex.

Well, that is a significant factor. But to say that that is all that is there, that may not always be true. So it is a material desire, but the fact is that it is not a rajasik desire. I mean the difference is clear that he still allowed to do austerity. He just felt that, you know, I need a partner with whom I can do the austerities.

And that partner is, he wants a female partner. So man and woman are made to be complementary in some ways. So he had a sattvic desire, but what happened eventually his devotion led him to, okay he had a child, then eventually he renounced the world. That time, so the attachment took its own time to go away. Now Rajas, the example is Dhruva Maharaj.

Now Dhruva performed severe austerities, but what was his driving motive for that? To gain a kingdom. It was not a tamasic desire. A tamasic desire would be that I will get a bigger kingdom than my father’s and I’ll attack my father’s kingdom, I’ll destroy that kingdom, I’ll take over that kingdom. It was a competitive desire, but it was not a destructive desire.

So the competition doesn’t have to be tamasik. Competition is, oh, you are good, I want to become better than you. Or destructive competition, you are good. It’s not that I will become better than you, I will make sure that you become worse than me. So that is not very positive.

Mhmm. So it was a rajasic desire. But eventually, he had contact with the Lord and he became purified. It took him time. Now, with the Dhruva, it was not during the practice of bhakti that he became purified.

It was it took time for him when he had the darshan of the Lord. That was the time he felt this was not worth it. But then we have another story of Poorvara. Now Puru was very captivated by Urvashi. And then when Urvashi left him, he actually did a yagna to Vishnu.

And then Vishnu came in front of him. And he saw Vishnu and he said, please grant me Urvashi. Now we may say that, why? If Vishnu is there, why is he still desiring Urvashi? Well, sometimes some desires may be very strong.

And it is to his credit that he did not simply use his rajasik power to try to attack the Gandharvas and try to take her away from force. He prayed to Vishnu. Now he got. Now what happened was, still after that, eventually in material life, whatever desires we have, they will disappoint us. Sometimes, see when we say there is this word there’s distress.

The distress can range from disappointment to devastation. So disappointment means I seek what I want, I get it, but it’s not good enough. And devastation means what I get is the opposite of what I dreamt. So the distress in the world doesn’t always have to be devastation. Like somebody’s, oh, I thought this will be my dream job or this will be my dream life partner.

And and then it is possible that the job is good, this relationship is good, but it is not what all I dreamt about. So there is a disappointment, and that disappointment leads to some dissatisfaction. But dissatisfaction is not the same as devastation. So for Harshishok, for Chitraketu, when Harshishok died, was it a disappointment? No.

To call it a disappointment is a disappointing use of vocabulary. It was a devastation. So distress doesn’t mean everybody this world is a place of distress, doesn’t mean that everybody is devastated. Sometimes life just does not live up to our expectation and that leads to dissatisfaction. So it can range from over a range.

So for him eventually what happened, he felt that this is not enough for me. Then because he had darshan of the Lord, he got purified and then he focused on Vishnu and he became a pure devotee. So for for Dhruva it happened faster. For Urva for Purva it happened a little slower. Now with respect to Tamoguna, there is the example of Diti.

She had a desire that I want to have a child who will kill Indra because Indra arranged for my sons Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakashipu to be killed. So she performed austerities and then she was told that you do this this, vrata, which is for the pleasure of Lord Vishnu. And she still had a negative desire, but over a period of time that desire went away. So in Shastra itself it is described that bhakti has its effects but it may take time. So now this is, we may say how is all this related with Tarangarangini?

So Tarangarangini, that looking for pleasure in peripherals. It can I said it can happen in 2 ways? 1 is, one comes only for the peripherals, and the second is, one may come with a pure motive, but one gets attracted by the peripherals. Now we may say if somebody is practicing bhakti, how can they get attracted by the peripherals? Okay.

Is it that somebody one has a pure motive earlier and then the motive becomes impure? Well it’s not that simple. It’s that life provides us different temptations at different times. So when a temptation comes at that time we have to say no to it. Now somebody might be a very, reserved kind of person before.

You know, that person doesn’t is not very outgoing, doesn’t talk very much, has never been very popular. And then because that person was like that, even they they may not even have, like, a big desire for popularity. But then they become a devotee, and then they become a speaker, they become a counselor wherever they go. You know, people bow down to them, people surround them, people want to talk with them. Then they get a taste of popularity.

They didn’t have that before. Now they get the taste for popularity and then they start already infatuated by that. So when the particular temptation comes, that is the time when that test comes in their life. So sometimes somebody may get sidelined by that. So basically, so pleasure or delight in peripherals.

So delight in peripherals. It can happen that is our starting motive itself. That’s one possibility. The other is that is a distraction on the path. It can happen in both ways.

Now either way when this happens, at that time it needs to be dealt with. So now that’s why if we say So this wealth, fame and sensual pleasure. So these three things, they are typical distractions. Now wealth means say a devotee becomes influential, Then people make your donations. You’re going to build a temple.

So then people give donations. And then normally there has to be some system of accountability, even temples have to be audited. But somebody may get infatuated, this is my money. This is money which I have raised, but doesn’t mean it’s my money. But somebody may start using that wealth or abusing that wealth.

So this way there are peripherals that may come. Generally, when these peripherals come, at that time what can happen is that it’s not that the person gives up Krishna to pursue the peripherals. That is rare. That can also happen, but that doesn’t happen so easily. Because they will not give up Krishna because it is due to their connection with Krishna or at least due to the public perception of their connection with Krishna that they’re getting these things.

Isn’t it? That it is people are respecting this person because they are a devotee. So so what happens is that such a person may apparently be practicing very serious devotion. Serious devotion means what? That at least the external practice appears very serious.

That person may fast nirjal o nikadashi. That person may wake up and come very much in time for mangalarthi. But it is so that everybody will respect me, and I am such a serious devotee. And then I’m a serious devotee, by then what happens? Everybody will follow me submissively.

So what happens is human even humility, it can be a means to Krishna. Now when we are not so filled with ourselves, then if we are self conscious, we can’t be Krishna conscious. So in that sense, for us humility is, okay, I am part of Krishna. Let me focus on how I can serve Krishna. But humility can also be a means to power.

How? Because if I am humble in front of my seniors, then I can demand similar humility from my juniors. So the more I show my humility to others, the more I can demand humility from my juniors. So it is subtle and sometimes it may not even be consciously done. It may not be done consciously with a cynical motive.

But it is it is just it works like that. So now this can come in in every area of life. In the western world and even in India, there is a lot of suspicion about what they call as organized religion. There’s a whole group of people who say we are SBNR. Anyone has heard this acronym?

SBNR? Yes. I’m spiritual but not religious. So what their idea is that, yeah, I want to meditate, I want to experience some higher reality, but I don’t want to be a part of a religious organization. So now there are now we could say, see whenever people have certain mentalities.

So if somebody is of this particular mentality, organised religion, so that we could look at it from a negative perspective, from a positive perspective. The negative perspective is they just don’t want to surrender. They just want to avoid authority. And spiritual life means we like in any field, if you want to grow, if you want to become an expert athlete, there is a coach. We need to let the coach mold us.

So now this is one way of looking at it. And you remember earlier I talked about the political right and the political left. So the right is concerned with, does anyone remember? Yes. The right is concerned with individual responsibility.

The left is concerned with social responsibility or social justice. That’s the big moment. So now one simple way to understand the difference between the right and left is that the right is concerned with what is right in the existing system, in the existing culture, in the existing tradition, and they want to preserve it. So the right is concerned with what is right in the existing tradition, culture, system. Whereas the left is concerned about those who are left out by the current system, structure, culture, tradition.

So for example, there’s some hierarchical society. In any way it is. So capitalism is a hierarchical society. So there are people who are wealthy, they own the capital, and there are people who are poor. So now if there it’s a straightest society, you know, this capitalism works.

It has led to prosperity. And if you look at modern history, capitalism is the only system that actually led to any prosperity. When India had too much government regulations, India after liberalization has got some wealth. Now of course, whether that wealth has led to happiness is a different question. But at least this wealth has come in.

So capitalism so there is the system the left is concerned about. But what about the poor? You’re saying the poor are becoming poorer and poorer. The gap between the wealthy and poor is increasing. So of course, there’s a middle class which is coming, and that is a typical feature of modern society.

But the point is that left and right, every society needs both. Every society needs to preserve what is done being done right, but every society also needs to care for those who are left out by it, by the existing system. So left and right both are required in society. So now, in general, with respect to organized religion, so those on the right, they will say that this system has worked for 1000 of years. There are so many spiritual seekers who have grown by the system.

And if you don’t want to be a part of system, that is your problem. You are unsurrendered. You are whimsical. You are independent minded. And that is why you are not also surrendered.

Right. Is that a possibility? Definitely that’s a possibility. So those who are right on the right, they will put the responsibility on individual. You need to get get into shape.

But those who are on the left, they will consider, is the system really working as well as you say it is or is there something wrong? So they would say that in the name of religion, there is so much corruption that happens. There are so many self interested people who use and abuse religion for their own purposes. And I don’t want to go into a whole different distraction, but I’m just going to make this point over here. That see whenever there is atheism, atheism can be philosophical atheism or atheism can be psychological atheism.

So philosophical atheism means somebody has intellectual reasons why they say I believe God doesn’t exist. And there are some intellectual reasons that people can use. But most people who have become atheist, it is more for psychological reasons. Psychological reason means they have had bad experience with religion. Maybe bad experience could mean that they were ashamed in public for not doing a particular thing, or they saw some hypocrisy among religious people, and they feel that this whole religion business is nonsense.

And they have some scars because of that. And these scars come because there are people who put on a religious garb, but they misrepresent their religion. They misuse their religion. In fact, I was in Texas. Tex in America, Texas is considered to be a quite a evangelical state, Like aggressive there are Christians who are very pushy.

They’re trying to push their religion and everyone else. So I saw a car with a bumper sticker at the night. Oh, God, please save me from your preachers. So the normal idea is that God saves us through his preachers. But the preachers themselves are holier than thou.

They’re condescending. They are hell and brimstone preaching. You know, then people say, I don’t want anything to do with them. So, you know, there was this movie, OMG. Not OMG 2, the first OMG.

So that was the idea. How it was that? It like, there was a religious teacher, and there was God. So this person says, I believe in God, but I don’t believe in this religious teacher. So you could say it’s a very cunning dynamic that you’re not going against God.

But the point is that it happens that many times people say, I believe in God, but I don’t believe in all these, what you call as, God men. And that happens when those who are supposed to represent God have ulterior motives. Now we are not doing a sociological analysis of the problem of religion, but to some level, some honesty requires that we don’t just say the problem is out there. The problem is in here also. The problem can be in our organization.

The problem can be in our own hearts also. So this problem, this self critical nature that you know, self critical means that many religions are good at criticizing everyone else. This is wrong with this person. This is wrong with this person. This is wrong with this person.

But a sign of a really authentic religion is the capacity to be self critical. To this Tarangarangini, this anartha, identifying this anartha is itself a sign of self critical religion, that it is we ourselves can get caught in peripherals. And when we get caught in peripherals, then what happens? We may lose out on Krishna, and we may not even take people towards Krishna. So if I give a class, then if I’m concerned about how many times people laugh in my class, Now is it it’s good to have some humor.

It is good to keep the audience enlivened, and humor is a way to keep people enlivened. But if the speaker is concerned more about how many laughs I got from the class, and the audience also rates the quality of a class by the laughter test. You know? Okay. How much humor was there in the class?

Jokes. Isn’t it? You know? So now the point is that humor is good, and there’s nothing wrong with humor. Humor is very good.

Sometimes it’s necessary. But the point is we should not be delighting in the humor. If at the end of a class somebody says, I remember the jokes, I’m going to use those jokes in my conversations. Well, then the purpose of the class has been defeated, isn’t it? Generally, the best humor is organic.

That means while making a point which is a spiritual philosophical point, some example is given which is a humorous example. But sometimes the joke is not connected with the philosophical point or the joke is told with so much drama that people remember the point of the joke. So when that happens, then that is where something is it’s in the ambit of Krishna Gatha, but we are interested more in the humor. We are delighting more in the humor than in Krishna. So it may seem too innocent thing, you know.

What is the big deal? Sanjay says there’s some humor, but that’s where it starts. So we go towards one peripheral then another peripheral then another peripheral. So in bhakti there are material results that will also come. And this is a challenge because in one sense, you know, when we are practicing bhakti, there are 2 things which we are trying to do.

See, this is the spiritual level of reality and this is the material level of reality. So we could say at one level bhakti means we want to transcend the world. We want to transcend the world and go toward Krishna. But we also want to transform the world. Isn’t it?

We want people to become devotees. We want to share bhakti. So bhakti has both these aspects, world transcending and world transforming. Now, if you see which is going to get recognition among these 2? Yes.

This is largely visible. This is I won’t say completely invisible, but definitely less visible. Even if somebody if somebody’s really absorbing Krishna, how do you know it? Somebody might okay. When Kirtan start happening, that person tears start coming from their eyes.

Well, that could be a sign that they’re transcending. But but Gauravishadvapaji, one of the acharya’s and the teacher said that what is the price for tears? He said it is the price of an onion. You just get an onion, put it near your eyes, tears will start coming. Those are not tears because of ecstasy.

Those are tears because of the onion. So somebody can make a show of the symptoms of advanced devotionals. So the thing is that in general, in any organization, this is a challenge. Because now why is organization needed? Because organization systematizes things.

So it’s like the standard metaphor, if this is the top of a mountain and this is an ocean. Now the river has to go from the top of the mountain to the ocean. So each one of us is like a small trickle of water. So now, you know, a small little trickle of water for that to get to the ocean is very difficult. Some trickles may be so strong, I hope the word trickle is clear, like a small gentle flow of water.

That’s a trickle. So it’s a little trickle of water. For that trickle of water to get to the ocean all alone is very difficult. So when many trickles of water come together, that becomes a tributary. It becomes a rivulet.

It becomes a tributary. When many tributaries come together, that becomes a river. And as the river keeps flowing, it creates a bed for itself. And then in the bed, the river can keep flowing very easily. So a religious organization is nothing but, like, the riverbed created for the flow of water.

So that is, there are many people who are interested in God, but they are not so interested in God that they will alone be able to pursue the journey to God by themselves. Like a rivulet, a small trickle of water going toward the ocean. So they need a community. So basically a religious organization is nothing but a riverbed. It is basically people who want to go towards God, they come together and create some infrastructure.

They might build a temple. They might have some goshala. They might have this. They might have that. Whatever is needed for the purpose of taking this forward.

Say if somebody, they want to be religious, they need some priests. Now if they want a priest, okay, either you have to have the have a paid priest or you have to have some brahmachari, then you have to maintain the brahmacharis. So so basically, whatever is required, that has to be supported. So that’s how early this organization occurs. But then once there is a riverbed, there might be some people who come there because they want to build a dam over there.

And then they want to dig the water somewhere else only. So they come there not because they want to go to the ocean, because there is so much water over there. And the riverbed means the water will be much more over here. So there are people who come because there is so much facility over here. You know, you just pretend to be a little bit religious, then people will you know, which other organization you go there for 1 or 2 years, and as soon as you are seen, people start going down to you.

It doesn’t happen anywhere else, isn’t it? So you see, I can get so much respect over here. So that respect and prestige may be what will drive people. So it is a constant danger that whenever there is a release organization, there is wealth, there is fame, there is power, then politics starts coming in, then manipulation starts happening. And then now what happens is quite often, there are some people who just come transparently for these things only.

But there are people who may start thinking, actually, I am doing all this for Krishna. But is it really for Krishna or is it for my reputation, for my fame? So when we start delighting in the peripherals, then it is very difficult to figure out. Mahaprabhu says that when the bhakti lata peach is growing, at that time, along with that weed also started growing. And sometimes the weeds may look just like the original creeper only.

And, you know, there is the original creeper, and when the weeds look like the creeper, it is creepy. You know it’s you know creepy? Creepy means it’s uncomfortable, hostile. So how do we deal with this Tarangarangini? There are broadly three things.

We need to remember and remind ourselves of our aim. Either we remember or we have to refine our aim. That’s why there is regular study of philosophy. Now, of course, somebody can say that they can study the philosophy itself for the purpose of showing off how learned they are. Everything can be misused.

But if you are repeatedly hearing and speaking the classes where devotees are ready to give up everything for Krishna, that will at least remind us. So in general, if there is a tradition where there is very little emphasis on philosophy. Now what is the other thing apart from philosophy? There are rituals. So now rituals are important, but if there are only rituals being done and there’s no philosophy being emphasized, then it’s very easy to get caught in the rituals.

And I’m doing the rituals, I’m a good person. This person does the rituals nicely. Oh, this is a good person. And we are both in good illusion, isn’t it? So it’s like, oh, the Pujari does the arti so decorative.

You know? They move the hands so nicely. And I’m not looking at Krishna. I’m looking at how nice the charmer is being. And the person who is moving the charmer also is not thinking how I’m pleasing Krishna.

The person who is in the charmer is thinking, okay, how how much people are impressed by how I move the charmer. Isn’t it? So it can kirtan also the person who is leading the kirtan can be thinking, you know, just see how nicely I am singing. And everybody is dancing, and you see how much I can make people dance. And if people are dancing, they say, you they think, you know, okay.

It’s nice music and good singer. Well, good singer is true, but are you remembering Krishna, or are you just enjoying the music and the dance? Now we can say music and dance is related with Krishna, but slowly but subtly, the focus can get shifted. That’s why if you’re only going through the rituals and not studying the philosophy, then that becomes a problem. So the studying the philosophy on a regular basis is very important.

And the other is we need, even within association, we need as much as possible pure association. Pure association means that association of those who are focused on Krishna. And even among devotees, you know, you will over a period of time start seeing that different devotees have a different energy. Some devotees may be devoted completely to preaching. Okay.

We’re going to go and make this program over here, that program over there. That’s wonderful. They have that missionaries here. Some devotees may be very interested in farm communities. You know, we want to raise cow, we take care of cows.

Now all of these are good things. It’s good to have some sense of mission of how we want to transform the world. But while the devotees are doing these things, how much is the devotee satisfied in Krishna? When Prabhupada went to America, at that time, you could now the first volume of Ilhamu is called as a lifetime in preparation. Now you could look at it from a different perspective.

It is a it is a lifetime of failure. The harsh way of putting it. But Prabhupada had tried so many things, and he had practically nothing to show for it. Imagine somebody is 70, and they have only 40 rupees in savings. Now you should have some savings at least.

What did you do? So from a material perspective, were you irresponsible? Were you incompetent? What happened? Why don’t you have any savings at all?

So from a material perspective, you could say he’s a failure. From a spiritual perspective, he had books, which is a significant success, but he didn’t have any followers. He didn’t have any institutional support. But the striking thing is that there was no bitterness in Prabhupada. You know, Krishna.

I gave my whole life to Krishna, but I’m all alone struggling right now. So many times it happens with devotees when they’re trying to do some services, and they feel, you know, people are the authorities are not cooperating with me. This is not happening. That is not working. And there can be genuine grievances, and they need to be addressed.

But having grievances is one thing, becoming bitter is another thing. So there was absolutely no bitterness in Prabhupada. The people who met him just felt, Swami, this person Swami is so happy. He’s talking about Krishna and chanting Krishna’s name, writing about Krishna. Prabhupada was happy.

So Prabhupada was know, there was he wanted to transform the world, but even if the transformation of the world had not happened, Prabhupada was still satisfied. If you consider from another perspective, Prabhupada at one time said that he got this success exceeded his expectations. A spectacular success, 108 temples he built. But then the one temple that Prabhupada fought more than for any other temple, which was that Joh temple. You know, Prabhupada departed in in November 77.

The temple was inaugurated in January February 78. And Prabhupada could have said to Krishna, Krishna, this temple is so close to inauguration. Just let me live for 2, 3 months. This is this is my service to you. I want to see it completed.

But when Prabhupada asked, do you have any last desires? Prabhupada said, You know, he had worked so hard to build that temple, but it is only Prabhupada was frustrated or discontented. Okay. This is not my mission. This is Krishna’s mission.

If Krishna wants to do it through me, he will do it through me. If it’s not through me, there’ll be other instruments who will carry it on. So that was while Prabhupada worked to transform the world. Prabhupada was not doing Tarangarangini. Otherwise there are so many things which didn’t work and he could have got frustrated and could have got bitter.

It never happened to him. So we want to transform the world no doubt, but we also want to connect with Krishna. So one way, so we need pure association. So we need philosophy, we need pure association. And the third thing is again, I would say that we need some level of reflection, self reflection or introspection.

A reflection means especially reflection on what? That when something doesn’t work out, how agitated do we get about it? And is the agitation it’s natural if we have put a lot of effort in some service and if service doesn’t work out, we will feel disturbed by it. Say, you know, if I travel from one country to another country for a program, and that program is completely poorly organized and they did not do proper publicity and this went wrong and that went wrong. Now it is actually I’ll be upset.

But if I get so upset that there are maybe I was expecting for 100 people to come and there are 10 people over there. It’s actually that I get upset. But if I get so upset that in front of those 10 people I start yelling at the organizers, then, okay, what is going to happen is, okay, the organizers said better that the remaining 90 people didn’t come. Isn’t it? Because this kind of behavior would actually drive away those who are coming.

Isn’t it? Okay. If Krishna arranges for 100 people, good. If Krishna arranges for 10 people, let me try to speak these 10 people as well as I can. And then there is a place where I can talk with the organizer.

I can try to find out what happened, what went wrong. But so the point is reflection is if there is excessive negativity, When there is failure or when there is lack of success, then that is an indication that there is too much happening. That if somebody starts thinking, what is the point of doing bhakti only? Because my service is not working out, we get angry, we get bitter. You see at the end of the Bhagavad Gita, in one sense, the Gita could have ended at the birth 73.

Krishna tells Arjuna, have you understood properly? Arjuna says, yes. I will do your will. But what is there from 74 to 78? There are Sanjay’s words.

And these are the these are very, very instructive. See, Krishna spoke the message to Arjuna, that is the Gita. Now Sanjay spoke the same message to the Trastra. Now Arjuna was transformed. So in that sense, Krishna speaking the Gita is successful.

Was Sanjay transformed? Was Sanjay speaking the Gita? Was the Trasha transformed? No. So was Sanjay speaking a failure?

Well, you could say yes. In an external sense, it was a failure. But the verses 70 especially 76 and 77, they show how Sanjay is ecstatic. So he’s saying, dad, I’m so fortunate that I got to hear the Bhagavad Gita. And as I’m remembering the Gita, I’m remembering Krishna’s message, and I’m remembering Krishna’s form.

And I’m thrilled by it. So he has himself transcended. He has become immersed in Krishna. So Krishna has the capacity, you know, in Krishna consciousness, we could say there are 4 possibilities. There is success.

Success means there is transformation. And there is happiness. Now happiness means I’m using the transcending. We become absorbed in Krishna. Now best is if we get this, that we get success and happiness both.

But what should not happen is that sometimes we may get happiness, but we don’t get success. And that can happen. There are some pro popa disciples who may have thousands and thousands of disciples, and there are some pro popa disciples who have 5 or 10 disciples. Now does that mean that the disciples who have only 5 those those gurus who have 5 or 10 disciples, they are failures? No.

It depends. They may also be absorbed in Krishna, but Krishna has different plans for different people. Different people have different talents. So sometimes we may get happiness, but we may not get success. Now we could say neither success nor happiness is a bad thing.

But the most damaging would be success without happiness. That then this is this is tarangarangini. That I’m only getting the external success and because I’m not getting happiness internally, so I get no happiness in speaking about Krishna. I get only happiness when people praise me, what a wonderful class you give. And then after the class, if there’s no not many people come for the class, not many people appreciate the class, then I get angry.

Why? Because internally I’m getting no happiness. No speaking about Krishna itself should give us joy. In glorifying you there is so much nectar, he says. So we want to transcend and we also want to transform.

But what should not happen is, transforming should not become our excuse for not transcending. That is where Tarangarangini becomes dangerous. And then the last part is So in one sense, and Tarangarangini are very similar. Tarangarangini is more about what we delight in. That we start delighting in the peripherals of bhakti.

So the the Sanskrit word Tarangai is the waves. It’s like an ocean of devotion, the metaphor is there, and we are meant to go deep into that ocean and delight in the depths of the devotion. But sometimes on the waves, the on the surface of the ocean, the waves come up, and we just keep looking for a new wave and delighting in that way. That is not so good. We’re still in the ocean of devotion, but we are that’s not so good.

Now this especially refers to showing off. So this is where it’s almost as if the pleasure we are getting, we are enthusiastic, but the enthusiasm is a show to gain prestige, to gain pleasure, to show to others that I am so good. Now what is the difference between I spend a lot of time with Tarangarangini and it is very similar to Sami, but Tarangarangini or Sami, the difference is that in Tarangarangini, one may not necessarily even try to show that I am a great devotee. It is maybe that somebody comes to bhakti, somebody gets some power, somebody gets some position and then that is what they seek and that is what they delight in. But in utsahamayi, the person consciously pretends to be a great devotee.

So why do they do that? So that everybody will respect him. Like sometimes it happens that you know, some devotees, when they quote Prabhupada pastimes, they will quote Prabhupada, Prabhupada speaking very strongly. Fools, rascals, where is that? How Prabhupada smashed this person and smashed that person?

And sometimes they just speak those statements, and it’s like, in social media, there are sound bites. There are click baits. So you don’t have substance, then you try to have cheap click baits by which you attract readers. So they speak all these provocative statements, and they want to show, see how much faith I have in Prabhupada, how faithful I am to Prabhupada. You know, Prabhupada didn’t compromise.

I don’t compromise. But, you know, when Prabhupada made those statements, people didn’t get alienated. But when we make those statements without giving proper explanation of those statements, what happens is people just start thinking that people don’t some people think, oh, this person has so much faith in Prabhupada. But other people may think, you know, this person is unreasonable. This person is fanatical.

They go away. So we may show off in different ways. So here the focus is that one is, Tarangarangini is, we are delighting in something other than Krishna within the broad hamlet of bhakti. But in utsahamayi, we are actually showing off our devotion. So specifically, we are showing off the devotion so that we can get pleasure through that show of devotion.

So somebody may be fasting, but you know they don’t have to tell everyone I’m fasting, you know. It’s like some people, almost their behavior is, it’s almost like they want on their forehead, I’m a uttamadhikari. Panchang will not do. The under oath is required. Now they may not say like that, but their behavior is always like that.

So they are deliberately showing off, they do certain things and it’s it’s almost transparent they are doing that so that they can get more respect, they can go more prestige. Like, say, the spiritual master wears a chandar, they will also wear a chandar. And the spiritual like, Prabhupada would pronounce certain words in a particular way. Prabhupada would Prabhupada is from a Bengali background, so he was in English pronouncing in a particular way. So they some people just pronounce those words also exactly like that.

I don’t know. We don’t we shouldn’t judge them to say why they are doing it. That it may be out of their love for Prabhupada. But sometimes if you don’t see other aspects of their love for Prabhupada, only you see those things, then it does feel like it’s a cheap imitation. So it’s like one test of our devotion is how is our devotion when nobody is seeing it?

Isn’t it? It’s like, okay, when I am sitting with association, I sit very attentively and I chant, you know, as if, you know, there is nothing except the holy name in the 3 14 words. But then when I am alone, you know, my computer screen is right in front of me. And then, like, some people say that, you know, I am watching TV and I am chanting. I can do parallel processing.

Well, what is happening is some processing is happening, but it is Maya processing our bhakti. Isn’t it? So, we appear to be very attentive when we are in public and we are the complete opposite when we are in private. Now it is natural that none of us wants to be seen as a bad devotee or insincere devotee by others. And if the associative devotees makes us practice bhakti seriously, that is good.

But if that is the only reason or the only time when you practice bhakti seriously, then it is a problem. So you know that there is that in in Vedic logic, there is that, example that there is a case of a person called Devadatta. Devadatta fast throughout the day. That’s one statement. And everybody thinks, oh Devadatta is such a austere person, he is fasting.

But then you find out Devdutt’s weight is increasing. Now how can both these be true? The answer is Devdutt eats secretly at night. So in Vedic logic this is called as arthapati. Arthapati is when two statements, they both can’t be true and they are true.

Then you have to propose a third statement that can reconcile both of them. So God has no form. God has the most attractive form. Both kinds of statements are there in scripture. So what is arthapatti?

God has no material form, but he has a spiritual form, a transcendental form. So now this, there may be no exact one single verse in scripture which says this point. That God has no material form, but God has a spiritual form. There is this verse in Jigakha Jainra’s prayers. That ultimate reality has no form and that ultimate reality has many forms.

So there is a statement like that, but it is not specifically saying that Urupaya means no material form and Urupaya means spiritual forms. That’s arthapati. That’s a postulation that has to be done. So devotion is also see, it’s devotion. At its worst case, it can lead to hypocrisy, where a person is showing off so that they can get some pleasure.

Krishna talks about that somebody may be showing off that they have they are completely controlling their senses, but in their mind, they’re constantly contemplating sense objects and whenever they get opportunity, they’ll pounce and enjoy. So that’s hypocrisy. And the second is it can lead to violence. At a religious level, when each religion is trying to show off how great we are, how powerful we are, then that religion becomes not so much about being a path to God. Different religions we could say are different paths to climb up a mountain.

So the top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness. The bottom of the mountain is material consciousness. So now there could be different paths to go up the mountain. But some people, instead of going up the mountain, they just keep going around the mountain and they keep pulling people down from the other path that they’re going. And they keep pulling people down and that way they ensure that from my path, people are more people are going up than from your path.

But is anyone reaching the top? Doesn’t matter. No. You see here, more people are going from my path. So what happens is religion can be a spiritual path to God, but religion can also be a political path to power.

Now what is religion being used for? It depends. Somebody may chant the holy names so that they can actually come closer to God. Somebody can chant the holy names so that they can impress others and they can get votes or they can get followers. And religion can be used to indoctrinate people, to manipulate people, to brainwash people.

So why is somebody practicing religion? So utsahamay when it is there, then what happens is, so going up the path is improving myself, developing the virtues by which That is improving. But going down and pulling others down, it is all about proving that I am better than you. So when religion is a spiritual path to God, it is about improving ourselves. When it is a political path to power, it is about proving.

Proving that I am better than you. This is where hypocrisy leads to fanaticism, extremism. So the person is so enthusiastic. There is often I’ll conclude with the two points over here. In religious psychology, there is this thing called a zeal of the new convert.

That to be new convert is somebody who has come to a path new. They feel as if, you know, I have discovered the best thing in the world and everybody should get this. In one sense that is a good good thing, but the problem with that is that we become overzealous. We start becoming, too domineering, too dismissive, too disrespectful. You know, when I was introduced to Bhakti, I was I was pretty attracted to the intellectual aspects, asked a lot of questions, got a lot of answers.

And then so after that I got a job in MNC. So we would go so there is a few other students also from my same college. They also got a job. So I was staying in the temple in Pune. So the company bus would come, and then I would get into the bus.

And then it was about 1 hour drive to the place where our work was. So then there’s another student who was also there. During the bus ride, I would chant, I would hear, I would read, I would not talk with anyone. So one day this this college friend, he made a big mistake. He asked me, what are you doing?

And then the next 45 minutes, I gave him a crash course. You know, all the 6 sessions of DYAS combined together. Existence of gold, existence of God, existence of reincarnation, scientific evidence for this, the difference between material world and spiritual world, how mayavad is wrong, and how no Devata worship, only Krishna worship. He says like, I was so caught, congratulating you guys. You know, what a crash course.

I didn’t realize also he was on the course to a crash. So after that, he got out, and he went away. So after that, my stop would come first. I’ll get in the bus. And then after that, the bus has 2 doors.

So he would peep in and see where I’m sitting, and he would come from the other door and sit as far as so after many years, I met him in Seattle. So apparently, his sister had become a devotee, and his sister had undone the damage that I had done. So actually, his sister met me, and he told me, do you remember this? His name was Kripasankar. Do you remember Kripasankar?

He said, yes. So then he’s my brother. Okay. Then I asked him, how is he? So then, we talked and he said, no, he sometimes comes to the temple.

He said, I would like to meet him, then we met, and then he was a little initially afraid of me. But but it is interesting, you know. So he said afterwards, he said, you have changed. Okay. I said, what do you mean?

He said, you know, when you became before you became before you started coming to this path, actually, I felt that you were very humble. But after you became a devotee, you became very arrogant. And now you have become humble again. So it’s interesting, so how I didn’t think I had become arrogant. Who knows?

It’s very difficult to know if we have our arrogance or not. But, you know, I was just over enthusiastic and that over enthusiasm was seen as arrogance. That so what happens is people pursue things differently. So that is the state of utsahamayi, where what happens is we are so enthusiastic that we think we are doing something to attract people, but we are scaring people away. And so our enthusiasm is good.

It’s we often want to push people also. But, you know, while pushing people, we have to be watching whether I’m pushing people toward Krishna or away from Krishna. Isn’t it? Both can happen. So if you’re pushing too much and if people are not interested, then okay, what happens in the so the second point I’ll conclude with this is, so why is the zeal of the new convert there?

Because there is a certain level of insecurity that if I can’t prove to this person that my path is the right path, then I will have doubts whether my path is the right path. Isn’t it? So it’s like my faith is based at least partly on my success in convincing others about my faith. But if I have had experience, if I have found myself being transformed, then my faith is not so insecure. So in one sense, this, Bhakti san Thakur has has attested, like, aggressive aggressive faith.

Now this is a paraphrased quote. I don’t remember the exact quote, but something like that. Aggressive faith or aggressive aggressive preaching, that can be a mask for atheism. Or like what did they say? Something has said, like aggressiveness in your preaching.

That can be atheism means you are you are yourself insecure in your faith. So sometimes people who are very, very aggressive, that that is the that that could be very well a reason for that. And I if I can’t convince you, then is what I’m doing right or not? Well, if I am deeper enough in my feet, I understand that I am on my spiritual journey. This person is on their spiritual journey and at the right time they will understand.

Krishna is in their heart also. So it’s not that I have to convince everyone to myself be convinced. So that’s why over a period of time, the zeal of new, the new convert, it needs to decrease. We still want to share with others, but that sharing should not come out of our insecurity. Like I was talking with 1 devotee kid, he was born in a devotee family, and very intelligent.

He’s favorable to bhakti, not a bhakta now. So he said, throughout my childhood, I was never sure whether my parents loved me as a person. I always felt that I was like a trophy of their devotion for their community. A prophecy of their devotion. That means what?

Oh, you know, see, I am such a nice parent because my child is such a nice devotee. My child signs so many rounds, my child will memorize so many shlokas. Now that is a natural desire if the parents have got something good, they want to share it with their children. But if the parents don’t show love to the child, then what the child feels is, do you really care for me at all? Or am I just like a trophy for you to show?

Or you know, just say so that, am I a tool for you to get to be praised in your community? So now that is very damaging for children. If a child feels like that, that my parents don’t love me actually at all. So You know, our love for our children should not be dependent on whether they become devotees or not. We should give them the facility to practice bhakti, but we have a relationship with them and Krishna has arranged for our relationship to be there.

So we need to play our role in that relationship. Even when Prabhupad, met his Guru Maharaj in 1922, he writes over there that, you know, if I had not been married, I would have immediately joined my my spiritual master’s mission. But he said, now I was married, I had a wife, I had a child, he said, it would have been unfair to them for me to abandon them. So Prabhupada for almost 3, 3 and a half decades did discuss the responsibilities. So the idea is that sometimes we don’t really care for people at all.

People so this can become for parents and children. This can also become for preachers and those who we are preaching to. Those who are preaching to, they are trophies for us to show to our seniors. And then that is not a very good attitude. So that over a period of time we need to understand that that yes, I want to share Krishna bhakti.

I want to have an impact in the world, but I shouldn’t be so insecure that if I can’t show the impact in the world, then that means my devotion is not good. Or that instead of caring for people, I’m only caring for showing others my devotion through people. It shouldn’t be like that. That is it can be not only harmful for our devotion, but can be harmful for others devotion also. So to some extent it happens gradually.

That initially, we will be attracted toward the externals, and that’s not a bad thing. But over a period of time, we need to move from the externals toward the internals. In the Gopi Gita, there’s one nice verse. The Gopis say They say that your smile destroys the pride of the devotees. So the the Gopi Gita, each verse is actually a call to Krishna.

Please come back. And the implication over there is, Krishna, if you are thinking that we became proud and because of our pride you have abandoned us, then Krishna, if you come and smile before us and seeing your smile is so attractive, it is so enriching that at that time the devotee feels, what is the pleasure of this pride? Pride gives some pleasure when people praise us. But as compared to that, the beauty of beholding Krishna with our eyes, the beauty of holding Krishna in our heart, that is so much more than the pleasure of pride. It is just dums.

No. It’s destroyed. So for all of us, we might be doing tarangrangini, we might be utsahamay, but then over a period of time we need to start seeing that, yes, actually the pleasure in remembering Krishna is much more than the pleasure of showing others our service to Krishna or even of just seeing the results of our service in this world. So both they’re valuable, but what is much more valuable is our connection with Krishna. So in one sense, we may start with if you’re going towards Krishna.

So this is Krishna at the end. So sometimes there are things along the way which may also attract us. But when these fringe benefits are there, we can see. If we get them well and good, we accept them and we keep moving towards Krishna. But in pursuing them, we want to make sure that we don’t go away from Krishna.

So over a period of time, we understand that the fruit that Krishna is greater than Krishna’s blessings. Even if those blessings are in terms of service in this world, or service results in this world. So services okay. I distributed so many books. Service results is I was, I was glorified as the number one book distributor.

So service and service result, they are important, but it is Krishna who is more important. So this is as we get that realization, we’ll go beyond the staranagarangini and the utsahamayi. So I’ll summarize what we discussed. The last two challenges in bhakti, in Anarthi Nilukti we discussed. The first was Tarangarangini.

So here I discuss 3 main points. I talked about how when somebody is practicing bhakti that there are, there there is the peripherals in which we may seek pleasure. So pleasure in peripherals. Now that can happen because that is itself the starting motive, or that can happen because that becomes distracting to us with time. Then I talk about organized religion and how it can it is often something which alienates people.

But what happens is people get attracted to the infrastructure, like the riverbed. Organized religion, we could say like the river. The infrastructure used for that is like the riverbed. So we get caught in the riverbed, and we try to get like, it’s like building a dam to take away things. So we want to to prevent this.

We need to remind ourselves, remember our aim, why we came here. Then we also have pure association. Those who are focused on Krishna. And then we need to monitor our emotions, Especially if we get too discouraged by something, too frustrated by something then that may be an indication that we are too caught by external. Discuss about right at the start of his outreach when he came to America he was satisfied.

At the end when Juhu temple couldn’t be completed he was never bitter. So basically what happened is, in our bhakti there is transcending and there is transforming. So while we want both, we need to make sure that if there is success and there is happiness. So best is we get both, but if we get happiness without success we need to gracefully accept that. If there is no success, no happiness, there’s certainly a challenge, but if there’s no success but happen, there’s no happiness but success, this is dangerous Because then we may start succeeding seeking the success alone and start thinking that is the that is the proof of my devotion.

And then it is these 2 are not that different but here it’s primarily we are showing off. So showing off that we are a great devotee and we get pleasure through that. So in this case, the idea is religion becomes not a path to God, but a path to power and prestige in this world. And that’s when religions, either we can at this stage, it’s either hypocrisy or extremism. Where hypocrisy means I try to show off what I am not.

Extremism means I end up trying to destroy others to prove that I am better than them. It’s like proving becomes much more important than improving myself. So we discussed also the zeal of the new convert and how we need to go beyond that. Initially, we may look for the externals in Krishna Bhakti, but over a period of time, we realize that Krishna is greater than Krishna’s blessings. Be they material or even they be the spiritual.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So I think we don’t have time for question answers now. How many of you have questions as such? 1, 2, 3.

Okay. 4, 5. Let’s plan either tomorrow day after tomorrow morning, we’ll have questions. Please note down your questions. Or we’ll see tomorrow we have 2 sessions on this talk only?

But then, Prabhupad will do day after morning? Okay. Sure. So today evening, we’ll continue this then. We’ll have questions at that time.

Thank you very much.

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Actually, how to fight the war. So in many ways, it was the British education of India that created within Indians the idea of independence. Because prior to that there are different kings ruling at different times and the idea that there should be our own government. So that idea largely came from, now of course Shivaji Maharaj and others had tried to unite India before that. Many other kings who had tried intermittently.

But that was never like a mass movement. It was some kings who took up the rulership, who took up the responsibility, they fought, and they got some support. But in general, political struggles political struggles were largely leadership struggles. That largely it was this king being defeated and that king winning, but at one particular time it became a mass struggle. So now there were 2 steps in that.

1st is the conviction that British rule is bad for us and we have to end it. But conviction alone does not necessarily mean we have the means, isn’t it? Now nonviolence was both a moral principle as well as a political strategy, Because Indians just didn’t have weapons and getting weapons was not very easy. Because in the history of the American independence, there was a critical war battle near Luxembourg. Luxembourg was a place where Britain had stored all their gunpowder.

The British Army was trying to reach there and the American Revolutionaries were trying to reach there. Somehow the American Revolutionaries managed to reach in time. There was a storm that came across suddenly when the British were trying to cross the river. And because they got those weapons, that’s why they were able to fight and win. Otherwise, they’re just a motley group of people with some principles, but no means.

And that’s why in the history of America, they have that right to have guns. Because every American citizen should have the right to guns so that they can fight against the government, if the government becomes tyrannical. So because their experience of the British government was tyrannical. It was exploited. It was autocratic.

So the rest of the world, that idea that ordinary citizens should have weapons to fight against the government. So that idea is not there in people’s minds. It is not there in the European minds also, but America has enough course because of that. That is one factor. A lot of gun violence is there.

But my point is that one thing was, okay, you become convinced if you want, you want to fight. But second is you need the means and the 2 are not the same thing. Just because we have the conviction, doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll have the means. If we don’t have the means, then it’s very difficult to win. So for us, the mind is also a part of us.

We say our mind works against us and that is all that is true, but the mind is a part of us. So when we are trying to say follow certain principles, fight against temptations, even after intelligence is convinced, that does not automatically mean that we will win the war. We have to develop the means. And that means what does developing the means means? So if I don’t have the means, then you could put in a war, to fight a war, there is the will and there is the skill.

So skill would mean that you want to fight, but the soldiers don’t know how to operate a gun. When America suddenly left Afghanistan and went away a couple of years ago, you might have seen those pictures of people trying to hang on to planes as the plane flies away. Now Americans left 1,000,000,000 of dollars of worth of weapons over there. Now the Afghans, Taliban, they have those weapons, they don’t know how to use the weapons only. So then China and Russia, both of them said we will come and we’ll send our trainers to teach you the weapons.

They were competing among each other. They said we will sell the weapons to us. Now the it is like you have weapons but you don’t know how to use them. That’s not the weapons are not really very helpful at that time for them. So for fur, to have the fighting spirit is important, but after that we need to have the fighting strength.

And that means it’s a gradual process. It’s only in movies, you know, the villain beats up the hero and then the hero goes to a gym, does some push ups and suddenly becomes huge body builder, start beating up the villain. It doesn’t work like that in real life. You know, building up on self healing physically takes a long time. So we need, in this inner war, we need patience.

It may not happen immediately. So you remember I talked about the conditionings, like in the browser example, that if somebody’s browser has bollywood.com as autocomplete, Then if they want to visit bhagwadgita.com, it is going to take time for bhagwadgita.com to become the autocomplete. Isn’t it? And till that time, the Bollywood as well as type B Bollywood makeup as autocomplete. And they need to recognize that this will happen.

So basically when we are dealing with our desires So we can talk about desire management. So this is itself an elaborate subject, and I’ll continue talking about this tomorrow also. But when we are talking about desire management there are different kinds of desires. You remember the 2 categories I had mentioned among the samskaras? Sorry.

Yes. Vrtti and vasana. So now as I said these terms can mean different things. Sanskrit is a complex language but vrtti means instincts. Like somebody has a musical instinct.

Kshatriyas, they have a protector instinct or they have a leader’s instinct. Brahmana has an intellectual instinct. So these are instincts that are there and then there are impulses. So what do we do with the vruttis? Yes.

You want to discover them first of all, and then we want to develop them. What about the vastness? Yeah. Yeah. So we want to eventually reduce and then remove.

But before that, we need to regulate. So it’s a gradual process. Now so in this sense there are 2 distinct approaches to desire management. And then even among the vasanas I talked about, there could be superficial and deep rooted. So the superficial desires, what do we do?

Just boundaries can be enough. Out of sight is out of mind. The desire is very superficial. You know, okay, if I have cable TV then I think now nowadays cable TV everybody has. But you know if I have that access to that particular program I’ll watch it.

But if not there no big deal. Not that I want to go out of my way to find and watch it. So their superficial desires, boundaries themselves are quite enough for us to be able to overcome those desires. But there are other desires which may be deep rooted and they may need another approach for dealing with it. So sometimes it may seem that this desire is so strong that I just can’t overcome it.

That when the temptation comes, I just feel as if I am overpowered. I I can’t fight against it at all. So when this happens, now, when the desire seems to be too strong, is it just a matter of feeling? Oh, it’s just too strong and I can’t give it up. If you consider alcoholism, there are broadly 2 different theories about alcoholism.

Or we could talk about what is the opposite of right? Wrong. No. Left. Yeah.

I’m talking about the political right and the political left. So on the, in general with respect to alcoholism, like, on the right the idea is it is an individual moral defect. That you are responsible. You should pull your act together. You, why are you so irresponsible?

Why are you so unregulated? Come on. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. So that is the idea from the right, political right. You know, you are responsible.

Whereas on the left, often the idea is it is a social problem. It’s an individual problem. It’s a social problem. That means if somebody is an alcoholic, you know, maybe they were abused by their parent, by their father in their childhood. Their father had an alcoholic issue, alcoholism issue, or somebody else had an alcoholism issue.

They had a very bad life, and this is their coping mechanism. And so here, often it is seen not as a moral defect, but as a medical disorder. It is like a disease. Nowadays, you see the attitude towards suicide is also changing. If you see in the media, the way they cover it, it is not that he committed suicide.

They say he died by suicide. Died by suicide is like he died by cancer. He died by heart attack. So like suicide almost is treated as if something that happens to the person rather than something that is done by the person. Now the idea may or may not be correct.

Now at one level, we can say even if it’s a medical disorder, it requires a certain level of willpower. If somebody has a disease, still they require medicine and to take the medicine requires willpower. But there’s a categorical difference in the 2. If say, if it’s just a moral defect. Say if somebody, you know, has a tendency to scratch their nose and they just keep doing that.

Now it looks initially it looks weird, but if a person keeps doing that again and again, just stop it. So you may say somebody has the urge to scratch. It’s just a behavioral defect. You just use your willpower. Stop doing it.

But if somebody is coughing, and they tell you, no. Why are you coughing so much? Just control yourself. Or somebody has loose motions. Control yourself.

You know? So now okay. Even if somebody has loose motion, you can say control yourself. But that is okay. Don’t eat heavy food now.

Don’t eat food that is going to further aggravate the disease. But there is if something is a disease, then there is some aspect of it which is beyond one’s control. So even with cough, say for example, now if somebody’s coughing, that may be beyond their control. But after the coughing stops, they start eating ice cream. Now that is in their controls, isn’t it?

So still there is something in control. No doubt, but there is an aspect which is beyond the control. So in the past, any behavioral problem say somebody’s alcoholic, somebody’s short-tempered, somebody is anyway like a lusty sexual predator or very lusty. It is generally seen as a problem in the right individual problem. But now it is being more and more seen as a as a disease.

It’s not just a willpower defect. You know, moral defect means what? You are not just strong enough. You be strong enough. So now which do you think is right over here?

Sorry. Mixture of both. That’s always the safest answer, isn’t it? Like, you can hedge the bets. So now and I was in North America.

I had gone to a university in Calgary. You know, Calgary is on the, West Coast of Canada. The East Coast of Canada is cold and the West Coast is like super cold. So it’s it’s crazy cold. So one morning, I woke up around 3, 3:15.

I thought I’ll go for a japa walk. I looked at the temperature. It was 4 degrees. I thought okay. I’ll wear some I thought I’ll wear some warm clothes and I’ll go out.

No. Actually, it was something like 11 degrees. I thought, okay. I wore some warm clothes and went out. But I went out after some time.

I just couldn’t even move the beads in my fingers. And then as I was somehow I looked at the phone and then I noticed I woke up. I had forgotten to see the minus sign over there. It was not 11, it was minus 11 degrees. So sometimes it’s freezing cold.

So anyway, on Calgary, there’s a university on top of a hill. So when we were on top of a hill as we were going down, we were going up the hill, a winding road, we saw how snowballs are formed. So at the top it is just a snow pebble. It’s a tiny pebble. At this point, if some person comes over, they just kick it, it’ll crack apart by there too.

But as it keeps moving downwards, it starts becoming bigger and bigger. And by the time it comes down, it has become a snow boulder. It’s not just a snowball, it’s like a huge rock. And that same person who could have crushed it when it is on top will be crushed by it when it comes to the bottom. So for us our Anartas are like that.

Initially at this stage it is a moral defect. Like first time a person goes to college and say, you know some friend say, let’s go, let’s take some drugs, let’s drink. At that time the person can say no And if they don’t say no, it is a moral defect. You come here not for fooling around like that. You come here to study.

They can say no at that particular time, but when they keep saying yes, they keep indulging. The conditioning starts becoming stronger and stronger and stronger. And I remember talking about in our landscape. Sometimes it’s a gentle slope, sometimes it’s a steep slope. So sometimes the conditioning becomes so strong that it’s almost impossible.

So no matter how strong the willpower of a person might be, at this point it is a medical disorder. It is beyond that person’s capacity that when the urge comes, they are going to be overcome. Now this does not mean that that person is completely helpless. When the snow boulder is rolling down, we may not be able to stop the snow boulder, but that doesn’t mean we have to stop there and be crushed by it. We can get out of the way, but getting out of the way is different from stopping it itself.

The 2 very different approaches. So that’s why sometimes some people who are recovering from alcoholism, they are taken to some d addiction centers. Where all access to that particular substance is completely cut off. They’re given some other activities to do by which they don’t feel the craving so much. But the fact is at that time they can’t trust themselves.

They can’t trust their own good intentions. I will not drink, but when the urge comes up they will succumb. So the point here is that sometimes our will power alone may not be enough. So when I say medical disorder, it is not what the will power alone. May not or not may not is not enough.

Like somebody has got cough. Will power alone is not enough to cure the cough, isn’t it? Will power is important, but it alone is not enough. So will power not be to suppress the cough. Will power is to make sure you take the medicines, make sure you take the food stuff, which will actually be conducive to healing and not aggravating the cough.

So this means that for all of us, when we are trying to deal with our urges, so sometimes there may be the idea that it’s all just in the mind. Yeah, it may be all in the mind, but the mind is also real. And the impressions within the mind are also real. And some impressions may be far more deep rooted or far stronger than others. Krishna does say that there is a whole philosophical discussion if you consider lust.

Now lust, when Krishna uses the word Karma, he’s answering Arjuna’s question. What makes us do wrong things? So Arjuna is not actually asking only about sexual desire over there. Although it can refer to sexual desire definitely, but he’s talking about any self destructive desire. What is it that urges us to act against our own best interests?

Even when we know that as Shukhdev was saying, And I know it’s not good for me. As Arjuna says, I don’t want to do it. But still, Krishna says, is it is it is lust just a desire? Oh, sometimes I is it okay, I get the desire to drink. I get the desire to take drugs.

I get this desire, that desire. Is it just a desire? Or is it a thing? A thing in the sense that, is it an impression in the mind? Or is it an impression?

What do you think? Yeah. Always the same answer. So you remember earlier we talked about how perceptions grow? That something comes in from outside and then a distortion means that thing can just completely fill our consciousness.

So when we talk about say lust, now there could be an object outside. That object is a trigger. That object is not the source of lust. It is a trigger for lust. So it’s like the same object.

Say sometimes you say that let’s ban alcohol. Now whenever they try to ban alcohol all that happened was people started taking alcohol illegally. So banning is not really a solution. You say, is the bottle of alcohol the source of is it the cause of alcoholism? Well, we may say yes, no, yes.

Isn’t it? If you see alcohol, you get the desire for alcohol. But then just like people are alcoholics, there are people who are gamblers. So if suppose somebody likes to gamble with cards. So is cards the cause are cards the cause of gambling?

Do you want to ban all cards? We could say, oh, say, hey. Shakuni got the additional to gamble with dice. So let’s ban all dice. You know?

See? Now we could say, biologically speaking, there is a slight difference. Dice is simply an object that exists out there. Whereas drugs are substances that we take inside and they affect our brain. When we take food, like any substance that we take into our system, its effect is much more.

So we can’t really entirely equate dice and drugs. They’re not the same, but still the principle is there. Just as dice is not the cause of gambling, similarly drugs themselves are not the cause of drug addiction. They are triggers. So what do I mean by trigger?

That something that is outside, when you use the word trigger, just pressing the trigger of a gun doesn’t do anything. Inside the gun there has to be a bullet. Otherwise you keep pressing the trigger and nothing happens. Isn’t it? So the sense objects are triggers.

They are not the sources. When we don’t understand this, then often it’s very easy to blame the sense objects. But it’s not that simple. So there is a trigger, but inside us there are the impressions. We discussed the samskaras, the vasanas.

So Krishna says in the senses, in the mind, and in the intelligence. All 3 of them, these are there. So it is the external trigger plus the internal impression. Both come together, and that’s how on this side the urge comes up. The vague comes up.

So in that sense, we could say lust is a desire that flares up within us. But lust is also an impression inside us. So the the process is that there is there is a stimulus from outside. Stimulus is the trigger. The stimulus, it combines with some impression from inside.

And together, there is a proposition. What we call as an urge that arises. So that means there are 2 different things over here. That something which comes from outside inside and something which comes from inside outside. So to some extent, feeling tempt feeling tempted.

To feel tempted, that may be unavoidable Because there are tempting objects in the outer world. And if we have impressions, when the 2 come together, we will feel tempted. It is like there is some inflammable substance and there’s a matchstick. There’s a flame. And the flame and the infribable substance come together, then the fire is going to rise.

But there is feeling tempted and there is falling for temptation. Now falling for temptation, that is sometimes avoidable or many times avoidable. So now internally, so what happens? There is an impression inside. There is a stimulus from outside.

And when the 2 come together that is when the desire gets inflamed. Now it is possible, so say, for deep rooted desires, what happens sometimes, in the example is given that sometimes in the process of senses, okay, there are senses and there are sense objects. So it says, how does the indulgence occur? There are 2 possibilities. 1 is the sense objects come toward the senses.

The other is the senses go toward the sense objects. So the process can start from outside to in. We see something, and then we get tempted. Tempted in the sense that we start going toward that. But it’s also possible that it starts from inside.

This is especially with respect to deep rooted desires. Like somebody, say, has a craving to eat a particular kind of food. Now that food is not available in the entire city. They may travel to a completely different city just to eat that kind of food. Isn’t it?

So the idea is sometimes the senses go toward the sense objects. Now both ways it is possible. So so so going back to the point the point which we are discussing over here is that sometimes when we say this is there, I feel I just can’t control myself. I can’t follow this standard. This is too high for me.

So is it something which is really too high or is it something we are feeling that it is too high? Is it just a moral deficiency? Is it a medical disorder? Like a medical disorder. Well it depends.

If the impression is at this stage for us, for some people, okay no I’m not going to do it and they stop it and they are able to stop it. For some people they say no and no, no, no, maybe, yes. So the no does not say no. Sometimes, you know, it’s like you should not do it. So a person speaks it with so much doubt that he asks, are you trying to convince me or are you trying to convince yourself?

So what happens for all of us is that there are times if we consider the graph of say, craving with respect to time. Now say somebody has anger issues, somebody has lust issues, somebody has greed issues, whatever. Now no no matter how strong they somebody may may have a compulsive or addictive urge, but even for that person it is not that the compulsive or addictive urge is 24 hours a day. Alcoholism. Somebody cannot nobody can have the urge to drink at the same level of intensity 24 hours a day.

Somebody will say I have no control over my anger. Okay. Maybe true, but nobody can be burning with anger 24 hours a day. Anger is too expensive an emotion. It takes too much of a toll.

So in general, anything that is self destructive, how it is is, it is at a particular level and it has a surge. It goes up, it comes down. And again it goes up, and again it comes down. So if you consider the craving to be like an urge, so often the urge has a surge. So the surge of the urge.

And when this surge is there, at that time it may well be impossible. So then that what can we do? Does that mean that we are we are helpless? We are hopeless? We can do nothing about it?

Well, it’s not so simple. There are 3 steps over here. So when the surge comes up, at that time, it is possible that, at least at that time it may be so strong that we just can’t say no to it. So then one thing that we can do is that it’s like a 3 step approach to deal with this. 1st is create boundaries, which we already discussed.

So why do we create boundaries? Because say, if the urge or the surge of the urge say it is it comes and it lasts for maybe half an hour, or it lasts for 1 hour, it lasts for 3 hours. Nothing lasts for days weeks at the same intensity. We feel like this is going to be the same for the rest of my life. No.

It’s not the rest of the life. So if, say, somebody suddenly at night has an urge, why I want to eat some gulab jamuns? Now if it is readily available, they will eat it. If it is not, okay, now at night I have to find out which shop is open now. I have to go and go to that shop and buy that, And then, okay, by that, you come out, you get on the vehicle, it’s cold, you start going.

And then slowly when the urge comes up, it’s like intelligence is, like, sidelined completely. But after some time the intelligence says, no, I could be sleeping peacefully now. Is it really necessary for me to go and eat this now? So what happens is sometimes boundaries create a distance in terms of space or time. And then if the boundary is long enough to last for the duration of the urge, then we don’t have to when there are temptations, no, we don’t have to overpower.

Maybe overpower is not possible, but we just have to outlast them. The difference between overpowering? Overpowering is that you that you are so strong, but I’m stronger than you. But outlast means what? That they are strong for a particular amount of time.

And if you can just outlast that, that urge will go away. So an example to illustrate this is, you know, you’ve heard of this arm wrestling? Now arm wrestling is quite a common game especially among males. But now when they play it there are different kinds of arm wrestling. One is that you just keep playing till one of them wins.

One person forces the other person to arm. But sometimes like a chess match, sometimes a chess match can go on for 35 days. People can just keep playing it. But there are timed chess matches. You know, in 30 minutes you have to finish.

If you don’t finish then it’s a draw or whatever. You have certain amount of time. So quite often our battle against temptation is like a timed arm wrestling match. So it’s like, say, for 3 minutes. Within 3 minutes, either you have to put the other person’s hand down or that person has to put our hand down.

Now that person may be too strong, and we can’t hold on to that person against that person for hours. But we don’t need to hold on for hours. It’s like, the arm is completely down. Just hold on. Okay.

Round over. So now when the round is over, there will be another round. But the next round is not going to start from here. The next round will start from here again. So that’s why with while fighting with temptation, we don’t have to overpower temptation.

We have to outlast temptation. So this is the meaning of tolerate. So Krishna talks about it in terms of heat and cold, pleasure and pain. But Krishna also talks about it in 5/23 about So he says if you can just tolerate it. This is he says to some extent that the desires may just come because we have a body.

It says that especially if we consider sexual desire, there’s a biological component to it. That’s how reproduction happens. In animals, there is a mating season. Even cows are considered very mild animals, but when they are in the heat, it’s very difficult to control them. Bulls, when they are in heat, they can come mad.

So now humans are not that much driven by, say, by the environmental cycles in terms of their biological urges. Much of our urges are triggered by external environments, where there is so much stimulation to agitate us. But the point is that there is a biological element to it. So it is Krishna says, yes, this urge will come, but it is not going to last forever. So tolerate means it is not overpower, it is just outlast it.

It’ll come and stay for some time. During that time it is going to be difficult, but just tolerate it. So this is one way of dealing with it. Now the other is that sometimes the urge comes and we may just not be able to tolerate it. So now again, you know, what I’m talking about here is that in one sense, willpower is required, but there is also an understanding.

What am I using my willpower for? My willpower is not that I should not feel any such desire at all. Well, yes and no. That is a if that the impression is there, the stimulation is there, certain desires may come up. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that we have to end up feeling guilty about it.

Okay. Yes. These desires come up. We’ll stay for some time. It’ll go away.

So we use the willpower to outlast the temptation. Now sometimes that may just not be possible. So the urge may come and the urge must be so strong that we just feel I have to indulge. I just can’t do anything about it. Now if that happens, even if we can’t resist, we can still persist.

What do I mean? Sometimes we define ourselves only by what happens in this phase. And we resolve, okay, I will not succumb. I’ll never do this again. And we end up doing the same thing.

I’m such a worthless person. I’m such a useless person. I’m such a fallen soul. Well, even if we can’t resist this phase, we want to resist over here and we can’t. But what happens between the urges?

This is a different phase. And we can persist. Persist in what? Persist in doing something meaningful. Persist in doing something constructive.

That I’ll come to later when we talk about that stage we’ll try to come to today. But we can persist in doing something meaningful. So sometimes, okay, I succumb to a particular desire. I feel so bad that I just give up everything. Just give up trying only.

No. Okay. During that phase what happened? That’s not the best thing. Maybe that’s terrible also, but no, that doesn’t define me.

There is so much more to my life. I will persist in between, and by persisting what happens is we do 2 things. So the so first is just try to outlast the urge. If we can’t outlast the urge, we are overpowered, then persist between the urges. That means pick up.

Pick yourself up and then prepare. It’s like, say, somebody there is temptation. When we talk about the war against temptation, So temptation, we can say like an attacker. Like a cross border attackers there. Now the attackers can be of 2 different kinds.

Now attackers can be raiders and they can be occupiers. Now raiders means what? They come in, they plunder, and then they live. Occupiers are those who come and they rule. So there are 2 very different kind of things.

So, for example, among the Islamic invaders who came to India, I say the Mughal dynasty, the Delhi Sultanate, they became occupiers. But there was Muhammad Ghuri, Muhammad Ghazni. They came, they raided and they left. So what happens is, so is temptation like a raider or an occupier? Okay.

Raider. How many say raider? Okay. How many say occupier? Okay.

Well, you can say that the safe answer is you can say, is it more than? Well, not exactly. It is. Any metaphor. Remember I talked about metaphor?

See no metaphor, no material metaphor can completely describe a subtle philosophical spiritual concept. But we could say that there are impressions inside us. So in that sense, it’s occupier. Those impressions are always there. But in terms of the urges becoming very strong, then they almost become irresistible.

In that sense, it’s like a raider. That when the raiders come, that time they’re just going to over power and plunder. But then they leave, and then you can rebuild the city after that. So maybe after 50 years, after 100 years, another raider is going to come. So in India, there are many raiders who came, but the categorical difference between, say, the British rule and the Islamic rule I’m just using the word Islamic generally because there were many Islamic dynasties and they all not one of them were equally fanatical or equally hostile.

And not all of them were they also came from different parts. Some came from Turkey, some came from here, some came from there, many places. But anyway, the point I’m making is that when the Muslim rulers came to India, they destroyed many temples. That is true. At the same time, they did not destroy the basic economic infrastructure of India.

See while the cities were the visible centers of prosperity, it was the villages that were the sources of prosperity. The villages, there were farms and there were there was a feudal system. And yes, there were jagirdas and landlords and all those things. It was not like it was not like a democratic cabality, but everybody was reasonably taken care of. And so although the cities were plundered, but the sources of the prosperity were the villages.

And from the villages still prospering India is relatively speaking a fairly fertile land, so the agriculture would be good and the greens would come up, and again the cities would become prosperous. So it is not that because the city was plundered and the capitals were devastated people go, oh, you know, what is the use of rebuilding? No. They kept rebuilding. They tried to develop better different structures and all those things they tried to do.

The point is we could say in terms of impressions, they are occupiers. But in terms of the urges that come, they are like raiders. So the urges, they’re not always that strong. So when the urges are not that strong, what do we do? We can just keep feeling sorry for ourselves.

You know, I’m worthless. I’m useless. I’m not good for nothing. Nothing is going to ever happen for me. I’m doomed.

No. There’s no need for okay. What can I do now? You know, I can maybe so I can we can do something specifically to purify ourselves, to do some atonement. But along with that, we can try to do something constructive, something meaningful within ourselves.

So this is where when there is a relapse you know the word relapse? Lapse is a mistake. Lapse in judgment, we say. But relapse means somebody falls back to some behavior which they had said they will not do. So relapse now we may use the word fall down, but fall down is a little too strong a word.

It can just be a slip. It can be a fall. Basically, relapse means to go back to one’s past behavior. The kind of behavior which one was having, which one wanted to give up. One goes back to that behavior.

So when there’s a relapse, there are 2 extreme reactions to it. 1 is that we take it too casually. Like a attitude. Yeah. It it happens to everyone.

No big deal. Now the other is we take it too gravely. Too gravely means what? That we think, you know, if this has happened, what is the use of my practicing bhakti? Sometimes we make a resolution that I’m not going to do this.

In 30 days we succeed. We don’t do a particular thing, you know. And 31st day, we succumb again. Now we can say, what is the use? What is the use?

Again, I succumb. It’s all useless. I’m fallen. Not necessarily. The 30 days that we abstain, that has also created an impression in our mind.

That abstinence, that non doing that activity, that is also an achievement. So if we take it too casually, like, remember I talked about accountability? If the person whom we are accountable to, they can be the too soft or too hard. So like that relapse, if we take it too casually, then it will be perpetuated. It will just go on constantly.

Not only perpetuated, it will also get aggravated. We’ll do it and we’ll do it more. So it’s like a radar comes and destroy. Then what can you do? The radar then you will come and destroy.

No. Make some planning. Have some strategy. Maybe the strategy will not work, but you need to have some defensive strategy. Don’t just be passive completely, isn’t it?

But on the other hand, if you took it too gravely, then what happens is we can become just guilt ridden. We can become we can start feeling hopeless. So, now what is the problem with being guilt ridden? I think this side, if you’re too casual, that is not very helpful. That is clear enough.

We don’t want to be too casual. But at the same time, if we are taking something too gravely, Now what happens? Have any of you heard of this sentence? So now what happens? I am a fallen soul.

Now we may say this. We may say it’s a fact. It’s out of humility, whatever. But sometimes when we say it, what happens is the fallen becomes so big that we forget the soul. It’s I’m not a I’m not a I’m a fallen soul, I’m fallen.

Well, fallen is a temporary conditioned state. Soul is the eternal spiritual identity. So we know one of the characters of bhakti is. You need to give up all designations. Even fallen is a designation.

We shouldn’t over identify with that designation. Now, if you over identify with that, what is happening is that we are forgetting the soul is not fallen. The soul has conditioning around it. The conditioning is very strong because of which the soul acts in a fallen way right now. And we want to acknowledge the reality.

But just as we don’t want to identify with I’m a male, I’m a youth, I’m a middle aged person, I’m upper middle class, I’m this. Those are designations. I have IQ of 160. Okay. If you have it, it’s good to use it.

We don’t want to deny that. If you have that IQ, that’s a gift. Use it. Yeah. But don’t over identify with it.

So similarly, just as you don’t want to over identify with our positives, that will lead to ego. Similarly, we don’t want to over identify with our negatives also. So what happens is if we don’t if if, say, during the urge, going there to surge, we just fall. It like, we fall at that time, and then we just stay fallen. Like, sometimes we want to wake up at 4 o’clock, and, you know, we put the snooze button.

In a clock, generally, the snooze is the almost overused button, isn’t it? So we just go. Okay. Then we wake up at 4:30. Now part of us feels angry.

You know, you could have woken up earlier. You wasted half an hour. But then very well we could wake up at 4:30. But other part of us says, you know, anyway you overslept. You sleep more.

And then instead of waking up at 4:30, we may wake up at 7:30. Isn’t it? Now, maybe at that time we were so tired that 4 o’clock was difficult, we could have woke up at 4:30. So, like, falling may not be in our control. I’m not saying it is not, but sometimes it might just be that we are tired.

But just because we couldn’t wake at 4:30 doesn’t mean we have to sleep on till 7:30, isn’t it? Sometimes we fall, but after we have fallen, we don’t have to stay fallen, isn’t it? So when we when we over identify with a relapse, we over identify with a relapse, then what happens is we don’t just fall, we stay fallen. I’ll never be able to do this. So why even try?

We just mentally give up the whole fight. Yeah. Okay. That particular phase of the fight, I may not win. But we are not defined only by that one thing.

We are not defined only by what happens in that phase. The history of India is not defined by the raids that devastated India. The raids are dark chapters in India’s history. If that not happened, that would be wonderful. But just because they have happened, the whole of Indian history is not defined by that, isn’t it?

So similarly, we all may have dark chapters in our life story where we do things that we regret, but those don’t define us. So it’s like say if I am here and here there is anartha. Anartha means something which is, the word refers to something inside us, but inauspicious things. So basically, this is like the wrong behavior on our side. The meaningless, worthless, wrong, sinful behavior, whatever you want to visit.

Now on this side, there is means our capacity to have some healthy, constructive actions. We have that. So okay, you know, I decided I’m not going to get angry. I’m not going to come yell at anyone. I’m not going to come to Vaishnavrad.

But we yell at someone. That’s not a good thing. But just because we yell at someone that doesn’t mean that afterwards we cannot even try to behave reasonably with other people. No, yes. So when there is guilt now guilt should come here.

It should come between us and the unearth. That I will not do this again. So, you know, when there is guilt, it acts at the level of emotions. Guilt is a part of conscience. So conscience is like a bigger thing.

Within that, guilt is a smaller thing. Conscience, in many ways, it acts at the level of emotions. That means when we do something, if we are about to yell at someone, then something inside us says don’t do that. Or after we yell at someone, even before anybody chastises, we thought, you know, I shouldn’t have spoken like that. That’s a wrong thing to do.

So it’s like a at a level of emotions, we feel this is wrong. And similarly, at a level of emotions we feel it is right. Say, if somebody is blind and they’re they’re struggling with a stick and they’re trying to cross the road. And we see that and we may part of it and say, let me go and help this person. Now it’s not that somebody is going to click Instagram photo and put it on your photo and you get a 100 likes for that.

Nobody did notice it. Nobody may appreciate it. But there’s a part of us that think this is the right thing to do. Let me help this person. So we have a conscience all of us is called the viveka buddhi.

So conscience, it’s almost like a it’s a sense of right and wrong that does not require intellectual reasoning. There is a part of so conscience is not exactly the same as intelligence. Intelligence is where we do reasoning. We need to do reasoning and say, okay, this is something which I will do. This is something which I’ll not do.

But conscience is, it works at the level of emotions itself. Yeah. This is the right thing, I will do it. This is the wrong thing, I will not do it. So we have that conscience.

And a part of conscience is the sense of guilt. If I do something wrong, I myself feel bad about it. And then I try to fix things. So conscience and guilt, these are good things. Guilt itself is not a bad thing.

However, what can happen is instead of the guilt coming, guilt over here is the feeling that I did a bad thing. So and I did a bad thing, I should not do this bad thing. That is a good sense. But sometimes instead this guilt comes over here. And this actually is not guilt.

This you can call as pseudo guilt. This is what I am a bad person. So when I’m a bad person, the idea is I I will never be able to do anything worthwhile. If I’m never going to be able to do anything worthwhile, then why even try anything? So when the guilt comes at this level, then it prevents us from doing anything constructive.

It’s like, you know, I I tried so much yet I yelled at that person. And then I yelled at that person, so I get so upset with myself that afterwards with others I can be polite. But what is the use? So I’m rude with everyone. It sounds stupid when you speak like that, but we all do like that.

Sometimes we are angry with ourselves for having behaved in a particular way, and then we stop trying to behave properly with everyone. We just become irritable with everyone. Sometimes we try to fight against one temptation. We can’t we give into it. We are not able to resist it and then we just start indulging in temptation indiscriminately.

That is where what is happening is we are over identifying with that. And accept that some battles we may not win. But just because we can’t win some battles, does not mean that we have no fighting capacity. Yes, sometimes we don’t have fighting capacity, but that doesn’t mean we never have the fighting capacity. So niyamaakshama is something which has to be acknowledged as something which is, it’s a real possibility.

It will take time to be overcome. So I said I’ll talk about 3 points over here. So the first was set boundaries. 2nd is persist. Persist in between the surges of the urges.

And the third would be that when we are functioning in our lives. Now purification is what I’ll talk about and purification has many aspects to it, which we will go into in the next part of this. But at this point, when the battle is going on and the battle just does not seem winnable for us, So at that time, what do we do? We need to be able to push on, and to be able to push on, we need some amount of confidence. We need some amount of hope.

We need to feel that that we don’t want to over identify with that. Like, I am a bad person. Yes. There are con to say that I’m a bad person, that is like we are denying our spirituality. Yes, I have bad conditionings, but to say that I’m a bad person means we are almost saying that I am not a part of Krishna, that that Krishna made a mistake in creating me.

No. We are parts of Krishna. There is a core goodness to every one of us, because at the core, we are souls, and the soul is always a part of Krishna. So at this point, it is that when we okay, I’ve decided that I’ll try to outlast the temptation. If I can’t outlast, at least I’ll persist in between.

But then when I’m persisting, what do I do within that? So here we need to do something meaningful. I mentioned this point earlier. So some of these points I mentioned earlier, but I’m repeating them here. That we need some positive feeling within us.

So sometimes we may feel too positive and deny our faults. Sometimes we feel too negative and deny that there’s any goodness within us at all. So what we want is that okay, there is some potential goodness within me. There is something which I can do of value. So basically here, when we say persist, at one level it’s persist in fight persist in fighting.

But we also need to persist and see if there is it if there is a war within a war there can be many battles. You know, there can be battle 1, battle 2, battle 3, battle 4. There are many battles we are fighting. So for example, we may find that I want to chant attentively. That’s one battle I’m fighting.

But maybe, you know, some days we win that battle or some days we don’t even know we are in the battle and we lost the battle also. Isn’t it? So it happened like that. But if I decided, you know, actually, I like philosophy. So maybe, you know, every day I will read the Bhagavad Gita.

I’ll read Bhagavad Gita for 15 minutes, half an hour. And then if we do that, you can say, okay, last 1 month, I did this. You know, I completed a one kanto. That’s that’s a good job. And I could have got distracted.

I did not get distracted. So basically, we need to find a winnable battle. And there is a positive view of ourselves. Overall, we need to have a view of ourselves which is positive. Yes, I have problems, but still I have potentials also.

I am a part of Krishna. So how do we get this positive view of ourselves? Essentially it is we set a meaningful goal for ourselves. Okay. Okay.

Maybe when temptation comes, I may not be able to resist it. But you know this, I can do this service. I can read the shastra. I can follow this discipline that set a meaningful goal and take tangible steps toward that goal. So instead of saying see sometimes we set goals in which there is no success.

There’s only failure. What do I mean by that? If somebody sets a goal, I will never eat sweets for the rest of my life. Well, there is no success because we may not eat sweets for 1 year, but the rest of life is still remaining. Isn’t it?

So what happens is we will succeed in something for 1 year and after that if we relapse, all that we will think is we failed in that goal. Sometimes we set goals that are no success in that goal only, isn’t it? So instead, we need to set a meaningful goal. Okay. Okay.

For 1 month, I’m not going to do this. For 1 week, I’m not going to do this. So it could be I’m not going to do this, or it could also be I am going to do this. So when we do that, set a meaningful goal. By that, what happens?

If this is a winnable battle for us, okay, this I can do. Then when we do that, okay, whether I succumb to this see whether when I get angry, I yell at someone, I behave improperly. I’ll make sure that whenever normally I interact, you know, I will say please. I’ll say thank you. If I see somebody doing something good, I’ll appreciate them.

So there are certain things which we can do. And so we set a tangible, meaningful goal that is doable for us. Not just a meaningful goal, set a meaningful doable goal for us. There are some things which may not be doable. There’s some things we know this is doable for me.

So we set a meaningful doable goal and just take tangible steps toward that. If we do this, this will create a certain level of self confidence or I wanna use this word, hope over here. We don’t want to be hopeless. Yes, there are sometimes hopelessness can create humility, but sometimes hopelessness can just create hopelessness. Ultimately God helps those who help themselves.

If I think that I am so fallen that even God can’t help me, then God help you. Isn’t it like that? You know, who can help you then? Ultimately, we have to have that hope that we can be helped. And then therefore, setting some goal which we can take tangible steps towards.

That is very helpful. So this gradually not till now I have not really talked about how to develop the ability to follow rules. I’m just saying that while we are in a phase, we are unable to follow. So we we do these three things. So the 3 steps which I mentioned is first is outlast.

We don’t have to overpower, but we learn to outlast. Now if we can’t outlast, then persist in between. Then while we are persisting, it’s not just like we are defending. Okay. We are waiting for the attacker in which we are persisting.

Here, we also try to achieve it makes some target. We try to achieve something. So what happens by this is that each one of us, we can create this positive feeling. So I will move forward to the next part of this and then we will have some question answers. Now there is this battle that we have with the sense objects.

And by this process, I acknowledge that my mind is sometimes having impression that are too strong. I may not be able to or call overpower them. I may succumb to them at times. So it’s like bollywood.com that becomes auto complete. And if I just sometimes don’t pay attention, the b comes and I press enter and I go to bollywood.com.

I can’t that happens sometimes. But then I don’t have to stay there for hours over there. As soon as I realize, I pick myself up and I come out of that. But then we need to also that that Vairagya is there, but Abhijas is there. We want to have okay.

Bhagwadhi.com, we want to keep visiting. So the remaining three stages are they are more directly about bhakti. So I’ll talk about the 3 stages. So itself has one aspect is how do we deal with the? But the other is how do we deal with the?

How do we connect with the? So the next 3, so we can say. Is that which is meaningful. That is valuable. How do we develop the desire for that?

So in this stage of we discussed 3 of them which mainly deal with fighting. Dealing with. So now the remaining 3 are about connecting with the artha. So one is. I’ll ex and then another is there is.

And then there is. So. Means it is like oscillating moody. That sometimes we become very serious in our bhakti. Sometimes we become very casual in our bhakti.

Basically oscillating or moody, we can say. So that our connection with Krishna is moody. Tarangarangini means that there are peripheral pleasures. Peripheral pleasures means that I am not so much interested in bhakti itself. I’m interested in the fringe benefits of bhakti.

A fringe benefits of bhakti means, like say, you know, oh, in this voice they train you how to do public speaking. So you you come to study the Bhagavad Gita about your interest in public speaking. Okay. Yeah. You now we may learn public speaking, but if you’re coming for that, then we are actually undervaluing what we are getting over here.

Isn’t it? How you may learn this skill, you may learn that skill. It’s good if you learn those skills. You can use them in Krishna’s service. But if that is where we are getting the pleasure.

And is where it’s like there is a lot of show of the devotion. One is where we ourselves seeks pleasure in the peripherals, but here it is like we are interested in showing off. It’s more like, you can say I’ll talk about it in a minute, we are interested more in proving not improving. It’s like proving that my path is better than your path. Proving that I am better than you.

Not improving myself. So where there’s enthusiasm, but the enthusiasm is for showing others. It is not for purifying ourselves. So these are the three things which may go off when we are trying to develop the earth, when we are trying to connect with Krishna. So right now I’ll talk about today I’ll talk about ghanatarla, then tomorrow morning I’ll talk about the next.

Okay. So ghanatarla means sometimes we feel very enthusiastic in our devotion and sometimes we just don’t feel at all enthusiastic. Sometimes we just feel like we are chanting. Sometimes we feel, you know, I I wanna chant more rounds. Sometimes we just take out the beads.

You know, has somebody chained the beads? There are 1,008 beads. There’s a 108. This is just not getting over. What is happening?

So that moodiness comes up. So at this point, when there is that moodiness, again, see our mind is like a child. And we need to recognize that the mind and there are many ways to deal with this moodiness. I’ll just focus on 2 main ways. That if we consider the mind to be like a child.

Now sometimes, you know, parent now somebody becomes a parent. In the past, there was extended family and then the grandparents were there, uncles were there, and they would all help in taking care of the children. But now, maybe people live in nuclear families, and it’s like you have to take care of the child entirely yourself. You know, many devotees from India I mean, people from India, they go and settle abroad. And when they settle abroad, when they have children, they generally ask their in laws or their parents to come and stay with them.

During COVID nobody could come. So the COVID babies, you know, there are challenges both from the parents side and the children’s side. Children don’t get to socialize. The children, they just see people, they get scared. Where did all these people come from?

I never saw people in my life. But for the parents also, they take care of the children. There’s no support system. So it was difficult. So the point is that sometimes you may read parenting books, you may ask other parents, and that is good.

But each child is an individual. What works for one child may not work for another child. If the same parent has 2 children, it’s not that there is a parenting formula that everybody can use. Now if you are twins, the twins may have different personalities. So the point is each mind is an individual.

So your mind is different from my mind, and we cannot just use, like, a a brute force approach. This approach worked for you, and it has to work for everyone. Each mind is an individual. So what what does that mean? That we have to learn how we can help our mind to learn.

We need to learn how we can help our mind to learn. This is especially true, say, if some parents have an autistic child. Now autism is a big spectrum. There is some cognitive developmental issue. There are some behavioral issues.

There are kinesthetic issues. So now that doesn’t mean the child is dumb. The child may be very intelligent in its own way. So it is not that my child can’t learn, my child is foolish. The parents have to spend some time to learn.

How can I help my child to learn? So like that, rather than saying my mind is a fool, my mind is an enemy, yeah, that may be true. It acts like that at times. But the mind is also an individual, and we have to find out. Sometimes we just have to use force.

We have to do this, but we cannot be using force all the time. We have to learn how we can help our mind to learn. So what does this mean? It could may might exist. Somebody’s sitting for a class.

Some devotees may find that they can pay the most attention, and they just don’t make any notes. Sit and hear. I may feel, you know, I just want to immerse myself in the experience. Even though I don’t remember all the points, you know, I just want to be absorbed in the class. Someday, what do you find when I make notes?

That’s when I may miss some point. I may not make all the notes, but that’s when I am more absorbed. Some people say, I just want to make notes. I mean, I’ll draw something. I’ll have a pencil with multiple markers, multiple colors.

I’ll underline this, I’ll highlight this. And somebody say, were you attending a philosophical class or was it an art competition? There are so many things over here. So with respect to chanting, some devotees will be able to sit and chant attentively. Some devotees may find that, you know, if they walk, they might be able to chant better.

Sometimes what happens is we just use oversimplified categorization. Somebody would say, you sit and chant, it’s sathoguna. You stand and chant, it’s rajoguna. You walk and chant, it’s the muguna. Wow.

What is it? Then you sit and sleep, where is it? Is it so here you go. It’s not that simple. Yeah.

You you we could say that generally sitting and chanting, we can focus better. But it’s not that simple. Each mind is different. Now, of course, if you’re walking and going on a sightseeing tour, then that’s different. But if you’re walking and trying to focus, sometimes what happens is the mind is just running everywhere and we’re not able to focus it.

And we’re just not able to we’re not able to slow it down. And sometimes the mind is just going nowhere. It, like, got caught in inertia. Sometimes we have to shake it a little bit. It’s like it’s so lethargic.

So each mind is different. And each one of us has to find out how best can I connect with Krishna? So for some people, it may be that when they’re reading. Some devotees may be able to read I read it alone, and I can read well. Some devotees may be I I said to the group with someone else or with a group, and we read aloud.

And then different devotees speak their realizations or speak a little bit. But I like reading in a group. Now which is right? It depends. Some devotees may feel that I read in a group, you know, I can get things from so many perspectives.

And it’s so stimulating. I don’t get to think at all. You know, I need to pause and think. So each one of us has an individual mind. Now, of course, there are universal universal principles in bhakti, and there are certain standard ways in which you practice also.

But each one of us has to find out how when you say how we can get the mind to learn, that means there are like stages. This is a whole big thing. 1st, we are able to pay attention. Then we are able to trigger some attraction. And then we go towards absorption.

So for each one of us when we say remember Krishna or be Krishna conscious. So first, we are just paying attention. And then so for example, somebody may sit for a class. They’re not they’re not constantly looking at the phone. They are paying attention.

That’s the first step. But then, hey, this seems interesting. Now it’s not that everything in a class may seem interesting, but we may find one point interesting. And from that point, the attraction starts growing. And from that attraction, eventually, absorption will come.

So this journey is often an individual journey. So instead of simply saying that, you know, my mind is so uncontrolled, well, yes, there is truth through that. But learn how we can help our mind to learn That we don’t really want to treat our mind permanently like an enemy. Okay. Okay.

Maybe at this time when I study, I’m able to focus better. At this time if I study, I get too distracted. We have to observe the patterns of our mind. So that means that here, you know, we started with Shaddha means curiosity. So like that we can have when this moodiness comes up.

Rather than I’m so moody, you know, I just become lazy at times. Okay. Maybe that is true, but it’s not just I’m such a lazy person. I’m so inconsistent. I’m so unreliable.

I don’t instead of using labels you know, labels are very unhelpful. Labels often, they block understanding. I’ll explain what this means. So if you had to overcome moodiness, say for example, there is some plane which crashes and then the government appoints a committee to find out what caused the plane crash. Then some person comes along and says, why are you spending so much money and time in doing investigation?

I know what caused the plane crash. Okay. What caused it? Gravity. Now is gravity the cause of the plane crash?

Well, yes. Obviously, yes. And obviously, no. Isn’t it? It’s like, yes.

Obviously, gravity is the cause. But the point is, it’s not the relevant explanation. Planes are designed to fly in spite of gravity. So what we want to know is, what caused the mechanism by which the plane could fly? What caused that mechanism to malfunction?

So like that, if somebody says, you know, we yell at someone. You know, I’m just a short-tempered person. Or if you over eat and, you know, my my my watch over is too strong. Okay. That is one explanation.

But if suppose I am short-tempered, are we short-tempered 24 hours a day? No. Then still we can say, okay. Now what happened prior to that? What was I thinking at that time?

No. Maybe there were 5 people who made some unreasonable demands to me on that day. And when the 6th person came up, it was just unbearable for me. Now that is not a that is not a justification for that’s still what we did was wrong. But still, okay, then I get some understanding.

You know, maybe if multiple people are getting to my nerves, then maybe I should avoid meetings likely to be provocative. Maybe I can be polite, but I can be forming up, can we meet tomorrow or something like that? So we need to work with ourselves. So we need to gain better self understanding. So that’s why instead of labels instead of labeling, we need curiosity.

Learn how we can help ourselves to learn. So, okay, what are the times when I tend to which are the times when I tend to become very moody? Was there something that happened before that which triggered my negativity, which triggered my apathy? Now sometimes we may be able to find some patterns, sometimes we may not find, but have that attitude of learning, and then we’ll find that things are not as unmanageable as they seem. They’re still tough, but they are not unmanageable.

See the problem with using, like, a raw brute force approach. Brute force approach means no matter how I feel, you know, I’m gonna wake up. I’m gonna chant attentively. Well, yes, we should try to do that. But maybe if some days we find our mind was wandering way too much to see what happened.

Maybe I ate too much previous night or maybe, you know, I had when I slept, I forgot to have blanket with me, and that’s why I didn’t sleep very well. And then that’s why I was struggling with sleep all day. So okay. Then maybe when I sleep, next time I let me keep a blanket. They’re small things, but we don’t want to simply suppress our mind.

So it’s like when we say there is self transformation. There are 2 opposite ways in which self transformation can happen. Now say we have we have a higher self and we have a lower self. Now roughly we can say the lower self is the mind, the higher self is the intelligence, but that’s a little lower simplified. Higher self is that which understands.

I want to be kind. I want to have a service attitude. The lower self is, you know, I want respect. I want I want to be served. I want people to be pay attention to me.

Whatever it is. It’s like more ego. So we have a higher self and we have a lower self. So now there are 2 models of growth. One is that the higher self goes higher and the lower self goes lower.

So what happens by this is the higher self goes higher. The lower self goes lower means that the lower self is basically buried underground. That even if somebody irritates me, you know, I have such ironclad self control that not even a slight sign of displeasure will come on my face. So what happening, there are certain emotions that are inside us, there are certain desires inside us, but we are burying them underground. Now what happens by this is it’s like the self itself is getting very stretched over here.

This eventually leads to too much inner tension, And that inner tension can cause a breakdown. It’s like a rubber band. You pull it pull it pull it too much. It can pull, but eventually it’ll just break. So like that many times we think discipline means my lower self, I’ll just bury it completely.

So on the other hand so this is not a sustainable way of growing. The healthier way of growing is that when there is growth it is that it is my higher self goes up and my lower self also goes up. What does that mean? Say like the lower self also goes up. That means say I may still get angry but even when I get angry, my anger is within boundaries.

So maybe before I came to Bhakti, when I was angry, maybe I would use speak use swear words, speak obscenities. Now also I may get angry, but I’m never going to speak swear words. So my anger is still there, but that expression of anger has also come within more cultured boundaries. Is this difference clear? The lower self is also rising with me.

It’s not that the lower self has disappeared and only the higher self is there. The lower self is still there, but the lower self is also rising. So, like, somebody may, you know, when they want to eat, they have an urge to eat. It’s like they when the urge to eat comes, they will not even consider whether the food is offered to Krishna or not, or even whether the food is vegetarian or not. Just eat anything.

But when we start practicing bhakti, the lower self rises, okay. I may get the urge to eat, but then I will eat only food that is vegetarian, food that is offered to Krishna. Maybe the urge is so strong that even while I’m eating Krishna, please take this offering, and I offer it to myself. Now that is not the best way to do things. But the idea that I should offer that food and even when the urge is very strong, that is still there.

So that is what that is an indication that even the lower self is rising up. It’s still a lower self. Maybe that food is not properly cooked, maybe not properly offered, but still the lower self is there somewhere over there. So the point is this is a sustainable way of growing. That is why, again we made this point that Krishna doesn’t say the mind is an enemy, so you destroy it.

It is saying you need to elevate the mind. So elevate the lower self with the higher self. Elevate yourself with yourself. So this that’s why we need to learn how to get the mind to go along with us. Sometimes force is required, but we can’t just be using that relationship of force all the time.

Just like a parent and a child. Now parents sometimes have to force the child, but if all every single activity the parents have to force the child to do that activity, then there is something wrong. That’s not the way to parent. The child will be resentful. And once the child becomes a teenager, child starts earning money, the child just go away from the parents and say I want nothing to do with you.

You control me so much. So that’s something similar can happen to us also. So that’s why learn how our mind works, so that we can get it to work with us. And in connection with that only, I’ll make the second point. So first, so learn how we can help our mind to learn.

And then the second part is use our strengths to manage our weaknesses. What that means is that I have a particular kind of mind right now. Use, you could say, are even leverage. Leverage means use that as a lever. Leverage our strengths to manage our weaknesses.

So if we consider there are 2 circles that there are things which, are good for us and there are things that feel good for us. So for example, that if you consider food, you know, there is food that is healthy and there is food that is tasty. Now if these two circles were identical, life would be so easy. Unfortunately, they do are not identical. But that doesn’t mean that there is absolutely no overlap between these two.

Suppose there’s a parent, and they say that, you know, the child may just want to eat chocolates and cookies. The parents can’t allow the child to eat only chocolate chocolates and cookies. But the parents observe that, you know, my child likes this subject. That’s a healthy subject. Then the parents will make more of that, isn’t it?

The idea is that if something is healthy and something is also found to be tasty, then still that cannot be the only meal. But that can be made more. So each one of us can find out if we can see the activity that are good or say the activities of bhakti. The activities that feel good to us, now they can come from both. They can come from our.

They can come from our vasana. So basically feel good means the mind likes it, you can see. So now the vasanas, we need to regulate. But as far as the is concerned, say, if somebody likes to study, you know, they they like to study. Now what they study, you go there many you book give a book of philosophy.

You get a book book about, politics. You give a book about biography. You give a book about some investigative fiction. They just like to read. So if that is the case, then maybe when they have extra time or when they have some free time we all have certain prescribed duties in our bhakti in our life, but we have some spare time.

Now if at that time such a person you told him, no, don’t read extra. You chant extra. They may not find chanting nourishing because for them, reading may be nourishing. So if we can find out this is a this is a step forward. We learn how to help our mind to learn.

Then what we find is, okay, what are the things that my mind likes to do which are also good for me? So if we learn to we find those and then we do those more, then what will happen is there will be a space where we can experience happiness at our level right now. There is there is the lower taste. There is the lower material taste and then there is the higher spiritual taste. So what happens is we want to go from our lower material taste to the higher spiritualist.

Param Drishva vibarthati. But what happens is it can sometimes feel that the higher taste is too high up. And sometimes in trying to go to the higher taste we go halfway up and we end up further down only. We think, you know, that is just not attainable for me. So for many of us, we could have an intermediate higher material spiritual taste.

Now what do I mean by material spiritual taste? Is that it’s like our used for seva. That it’s our vrutti, so it’s material. But it is used for seva, so it becomes spiritual. That means that somebody has a natural interest in music, and they would have anyway been interested in music, but they come to Bhakti and say, no, I won’t like to learn musical instruments.

I would like to learn different tunes. So it is their vrutti. But along with the vrutti, they’re also doing it as a seva. They’re doing it for Krishna. So what happens that the pure higher taste in terms of just taste for chanting the holy names, the taste for worshiping the deities, that may take time to come.

So that is where we you know, I would let us say we talk about and all those things. Those take time to come. But we can this is actually the principle of Varanasram also. Varanasram is what? Basically whatever the vrutti the word vrutti can mean tendency, but that can also become our profession.

So whatever is our inclination, if it can become a profession, then that’s what people also say that I have some job satisfaction over here. This is what I find meaningful. This is what I really like to do. So we can try to find within our by our self observation, what are my strengths? Strength means what is my vrutti, and how can I dovetail my that vrutti in Krishna’s service?

So when we do this, then it can help us to connect with Krishna. So for example, you know, I I love words. So words, I have, like, a lot of taste for words. Sometimes I have read a whole book. I don’t even know what is the cover page.

It’s like I can somebody can give me a magazine. I don’t even notice the picture. I just immediately my eyes go to the caption. The caption is interesting. Then I look at the picture.

So I’m very verbal person. I’m not a very visual person. And I have, like, no I have very little taste for music. It’s a weird thing, but, whatever it is. So once I was giving a class and I said when you are taking darshan, you know, when Govinda Madhi Purushyam is going on, then, you know, we can memorize a verse and we can offer that verse to Krishna.

And then we can be absorbed in Krishna. So I said this, you know, that way, every day when we’re taking darshan, we can be offering a verse to Krishna. So after a couple of days, when devotee came to me, he said, bro, I tried to memorize verses, you know, and now darshan has become like a torture for me. I said, what happened? He said that, you know, the darshan, the music is so nice, goin Nam, adi, purusham.

That used to trigger devotion within me, but now I have so much anxiety to remember the words that whatever devotion is there goes away because of the anxiety. So what happened, for him, the music itself was bringing the absorption. For me, the music was not bringing the absorption. So for me memorization and recollection, that was bringing absorption. So like you remember attention, attraction, absorption.

So what will work for 1 may not work for another person. So each one of us is to find out how we get that taste. How we get that taste? Now is it a material? Is it spiritual?

Well, it’s both. It is coming from our particular buddhi, which is in our body mind machine. So it’s material, but it’s directed toward Krishna, so it’s spiritual. So this way what happens is that in our bhakti also, we have a range of activities that we do. And there are some activities that give strength to us.

And there are some activity that require strength. Okay. Come on. Now I have to do this. Like food.

Some food we enjoy eating. Some food okay. I should tolerate it. Okay. Finish now.

It’s like we are tall. It may be bitter. It may be not tasty, but I know it’s healthy. So I have to eat it. We will have both these categories in our life.

It’s like people also. There are some people, it is said, some people bring happiness wherever they go, and some people bring happiness whenever they go. So now now we all will have both kind of people in our life. We can’t avoid that. But if we are only constantly associating with people, with whom we feel like every word is like walking on a landmine, what will cause an explosion, we don’t know.

No. There may be some people like that, and we have to be very, very careful with them. But if that is the only kind of people we are meeting, then, you know, we will start hating all meetings only. I just can’t do it. So we have to intersperse.

You know, this person gets on my nerves. Okay. I met this person, then maybe let me call a friend who understand me. Let me talk with them. So we need to balance our emotional energy.

If some some people require strength, then we we as a duty we have to meet them. But then the people from whom we get strength, we also need to make time to talk with those people, to be associate with them, and then we get some strength by that. It’s like food. There are some activities which require energy. There are some activities which give energy to us.

So we naturally balance that at the physical level. If I had somebody who’s done, like, heavy physical activity, okay, now I need to get some I eat some nutritious food. We naturally do that, but we need to understand that principle for other activities also. So for us, in bhakti, also there are some activities which give strength to us, and some activities require strength. So maybe for many devotees, kirtan gives strength.

Maybe japa requires strength. It may vary, whatever it is. But some devotees before coming to bhakti, they might be doing solitary meditation. And, you know, maybe they were chanting mantras before or they were doing some kind of silent meditation. Those who use maybe if there are some people like that, those who do silent meditation before, though for them, japa is very immersive.

For them, kirtan is very noisy. And this is one thing which very strikingly I noticed, kirtans in India and kirtans in the west. The kirtans in the west, the kind of kirtans people like, they are more prayerful, more reflective, more meditative, gentle, soft instruments. And people want peace. You know, there are some people who don’t want peace, they want ecstasy.

And the 2 are different needs, isn’t it? So the so then there are people who there’s one kirtan here. He was a I mean, he he does some also. They’re like for him, it’s a is like a concert. And for 1 there are the ticket is $500.

And people just go and sit and hear the I feel so good about it. So if people have come from a meditative background, then what happens is that’s what gives them strength. And okay. So so japa also, they want to do it. Soft gentle japa.

Somebody’s doing loud japa. They just started glaring at that person. You know? You know, your japa is disturbing me. Okay.

Then they may want to go and sit in some corner and do some japa. So the point I’m saying is each mind is different. And for us we have to see what gives me strength. Instead of just saying I’m a moody person and my mood goes off sometimes. Okay.

It can happen to every one of us, but then what are the activities I can do when my mood is down? If my mood is down, and that time I have to do activity that requires strength, that will be too much of a demand on myself. If chanting is very difficult for me, and I don’t feel like doing anything. And somebody says, you know, okay. Don’t your mood is out.

Go chant 64 rounds. Oh, what craziness is that? I I can’t even chant 60 round. Right? I don’t feel like chanting.

How can I chant 64? I said, no. That will give you strength. Well, okay. But how will I get the strength till I till it gives me strength?

So it’s good for your future me. Yeah. But what about the present me? Isn’t it? Sometimes we feel that, you know, you are so concerned about my future me, but you’re not concerned about my present me.

I’m feeling suffocated right now. So we have to find out what gives us strength and then do those activities when we feel down. Then we start feeling like coming up. So we can’t avoid moodiness. So there is each one of us, if we can make a list of 3 activities that give strength to us.

Say for example, it could be, you know, hearing a particular devotee’s classes or say reading a particular book or say reciting a particular set of verses or singing Vaishnava bhajans. We make a list of 3 activities that gives us strength. And then maybe we make a list of 3 activities that require strength words, which in the normal course of our life we have to do those activities. Then we can draw strength from the activity that give us strength and use that to do the activity that requires strength. So some days we just don’t feel like chanting.

Then maybe pause. Maybe in the mind we can recite some shloka which we like. Maybe in our mind only we can sing some kari krishna dhun according to our key. Some favorite dhun which we like. Sing the Hariksha mantra a few times.

So now this is we don’t want to do it regularly. We don’t want to convert our japa session into kirtu session. Japa is japa. But if we’re just trying to force ourselves not working, then okay, maybe chant some forums, take a little break, do something that gives us strength, and then we do that thing which requires strength for us. So like that we can manage our own we can use like that’s why I said leverage this to manage this.

Leverage our strengths to manage our weaknesses. It’s like in a war. If there is a team, you know, that if one player is good at if one fighter is good at one thing, other fighter is good at another thing. Then the 2 come together, I manage your weaknesses, you manage my weaknesses. So like that we work with our mind.

And in that way we’ll find that those those dry phases that come in our life, when our mood goes down, when we just don’t feel like doing anything, we will be able to push through those phases. We will be able to survive. We will be able to, even strengthen ourselves to those things. And in that way, this this moodiness, we can overcome it. So sometimes we now we may also be consistent, but sometimes being consistent is very difficult.

But even if we can’t be consistent, we can be resilient. So resilient means I may be knocked down but I rise up again. Just because I’m knocked down, just because I feel down, that doesn’t mean I give up completely. You may decide that every day I’m going to read 1 hour shastra. And then maybe some days we are not able to read at all.

For whatever reason, you might just beat us. I’m a undisciplined person. I have no will power. No. Okay.

Today, they are not able to read. Now I’m feeling better. My things are better organized. Let me start reading again. Let me look back and see what could I have done something different?

Maybe I could have planned it better. I should have anticipated in this way that I won’t have this much time. So we can learn. So the way to manage this is stop expecting that we can be consistent in everything’s in everything. We can be consistent in some things, but we may not be consistent in everything.

So if we can’t be consistent, be resilient. And in that way, we will be able to even if our moods go down, we may go down, but we won’t stay down. We will rise up again. So I’ll summarize what we discussed today. Mainly I discussed 2 things.

We discussed Indanartha Naruthi. We discussed the stage of what are the first stage? Niyama akshamma. So niyama akshamma is inability to follow rules. So in that connection we discussed how if somebody is unable to follow.

So is say an anartha, it could be anger, it could be alcoholism. Is it like a medical disorder or is it a moral defect? So we discussed it can be both. When it is a state of a snow pebble, it is a moral defect. But when it becomes a snow boulder, it is a medical disorder.

So medical disorder means that not that it can’t be dealt with, but the idea is willpower alone is not enough. So there is a process required for dealing with that. And then I discuss 3 parts. 1 is outlast. And it’s like a arm wrestling match.

So the urge may have a surge, but the surge will not last. So we can try to outlast it. This is where we tolerate things. We can use boundaries to help us tolerate. The second is we persist.

Don’t let what has happened in between the when the urges have gone up to define us. Okay. I did something bad, but that does not make me a bad person. We discussed that guilt should come between us and the unearth. So guilt should be here, guilt should not be between us and the earth.

We should become so discouraged that I will not do anything at all. That does that is unhealthy. And then while we are persisting, what we can try to do is find some winnable battles. So that we try to cultivate hope. So hope comes naturally by finding a tangible goal, a meaningful goal, and steps toward that goal.

So that way, yes, it’s not that I am worthless. But okay, that battle I can’t win, but this battle I am winning. And then the second was about ghanatarla. So ghanatarla is that where our basically there’s moodiness within us. So I started that the mind is like a child.

So each child is an individual and each child needs to be dealt with individually. The 2 steps is learn how to help our mind to learn. So if you consider the child is autistic, for example, then it’s not the child is a bad child. I have to learn how to help it. I can learn.

So we discussed how when we want to grow the higher self and the lower self. It’s not the higher self goes upward and the lower self goes downwards. Rather the higher self and the lower self both go up. That’s what is sustainable. So for this, we have to take our mind along with us.

And the first principle I talked about over here is that we learn what is what is good and what feels good. We try to find the intersection. And that way this can become our strength. So this will be easier to do when we are feeling down. And then after that, then we leverage our strength to manage our weakness.

That means that when our mood is down, we do the activities that give strength first and then we are able to push on to do the activities that require strength. And that way we won’t be simply forcing ourselves through things, but we will be managing our emotional energy. The emotions are also real things and just as physical energy has to be managed, emotional energy management is also required. And that’s why we can try to be consistent. But if we can’t be, then we can try to be resilient.

Resilient means even if I go down, I’ll pick myself up and I’ll keep moving onwards. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions or comments? Yes.

Do we have mic? Hi, Krishna. Prabhu. Is there can there be some activities which require strength, but after that, they give strength? Yeah.

Of course. See, all devotional activities will ultimately give strength to us. So when we become purified, we become connected with Krishna, and that gives strength. So sometimes we just have to go through the poison till we get there to the nectar. So, yes, there are activity like that.

But still that sometimes we can push on till we get to the strength level, but sometimes it’s just too difficult to push on. Like sometimes, say, when we wake up in the morning almost every day, we may not feel like waking up. But say after we wake up, we take a bath, we come in the association. We feel better after some time. So there’s a little bit of poison, but after that the nectar starts coming up.

You know, I get a great start to my day. I’ve been able to manage so many things, and that is good. Thank you. Yes, Bruno? Hare Krishna, Prajaji.

Prajaji, you have told that, for going from lower material test to higher spiritual test, it is it may be very far, so we will succumb we will go till higher material spiritual test. So after that stage, how we can go to higher spiritual test? We’ll talk about that when we come to the next stage after Nishtha. See there’s ruchi and there’s asakti. At the stage of ruchi we are attracted to the activities of bhakti.

By the age of asakti we are attracted to the person Krishna. And what I am doing is not important that I am doing this for Krishna is important. So that is a quite advanced stage where we’re not really like some people will say, I want to I want to paint for Krishna. I want to sing for Krishna. I had cook for Krishna, but you know, okay, fundraising for Krishna, I don’t want to do that.

So that’s okay. That’s about one stage. But then whatever Krishna wants, because Krishna is my concern. Whatever you need for Krishna, I’ll do that. Thank you.

So when the personal connection to Krishna becomes very strong, then the person becomes important and activity is not that important. Hare Krishna Puruji. I cannot understand one point that, you told the 3 steps, to, stop our, to rectify ourselves from our medical disorder, like, to set, boundaries or, outlast. And the second point was persist. So how can persistence, help us recovering from medical disorder?

Like, does that, increase the frequency of our RJs or it reduces the amplitude of our RJs? Good question. So we are not really still talking about purification directly. You know, I’m just talking about the ghanatar line that I say talk about staying on in our practice of bhakti. But bhakti creating new impressions within us.

That is what will actually transform us. So it’s like when the healthier impressions are formed inside us then they start coming as propositions from within. So that will happen with time. But what I was saying is that when we say persist, the point is there is the objective fact that we have lost a match. We have lost a fight.

But there’s a subjective feeling that I am a loser. I’m never going to win. We don’t want that. The objective fact that we have lost, we need to deal with that fact also. That means we may have to become stronger.

So how to become ourselves stronger? That’s that’s tomorrow morning session when I’ll be talking about mister Rangini and Utsa Hamay. Okay. Thank you. Yes.

Vishay Sangra is Well, from what I have seen, the Madhurikandan mini Sanskrit is not that clear. That has been translated to English by different devotees and not all the English translations are equally accurate. So I can find the exact reference for that, but, yeah. In some translations, it is given at a sequential, but in some translations, when I talk with some of the devotees, it need not be. And the lived experiences is not necessary that, you know, it also depends on one’s conditionings.

For some people, some conditioning may pop up earlier, some conditioning may pop up later, Some conditioning may stay for a longer time. So I don’t think it has to be linear. So that both from the Sanskrit precise precise Sanskrit, what are the words used and from the lived experience. It doesn’t have to be one after the other essentially. Okay.

That’s my understanding. Yes, please. Hi, Krishna. You mentioned one of the ways of, dealing with higher end, lower self, instead of completely abnegating the lower self, we raise both the lower and higher self. But sometimes, the earlier lower self, is not just acceptable to even, I mean, remain in certain cases.

For example, we happen to end up in a conflict with the devotee And, a higher lower self could mean that we also express anger to some degree, but then that could mean an I mean, I don’t know. It can mean an offense. So and it also we don’t want to commit an offense at the same time. What you said is perfectly right. We cannot bury that bury that also.

So then where do we go then? See, personally, I’m very cautious about using the word offense because it’s a very, liberally banded around term, and it is the fear of offence that keeps relationships very superficial. The fear of offence that prevents, problems from being addressed in time. So the leftist critic of this whole idea of offense is that the people in power, whether it’s the Brahmanas or the Vaishnavas or the Gurus, they created this as a structure to insulate themselves from criticism. That you know, if I am the guru, if you criticize me it’s a guru upra, then you will go to hell.

And that’s the way the guru protects oneself. It’s a system created where nobody can criticize me. I can do whatever I want and I raise myself above all else. That’s of course not true. Because any spiritual culture is a culture of respect, but it is a sad reality that this the whole idea of aparad can be manipulated.

At least in Shastra, I have not seen any devotee telling another devotee. Don’t behave like this. I have a Vaishnava. You’re coming in a prad to me. No devotee says like that.

That is not mood of a devotee. So I would say that it’s important that we have some space where we deal with our emotions. Sometimes it can be by talking with the devotee. Sometimes it can be talking with somebody else. That’s why we have some ombudsman.

We have mediation. And so is anger against devotees an aprad? It depends. It depends on what has been done and how it has been dealt with. Sometimes anger is necessary.

Like Nadaguni told, that snake, you know, don’t bite, but you have to show your fangs. Isn’t it so? Specifics will have to be dealt with. I I don’t want to give any any answer that may not apply in a specific situation, but the point is that it’s not that all emotions are necessarily wrong. If we are passing by a school and there is some big bully terrorizing some small kid, if we don’t feel anger at that time, there’s something wrong with us.

There’s something wrong with our humanity, isn’t it? So anger is not always a bad thing. There are bad things happening in the world, and if we don’t feel anger when those bad things happen, then then that is a bad thing about our conscience. Isn’t it so? Anger itself is not a bad thing.

Now, of course, just because that bully is terrorizing that small kid doesn’t mean that I go and start beating up the bully. What I do for that, I have to use my intelligence. There’s the emotion of anger and there’s the expression of anger. So expression of anger can often be counterproductive, but the emotion of anger can sometimes be indicative that there are things that are wrong. So now the emotion of anger, it can arise from 2 distinct sources.

It’s like a misperception of wrong. That means somebody has done something and we perceive it wrongly. You know, we go to a place and we greet someone and that person just doesn’t greet us. That person deliberately insulted me. That person deliberately insulted me.

But maybe they had something else on their mind and they didn’t even notice us because they were so preoccupied. So sometimes anger can arise from misperception of wrong, but sometimes anger can arise from perception of actual wrong. And if that has happened, then things have to be fixed. Now how to fix that’s a different thing. But the emotion of anger itself is not a bad thing.

It has to be appropriately addressed. How to address it? That we need to have some senior devotee with whom we can talk. Maybe that going to that devotee itself may not be the right thing. You have to go to someone else, You have to talk with that devotee and then come up with a strategy to deal with it.

Okay. Does that address the point? I was asking, like, the definition of, the higher lower self, in a situation where we might, blood out during a conversation could mean that we blood out less. So should we, allow that to happen or should we, like, work on that? You see, that’s a specific issue.

See, boundaries are required by everyone in every. Like I mentioned that even with respect to lust, we might say that there is so much free mixing and there is, sexual sexually liberal culture today. But even in such a culture, there is a boundary that is considered non negotiable. That is consent. You know that without consent, you cannot even touch someone.

That is, there is a posh act and, sexual harassment. It’s very serious. So there will always be boundaries and somebody can’t say that I do this. This is my lower self acting. No.

That we based on the particular culture, the particular law, we have to we have to regulate ourselves. So the point in time, we can’t get into specifics. So yes, sometimes we may not want to blurt out at all, but we don’t want to blurt out inappropriately in a particular conversation. Say if we are talking with our juniors or our equals who don’t know anything about the issue and then we talk about the issue, all that we do is we’re just agitating that person also. But then if you go to a senior and we talk with them, and we try to try to do something to either fix the issue or at least fix ourselves so that we get a better understanding of how could something like this have happened.

How do I make sense of it? So there is an appropriate expression. Inappropriate expression definitely need to be regulated. But when I say take the lower self also along with us, that means we don’t just suppress all expression. Appropriate expression is not considered to be a bad thing.

Now it depends on devotees also. Some devotees may just not approve that kind of thing. How can you think any like this about a senior devotee? Well, okay. Then all that it means is, you know, that not that devotee is not the right person for us to talk with about that kind of issue.

We have to find out somebody who’s a little more like minded. Yeah. Yes, please. Harish, Shnu, Prajak. We are talking of the face of Anarth and Averitti where you have given the analogy of, like, a battlefield.

Like, there there are some battles where we win and there are some battles where we lose. And there are some battles we which we continuously lose. You know, even some years pass in Bhakti and still we lose those battles. Like, if, like, if we take the statement of Srila Prapa, Prapa says that we can understand that whether we are advancing in bhakti, by understanding that how much we are losing interest in material things. That’s the only one parameter.

You cannot make it the sole parameter. The Puntari kudan is still lured in wealth. Nityan Prud you can say he’s a audud, but still he had a he used to wear dress opulently. Prabhupada, the Bhakti san sudakur would mix all the food items, and he would just eat I don’t want my tongue to taste any sense gratification. Prabhupada would not even mix dal and rice.

Prabhupada said, I want to taste the dal separately. I want to taste the rice separately. Now so is it that Paktaal Thakur is more advanced and Prabhupada less advanced? I don’t think we can be that simplistic with respect to these things. You know that Rauvara Das Goswami is one example of enunciation, where he would just drink some buttermilk once in 3 days.

But then there are devotees who would, again, Jagannath Puri would say that, you know, they’ll make up 50, 60 items, and then devotees would eat that, and devotees would feed each other. So see just because something is true does not mean that only that thing is true. Knowledge in the mode of ignorance, Krishna says, it is to make one thing into everything. So take and make it everything. So sometimes some people say, okay.

You said that you, we we lose interest in sleeping. So as we grow older, biologically speaking, different bodies work differently. Some bodies just can’t function without 8, 9 hours sleep. Some bodies may function with 4 hours sleep. Now somebody might not be a devotee and they’re sleeping 4 hours.

Does that mean that they are advanced, spiritually? No. So, yes, overall, the amount of escape way we seek through sleeping sometimes, you know, people, they just get frustrated, you know. I tried this, didn’t work. I tried that, that didn’t work.

I tried that, that didn’t work. Nothing is working. Okay. I just take a blanket, pull it over my head and go to sleep. And then you can’t even sleep.

Even sleeping is not working then. Then you get really frustrated. You have insomnia or things like that. But the point is that we can’t just take one parameter. Some people just need need a particular amount of sleep, and okay, that’s what you need.

That’s what you need. Don’t try to battle with that too much. So, renunciation is also an opulence of Krishna. It’s like beauty is an opulence, strength is an opulence, knowledge is an opulence, wealth is an opulence. So this opulence may come by past karma.

Some people just may be more good looking than others. Does that mean that they’re more spiritually advanced? No. It’s because of past karma. So some people may just by past karma have greater renunciation than others.

From Ayurvedic perspective, somebody has a Kapha body, for them fasting is relatively easier. Somebody has a Pitta body, even a few hours fasting may be very difficult for them. So is it that all people with Kapha body are more spiritually advanced, and all people with Pitta body are spiritually advanced? No. You cannot take one criteria.

Yes. Prabhupada does mention that, but there are other places where Prabhupada will mention other things. So the problem is when we take one statement and absolutize it. Okay? Prajie, when you were giving examples of Pundarika Vidyanidhi or Nithyananda Prabhu, like, they are exalted devotees and, like, where you have explained in previous classes for some people, for devotees, world is a means to attend Krishna, like and all.

So but, that that is not our consciousness. Like, like, there are some universal principles wherein those are not supposed to be done by a bhakta, or there are some principles. The details may change in some principles, but there are some principles where one should not do. Like in such a case, like you were giving the analogy of battlefields, some stats of winning battlefields and losing battlefields, Sometimes when even after some years, we see that we are there are some few battles which we are winning. But when you see the whole statistics and the whole picture, you’ll have confusion whether I’m just going through Bhakti or growing through Bhakti.

That then how can one evaluate themselves that there there are some battlefields which you are winning. But there are some battlefields like the principles there are some stringent principles which one should follow being a devotee. And one one one is Life’s complex. Like Life is complex. You know, we don’t know what conditionings we bring into our life.

And on one side, we say So it is unmotivated and uninterrupted. So now Prabhupada takes it as that we should practice bhakti without any motivation, without any interruption. Vishwanachakra Thakur says that this is a property of bhakti. That means, you know, bhakti itself cannot be interrupted by anything material. So who knows?

Somebody might be an alcoholic, and maybe they cannot give up alcohol for the rest of their life. Is it possible? Well, they may want to do some seva. They may not get they may not be able to get initiated. They may not be able to take particular responsibility in the institution.

But does that mean that they are disqualified from bhakti? No. It doesn’t mean that. Now are you going to guilt them? You know, you are just not chanting Hare Krishna attentively.

Maybe they are. Maybe still, sir. What is happening? It’s life is very complex, and, you know, it’s they cannot, reduce everyone’s, spiritual this reduce people’s spiritual stature to particular rules. So what can we do?

It’s it’s difficult. So they need to find out devotees who understand them. They need to find out like minded association. This is extremely important. So like minded association can also mean a like minded guide.

What that means is, it has 3 factors to it. 1 is that if I am here and the guide is here, Then when they speak, I understand their mind. That means sometimes we ask a question and some people give an answer. That answer only raises further questions in our mind. Like, if I have some question about scripture and I need some logical answer, but somebody has quotes another scripture, verse 2, just express they say the same thing you said over here.

That’s okay, but how do I make sense of it? Sometimes some people’s answers just don’t make sense to us. Some people’s answers make sense to us. So I understand their mind. Then they understand my mind.

That means if I make a particular statement, they don’t just immediately judge and label. You’re being too overanalytical. You are being too sentimental. You know, you are committing an aprat. They don’t just simply conveniently put us into labels.

Okay. I understand that. You know, why you’re thinking like this? Yeah. You know, I also had similar questions when I was 5 years ago in bhakti or 20 years ago in bhakti.

They understand our mind. And 3rd is they help us understand our mind. That means you’re thinking like this. Till this point it is right, but maybe you are not all consider this factor. Oh, okay.

Yeah. That makes sense. So we need empathetic devotees. So are there standards which are nonviable? Of course, there are.

But ultimately, Somebody is chanting Hare Krishna and say, they’re not able to give up some habit. What are you going to do? Are you going to say that, no, they’re a fallen person? Maybe they’re but what are they going to do then? Okay.

You know, I’m chanting, but still this condition keeps coming, and I’m not able to overcome it. What do you do at that time? So we have to acknowledge that life is very complex, and we cannot reduce people to labels. Now could it be that it’s because of insincerity? It’s possible, But could it be because it’s some conditioning from the past it’s very difficult to overcome?

That is also possible. So we need like minded devotee guides who can help us introspect, and then who can go deep into it and see, okay, what’s happening over here? Why is this battle not being won? So, you know, it’s like some devotees may practice 25, 30 years, and still they may get angry. Now if you want to be respectful and not commit uprad, they say their anger is transcendental.

But maybe it is not. Maybe their anger ends up alienating people, antagonizing people. Sincere people go away from bhakti because of their anger. So now maybe if somebody has anger issue, they may be very sincere devotees. They may be diligent in other aspects of their life.

Maybe they’re extremely honest. They’ll not even take 1 penny for themselves. But anger, they just it comes. So maybe if somebody has anger issues, then maybe maybe they should not be in devotee care, isn’t it? So sometimes we have to just help the person.

Okay. This conditioning is not going away. Then acknowledge that this is a vulnerability. This is a weakness. And then let’s not try to do a service which is going to be difficult for you.

So some devotee may be very, very diligent, but suppose, you know, they just just eat too much food, or they they can’t resist sweets or whatever. And you say, you have been practicing bhakti for 30 years. How can you not resist sweets? It’s a small thing. You know, I gave up sweets after practicing bhakti for 3 years.

Well, maybe you didn’t have that condition, that particular condition. So then maybe they need some help. If they have diabetes and they just can’t visit sweets, Then if they are a senior devotee, then whoever is cooking for them, they need to plan that, you know, we will not bring sweets in the menu at all. Now you might say, you should just be able to control. But life is complicated.

The mind is complicated. And if we just go into simple straightforward judgments or like simplistic judgments, it’s not helpful. So I know I wanted I know one devote in Florida. Florida is like a place where many elderly Prabhupada disciples stay. So in America, there’s a dual taxation system.

Like the government has a tax and the state also has a tax. And some states have no taxes. So Florida is like a no state tax place. That’s why it’s like many retired people go and stay over there. And he said, he was telling me that that, you know, that I was told that if you sleep more than 6 hours, that is tamagodha.

So he said, for the last 35 years, I never slept more than 5 and a half hours, no matter how tired I was. But he said that I had a doctor. The old doctor, only younger doctor. He said, your body is immensely sleep deprived. I said, you have to sleep 8 hours.

I said, no. You cannot sleep for more than 6 hours. I said, you know, whatever, Prabhupa said is true, but right now, you just do this. He said that I did it for 3 months and my health insurance bill has gone down by $25,000. In America, they call health care as health scare.

You know, like every small thing. I was once eating I was taking some prasad and somehow in that so that one date, the Agatha beach, seed Agatha. So that I just chewed that. My tooth broke. Like, the whole mouth became bloody.

So then I was at the airport. We went to the next station, and then we went to our doctor. They said that you have to do a root canal, and the root canal is is $1500. I said, $1500? It’s like, where are they?

India, America round trip. So I said, you just give me some pain medication. I was going 15 days. I came back to India. After that, I did the root canal.

So the point is that, you know, he’s an elderly devotee, and he actually started sleeping sleeping 8 hours. And his health insurance health cost became so much lesser. And he said, now I have so much less anxiety. Because he doesn’t have a treasure house of money. He just served Prabhupada throughout his life.

So now that whole financial anxiety has gone off, he’s sleeping more, he’s healthier, and he’s able to serve with less anxiety. So is it that he was more advanced throughout his life and he’s become less advanced now? That he’s sleeping more? No. We can’t have this kind of simplistic analysis.

So we have we have to be understanding. And are we compromising on your understanding? Maybe. That’s why we need to talk with some good friends. Talk with like minded guides.

Okay. Yes, Maybe one of the last questions. Prabhu, you introduced that, Tarangarangini and, Utsahamayi. Just a a little few words. And there it was there that, We’ll talk can we talk about that tomorrow?

Oh. That’s just a untimely subject. Yes, sir. Hi, Krishna, bro. I have 2 questions.

Like, in the morning class, you explained about a father, so absorbed in watching TV and forgetting his, to bring his child from school. So similarly in our daily lives, we also encounter some, instances like that. So we forget other activities. So how to deal with that? Or how to remind ourselves that we have other works too too?

You’re talking about because of bhakti or because of anything? Like, because of because of mostly material things. Like Okay. Because we become absorbed in some things. Yes.

Yeah. It’s a sometimes we have to create reminders. Like, you know, we can use digital things to create reminders. We have to use other people to give us reminders. Sometimes our mind just gets caught.

Like I said, we have to work with the mind we have. So if you know that, I tend to get lost in these things. Say, like somebody had the tendency, you know, if they have a whole weekend free, then we just spend the whole weekend on social media. Like, you know, I think 5 minutes and 5 minutes become 5 hours and 5 hours becomes 25 hours and the whole weekend is gone completely. So then if we have that tendency of getting carried away, then create obligatory engagements periodically.

So instead of having, okay, full weekend I’ll just read Shastra, we will end up full weekend not reading anything at all. So maybe, you know, have a have a meeting with someone, plan something, get together with someone. So have some mandatory engagements interspersed. So what happens is that that often our mind needs some structure. If there is no structure then there is more rupture.

So rupture means the mind just ruptures the entire plan and framework. That’s why now we create a structure for ourselves. Now different people may need different degrees of structure. Some people like that morning to night, my every hour, every minute is planned. And then they feel okay.

I did this, this, this, this. Some people may feel, you know, I feel suffocated. I don’t have any space for spontaneity, creativity, for taking a breath. So how much structure we need, each one of us has to decide. But we all need some structure.

Otherwise, the mind can take us, sweep us away completely and a lot of rupture. Okay? And, the second question is like that. You drew the graph of, like cravings versus time. So in here there you, drew multiple peaks at after certain intervals of time.

So what if the, the frequency of the frequency of the peaks occurring become very high and therefore we get very less persisting time. So Yeah. That’s a individual situation. We all have to deal with that. It depends on the conditionings also.

So there is always some space in between. I was in Columbus, Ohio. Ohio is a place where there are a lot of drugs now coming in. So there’s 1 Indian boy, very intelligent from IIT only, IIT Mumbai. He went to America, and he had a very promising career.

He had a full scholarship, which is quite rare. And he was caught in a car crash, unfortunately. And very bad car crash, then he was hospitalized. And what happens is that in America, there is there is there are books like written in the Empire of Pain, where basically they have designed the pain medications to be addictive. So he had multiple surgeries.

He needed pain medication. He told me that I went into the hospital with a fractured body, and I came out of the hospital with an addicted mind. He just got addicted to the pain medication. He says, I just can’t do anything. I can’t function happily into rehabilitation centers and out.

It’s horrible. So not everybody who becomes addicted to drugs is they deliberately wanted to enjoy and they foolishly got into drugs. Sometimes it’s just that prescription drugs become addictive. It’s a horrible world sometimes. So anyway, so he so then I told him, imagine if you didn’t have this addiction, what would you do?

So he said that, you know, I always had an interest in chemistry. I would like to wear a change in the course, and I will do research to develop non addictive pain medications more, so then you can replace it. I said, that’s a noble aspiration. You know, you are you have gone through pain, but you have found a purpose through that pain. I said, how far have you come in that direction?

He says, I have not taken the admission. I can’t even function. He said, just now that I have come to this temple, this is my few sober hours. After that I lose lucidity. So I told him, see, nowadays with Internet and, online education, you don’t need a degree right now.

No. You can start studying right now. Start doing something meaningful in the time that you have. And even if it’s 15 minutes of lucidity, you do something valuable in that time. And the more we are able to do something meaningful with whatever little time we have, the more we start getting the inspiration to fight against our anartas also.

So whatever time we have, we start with that. This was about 3 years ago, then recently I had gone and met him. He came to meet me and he said that now he’s already without being admitted in the university, he has published 2, 3 papers based on his based on his graduation degree itself and his papers in good journals, and he said, now I’m exploring. So he’s still coming out of that addiction. He says, sometimes I have to at least he had that much sobriety that when the urge becomes strong, he says, I have to admit myself to a rehabilitation center.

He goes there, stays for a month, then comes out, and he’s working. So we have to work with whatever space we have. And gradually, if you’re doing something meaningful over there, the the frequency will decrease, and even the intensity will also decrease with time. Okay? Last question.

Thank you. Hi, Vishnu. In the morning class, bro, you told that in order to internalizing, we should contemplate and speak, write something in our own words. And but we have contaminated intelligence and, when we try to speak or write something in our own words, so it impacts us. So my question is that in order to write or speak something, what should be our boundaries on or how should we do that?

Yes, we have contaminated intelligence, but then, you know, Krishna knows where we are at. Krishna is not a sadistic God. Krishna Krishna doesn’t say, no. You have to understand me. You can understand only with pure intelligence, and you can never have pure intelligence because you are conditioned.

So it’s not like that, you know. Krishna is not going to make demands from us that are intrinsically impossible for us. The qualification for understanding scripture is to have pure intelligence, and the only way to get pure intelligence is by studying scripture. That is basically that Krishna has trapped us in a condition from which you can never come out. Isn’t it?

It’s not like that. So whatever intelligence we have, we use it. So the step the idea of boundaries is important, but just because our intelligence is impure, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t use it. And like Tukaram Maharaj’s saint in Maharashtra, he says that, you know, there are great birds. There are some birds you can fly.

Krishna’s career also use the same example. There are some birds you can fly very high in the sky. You know, I can’t fly that high, but I’ll fly according to my capacity. Just because I can’t fly high, doesn’t mean I I have no right to fly. So why apply that only to intelligence then?

Why not apply to kirtans? When we are singing, is our voice pure? Is our heart pure when we are singing? So till our heart is purified, we should not sing kirtans. Why put intelligence in us artificially it’s almost like apartheid against intelligence.

You know apartheid? There is racial segregation there in South Africa. So everything can be contaminated. Our heart is not pure when we are cooking. When we are cooking for Krishna, we are thinking, I also want to eat this.

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So we are continuing our discussion on the bhakti journey. Yesterday, what was the topic that we mainly discussed? Sorry. One person? Anyone?

Yeah. Yeah. It’s bhajana kriya. So if you consider the stages, what are the stages we have discussed till now? 1st was Shaddha.

Shaddha is curiosity. Maybe there’s something of value over here. We start with that. And after that, sadhusanga. So we discussed how sadhusanga basically helps us to come to from the stage of curiosity to the stage of commitment.

So bhajana kriya is commitment where we start practicing the process. Now after this, the next stage is very long or at least it can feel very long. So within this, we are discussing various stages. So now the multiple stages that are there, it is not that they are linear. It is not that this stage comes after that stage after that stage.

They are struggles inside us, and we face them at different levels. So we are classifying them in a particular way, but that doesn’t mean somebody may not face the sec first one, second one, when when which will come, that may vary. So we discussed one stage yesterday in that, which was the one? Vishaya, Sangara. So Vishaya is sense objects.

Sangara is fighting against them, sangram. And we discussed the principle of how do we deal with it? Yes. We said boundaries. So the the sense objects are out there, and to if you’re fighting with them, we need some boundaries.

And we discussed four principles. What are cast? Category, stability, space, time. Yes. Excellent.

So now we will discuss the inner aspects of this battle. Like, there’s an enemy out there, and we have a boundary. But now there’s an enemy in here also. There could be inside the country. There could be criminals.

There could also be cross border terrorism, and we keep some terrorists outside the country, but there is some have already come inside. So we will now talk about the inner challenges. Now we could say all of this at one level is inner challenge only, but the inner challenge can be aggravated or compounded by external challenges or external temptations. So, like, if a country has an internal rebellion at the same time, there’s an external aggression, then it’ll be far more difficult to deal with that. So we’ll discuss 2 aspects over here.

1 is viewed Vikalpa. Now viewed Vikalpa, it can mean many things, but Vikalpa is alternative. So looking for alternatives. And the other is niyama akshama. Niyama akshama.

Kkshama is kshamata. So niyama akshama is the inability to follow rules. So now these terms can be understood in different ways. I am I’ll focus on understanding them in one particular framework. So remember when we talked about decision making, we said that there are 2 aspects inside us which contribute to the decision making.

What is that? Yes. Reason and emotion, and they are associated with buddhi and mana, intelligence and mind. So we can say that this view looking for alternatives, this arises when the buddhi, it lacks conviction. So we are not yet convinced that this is the thing to do.

Say, at this point, we are looking for some ways to get out because maybe this demand is too much. Maybe it’s not necessary. If somebody has diabetes and doctor says no sugar. So can I take 1 spoon sugar? What is the big deal if I take 1 spoon?

If I take 1 sweet per week, what is the big deal? So at this point, the person is not intellectually convinced. And now at the level of mana, we are looking for over here. So we are looking for alternatives because we think, yeah, maybe I can do this also and do this also. But when it’s at the level of mana, that is okay.

I I have to give up sugar because it’s very damaging for my diabetes, but I can’t do it. So in one sense, here there is, is there a need? We are not yet even convinced. Maybe is this so absolutely necessary? Maybe we shouldn’t be fanatical.

You know, we have to be balanced, isn’t it? And, yes, we need to be balanced, but we have to have a balanced understanding of what balanced means. Sometimes being balanced can become a justification for not following standards. So, is there a need now when we talk about that is niyama. Means that it’s inability that how can I do it?

I can’t. You hear the question is how can I do it? It is not so much in terms of wanting to know a process as feeling that I can’t do it. So here, it is a person who lacks hope, lacks confidence. Here, confidence means you’re talking about personal ability.

I can’t do it. So I hope the difference between these two is clear at this point. That one is maybe there is, maybe it’s not too important. Maybe it’s too big a issue made out of this. The other is, okay, it is a big issue.

I understand it. But it’s it just seems beyond me. So like an alcoholic may think, you know, see in the general western culture, drinking is a very common part of life. In fact, there was a British thinker who said, the taste of wine is the proof that God loves us. So his idea was that if God didn’t exist, how could something as tasty as wine exist?

So wine is the proof of God and not just God, a loving merciful God. So now is wine an intoxicant? Of course. But the prevailing philosophy over there is drink, but don’t get drunk. That’s like saying, okay, you can go on top of a big mountain cliff, peer down, look bend down as much as you want to look down, but don’t fall down.

Well, why take the risk? Isn’t it? So like that, drink but not get drunk. They now are there people who can follow that? Yeah.

There are many people who follow that, you know, isn’t it? But there is a unnecessary danger over there. So now now while many people might be able to do it, but somebody who has been an alcoholic and they’re trying to recover for it, whenever they drink, they get drunk. And drunk basically means that you just completely lose your intelligence, lose your common sense, and then you do undignified, foolish, terrible things. So that’s getting drunk.

That’s the terminology of drink but don’t get drunk. But somebody who has a history of getting drunk, for them to even drink once, what happens is for some people, like, this will come we’ll come to this particular point when you come to the Yamaksha also again. See, for some people, it may, like, be like the slope may be very gentle. Here it is drink and here is get drunk. That means it is a slope, but it is not a very sharp slope.

So some people, they may do something, that, okay, you, you know, watch TV for 15 minutes and stop after that. But okay. You can now if somebody is slipping down, this is a gentle slope. They can stop at any time, generally speaking. But on the other hand, if somebody is so this is the, you could say, the inner landscape.

And I’ll ex explain later how the inner landscape gets shaped like this. So for such a person, you know, one day, if somebody eats a little bit more sweets or little bit or little overeats, that’s okay. It’s not a big deal most of the time. But suppose somebody has been a foodaholic, Somebody has been just, like, bingeing on food till the point that they have to it can become pathologically harmful. There’s in Australia.

I was I was giving a class. There one doctor came to me, and he said that once he was called to the emergency. Said, what happened? There was a young man, he had eaten so much chicken that there there is a kids people sometimes kids are foolish. They have all kinds of foolish competitions.

You know, who can eat the cake fastest? Who can eat more burgers or whatever? So they had a chicken eating competition. And he had eaten so many chicken that actually his throat had become literally clogged. And he said I had to go there, open his mouth and put a prong inside and take chicken out from there.

Horrible. But so there are people, if somebody has eaten like that, they may have to be very, very careful about eating. So for some people, the inner landscape may be gentle. For some other people, that inner landscape may be like a steep fall. So from here, if somebody is over here, if they go down the slope, then soup, they will just go down.

So for us, the for different people, the inner landscape may be different. And say some people say they have a habit of oversleeping. Okay. Now I’m feeling a little tired. Let me sleep 10 minutes more.

And they’ll sleep for 10 minutes and they will pick up after 10 minutes. But somebody said 10 minutes becomes 1 hour, it becomes 2 hours, it becomes 3 hours. And if we know that, then maybe 10 minutes, no more 10 minutes. So each one of us has a different kind of inner landscape. And you could also put it, this difference in the inner landscape can be different, not just for different people, it can be different with respect to different temptations.

Somebody may have no temptation for watching TV, but somebody may have a lot of temptation for gossiping. And you start gossiping, start doing and 5 minutes becomes 5 hours, and you don’t even realize it. So each this inner landscape will be different for different people with respect to different particular temptations. Now it may also be different with respect to different situations. Some people have an innate sense of responsibility that, you know, that, okay, I will talk with you, but I have to go for the I have this job, I have this service, I have to go there.

And they’ll do that. So so but for some people, you know, once they get into something, they forget all responsibilities. Like, sometimes people start watching TV and they get so caught in watching TV or surfing social media that they forget I have to go and pick up my child from school. You know, the child is more sitting at school waiting and then the parents feel so embarrassed. What happened?

They can’t say I was watching TV. But so sometimes people have no sense of responsibility or they have a very low sense of responsibility. So now some situations, we may take them as optional. You know, if our family tells us buy something from office buy something on your way back from office, we may forget it. But if the boss tells complete this by time and time.

Now you cannot just forget what the boss says. Otherwise, the boss will forget you only. There is no fire you and forget you. That will not work. So basically, the point is according to situations also this inner landscape may be different for different people.

So a thing over here is that some people may there in so if we consider this as a steep slope. So from this perspective, if you consider this as a picture of final landscape. Now here, for this person, if the if the mistake that while their inner landscape is steep, they think it to be gentle. If they mistake like that, they may think, okay, one slip down, one little relaxing of the rule. What is the big deal?

So here, they may look for vikalpa, vyudha vikalpa. Right? Okay. It’s not such a big deal if you don’t follow. It’s that because they don’t think it is so serious.

Now that is where we come into justification, rationalization, and I’ll talk about this a little later More. But I’m talking familiar with the difference between the two. But suppose somebody has slipped, and they have come to this point. Now from there, to stop themselves may be impossible. No.

Gravity just takes over at that time. So after this, if somebody is always already slipping down a steep slope, then to stop, it may be akshama. I cannot do it. So it is it is just total helplessness, hopelessness. We’ll talk about the difference between the two also.

But that point, it is just one is unable to do it. So for first, we need to strengthen our intelligence. 2nd is we need to strengthen our mind. We need to purify our mind. So today I’ll try to keep a little more time for questions also.

Yesterday we didn’t have time for questions. If not today morning, we will have, today evening, a longer session for questions. Now in general, if we consider in terms of 4 quadrants, that we have our mind and we have our intelligence. Now I could use the word strong or healthy. I’m using healthy means the mind understands what is good, and similarly the intelligence can be strong or healthy.

Now if you consider based on this, there are 4 possibilities. There is a weak mind and weak intelligence. So this person is more or less powerless. They don’t have much intelligence to make plans or schemes or plots, but their mind is also weak. That means they don’t have any strong desires within them.

So such people will mostly be, like, depressed. They don’t do anything. They will be in in Tamaguna, Tamasik. Not everybody in this Tamasik. Some people, you know, for them to just get out of bed itself is a big tapasya.

I just don’t feel like doing anything. Such people are not likely to do much harm to others. So many times, sometimes governments prefer their population to be docile like that. So if the government provides lots of entertainment, lots of sports, lots of porn, then people just keep enjoying those things, and they don’t even see what the government is doing. So so now this could be a manipulative tool.

But the point is the mind is weak, the intelligence is weak, the person can’t do much. Now when I’m using the word weak over here, I’m using it in a sense that there are there are very little desires. I’m not talking about whether desires are good or bad. I’m just talking here about desires per se. So right now, let’s remove the healthy part from it.

So now if a person has a strong mind and a weak intelligence. Now what do I mean here? Mind means desires, and intelligence is also convictions. So if there are strong desires and weak convictions, then what is going to happen is that person is going to be is going to be you could pay that person is going to run here and there. They’re made to run here and there by their desires.

Eat this, watch this, buy this, and some people might get into a huge amount of debt because of that. I was in Canada, one devotee told me that he is in inheritance law. So inheritance law generally in India, inheritance law means he’s attorney. So is it like, if there are if there is a patriarch in the family and the parents have a lot of wealth and then the kids, they fight among themselves. Who will get the wealth?

Maybe the will is not very clear, then there can be a problem. Wherever there is a will, what happens? There are many willing relatives. They come to fight with each other. So so I thought that’s what inheritance law means.

He said, yes, that is there. But in America, that is not a big issue so much. He said, what happens? Parents want to give the money to their children. But if the children have not learned discipline, then if after the parents die, all the property comes in the name of the children, and then the children can squander all the money.

And nowadays, you see, people don’t even need much effort to spend money. Isn’t it? So somebody can go through a $1,000,000 within a month. They can just go to expensive places, buy this, buy that, can buy all kind of crap. But so the parents, they want to give the money to the children, but they say per year, they’ll get only this much money.

It’ll more than enough for the maintenance and some enjoyment, but they don’t want the children to squander all the money. And then what happens? The children after the parents pass away, the children file a case in the court, and they say that my parents were not mentally stable when they wrote this will. So break this will, and I want the money right away. So this devotee in inheritance law, he said, my key specialty is writing bills that cannot be broken using argument like mental instability.

So so that is itself a specialization. So now the point is that if a person’s mind is very strong and the intelligence is not strong, then it can be a very troublesome thing. The person will just spend without thinking. The person will enjoy without thinking. Now there can be different kinds of enjoyment also.

Like somebody may want to enjoy good food, but they may say, okay, this is not very healthy. This is tasty and healthy. The person can now so that’s the person will just be controlled here and there. Now the intelligence is strong, the mind is not strong. That’s the third situation.

So now relatively speaking, such a person can be peaceful. At least the mind is not making the person run here and there. And the person can be peaceful and focused. Okay. Or let’s focus, let’s use the word steady.

Okay. I know this is the right thing, and I will do this. So the desires are not very strong in such a person. Now if the person’s mind is strong and the desires are also strong, then such a person can actually be powerful. What do you mean by powerful over here?

See, I started by saying that mind is not always an enemy. The mind can have desires or it it’s natural for the mind to have desires. And some desires can be positive, some desires can be negative. You remember we talked about and vasana? So there’s a difference, and we’ll explore that difference a bit more.

But the point is that, say, somebody is very intelligent, and they say, they also have strong desire. You know, India has deserts. India has places where there floods. So can we create a link by which the water from the flooded area will go to the deserted area? Now the Indus Valley civilization in India Indian history, as far as our history goes, is unique.

It had a very good irrigation system, very good urban infrastructure was there. Parallel level of infrastructure is not seen in even the Greek civilization or any other civilization at that time. So the point is they were intelligent people. So somebody is intelligent, their intelligence is strong and their mind is strong. They have a they have understanding, they can do planning, and they can have desires.

Then they can do some good. Now they’re powerful. They can be powerful in a constructive way. They can be powerful in a destructive way also. Hitler had a strong desire.

I want Germany to rule the world. And his intelligence, it was dispirited, but he reinterpreted the whole Aryan theory to say that we are the original Aryans, and we are we populated the whole world, actually, and, therefore, we are meant to rule the whole world. He came up with the ideology, and he he was a good orator. He poisoned the entire German state. So somebody who has a strong mind and strong intelligence, depending on how they use it, It can be constructive, it can be destructive, but such people are powerful people.

So we would like the mind and intelligence both to be strong, but the mind to be filled with healthy desires. So here now I’m trying to differentiate between strong is not the same as healthy. When you say at a physical level, strong and healthy are the same thing. Somebody is strong, they must be healthy. But at the level of mind, somebody may have strong desires, but their desires may not be healthy desires, isn’t it?

Like somebody, if you consider jihadis, they have strong desires and even have strong convictions. They really believe that the world of Jannath or wherever, nobody has seen that. But their strong belief that, oh, if I go there, there are 73 virgins waiting for me. There’s not even a 1 virgin waiting for me over here. So let me go there.

So there’s strong desires and strong convictions. But the desires themselves may be destructive, may be harmful. That’s why strong and healthy is not the same thing. Same way you can have strong convictions. But just because the strong convictions are there, they need not be healthy convictions.

So the Marxists actually believed that, you know, if we just take all the wealth from the wealthy people and distribute among the poor people, then everybody can be happy. A strong belief. But the assumption over there was that wealthy people will have become wealthy by exploiting and abusing others. But that is a possibility. But it’s also possible that wealthy people have become wealthy because they are competent, because they’re hardworking, because they are intelligent.

And if you just and poor people may be poor because they’re exploited and abused, but poor people may be poor because they are lazy, because they’re incompetent, because they are they are having bad habits. Both are possibilities. But if you simply take wealth from the wealthy and give it to poor, it’s not that everybody will become wealthy, that everybody will end up becoming poor because society will have no wealth creators. It’s like they tried it in school also that after exam, they said we have no discrimination. So everybody will get the same marks.

And they said consider the marks of the highest student, consider the mark of the lowest student, do an average, give the average marks to everyone. If you do that, what happens? Those who are intelligent, those who can get top marks, they lose the impetus. Why should we study? We’re not going to get any recognition.

And those who are poor, they say even if we don’t study, we’re gonna get better marks than what we deserve. Isn’t it? So it just spectacularly backfired. So my point is somebody can have strong convictions, but their convictions may not be right convictions. So here we’re talking about the mind and intelligence.

Krishna says that lust is situated not just in the senses, but also in in the mind and the intelligence. So here, so ideally speaking, we could say that if you consider Prabhupada. Prabhupada had a strong conviction that Mahaprabhu’s mercy is meant for the world, but then he had also strong desire that Bhakti Santhakur had wanted many of his disciples. It was like a standing instruction to all his disciples that you, help me in the mission to the west. But Prabhupada had the strongest desire, and that’s why he created ways and means by which he could go abroad.

The Gaudiya Mathur didn’t support him in any way. In fact, some of them some people even tried to sabotage his mission, but still he went. So the desire it’s important thing, desire itself is not a bad thing. Desire directed to a worthy cause can be a very good thing. So we we these two particular things I’m talking about, and we’re trying to give a background to understand how they are relevant for us.

Okay. So now so if we want to do something, say, if we want to discipline ourselves in some way, okay, I want to regulate how much I sleep, how much I spend on social media time, how much I eat, how much time I spend gossiping. There are typical things we may say, how much we’ve spent in sensual indulgence, whatever it is. So if you wanna discipline ourselves, so for that, we need both. We need conviction.

Conviction will be our intelligence needs to be first of all convinced. This is important. This is necessary. And then our mind needs purification. So purification means, the impure desires are not dominating our mind.

So purification can be used in a spiritual sense, but it can be used in a functional sense. Purification, like pure water is water that is meant that will do what water is meant to do. Water is meant to quench thirst. But if water gives me disease, then that is not pure water. So we could say pure means okay.

Many ways of understanding pure, that means it does what it is meant to do. So for example, if a student comes for studying, so a student comes to IIT, and IIT a good college, and now there were very bright future awaits them in the future. But first of all, conviction has to be there that, you know, this this is a this is a promising option that is open for me. And then after that, you could say purification in a student. But let’s not bring in a spiritual context, would be that if I come to college, my primary purpose is studying.

Yeah. Other kids may just spend time having fun, dating and partying and boozing, but that’s not what I have come here for. So so pure so at that time, a pure desire would mean that if I have come for studying, study. Somebody come somebody becomes a sports player. Then now along with sports, you can get fame, you can get distracted by so many things.

But, okay, I’ve come here to study. That’s what I’m going I come here to play, I’m gonna work out, I’m gonna training, I’m gonna practice, that’s what I’m going to do primarily. So basically, when we are using the word purification means our desires are aligned. So when conviction is the purpose is worthwhile, this is a worthwhile purpose. This is an important purpose.

And then purpose means this is what I have come to do, and purification means our desires are aligned with our purpose. So let’s try to look at these two things now. When our intelligence is not convinced, Then if the intelligence is unconvinced, then what we do what do we do? We try to look for alternatives. We may try to look for shortcuts.

We may try to look for escape ways. How can I pretend to do this without doing this? It’s like sometimes we have devotee parents and say, if they have kids who have grown up with their parents being devotees, so the parents want them to come to a temple, but they don’t want to come to the temple. So they come to the temple, but, you know, in the temple, they may not talk with any devotees. They may just spend all the time on their phone.

Or they may have some other friend also who is not interested in the temple, and they will talk about movies, and they’ll talk about sports, and they’ll talk about girlfriend and boyfriend, nothing else. So they come into the temple, but they’re not convinced about the value of coming to the temple. So in the temple, they are looking for alternatives to Krishna, isn’t it? So when there is vyudha vikalpa, it’s like we may externally be in Krishna consciousness, but we are looking for alternatives to Krishna to focus our mind. So if this is happening, then this is where the conviction of the intelligence comes through primarily hearing.

But it is not just hearing. After that, the then after that, there is contemplating. There is. Each one of us needs to contemplate. So without that contemplation, okay, this sound nice, but it’s not applicable for me.

It’s not relevant for me. So we need to contemplate. After contemplating, there is assimilating or we could say realizing. Now realizing is a big step, but it may take time to realize. But at least we assimilate in the sense that we are there is accepting.

I there is we get we find it convincing for ourselves. Yes. This is something which I accept. So, for example, the Bhagavata says, So now we may hear that, we may quote that words also. But we may secretly disbelieve it.

You know, yeah, you know, maybe it’s a little extreme. There is enjoyment and sense pleasure also. Where is the dukkha? I don’t see why dukkha over here. Well, yes.

Is there enjoyment? Of course. Krishna also says there’s enjoyment over there. Is there. But the problem is it is it is just a drop.

It ends. And after it ends, then there is so much dissatisfaction, frustration. So we need conviction. So I’ll talk about some ways in which we can get the conviction. So quite often, if we consider that there are the sense there are the senses and there are the sense objects.

And generally, if the senses come in contact, so there’s a desire for the sense objects, and the desire leads to contact. Then through this, there is pleasure. So if you eat some delicious food, there’s pleasure. If you see something beautiful, there is pleasure. If you hear something nice, musical, melodious, there’s pleasure.

Now for most people, when the pleasure is less or it is nil, That the diagnosis that they do. Why? They think it is because the sense objects are not available or they are not good enough. That means that, oh, you know, I am not enjoying the food because in our hostel the cook is not good. And or the menu is not according to my liking.

And there is some truth to this. You can always improve the quality of the sense objects and you can get some pleasure. But there is a limitation to this. I was in America. You know, many times kids, they put all kinds of weird quotes on their t shirt, and sometimes they’re not even aware of it.

So they were just scared. He had a quote that 90% of the world’s women are beautiful. The remaining 10% are in my college. Now it’s like a slap in the face of all the girls in that college. But along with that, see, this is an illusion.

Why it’s an illusion? How do you know how 90% of the world’s women look like? And what do you see on TV? What do you see on ads? What do you see in mainstream media or social media?

And there, most of the images are doctored. You know, first there is physical makeup and then there’s digital makeup. So first the photos are in the best shape and then there is photo shopping of the photos. So what happens is people start thinking that actually everyone looks far more attractive than the people I see around me. And then they think, okay, I’m not enjoying because the sense objects are not good enough.

But the problem is while this is a reason, another bigger reason is our senses themselves are limited. Even if somebody owned a 5 star hotel where they could eat as much as they wanted, The belly’s capacity is limited. Isn’t it? So there is this senses being limited is a far bigger factor in frustrating our capacity to enjoy. Whichever sense pleasure we take up, it is there is always a limitation over there.

So our mind always gets excited whenever some tempting sense object comes up. Okay. No. If only I could get that, I’d enjoy so much. And it is true.

There is some enjoyment. Says that there is a drop of nectar, but So the idea here is that our pursuit of happiness through sense pleasure is a intrinsically doomed pursuit. It is not extrinsically doomed. Extrinsically doomed is that I don’t have the good enough sense objects. That’s why I can’t enjoy.

But intrinsically doomed means even if I get the best sense objects, still I cannot increase the capacity of my senses. No matter what I do, they are going to be limited, and that cannot be increased. So the pursuit of sense pleasure. Now I’m not going here into a elaborate analysis of sense pleasure. I’m just giving some ways in which we can convince ourselves.

So pursuit of sense pleasure, it is doomed. It is not just extrinsically doomed, extrinsic means, oh, outside the sense objects are not available, but it is also intrinsically doomed. So if you understand this, then all the excitement that a person gets. See, a person can be sexually agitated 24 hours a day. But if a person even gets the most attractive object to enjoy with, The body’s capacity to enjoy is just for a few minutes and then it’s over.

And even those few minutes keep decreasing as a person keeps getting older. So it’s intrinsically doomed. Now another way to look at this is that whenever there is indulgence, whenever there is indulgence, what happens is we initially feel pleasure, but after some time, all that we feel is relief. Like, alcoholics, when they drink first time, maybe first time now, they have to get used to the taste of alcohol, but after some time they feel high. However, over a period of time, it is not that drinking alcohol makes them go high, rather not drinking alcohol makes them go so low that they have to drink to even feel normal and be functional.

So there’s one devotee who was alcoholic then he started becoming devotee and he’s given up. He says, you know, after some time I drank not because it was so enjoyable, I drank because not drinking was so miserable. Not drinking was so miserable. So what happens over here is that while indulgence does give some pleasure, but what happens after indulgence? The desire becomes stronger.

Many times when we enjoy, we feel relief. So how it is is that, say, okay, come on. Imagine this is a flame. Not a map of some country. But now if we put a large block of wood, large block on the flame, the flame will get extinguished.

Will it? At least the flame will disappear, isn’t it? But the problem is that what if the block of food catches fire, isn’t it? There’s a flame, and I put some heavy object on it, it gets extinguished. But if the object is inflammable, the flame has disappeared, but the flame has not got extinguished.

It has disappeared till that block catches fire, and then the flame will become even bigger, isn’t it? So for us, indulgence when we indulge in some pleasure, we feel okay, you know, I’m that desire has gone away. But the problem is the desire has not gone away. It has just gone down. And afterwards, it will come up stronger, it will come up stronger.

So that’s what happens is, it’s gone down, not away. So it appears as if it has gone away, but it comes back again. And next time when it comes back, see, initially, if you consider even the curve of a desire, initially the desire might just be like a prompt. Come on, let’s watch this, let’s eat this, but after some time it becomes not just a prompt it becomes a push, come on do this, like prompt means somebody is coming from here let’s go for a movie but push means somebody is we are sitting somebody is pushing off our chair come on let’s go and watch a movie And after some time, it actually becomes like a prod. You know what is a prod?

The word prod is used nowadays, prod or a prong. It’s like somebody’s piercing us from within. Somebody say, somebody is not just, come on let’s go for a movie. Somebody has got something like a piercing, come on go. If you don’t go for the movie, I’ll keep I’ll keep piercing you.

So after some time, the desire, it it actually becomes like a torment from inside. That and what we call as enjoyment here, it might be pleasure, but here, it is just a relief from the torment. That’s what it’s not that I’m enjoying when I do this. It is not doing it is so miserable. It’s so unbearable that I that what I call as enjoyment is actually just a relief.

Now this is what happens when somebody gets into, say, drug addiction and they want some they want to say, I’ll give it up. That is what they call as withdrawal pains. Now withdrawal pains now different, people sometimes there are psychological symptoms. The person can’t concentrate, can’t think, but sometimes there are even physiological symptoms where the person starts trembling. Like, this can’t physically function.

And then sometimes they have while giving up a particular drug, there has to be some other medicinal drug has to be given. And carefully, the person has to be brought down. So so if we understand this, that actually, what I’m calling as pleasure, it’s not pleasure. It’s just a relief from a self created torment. Like, say, if there were 2 people, say, if say this is the hostel, this is the college, and there are 2 kids, say, if along the way, there is a bar.

Now the one kid has never drunk and has no interest in drinking for whatever reason. That kid may not even notice the bar after some time. It’s just a part of the landscape. He’ll go ahead. But for the kid who is drunk, then as soon as that sees the bar, the urge comes.

Come on. Let’s go and drink. He said, no. Today, I got a class. He just go drink once.

You know? What is the big deal? Yeah. Nobody will even notice it. Last time you did that, nobody noticed.

You go there, take one drink, and let’s take one more. And then even if that person says no, there is so much, like, psychological tug of war that is there. So much emotional energy is drained in that fighting. So if now why is that torment there? Because that person drank initially.

That person is just not so that’s why I’m saying it’s a self created torment. And drinking is not so much a pleasure as a relief from the self created torment. And the relief is also a temporary relief. It’s like putting a block of wood to extinguish the fire. And then what happens as the fire becomes bigger and bigger, you need bigger and bigger blocks of wood also.

The same quantity doesn’t work after some time. So now we could go into psychology and how the mind that dopamine is a pleasure or pleasure enzyme and then that people get dopamine hits, they want more and more severe dopamine hits. The same pleasure does not the same stimulus does not give pleasure. That’s how the mind gets conditioned also. But the point is, this is another way we can analyze that, you know, this kind of indulgence, it’s a dead end.

I don’t want to go in this direction. So when we may hear many classes, we may read many things, but we have to contemplate and find out what convinces me. Each one of us is different. Each one of us each each of our intelligences is different. So that view that alternatives we are seeking.

So, no, we cannot live on borrowed conviction. Like sometimes some devotees use a very powerful class and sometimes the devotees use, like, an instruction. Don’t do this. And we say, okay, I just out of respect for this person, I won’t do it. So that is more like borrowed conviction.

Like kids, because their parents had told me don’t do this, they won’t do it. But if that is the only reason, it may be very difficult for the kid to continue that throughout the life. The borrowed conviction cannot can take us only so far. It has to become personalized conviction. I we cannot live on borrowed conviction for very long.

So what we hear so if I go back over here, where is it? Yeah. Hearing. From hearing, what we will get see, initially, it’s like borrowed conviction. Somebody else’s conviction, I’m leaving on that.

But here it becomes internalized conviction. Like, borrowed conviction is like, I am borrowing money from someone and I’m spend I’m spending that money. Then I have to constantly depend on that person to give me money. But internalized conviction means I have got my own income sources. And so I can think, I can reflect on my experiences, I can reflect on the point that I have heard.

Then I am convinced of this myself. Now, of course, we may still need to refresh our convictions. Because what happens is even if we have a strong conviction, even if we have a healthy conviction, the world is doing a lot of propaganda, and the world is undermining our convictions. So we need to keep hearing regularly. But hearing, it should not just be borrowed convictions.

Slowly, it has to go inside. There’s one social critic. He said the problem with the world is that the wise are full of doubts and the foolish are full of certainties. They’re full of conviction. I have a maternal uncle who went to America.

He’s among the, like, the first, probably, 1st 100 people from India went to America. In the 19, 19 sixties end, America liberalized its immigration laws, and then Indians started going to America. So he went in the early 19 seventies. So he has such conviction that he has he has arranged for almost, like, 55 of our relatives to come to America. He used various legal loopholes in this.

He started his own company and employed people, and he wanted me also to come to America. He didn’t have a son, so he wanted me to inherit his company. I frustrated him, unfortunately. Unfortunately, whatever it is. But when I talk with him, you know, his conviction that people should come to America, sometimes I feel it’s more than my conviction that people should go back to Godhead.

So the idea is now are things better in America? Yeah. In some ways, they are better. Materally, they are comfortable, but it can be very lonely. At a physical level there’s a lot of comfort, at a psychological level there’s a lot of loneliness, a lot of mental health issues.

It’s a complex thing, but the point is that sometimes people’s convictions about material things may be very strong, and our conviction about spiritual things may not be that strong. So we need to strengthen our convictions. Many times if I feel my determination is not strong, what is not strong? It’s the underlying conviction itself. This is good for me.

This is not just good. This is the best for me, or this is bad for me. This is going to take me to a terrible place. So one way so last point I’ll take how to get convictions is that see the big picture. See the big picture means that somebody may say, okay, you know, I I spend half an hour on social media every day, or I watch TV for half an hour every day.

Half an hour not a big deal. Okay. Half an hour may not seem a big deal. And this I’ll give up whenever I want. Okay.

Okay. Half an hour daily may not seem a big deal, but half an hour per week. So would you like to be spending this half an hour on TV? Or, like, if somebody says half an hour is very modest, some people spend 2, 3, 6 hours. So do you want to be spending this if somebody spends 2 hours on TV every day?

Do you want to be spending this 2 hours on TV after 10 years? Well, no. By that time, I’ll have a career. I’ll have I’ll have responsibility. I don’t want to spend that.

Okay. Do you want to spend it after if you consider 10 years, 100 of hours will have wasted. So much you can do in 100 hours. Okay. What about 5 years?

Maybe. See, when what happens is if I’m here and one step in this direction, one step in this direction, doesn’t seem to be a big difference. But that one step in this direction repeated will take me here, one step in this direction will take me here. So when we see the big picture, then the gravity of the small choice becomes clear to us. Small choices may not always be small choices because each small choice reinforces our tendency to make that same choice again.

Remember in the first section, I talked about the browser. Each time we visit a particular website, that website comes as an auto prompt. So what happens is each choice, it’s not in isolation. Oh, I just made one this choice today. Tomorrow, I will make it.

Each choice, it is it is in connection, not isolation. What it does is it becomes a facilitator for similar future choices. Not just similar, it may become worse future choices. So each small choice matters. And that if we understand this, like, every action that I do, it is an unwitting commitment to doing the same action again and again, maybe for the rest of my life and not just rest of my life.

Krishna says, lifetime after lifetime it will go on. So each choice, the small choice is not a small choice. So these are just some ways I’m giving. The point is we hear many different points in classes, and we have to find those points which convince us. And then maybe put them in our own words.

Maybe write them in our, maybe keep them in physical notepad or notepad on our phone and revisit those points regularly. Otherwise, we will always keep looking for alternatives. As we’re looking for alternatives, then we will never be able to connect with Krishna. Remember you want to make Krishna bigger, the world smaller. But if you are constantly keep looking at the world and think it’s no big deal and the world will never become smaller.

If you’re not consistently focused on looking on Krishna, Krishna will never become bigger. So we need conviction. So for us, strengthening our buddhi is very important. Krishna says that in 343, he gives a very interesting inner hierarchy. He says that there are the sense objects.

Now above the sense this is actually this hierarchy comes in 342. So there are the senses. Above the senses is the mind. Above this is the intelligence. Above this is the soul.

Now in this particular hierarchy it is not mentioned, but above it is the super soul. Above it all is Krishna. So now if we consider this to be the conditioned soul, Now we can say the is in our heart, so inside, but let’s keep this is the conditioned soul. Let’s, for the time being, keep it outside. So the idea is that there is a natural pull of gravity toward the sense objects.

So the gravity of attachments, the gravity of material desires. We all will get pulled toward the sense objects. So now how do we go upwards? So jivaswami says the key is the buddhi. It is the buddhi that should remind me of the soul.

It is the buddhi that should remind me that I am a part of Krishna. It is in Krishna it is in connecting with Krishna that is my greatest interest. So it is our buddhi that will bring the upper upward link. Now once we grow spiritually, once we become purified, then there can be preti, there can be prema. Then we will naturally attracted towards Krishna, but till we get to that point, the buddhi is extremely important.

So strengthening our buddhi says buddhi is what keeps us in bhakti till we develop pure love for Krishna. And that’s why within sadhana bhakti, we offer as vidhi bhakti. Vidhi bhakti is we follow the vidhi of scripture. And that is not just, oh, instruction is given, I have to obey it. See, obedience will take us so far.

After instruction, there has to be internalization of the instruction. And this is good for me. This is in my best interests. We need to be convinced about it. So that that looking for alternatives will stop when the intelligence is convinced.

Now after that also, that doesn’t mean immediately we’ll become free from material enjoyment or material indulgence also. We may still fall. That is because my intelligence is convinced, but still my mind keeps pulling me in opposite direction. So, what can happen, this I’ll discuss in our next session. I wanted to go into this, view of Vikalpa a little bit more because it is an important key step, and it is often overlooked.

See, in one sense, gaining conviction is actually easier or faster than gaining purification. Like, purification means the mind’s desires change. That may take time. Like say somebody has diabetes, that sugar is bad. And the second is I don’t like sugar.

Now for somebody to come to the level of I don’t like sugar, that may take a very long time. But even if I like sugar, it is not good. I like sugar, but I like living more. Isn’t it? I like sugar, but I like health more.

So it is so that gaining in changing our intelligence, in one sense, changing intelligence is easier than changing the mind. So if we can just strengthen our intelligence, although there will be an inner war, but that inner war, we will have the determination to fight that war at least. And we fight that war, we can win it. But if we are not even sure whether we should be fighting this war, then the chance of winning is very, very less. So So at least we need to be convinced that this war is worth fighting.

So Buddhi uses this conviction. So now there could be broadly four possibilities. Say, there is Krishna here and there is Maya in whatever form here. So we have our Mana and our Buddhi. So it is possible that intelligence and mind.

The intelligence is attracted towards Maya, the mind is also attracted towards Maya. So such a person is is a materialist, but is not just a materialist, like a pure devotee of materialism. Yeah. That is like what Krishna says, that It is everybody wants sense pleasure, but such people think that there is nothing else apart from this in life. Sense pleasure is the only purpose of life.

To come. What other purpose can even be there? There can’t there’s no purpose at all. So such people we use generally use the word fanaticism in terms of religion, but such people are fanatical materialists. Just just nothing else at all for them.

Now what may happen? The next stage is the intelligence goes in this direction, but the mind goes in the opposite direction. So here, there is a struggle. Now after this now this is very, very rare, but it is like the intelligence may go towards Maya, but the mind goes towards Krishna. Now this can happen if somebody has had That means somebody say he’s born in a very materialistic family somehow for whatever reason.

But in the spiritual life, they have practiced some sujair. So this is actually very rare. But what can happen is that the best situation is where the intelligence and the mind both go towards Krishna. That means we understand that with the intelligence that Krishna is the most valuable. So with intelligence, we understand Krishna is valuable.

With the mind, we understand Krishna is the most desirable. So Krishna is saying, if we come to this stage, then he says, So this is 8.7. Krishna also talks about the same thing in, is it, I think 12.13. So it’s 12.4 14, something like that. So the idea is that we would like to come to this stage where the intelligence and the mind both are attracted toward Krishna.

But it may take time. So at least our intelligence should be going toward Krishna even if our mind is not going towards Krishna. So that we come to through by going through the stage of. So personally developing our conviction is important. So that contemplating and then internalizing.

Internalizing, one way to do it is speaking and writing. See, because if you are going to give a class on a particular topic, if you are not confident about it, then what is happening is you will not feel very confident speaking about it if people ask questions. You won’t have answers. If you decide I’m going to speak on a particular topic, then we will actually try to strengthen our conviction. And if you’re going to write on it, you may write articles for others but writing for yourself also.

Somehow when we put in our words, so there is an internalization that happens which does not happen if we are not putting things in our own words. Yes, we can memorize scriptural verses, that is wonderful. It’s very purifying and uplifting. But a point we try to articulate it in our own words. Then like our words are a part of our they’re expression of our thoughts.

So when you put something in our words, the connection that is developed, that is very deep. Sometimes you may see in conflict resolution, If one one standard way to do conflict resolution is, if I’m angry with you, then before I make my case, the mediator tell me, you make his case in your words. You know, why does this person not agree with you? What are this person’s concerns? It’s actually very difficult to do it.

And if you genuinely try to put the other person’s case in your words, then our anger toward that person goes down substantially. We may still disagree with them. But, okay, I understand where you are coming from. I understand why you think like this. And then the the discussion becomes much more reasonable.

So putting our words on an idea makes that idea much more relatable, intelligible. It remains less foreign for us. So that, that putting it in our words is a very good way to develop the conviction. So I’ll summarize what we discussed today. We had discussed today primarily the internal obstacle.

The external obstacle with respect to metal indulgence we discussed yesterday. Internal obstacle specifically of of looking for alternatives. So how do we deal with that? 1st, we discussed about the inner landscape. You know how for different people in a landscape might be a gentle slope, for some people it might be very steep slope.

So first, so it’s there could be a misconception that what is steep, I think it to be gentle. Then that’s why we may not take something seriously. So this misconception will lead to us looking for Vikalpa. What is the big deal if I slip down go down a little bit? But then if one is actually slipping, then it may be beyond what’s control.

It may be inability. So we discussed about how this this quadrant of intelligence being weak or of mind being weak or strong and intelligence being weak or strong. So in one sense, this is the best situation, but in this situation a person who is powerful can be constructive or destructive. So we would like to be constructively powerful. So strong desire for Krishna, strong conviction about Krishna.

That is the best situation to be in. So now conviction, how do we develop this? We discussed about how it is something which is to be moved it has to be moved from borrowed. Borrowed means we hear. So hearing is something which is important.

But from hearing, there is contemplating. And we may contemplate and sometimes we contemplate and say, I don’t find this point very convincing. That’s fair enough. It’s that although shastra has many points, not every point will strike us. So contemplating is also a part of selecting.

Yeah. This is a good point. But sometimes, you know, this if I were to share something, I don’t think I can tell this story. I like this story or like this example. This is what I’m going to speak.

So contemplating and then after that comes internalizing. So this internalizing this journey, it can be done by speaking or writing, basically putting in our words. And then I discussed some examples of that conviction, how we can get our conviction. I discussed 3 main points with respect to say, sense gratification. That the first is that the pleasure is not there.

That is not because the sense objects are unavailable or they are not good enough, but it is also because the senses are limited and nothing can be done about it. And second point we discuss is how? That what we call as pleasure is actually just a relief. It’s a relief from a self created torment. It like, the more we indulge, the fire becomes more and more, and it burns us from within.

So what is the the pleasure itself is not very big over there. What a third point we discussed? So so it’s like sometimes you may feel that it’s a small choice. So it’s a small choice is actually not a small choice. Because what is going to happen is that choice is going to create a conditioning.

And that conditioning is going to lead to a repetition of the choice. So therefore, a small choice is not a small choice. So understanding that can we may say, okay, this I don’t want to do this. We see the big picture. So there are various ways, these are just examples of how we may get conviction, but each one of us needs to strengthen our conviction.

And then after that has been done, at least even if our mind is going in one direction, at least our intelligence will be going in the other direction. So we’ll at least be fighting. Be fighting, then after that, we will eventually come to be winning. But if we’re not fighting, there is no chance of winning at all. Thank you very much.

Hare Krishna. So we have time for a few questions. We will just take about this topic today. Yes, please. Where is the mic?

Is the mic there? Maybe you can speak loudly. I’ll repeat the question. Hi, Krishna. So I want to ask this question that, you explained, Niyama Aksham with respect to, vyakta vikalpa in the example that the slope is steep and we miss, we misinterpret as, gentle.

Right? That was for That was not for. No. Yes. Misunderstanding it is.

Yes. Is actually if somebody is just falling down. And they say you somebody will be able to stop. Somebody else might be able to stop, but this person might not be able to stop. So what might be possible for somebody to do, it may not be possible for somebody else to do.

Because then the landscape is different. Yeah. Go ahead. Yes. So, basically, you explained as a in correlation with, Virupikalpa.

And in the last part of your lecture, you explained, the 2 as quite independent. So, that mind mind goes, in other direction and intelligence goes in other direction. So I cannot understand the exact correlation or the Okay. I use the same example to explain the two points, but 2 are different points. Like, I give the diabetes example.

Like, somebody is not even convinced that sugar is the cause of diabetes. You know, diabetes can have so many different causes. There are so many people who don’t take sugar, still they get diabetes. I know this person is eating sugar everyday throughout their life. They not got diabetes.

So, you know, you are actually you are, you know do you hate sugar? That’s why you’re telling me not to eat sugar? So if I’m not convinced, that’s completely one different thing. But somebody says, I’m convinced sugar is bad for me, but the cravings that come, I just can’t bear them. So there are 2 different things.

I use the same example to illustrate a point that, for somebody, the if they think if somebody knows this floor is too steep, they will not even think of going down that floor. But if somebody is actually thinking the floor is not very steep, then what is the harm? So that misconception. So the same example can be used for both, but there are 2 distinct things. Thank you.

Here? There’s a yeah. Okay. Where is the mic? Yeah.

Hi, Krishna. Like, I’m I’ve heard from the class that, you know, when the mind is weak, we have we have low in confidence. And when the intelligence is weak, we have low in conviction. Like, in Malaysia more than confidence, let’s put the word hope. Hope.

Hope is less. Confidence is there, but word confidence has many different connotations. Hope is we just don’t have much hope. Sometimes in our personal case or any devotee case that we find we see that sometimes when we are going in the low sleep that through our intelligence, through Shastra, we can understand that we’re actually going through that path and then we understand the consequences also that what is about to happen that where where the path is leading to. And then but even after realizing that having such thing that it becomes an ability to actually do something about it.

And sometimes even if you We’ll talk about that in the future session. Okay. Because that’s a different topic. So we have to find some source of strength that will keep us going on. So sometimes in that particular area, we may not, we just don’t feel like chanting.

No matter we may understand how important the holy name is. Maybe then we push ourselves, but if we can’t, then we may decide, okay, maybe maybe I’ll read something, maybe I’ll hear some kirtan. See, the mind is like a child. Sometimes the parents have to force the child, but you cannot force the child beyond a particular limit. So we’ll talk about that inner negotiation that we need to do, and we’ll talk about, about niamakshama, and we’ll also be talking about one more that is, Gantarla.

And our motivation goes up and down. But we have to negotiate over there to find out what is the how can I move ahead? Yes, please. Contemplating on right things, why it seems to be artificial and austerity? Means on negative things, it is it seems natural.

Easy. Okay. Why does contemplating on, good things seem artificial austerity? Well, that’s because the conditioning is there. Whatever we have contemplated on in the past is not necessarily right or wrong.

It applies to right or wrong, but doesn’t apply only to that. Say, if you have studied a subject before, then learning more about that subject is relatively easier. You already if suppose yeah. Both if if we have, suppose, both familiarity and interest in a subject, then to study that subject further is easier. But suppose if we don’t have familiarity, we don’t have interest, then taking that subject, Let’s say, it’s it’s going to be very difficult.

So for us, we don’t have to be too hard on ourselves. We may not have contemplated philosophical or spiritual truths previously, and we don’t have that habit. So we building that habit, it does take time. It does take effort. It will happen, but the if we don’t have the habit, it is going to be difficult.

So just accept that. So try to associate, try to make the contemplation easier in some ways. Maybe discuss with some other devotee. Whenever you’re going to read, you know, try to if you find if there’s some other devotee, how do they contemplate? Hey.

I did think about it from this way. So sometimes if you are hearing a class on a particular verse, I find that if you want to develop contemplativeness, sing synergizing our reading and hearing is very helpful. Now we often hear many classes, and it’s good. But if somebody has given systematic classes on one section of scripture, then we read that section and we hear the classes on that section. Then what happens is not only we get better understanding, oh, this verse, it can be thought from this perspective also.

This was this point can be looked at from this perspective also. So Prabhupa says to study scripture scrutinizingly means to study it from different perspectives. So when we see, okay, it can be thought of like this also. It can be thought of like this also. See, contemplating, it’s a habit, but like every other habit, it may need some help in developing it.

Cycling is a habit, but we have to practice cycling. But sometimes we also have to learn, you know, what does it mean to be balanced? You know, I don’t lean this way. I don’t lean to the I don’t paddle too much on one side too with too much force. Things need to be learned.

So there’s practicing, but there’s also learning some things which are which may not just not know. So I think seeing how others contemplate can also be very helpful in developing the habit to contemplate. And as we keep doing it, it will become easier with time. Thank you. Yes, please.

Mic. Yeah. There. Way behind, I think. We’ll take 1 or 2 questions, and then we’ll stop.

Hare Krishna Prabhu. Where is the mic? Okay. Yeah. We have heard that, there are 2 types of conviction, borrowed conviction and personalized conviction.

Also, we have, heard that there are 2 types of, and Shastri. So, does it, does borrowed conviction match exactly to and, personalized conviction match to Shastrikshradha, or they can be a combination? I I think there are 2 different categories itself. There are 2 different ways of looking at things. And as far as what I have seen, I have not seen Prabhupada really make a categorical difference between lokikshasda Shraddha and Shastrikshraddha.

So if you see the Bhagavad Gita itself talks about faith in the 3 modes. 17 chapters and it doesn’t say that faith in Shastric or faith in Tamagunai is Tamasik. Somebody can have faith in Tamasik Shastra. In Shastra also there is Tamasik Shastra. There is Shastra which talk about animal sacrifice and intoxication.

So you can have Shastriya Shranda and there can be Tamasik Shranda also. Isn’t it? So there are many technical classifications in scripture, and we have to see which technical classifications are helpful for us. Otherwise, we can get lost in technicality. So, now if we personally find that categorization, Shastri and lokik, helpful, then that is good.

But, you know, I have interacted with people from different traditions. After I start travelling abroad, I go for interfaith conferences. And sometimes I may I find that, Christian’s faith in God, their conception of God may not be very clear, but a Christian’s faith in God may be much stronger than a devotee’s faith in Krishna. Although the conception may be very clear. Now you may say that, okay, you can say Bible is Shastra, but then you can go into that whole discussion of what exactly Shastra.

But the point is that faith, you cannot just, faith is a very subtle and profound thing. You cannot imprison faith within the parameter of Shastra. That how faith is triggered. In our own scriptures, we have examples of people who had great knowledge of Shastra and had no faith in Shastra. Isn’t it?

We have the Yajik Brahmanas. They could quote scripture, they could go to Yajnas, but they didn’t have much they had knowledge of scripture, but how much faith did they have in scripture? Shukaracharya was a pandit, but he told Balima Raj to not surrender to Vamandhi. So my point is that, you can say that it is Shastri Gyan, it is not Shastri Shanda. Okay, then how do we know?

No. The Shanda is inside me. How will you really know? Is it Lauki or Shastri? Does it just come from Shastri statements alone?

Contemplating the scriptural statements? Now does that mean then that if somebody is reading a translation of Shastra, then the if you’re if you only read translation, you’re not read the original, you don’t know the language, then is your shanda not Shastri? See the idea of Shastra, we should not limit it so much. Shastra is not just a book. Shastra is a message.

And it is not that Krishna spoke once in Shastra. It is not that God speaks one time in history and after that God forever falls silent. God is constantly speaking. God is speaking in our hearts. God is speaking in others hearts.

God may be even speaking through words around us. So the we have the the Advud Brahmana or the Avanti Brahmana who has 24 gurus. No. He’s learning from nature. So, you know, how Krishna can give us faith?

It’s a very complex thing. So let’s not reduce it to Shastra. So somebody can get faith by studying nature. So nature is also another book of God. So one book of God is scripture.

Nature can also be another book. Now that doesn’t mean everybody who studies nature will gain faith. The Darwin studied nature and lost faith. So so that is also possible. Ultimately, each person has to choose what they do.

They have to choose to turn towards Krishna. So it’s important that ultimately, the Shastri and Ishkarsha, that that So we have to study so that we can get to the conclusion of scripture. And how do we get how we get there? That depends. Okay?

Yes. Actually, one part actually. Actually, if our conviction goes like this that, yes, there is a materialist who is working so hard for material goals, so why should we not work a bit harder or a bit more austere for the purpose of satisfying Krishna, pleasing Krishna? So this type of conviction, does it stay long? See, it’s difficult to say which conviction stays long.

Was Dhruva Maharaj’s desire, even his determination. We say his determination was great. Was it material or spiritual? Material. Well, it’s very difficult to say.

The the the the source in the sense that the cause of the determination was material. But then so many people get insulted. How many people still get that? You know, I’m going to do this to get go to the austerities to get evil. So it was it material in terms of the situation, or was it just his own constitution, his own mind body, subtle body?

Then you can say the object was Krishna. So because the object was Krishna, so it is spiritual. Or after he changed, that time it became spiritual. Until then it was material. So and I find that this classification of material spiritual, sometimes it we make it very categorical.

But if it is instead of focusing on material spiritual, we focus on what is favorable to our bhakti and what is unfavorable for our bhakti. So whatever he did, it was favorable for his relationship with Krishna. So I would say that, if somebody is surrounded by people who are materialistic and they seeing how hard they work inspires a person. Then who knows? We have devotees who have created artha forum.

But there are these are all some people have just, like, enormous passion and enormous ability for business. So we have one devotee. He is considered a start up genius. He has only, like, several more than a 100 companies have started and made them big. So he says that you it goes to wealthy people and says that whatever money you want to earn, how much do you think you need for living comfortably?

Somebody will say I want, I want a bank balance of 20 crores. They assume these people are very wealthy. So okay. You aim for a business where you get 40 crores. And if you get anything above 20 crores, you will give 50 percent in charity.

And people feel inspired by that. And there are many business people who have actually succeeded that way. And then they they feel that now I am earning not just for greed or for just my own possessiveness, I’m earning to give in charity. So now now after that say they give charity to build a big temple. So was their ambition material or spiritual?

Doesn’t matter. No. It’s favorable. So such people may say, oh, such people may say, okay. No.

That person that person multiplied their business. I also want to multiply my my business. So they may get inspiration from someone else. They may also get inspiration from somebody who’s given charity. So what gives from where inspiration will come, it’s very difficult to say.

So certainly, we need a devotee association to keep our goal fixed on Krishna. But we all need, energizers, you could say. So if we are not associating with devotees at all and we are constantly looking at materialists, we may get inspiration from materialists to work hard, but after some time that materialism will infect us. I’m working hard for the same purposes that the materialistic people are working for. So there are 2 different things.

There is the there is the the destination, and there is the energy or the fuel or the pace. So the fuel, energy, pace, we can get by looking at people in the world. But the destination, that conviction won’t stay by just by looking at people of the world. For that, we need to associate with devotees. Clear?

Thank you, Prabhu ji. Yes, Prabhu. We’ll just we’ll finish in 2 minutes now. Yeah. Hi, Krishna, Prabhu.

My question is again related to the borrowed convictions. So you had mentioned that, when we actually, hear or study Shastras or hear from, a senior devotee, then it’s not that we purchase all the convictions. A part of it we might purchase. But then, like, as a sadhaka grows in his spiritual life and he also studies scriptures like Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita, and he sees that, he has not applied everything, but at least he started applying few things and it has started working. So, so this is a kind of way by which we develop faith that at least what I was told is actually true.

I’m not at at a stage that I’m able to, get convinced and apply it. That’s fine. So same applies for even that, for, exalted souls like Shlapraupa and spiritual masters. So now I want to ask that you mentioned we have to do contemplative, study and also hearing. So that would change, that would by that process, we will be able to borrow more convictions.

So, it appears that, if there could be some way by which we can increase the percentage of borrowed convictions, that’s a very healthy stage because then every hearing and reading is very, very, productive. So, is contemplation the only way to increase the percentage of convictions, or could you help us by ways by which we can increase the percentage of convictions? Because we have faith that what is being told is true. Okay. So is contemplation the only way?

Not necessarily. See, sometimes we also have to go through certain life experiences ourselves. So, like, the same, book we may read 1 year after bhakti and same book we read 10 years after bhakti, And we’ll see it in a different light because we have gone through different experiences. So at certain stages in our life, certain points may strike us. So I don’t think we can accelerate that process too much.

We sometimes we have to ourselves evolve to a particular level to gain some understandings. So can we increase or can we accelerate? To some extent, we might be able to. So having some forum for reflecting on scripture. Contemplation is one thing.

Maybe just discussing with different devotees, especially if you have some like minded devotees talking with them. Oh, okay. This point, I didn’t think so much about this. That’s also interesting point. I think like minded association can be very helpful because then we start we can relate with that person and then we can relate with their convictions also.

And those convictions can become closer to becoming internalized for us. So say for example, if our focus is youth outreach, somebody’s conviction is centered on book distribution. You can talk with them and we’ll get some inspiration how dedicated they are to book distribution. But we may not feel that conviction coming to us. Book distribution is the best way to serve Krishna spread Krishna’s mission.

We say, okay, that’s one way. It’s important. But maybe that’s not the best way. We may not get that conviction. So I think like minded association and reflecting in like minded association is also very helpful.

Okay. Thank you. Yes, Pravo. You had a point? Hi, Krishna.

Good evening. Sometime it so happens that once the intellect is in control of mind, things go very nicely. No. We are centered. We will come.

We are connected with the divine, connected with the Lord Krishna consciousness. But when mind takes over, in some situation, and then we feel lots of misery and then we regret also, how to make intellect strong enough so that mind doesn’t take over, especially in case of calmer, krodha, lower? Well, we discussed developing convictions, hearing more regularly, speaking, writing. These are ways to develop the intelligence. And sometimes we’ll talk more about the mind also.

Sometimes the mind needs to be accommodated. We are not meant to make our mind our slave or make our mind our friend. There’ll be a separate topic. We’ll discuss in a future in the class today.

Thank you very much.

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And by that, we start moving forward. And the next thing that is agenda. So that is the stage we’ll discuss today. And depending on the availability of time, what are the next thing after that? And after we put this is where we start experiencing some transformation.

So here, it is curiosity. But from curiosity, we come to commitment. So, what is clear is the stage of commitment to. They hear about some treatment and we need some people who had the treatment and they come to the doctor. And then we could, okay, we can try obviously that treatment generally involves any kind of treatment.

It involves 2 broad things. The specifics name maybe, there are there is one prescribed, and then what is prescribed. So prescribed is use, prescribed is. So the idea that somebody has a disease, then the medicine that make you all the disease, we say yes to that. And the things that aggravate the disease, we say no to that.

So that could be there are people say dos and don’ts. That’s involved in anything. So agenda clear also involves this. Now it’s interesting each other don’ts over here already. Like, what is?

Unconveniently also in one sense, the don’t and also in one sense, isn’t it? But there’s a difference. There is you could say a difference between determination and transformation. The donation is like, if you consider this to be a it’s not a downgrade. There’s a particular event.

But you can just check it. So, if we consider the difference between determination. And transformation, so it was a one sense determination. Is to bring about the transformation. Determination is the change is not happen, but I have decided to change.

Transformation is where the change has actually happened. So determination involves the idea that there is opposition, but we are overpowering the opposition. The determination means, okay, I’m determined to wake up in the morning. I don’t feel like waking up, but I’m determined. But say if we do it for 1 month, we do it for 6 months, we regulate our life so that we are sleeping by 10 o’clock, then 4 o’clock, naturally, we start waking up.

Then transformation means that in one sense, there is no need for determination or rather the need for determination becomes substantially lesser. It just become a habit for me. That’s what I do. So so in one sense, determination leads to purification, and purification will bring about the transformation. So we want so here, an bhajana kriya is the determination to practice.

By that, the will happen, and then the transformation is the Nishtha stage where we have seen the transformation and we have ourselves. Yeah. This thing works for me. So now bhajana kriya, what does it involve? In general, see, there are timeless principles.

And then we don’t we never live in a timeless world. We live at particular times. So there are timely applications of those principles. So those timely applications may vary according to time. Say, for example, we should study about Krishna.

We should hear about Krishna. We should associate with devotees. So part of the sadhu sangha, part of associating with devotees is we hear about Krishna and the association of devotees. Now this is a timeless principle. But say when the pandemic happened, that was a particular time.

Now if somebody says, I won’t hear a class on Zoom unless you give me a from Shastra, that hearing from Zoom will also purify you. Now will we get a from Shastra specifically for that? No. Shastra was written at a particular time. Maybe Zoom was not there at that time.

So the Internet was not there, so then that particular application may not be required. And that’s why that may not be in the context. Then like that, if you want to look for a, you can say, where is the that you speak from a loudspeaker? Isn’t it? Use a mic and amplifier.

Where is that? Swami had no sound system. So the application will vary. So there are timeless principles, and there are timely applications. So for example, Rupa Goswami may say as a part of bhajanakriya, he said we should live in Vrindavan.

Live in Vrindavan. Now at that time, the Goswamis themselves, they changed their life so that they could go and live in Vrindavan. Now is that possible necessary for for everyone? Not necessarily possible. But Prabhupad himself was in Vrindavan, but Prabhupad left Vrindavan.

So the idea is Vrindavan is both a geographical place, but Vrindavan is also a place that has a particular consciousness. And we try as much to create a similar consciousness. So we have a temple. We come to a temple regularly. Then we try to make our home or the place where we stay into a temple.

So that way, we try to apply that. So we try to live in. So the application will vary. If we start taking the literal application at all times everywhere, then most of scripture will become inapplicable. Isn’t it?

So, therefore, there are timeless principles, and there are timely applications of those principles. So there there are 2 opposite kind of statements of Srila Prabhupada. So Prabhupada often is known to say that I’m like a postman. I simply give the message. I didn’t change anything at all.

You heard the statement? So many times Prabhupad says this. Now there is an nectar of devotion, Bhakti Samad. Prabhupad gave a series of lectures in on that. And and there there is a verse.

Somehow or the other, fix the mind on Krishna. And while explaining this verse, Prabhupada says, I have practically invented the entire Krishna consciousness movement. Now now invented what does it mean? Prabhupada specifically uses the word invented. Invent discovery at least when that was there, I discovered.

Invented means I came up with it. So now how do we put these two principles together? Said, I didn’t change anything, and I have practically invented the Krishna conscious in this moment. So what is implying over there? He says that it is not enough for the spiritual master to simply give an instruction to the disciple.

Somehow or rather fix the mind on Krishna. He says it is the spiritual master’s responsibility to come up with ways and means by which the disciple can fix the mind on Krishna. And he’s saying that is what I have come up with. So, for example, going out on the streets and doing distribution of books. Now this was not done so much in the past.

Yes. The principle was that the those who are saintly, those who are spiritually minded, they should associate with materially minded people in some way and give them some spirituality. In the past, it was Bhiksha. They people would go and ask for Bhiksha. And those people, now they might just be thought to beggars.

That’s the English word was mendicants, and Bhiksha is not actually begging. Bhiksha is, like, a spiritual person who when they ask for some help, is actually the giver is helping themselves by giving that help. So it’s a very different dynamic. But that understanding was not there so much in the western culture. Now Christianity, for various reasons, didn’t have a very prominent monastic tradition.

Although Catholics have monks, but the monks were always very few. And there were desert fathers long, long ago in the 3rd, 4th century. But apart from that, there are not that many Christian priests. So the idea of going out and asking for alms was not then the Christian tradition. The Islamic tradition doesn’t have monks at all.

So that’s why this is unfamiliar. Judaism also doesn’t have monks so much. Although all traditions talk about regulating the sexual energy, but the specific monkhood was not there so much. So it is utterly unfamiliar. So Prabhupada said that if you go and distribute books so that’s the way how to fix the mind in Krishna.

Now started the. The is the time download festival, but to do it in the streets of the western world. And, see, for many of the western people, the the counter cultural aspects of Krishna consciousness was was was what attracted them. See, culture means that is the way people we do things. See, culture and tradition has similarity and difference in it.

Culture is this is what we do. Tradition is this is what we have done. So culture is more associated with the present. Tradition is more associated with the past. And both can be, sources of guidance or guidelines for how we behave.

Now you can say culture keeps changing. In India, there is India’s traditional culture. There is Bollywood culture, which has become a tradition of its own. Although that is a deviation from tradition many ways. Then there is western culture, which is its own way of doing things.

Cultures can change, and cultures can conflict with each other also. But there is counterculture. Counterculture is you do the opposite of what people in general are doing. And so the the the people who are following, they’re a part of the counterculture. And the counterculture was a huge moment.

And there are many intelligent people also, thoughtful people who are spiritual seekers in counterculture. Now among them, the most visible people were the hippies. The hippies were not very large in number, but they were very visible. So, anyway, the point that happened was the counterculture people like to do things opposite to the way mainstream people would do things. And many aspects of bhakti culture were very, very strange for them.

Even now, people encounter the bhakti culture. I was in Australia, and I my class was going to start. There was a aarti going on. And then while Aarti was going on behind, I was talking with a Australian lady. She’s in middle age 4050 505060.

And I was talking. And then she said, can I ask you a question? So the Aarti had gone over. So there does was going on. She said, okay.

Yes. He says, when you when that conch is blown, why does everyone kiss the floor? So from our perspective, okay, you know, they have no idea of. So if your head is going down, they can sing the floor. So many aspects of culture, they just can’t understand.

So when devotees young devotees wear wear and sarees. Now in general, for women, there is a greater license. They can wear many different things in the name of fashion. But for men, there is a certain level of expectation of conformity. There’s one devotee.

He said, my first time I saw a dhoti, I thought it was a giant diaper. So for them, many aspects of the culture are very difficult to figure out. So now when Prabhupada said, let us go out and dance, the hippies also like to do crazy things. And among all the far out things you do, going out and dancing on the streets. Now that was really far out.

But then when they said this is an ancient Indian festival, and they couldn’t imagine that now they were dancing on the street streets. Previously, if they would dance on the streets, police would come and arrest them. Now the police were escorting them. So the point was this thing, doing on the streets of America and using a flatbed truck as the chariot for. This is something which Prabhupad came up with.

So this is his invention. So the invention is not, like, coming up with anything new. How the principle can be applied. That is what Prabhupada is saying, that this is what I have invented. So there are timeless principles, and there are timely applications.

And the applications need to be they need needs to come up with those applications according to time, place, circumstance. So, anyway, when I’m talking about this bhajanna Kriya, this is where the how that bhajanna Kriya is to be done. That is something which one has to consider the time, place, circumstance first. That the principle is that in bhajana kriya said there are do’s and don’ts. What is the the do and what is the don’t?

We remember we talked about that for mind manager, there’s abhyasa and vairag. So what does abhyasa mean? What does vairag mean? Yesterday, I used two words for that. Remember?

Abhyasa was practice or what are the vairagya was? Attachment. Detachment. But what are the we used 2 words yesterday. Dist Distance.

Distance means we try to create a distance between us and our mind. And abhyas was diligence. Diligence is do the same thing repeatedly again and again and again. Now another way to understand the same principle would be that abhyas is to create sorry. Vairag is to create boundaries.

And diligence is to create bonds. So in bhakti, what do we want to do? We want to create bonds with Krishna and we want to create boundaries with Maya. So in this journey where for us, the world is very big and Krishna is very Krishna is relatively small. From there, if we are to go here where the world becomes small and Krishna becomes big.

How is this going to happen? We need to create a boundary. Because if there are no boundaries, then the world will be what we will be repeatedly exposed to. And if it that’s what we keep getting exposed to. That’s what will stay big in our consciousness.

Say, if somebody used to watch a lot of TV. And if they’re watching a lot of TV, then if that is what they’re attached to and if they just keep watching TV every day every day every day, then the TV will become more and more important. Isn’t it? See, sometimes the new TV series starts. You know, when 25 years ago, like, once a week.

Now there are so many channels. Some of that the the program is there every day. And every day, people look forward. 1 hour, I’m going to spend on this. And then sometimes what happens?

That becomes the most important part of the day for them. In the past, entertainment was a break from life. Now life is a break from entertainment. Isn’t it? Life is something you get over with so that you can come in front of TV and watch the TV.

So if we keep exposing ourselves to it, then it will it’s not gonna stay big. It’ll become bigger and bigger and bigger. But if we regulate our exposure to it, that’s we create a boundary. Then gradually, it will not be that important for us. Its importance will go down.

Conversely, when we create a bond so what do I mean by bond and boundary? So boundary essentially means in this context, there is regulated exposure. Regulated means we are controlling it. You remember we reduce to remove. That is the idea of purification.

So we regulate the exposure. We keep it regulated in the sense that we keep it limited. On the other hand, bond means there is we make it regular exposure. So regular versus regulated. So regular.

Say, for example, I decide, every day, I’m going to hear one their Bhagavatam class. So even if it’s a half an hour, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, 1 hour, I’m every day, I’m going to hear this. So Prabhupada also says in his Bengali rendition of the, Bhagavatam verses, which we discussed today morning. So the the He says This is non different from you, Krishna. And if we hear it regularly, what will happen is A person will become sober.

Sober means many things. One aspect of it is that the world which seems so big for us will realize, hey. That’s not that big. It’s manageable. I don’t have to become so exposed to it.

So, basically, bhajana kriya involves these two things, the bonds and the boundaries. So, for example, when we take Diksha, what are the bonds and the boundaries? Yeah. Chanting a particular number found that is the bond. And then what are the boundary?

Yes. The four regular principles is the boundary. So now we can say these are the basic level of bonds and boundaries. Now beyond that, there could be some other boundaries also, and there could be some other bonds also. But the idea is there’s a basic level of bonds and boundaries by which the bhajana kriya is done.

And in general, whatever it is that we expose our mind to, that grows bigger in our mind. This is a general this psychological principle. Nowadays, people say that we are living in the word they use is attention economy. What that means is that the whole economy runs on the principle of catching people’s attention. If you can catch people’s attention, then people see our product, then they get the desire for the product, and then they will take the product.

So it’s all about catching people’s attention. So it’s attention economy. And what that means is you could say this is a psychological principle. This is this. Whatever gets our attention whatever gets our attention gets us.

Whatever gets our attention gets us. So it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’ll get us immediately, but it will get us. If somebody catches our attention, that is the first step. And then from there, we will be pulled in that direction. So if you look at an ad, catches our attention.

Hey. What is this? Say maybe there’s some new clothing brand is there. And then next time you go to buy clothes, you’ll remember, oh, do you have clothes from this brand also? And if that brand is a big name, the cloth might be or the clothes might not be special.

But it’s the brand. Because of that, people spend a lot of money for it. So the idea is we are ready to spend the money because that has got our attention. Whatever gets our attention gets us. So that thing becomes bigger and bigger and bigger in our consciousness.

Now with respect to media, sometimes that which is small can be made a bit by big by propagand. However, with respect to Krishna consciousness, it’s not that we are trying to make Krishna big. Krishna is already big, but in our consciousness, he’s small. So it is not so much propagation as it is education. That which it is not that we are trying to make Krishna big, but rather we are making ourselves aware.

We are making ourselves educated so that we realize that Krishna is the biggest reality. So that’s why while this in a negative sense can be used for propagation, any issue can be made very big. You know, one of my friends in journalism, he says that whatever happens does not become news. Whatever is reported becomes news. I know.

Sometimes the big things may happen, but if there’s a media blackout and nobody reports it, then it may never become news also. Mhmm. Like I said, recently, the atrocities in Bangladesh against Hindus. Now if the so alternative media had not been there, if, say, the only the mainstream media had been there, the mainstream media hardly reported anything. Because eventually, in the alternate media, when WhatsApp messages started coming up, social media people started posting.

And then when that became big, the mainstream media just couldn’t neglect it. And then they also started reporting it. So the idea is that something may happen. But if that does not catch people’s attention, if it is not brought to their attention, then it’s like as if it didn’t happen only. So there is propagation, but there is also education.

So propagation means something is very small, but it is many made very big by propagation. But education is that it is big, and it is reported. So but both of them require the exposure. So it is for us in bhajana kriya, what are we doing? We are regulating our exposure to Maya, and we are regularizing our exposure to Krishna.

And by these two things, gradually, the world will start becoming smaller for us, and Krishna will start becoming bigger for us. Now what does this mean that the world becomes bigger and Krishna becomes smaller? So it can mean many different things, but essentially, if something is bigger for us, then, like we talked about, there are 2 faculties. There is our buddhi and there is our mana. There is our reason and then there is our emotion.

So at the level of our buddhi, at least with logic, with philosophy, we understand that Krishna matters most. That Krishna is the most significant reality. At least at the level of buddhi, we understand it. Mhmm. Now we say, yeah.

If you believe in God, you will understand God is the most important thing. But no. Not necessarily. Yeah. Like I said, God is there.

He’s there. I’m here. You know? So, you know, maybe he matters there. I matter here.

It becomes like that. We will not immediately understand. So god matters most. That is at the level of we understand that god is the most important person in my life. Now at the level of emotion, we understand Krishna cares most.

That not just god matters most, but I start understanding that Krishna cares for me. So we feel Krishna’s love for us, and therefore, that inspires us to receive it. I care most for Krishna. So, essentially, this Krishna becoming big means we feel that Krishna loves me, Krishna cares for me, and, therefore, I want to love Krishna. I want to care for Krishna.

So both in terms of reason and in terms of emotion, both of these, Krishna becomes bigger for us. And reason and emotion are the two basis for our decision making. So if Krishna is big for someone, what would that mean? That could be seen in their actions. Let’s say, if somebody gets a job, they get a lot of money in the job, but that job involves cow slaughter.

They may not be doing cow slaughter, but they have to do some computer coding for, slaughterhouse. So they’ll be getting a lot of money, but will they take that? No. If Krishna matters for me, now the money matters, but there are things that matter more than money. And although that pays me more, this is something which I won’t do.

So that if Krishna really matters, that will be seen in our actions. So love itself is seen in 2 ways. What we give to our beloved. What the what we give to for our object of love. And then second is what we give up for our beloved.

Both of these show love. Say, if parents love their children, then they may want to their child to have the best education. So even if that school is very expensive, even they give that education to the child. And, say, if in that school, the child can have do a project that will have very good for the career, but that project involves going to another country and international fare has to be provided for that. Then the parent will say, okay.

You know? We had planned to go for this hill station during this vacation, but that is the funds we will use for you. So what we give and what we give up. So same way for us, now when we are trying to practice bhakti, this prescribe and proscribe. What we give to Krishna is, Krishna, if I’m going to do this japa, this much time, everyday I’m going to give to you.

That’s what we give. And what we give up? Okay. Maybe I enjoy eating meat or enjoy doing this, I doing that, but I’m not going to do this for you. For any relationship, this is important.

What we give and what we give up. So when these 2 are seen, then both of these are important. And sometimes what we give may be more important. Sometimes what we give up may be more important. But broadly involves these two things.

Now there are in the Bhakti rasamrut sindhu itself, when bhajana kriya is elaborated, the don’ts are not talked about so much because there is a cultural assumption there that a person who is reading a book like Bhakti rasamrath Sindhu, that that person doesn’t have to be told to give up sinful activities because if a person is doing sinful activity, why would that person be even needing to why would that person be interested in bhakti also? Isn’t it? So in bhakti samura sindhu, the 4 regular principles are not mentioned. Why? Because there, the assumption is this is just basic human culture, and you don’t have to tell people to do these things.

And, like, say, in today’s world, do we have to tell common people don’t murder anyone? What do you mean? You know, if somebody gives us that instruction, we will not feel instructed. We’ll feel insulted. Isn’t it?

Why do you have to tell me such a thing? What kind of person do you think I am that you tell me don’t murder anyone? I said, if you say don’t murder anyone, that makes me feel like I want to murder you. So it’s it’s a redundant instruction. So the boundaries may not be emphasized there because they are not required over there to the audience that he is speaking to.

So he talks about primarily the bonds. And there are many different activities, but there are 64 activities within bhakti or 64 activities that comprise bhakti. And within that broad 64 range, there are few that are prominent. So these few are ways in which we form bonds. What are these?

Does anyone know? Yes. Gurupadasa said the first step, but that’s not exactly a monk. Yeah. Okay.

That is also among the first few steps. Krishna, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, Diksha, deity worship, yeah, studying the Bhagavatam, bham, and then seva, service of the Vaishnavas. So these are the 5 ways in which bonds can be established. Now, again, I don’t want to go into elaborate glorification of different shastras of each of these limbs. You know, we are trying to understand primarily within the process of Bhakti how this works.

So, essentially, if we consider each of these serves a different aspect of making Krishna bigger in our consciousness. So when we do Vaishnav say let’s look at them 1 by 1. So I earlier also mentioned about how we have various needs. So, basically, when he’s talking about chanting, it is not just japa. It is the holy name.

So you can have japa and both. So now psychologists also assign and analyze. It can be how many different aspects, but these address different aspects of our human needs. If there’s a human being, the association and the service and the association that addresses our social needs. I’ll explain how that happens.

But the social need, dham, it addresses our environmental needs. We need a supportive environment. Then the Bhagavatam, it addresses our intellectual philosophical needs. Now, of course, the Bhagavatam gives Katha, which is nourishing devotion, but there is also philosophy. There is there are lessons over there.

The deity worship in many ways, it addresses our it you could say the the practical aspects of connecting with Krishna. No. When you relate with a person, you wanna do something for that person. So we dress Krishna. We bathe Krishna.

We cook for Krishna. So the personal is a practical in the sense of the personal practical aspect of bhakti that is addressed by, and especially the psych kirtan, it addresses the psychological. Psychological in the sense of the focusing of the mind that immersing the mind specifically through the medium of sound. That is sonic spirituality. The mind is often very attracted by sound.

Like, music can calm the mind like few things. So what is happening is, though there’s kirtan is music. Kirtan is japa. Sorry. The holy name is access to kirtan and japa.

So now this is just a simple analysis. It’s not that in bhagavatam, it’s only the philosophical aspects. You know, Bhagavatam also gives us experience of another world, of how people lived and how people practiced. There also, you may develop a personal connection with the Lord and the devotees. But, basically, these 5 limbs of Bhakti, they 5 key limbs of Bhakti.

In different ways, they make Krishna the bigger reality for us. So, for example, say, if we are working and in our office environment, say, like, if you go to America no. In America, baseball is very big. When devotee told me when he went to America now in India, the word base base means, like, the foundation. Like, what is the basement, or what is the the foundation of?

Base can also mean, like, a base desire or the low desire. So, you know, like, a base. So he said, baseball? I said, what’s wrong with the ball? Why do you call it a baseball?

He just couldn’t understand it. It was actually a game. So so if you go to office and at office, everybody’s talking about baseball. You know, this match happened over there, and this happened like this, that happened like that, that happened like that. Then what will happen?

We will start thinking, you know, I don’t wanna feel left out. So we may also okay. What is this baseball? How is it played? And who are the teams over here?

If everybody is talking about something and everybody treats it as if it’s very important, then we also start treating as important, isn’t it? So when it’s not just associating, so there there there is a if our boss is talking about some subject, then if that boss is in a position of authority, then we’ll also consider the subject at least somewhat important. Isn’t it? So when we come in the association of devotees, we try to serve devotees. Krishna is important for devotees, and Krishna becomes important for us also.

So that mode of service in association ensures that what is big for devotees becomes big for us. See, for devotees says, you know, this food we are cooking, we’re cooking it for Krishna. We’re cooking with extreme caution to make sure that we have the highest quality for this food. Then, oh, really? Yeah.

This is cooking for Krishna. That gravitas. That seriousness comes in us. So that this from the social dimension, something becomes big for us. So the association of devotees is not just, oh, they’re nice people.

You know, they are so sweet. They are so friendly. They’re so polite. I like to be with these people. That’s good.

That’s also better than for no reason I mean, going in associative materialistic people. But in association, Krishna becomes bigger for us. That’s what happens by Vaishnav Seva. When Prabhupad, introduced Jagannath in ISKCON you know where Jagannath appeared in ISKCON first? San Francisco.

So now at that time, Prabhupada had not released. And in the entire, there’s no mention of Jagannath. In the first canto, which was published till then, first canto said there’s no mention of Jagannath. So at that time, in the books, there was no mention of Jagannath. So one devotee, he wrote from San Francisco to Prabhupada.

Prabhupada, I am worshiping the deity very diligently the way you have described, but I have a question. Can I know who is the deity that I’m worshiping? They knew what Krishna, but this is clearly not Krishna. Doesn’t look anything like Krishna. So they said that, you know, for us, the deity was beloved, so we are worshiping.

Prabhupada told us to worship, so we are worshiping. So that was the the their affection for Prabhupada, their desire to serve Prabhupada. So Jagannath became big for them even if they didn’t know who was Jagannath. So that’s how Vaishnava Seva that makes Krishna is big for the devotee, then that that becomes big for us also. So if there is some senior in our class, in our college, you know, that person is good at their study, that person is respected in college, and that person says, you know, okay.

This is coming to give a class, very intelligent devotee. Now if we pass by before meeting that see that boy, that our senior, if we are seeing that in a car, train, or something going by, we would not even notice. There are so many so many sadhus in India. This is also another sadhu. But because somebody whom we respects respects that devotee, so what happens?

We also start respecting that. So the mood the point of Vaishnava is Krishna and things connected with Krishna become bigger for us. Similarly, if you go to a. Now if you go to and if you go to Jagannath Puri, then then Krishna is the center for everyone. If you go to Vrindavan, their people will read as the Radhe Radhe.

Now the rest of the world, Radhe, they will know they will not even know who is Radhe. Many places. Isn’t it? They may know, Rukmini. They may know Sita, but they may know Radhe Rani also much.

So the idea is that is a place where Krishna is the center. So the environment of a place also has a significant impact. Generally, in the material world, we will always feel like when we’re practicing Bhakti, I’m doing something different from the rest of the world. Most of the world is going one direction. I’m going in a different direction.

And, yes, we we want to go in a different direction. We have the courage. We have that conviction. But still, it feels it feel like a lonely path or at least the path less traveled. But when we go to a dham and we see so many people are doing this, and especially there, we may meet some saintly devotees.

We’ve just given up everything for Krishna’s sake and just there’s some time there are devotees. Now some devotees taken a Kshitra Sanya. He says for 40 years, they’ve been just worshiping 1 deity. They’re not even going 1 kilometer away from that deity. And we see such people.

Wow. You know, what must be they they be getting by worshiping the deity? There must be something special over here. And this is also example of association, but it is in a dham. So dham, it creates an entire ambiance where everything becomes everything is centered in Krishna.

So, again, Krishna becomes the bigger reality for us. Now there are, of course, promises given if you go to a dham, your sinful activities will be removed and all that. Now I’m not going in that direction consciously because we are talking about the process by which this purification happens. Similarly, the Bhagavatam, What happens is we hear stories. Now for Prahlad, the entire kingdom was there to be his if he just accepted Hiranyakashipu as the supreme.

And if he didn’t accept that, he was being threatened and insulted and killed. And yet for Prahlad, Vishnu remained the biggest reality. So such examples again show that how devotees treat Krishna as the biggest reality. How Ambrish Maharaj, this giant demon was coming to kill him, and Ambrish Maharaj not even in the least disturbed by it because Krishna was the bigger reality for him. So in this way, in Bhagavatam through narrations of the activities of great devotees, we are reminded of how Krishna is the bigger reality.

And that’s how it’s not just passive hearing. Oh, nice story. I heard the story. It is through the story, Krishna should become the bigger reality for us. Similar, deity worship, what it does is that we may philosophically understand Krishna as a person, but when we tangibly treat Krishna as a person, you know, we do things that we would do for any other person, then that personal bond is established.

So doing regular deity worship creates that sense within us that Krishna is a person, and I need to connect with Krishna as a person. Now similarly with the chanting of the holy names, it is that we could let our mind go in many different directions. But during kirtan, during chanting, and connecting with the holy name, Okay. I just offer my mind to you, Krishna. So so we could go into each of these limbs further, but the principle is what?

We are doing regulated exposure to the things that will make Krishna the bigger reality for us. K? So this is bhajana kriya. Now after bhajana kriya is Anartha Now Anartha has many different aspects to it. So I’ll focus on one particular aspect of an earth and, and tomorrow morning, the various aspects.

So, we will talk about them. I’ll talk about your broader framework for understanding the various stages or various phases of. But right now, since because I’m talking about bonds and boundaries, that I’ll talk about that in one particular aspect. So once if this is, it’s a long phase within it. So within that, there is one phase like that.

There are many different phases, but it’s called Vishaya Sangra. Vishaya is sense objects. Sangra is sangram, fighting. So fighting with the sense objects. So this is one of the prominent challenges for us when we are trying to practice bhakti, that there are certain objects that we are attached to, and the desire for that objects keeps coming up again and again and again.

And that catches us. That drags us down. So among the various aspects of bhakti, this is probably the most challenging. The various aspects of this is among the most challenging. Now means like retirement.

It retires from our life. It goes away. Is the literal word of the meaning anartha is the word artha artha So artha is money. So, like, Bharat karthamantri. So artha can mean money.

It can also mean value. Artha also has meaning. That’s one of the means of artha. So now artha is also purpose. Like purushartha.

The 4 purusharthas are dharma, artha, kama, and moksha. So artha has many different meanings in this sense. So the idea is that for somebody who is sick, the biggest artha is medicine. You know, when the pandemic, somebody may have a lot of money if there’s no oxygen cylinder available. Then what are you going to do?

You know, the price of oxygen cylinders shot up because it was so necessary. So the idea is that artha can refer to that which is a value, that which is meaning, that which is a purpose. Now, artha, we could say it is the opposite of earth, But literally but that that could literal meaning. Literally, the opposite of Earth. But it in terms of philosophy, what it means is philosophically, what it means is that which makes us see Earth in things that have no earth.

That say, for example, alcoholism. That is an. What happens? Alcohol, there’s not much value to it. But somebody sees huge value to it.

It’s the most important thing. Or if you can say anger. Now when anger happens, then we may have cultivated a relationship of 15 years. But 15 minutes, we go on a rant, and you can destroy that relationship, cultivate for 15 years. But when anger what happens?

Anger comes up. What happens is proving that I’m right and you are wrong. That becomes far more important than maintaining the relationship. So now, like, after 5 years, we may remember I quarreled with that person, but I don’t even remember what I quarreled about. He said it only the bad the bad blood remains, but the reason why we quarrel, that is already forgotten.

So trying to prove that I am right and you are wrong, well, it is important to have some importance, but it may not be so important as to risk a relationship. What does become ruin a relationship? That which has no earth or very low earth, anartha makes us see big earth in that. So, again, going back to our diagram, anartha is what makes the small thing appear very big for us. So essentially so is what causes, to go back earlier, the distortion of perception.

When the mind acts as a distorter, it occurs because of the samskaras, which are corresponding with the Anartas. So happens. That means the distortion of our perception goes down. That is the essence of Anartha. When Krishna becomes bigger, how will it happen?

When other things don’t seem so big for us, then Krishna will become bigger for us. Or Krishna will be revealed to be bigger for us. Krishna is naturally big, but he will be revealed to be big when the Anartha goes down. So how do we do this with respect to the sense objects? Now this is subject we’ll talk about in a lot because I said this, fighting with temptations is a major part of.

And when I’m speaking certain things, it is not that I’m purified. I have won the war against temptation. You know, anybody who says that I have won the war against temptation, temptation has already won the war with them. Because that ego has come, and they will fall soon. Pride comes before a fall.

So it’s an ongoing war. But there are certain weapons which as we keep fighting a war, we understand these are the weapons that can work. But still we have to use the weapons to actually fight. So I’ll talk about primarily at this stage, we’ll talk about boundaries. So purification is the process.

It takes time. Now while this process is happening, we can use certain support systems. So determination is important, but, you know, determination the problem with determination is twofold. We all need determination, but one problem is it is finite. We don’t have infinite determination.

We are finite beings. And after some time, you know, say if we are dealing with 10 difficult people and each person gets on our nerves, each person makes a like, I wanna I wanna yell at this person. Now maybe 9 people, we contain ourselves. But the 10th person comes and makes an unreasonable request. He just they make an unreasonable request, and what happens is there’s a unreasonable explosion from our side.

So maybe, you know, it’s it is not unreasonable for us to consider that, you know, I already dealt with many difficult people. Today, I cannot deal with this. So our determination is not infinite. So it is finite. And we will need to use determination, no doubt.

But we don’t just want to exhaust the determination on any and every battle. And another problem is that sometimes determination may just be insufficient. That means not only does it get exhausted in terms of time, after some time, you don’t have any determination, but sometimes a temptation may be so big that our determination may just not be big enough. So if somebody tells, you know, today I would chant 16 rounds while looking at, like, a drone filled with sweet rice. Don’t take your eyes away from it and chant attentively.

Okay. I’ll chant attentively, but full attention is on the sweet rice. Isn’t it? Okay. Maybe that sweet rice is a part of the menu, and you’re going to eat it.

But there is no need to have the sweet rice when we are trying to chant. Isn’t it? So it may be too difficult for somebody to have to be looking at the sweet rice and try to chant it. It’s just too unreasonable to expect that for most people. It’s our determination will just be insufficient.

So what do we do? That is where see, one of the ways to deal with temp that means create a safe space where we don’t have to deal with temptation. Say, for example, if you’re chanting, in the temple hall, we won’t keep food. In the temple hall, we won’t keep a big TV with the latest breaking news. Isn’t it?

That breaking news will be constantly breaking our attention then. Isn’t it? So that’s a safe space where the world is put aside. We don’t put the world over there. So Krishna talks about this idea when he in 258.

That is He’s saying that just as a tortoise withdraws its limbs into its hard shell. So that even if some enemies there’s some enemies attacking, what happens? That the hard shell is not vulnerable. It’s not vulnerable. So it’s safe.

So the idea is boundaries can create a safe space so that if there is a boundary, the boundaries can be done in various ways. So then there are sense objects over here, and the senses are over here. But what happens is if there’s a boundary in between, then the sense objects are not rushing into the consciousness. They are not being pursued by the consciousness. And if that happens, then we can protect ourselves.

Now boundaries by by no means the final thing. They are the first step. But I’ll talk about 4 ways in which we can establish boundaries in our life and how that can make fighting against temptations easier. So this is an acronym, CAST, c a s p. So what is CAST?

There are 4 ways in which we can set boundaries. 1 is category. A is accountability. S is space. And t is time.

So let me explain each of these, what it means. Say, when we are trying to set up boundaries, what is the purpose of boundaries? It is to regulate our exposure to the things that agitate our mind, the things that become big in our mind and consume our mind. So category may be, for example, we say, we all eat food. No to that.

Or if we decide that I’m going to take food only that is offered to Krishna. Now that whole cat if we decide to follow that principle and the world is still filled with temptations. But if you’re passing by some shop and we see some sweets there, then, okay, that’s not offered to Krishna. I’m not going to take it. So whole category becomes no.

So sometimes just having a categorical boundary is helpful. And now I’ll talk about the positive and negative about each of these aspects of the setting boundaries. So now category and a positive, it becomes very clear. Okay. This whole thing, nothing doing.

Otherwise, there’s always maybe a little is it a problem? I can do a little, maybe a little more, little more. And when does it become harmful? When it’s not so harmful? We can all have, the always yes, no, yes, no goes on in the mind.

But a clear boundary, finished. So at a positive level, setting boundaries in terms of category can maybe can be very clear. Say, for example, now the male female attraction, the sexual attraction is a very natural feature of human existence. But traditionally, there is a very clear boundary that was dharma. That was marriage.

So that if there is no marriage, then there should not be any sexual contact. Now there are always people who will go beyond that. But, generally, if that boundary is established and accepted, then what happens? Okay. Nothing doing.

Nothing doing outside this. So what happens? That’s a boundary. And even in today’s world, the Prabhupada uses the general word illicit sex. Now we could say there is premarital and there’s extramarital.

Now to in today’s world, people are often quite casual about premarital sex. But even today, extramarital sex is frowned upon. People say that if you you’re getting married, then be serious about the marriage. Don’t fool around. So the idea is when I’m talking about boundaries, boundaries can be in 2 ways.

Boundaries can be individual and boundaries can be social. So now the social boundaries come in 2 ways. 1 is culture and the other is law. So culture means that this is not done in this culture. So there are certain cultural norms of behavior that are set up.

So now we may say today is a very, there is a lot of sexual liberalism, and people are mixing freely. Yes. There is some truth to that. But even now, there is a boundary. Say, for example, the boundary is consent.

You know, if there is forced, sexual contact, then that’s a that’s a serious crime, and there can be serious punishment for them. There should be. So the point is there will always be some boundaries. So now in more traditional societies, the society would itself set up certain boundaries. So the law was always there to some extent, but the culture also set certain boundaries.

Now maybe the culture doesn’t set those boundaries. Culture will set some boundaries. Culture may not set certain boundaries. So but what we are talking here primarily is more about individual boundaries. But I’m talking before we go into that, the I’m talking about boundaries as categories.

So the categorical boundary means this is just not done. That this whole thing, I cannot do it. So when we talk about categorical boundaries, this say, for example, somebody is is an alcoholic, and they decide that I’m gonna give up alcoholism. And then there is one way to do they use the word cold turkey. Cold turkey means just give it up completely.

Absolutely no drinking. Because they say even one drink is one drink too much. Now it may not be easy, but it’s very clear. This whole category, no. And if somehow we that can get into our head, then the whole oscillation, it goes off.

Now on the negative side, category may be impractical. Say, for example, now we can say I won’t eat any sweets. Now that is okay. That’s one category I may say yes. But then how do you define sweets?

Is also a sweet? Somebody say I’ll not take any sweet, but I’ll take one full glass of. So now now sometimes it cannot be practical. If we come broke if we come from somebody comes from. And I’m not going to take because I don’t take sweets.

I’m gonna say this is not sweet. This is Jagannath Prasad. That is it sweet? Is it Jagannath Prasad? Now we don’t know how to offer Jagannath.

We just take a small piece, then small piece becomes a big piece, and then the big piece becomes the whole piece. So the idea is it’s not always practical. You know, say we can say no to certain kinds of foods. We can’t say no to food entirely. Isn’t it?

Now some people may say I won’t use I won’t use any social media at all. Okay. Maybe it’s possible. But then do you include WhatsApp also in social media? Okay.

I will use WhatsApp also. Okay. I won’t use any mobile phone only. Well, generally, people who don’t use a mobile phone, it’s they it’s more than they may be free, but they make others anxious. Isn’t it?

How am I going to contact you? Isn’t it? So now some people may have the privilege by which they can do it. Maybe they have they have services which don’t require immediate attention. Maybe they have some assistant who has a mobile, and that assistant can give urgent messages.

It may be possible, but for some people, it may not be possible. So saying no to an entire category now phone can be very distracting. No doubt. But, entire category saying no, it is not practical in most situations. In many sit not say most.

In many situations, it’s not practical. So if we can, it is it is good. Like, we may say no to no meat. Mhmm. Okay.

That’s accessory category. No. But so this is categorical. Now the second boundary is in terms of accountability. Now when I’m using the word boundary, it must become clear it’s not a physical boundary.

Boundaries can be set up in many different ways. So what does accountability means? That accountability can be to 2. It is others and to self. So for example, if we decide that, you know, okay, like, this is a that this is often done in, alcoholics, any kind of addiction.

Now that alcoholics, anonymous, or people are trying to get over alcoholism, they have this program called 12 steps. They use 12 steps as a quite, widely adopted framework to try to deal with, problems. And the first principle there is that, you know, I can’t control my life, and I need some higher power to take control of my life, to help me gain control of my life. So it’s not necessarily devotional, but definitely the the acknowledgment of higher reality. God can be consumed in different ways.

So there are devotees also who try to present Bhagavad Gita wisdom in terms of the 12 steps. So now so one of the the the idea is we everybody who’s trying to recover has to have an accountability partner. That means that if somebody is struggling with alcohol, at the end of the week, maybe they meet their sponsor, their partner once a week, they tell them that, you know, okay, this particular situation, I felt very tempted, and I drank once. Now or I drank twice. I drank too much.

Or say somebody’s dealing with anger. Then they have to tell, you know, I yelled at this person. I spoke this. You know, I did like this. I did like that.

Now just knowing that we have to tell what we are going to do to someone. That itself creates a deterrent. If we just have to report our actions to someone, then what happens? And maybe I don’t want to do this. I know.

I’ll displease the other person. I’ll feel embarrassed. I’ll be chastised. Whatever. There are various motives that come up, but the idea is that that accountability creates a certain boundary within itself.

That’s why you will see when people do something wrong, they are or not as people. We all when if you do something wrong, we try to hide it because we it could be that we don’t want to displease others. We don’t want to fall down in their eyes. Whatever be the reason. But the point is when we are accountable, that creates a sense of boundary for us.

So if we can find someone to whom we can be accountable, that’s extremely helpful. However, the challenge with accountability partner is that it can be the person can be too hard or the person can be too soft. And it’s too hard. What happens is we just end up demoralized. Now we make one mistake, and that person piles on up, like, dropping a 100 ton of chastisement.

And then we feel, you know. We don’t give up the bad habit. We just give up trying to give up the bad habit. We feel I just don’t want this aspect of my life only. So we don’t want that person to be too hard.

At the same time, if that person is too soft, okay. This happened. I’ll try to avoid it next time. Hey, Roy. It’s okay.

Next time again, try to avoid it next time. Then that person is too casual, then we end up becoming complacent. We end up becoming nonchalant. So we want someone who really understands where we are coming from and then either consoles us or chastises us. See, when we will talk about this, dealing with temptation more.

I’m just talking right now about the boundaries. The psychological aspect of dealing with it. It’s a whole different thing. We don’t want to be burdened by guilt and everything. So by so we will talk about the psychological aspect later.

But at this stage, what we want is there has to be a combination of consoling and chastising. Sometimes we just tried our best, but the situation was too much, and we succumbed. So at that time, we need to be consoled. We need to be comforted. We need to be encouraged.

And sometimes, we just took things too casually. We became more confident. We were negligent. Then it’s come that time. We need to be caution.

We need to be chastised. So that finding that is not easy. So the positive of having somebody else as a accountability partner is that it is a powerful deterrent. Deterrent means that it’s something which stops us from doing something. Like, there’s a nuclear deterrent.

The other country has nuclear weapons, and this country will not do much because, you know, they can only use nuclear weapon and destroy. So the deterrent means something stops us from doing something. The negative is that it is elusive. Illusive means finding a partner like that is very difficult. It’s not very easy to find a partner like that.

Now the accountability can also be to ourselves. Ourselves means that every day, we set some time for introspection. Maybe we used to journaling. In some way, our card is a place where we are setting up accountability for ourselves. Now, generally, we may set up accountability more in terms of bonds over there.

Okay. How much do I read? What time do I complete my japa? Or whatever. But we can always customize.

Okay. So, generally, when we do introspection, we may decide. Okay. If during this month, I want to deal with my short temper. So then every day, I will note down the times when I actually felt when I felt angry, the times when I spoke angrily, and then how much time did the anger stay?

What all did I do within anger? So, basically, we could keep track of what we are doing in terms of introspection. So it’s introspection basically means what? Like, I am here, and I go throughout the day. But then for some time in the day, I look at myself from above.

Okay. What did I do? So we can keep a track on ourselves. Now the introspection itself is a big subject, but I’m here, I’m gonna focus on the principle of for accountability. So every day, we can keep a track.

So now it’s very difficult to keep a track on many things. That’s, like, sometimes the new year is when they told me, oh, you know, this new year is going to be a big transformation in my life. I said, how? I have made 108 new year resolutions. I said, Prabhu, with all due respects see, generally, whenever anybody says, with all due respect, what is going to come after that is not going to be very respectful.

So I said, 108 is not a new year resolution. It is a new year wish list. No. We can we can do 1, 2, 3, at the most, 5 resolutions. Otherwise, it just becomes too much.

And after some time, not only we forget to keep the resolutions, we forget even we had made the resolutions to keep. Isn’t it? So 1, 2, 3, 3 is max 5 is the absolute maximum. But, anyway, see, when if you make a resolution, we need to keep watching. Let’s stick to the resolution.

If I couldn’t, what actually happened? What went wrong over there? We have to introspect. We have to evaluate. So the the the idea is every day we take up takes time, some time out, and it’s like if, say, somebody is young, and they’re earning a lot of money, then they may spend a lot of money also.

And they may not even even know where they spend their money. They say, you know, okay. I went to this party, and this happened. And I went there and I went there. Like, some people, they have no awareness of the money.

But then suppose they have to give an account. Okay. You know, sometimes if you have to file income tax returns, and at that time, you say, okay. There’s 2,000 rupees spent over here. 10,000 rupees over here.

25,000 here. Well, 25,000. I don’t know. You don’t know where you spend 25,000 rupee? It oh, just thinking what people will think about us will make us think about how we spend the money.

Isn’t it? So, basically, only when there is accounting, then there can be accountability. Isn’t it? So it’s like it’s like a x y graph. Now only when there is accounting, if I know that I have to keep track of how I spend the money.

Like sometimes when people go for shopping. Like there’s alcoholism, there is something called shopaholism. Shop. Shop. Shop.

Shop till you drop. And then just people keep shopping. And then now nowadays with Amazon online shopping, you don’t even have to go to a shop. Just click a button, and you already bought it. So sometimes sometimes people ask somebody we ask, why did you buy this?

Oh, no. Actually, why did I buy it? I just felt like buying it. And now when we ourselves say I felt like buying it, we are part of ourselves. That’s a stupid reason for buying something, isn’t it?

You should have some reason. So just having some accounting creates some accountability. So what applies to money can also apply to time. That can also apply to other activities. So just keeping some account, especially an account of the issues that we are trying to deal with.

Like, if somebody’s trying to lose weight, then they may keep track of all the food that they eat. Sometimes the people do calorie tracking. Now, you know, it is actually each food that you eat is what devotee was telling me. He was trying very strong to to lose weight. So some people it’s like, you know, the karma also plays a role over here.

Some people, they eat a lot, and they never seem to gain weight only. I should not be eating so much. Just writing down what all I eat. That creates a deterrent. So these are various ways.

So if somebody writes down every day, okay, how much time I spend on social media? Nowadays, when tech while technology creates distraction, technology can also help us create some boundaries that, you know, we can have on our phones or our lap on our devices, some track. Okay. In this particular day, you will spend this much time on this device or on not just on the device. Your screen time was so and so.

That you spend this much time on WhatsApp. You spend this much time on Facebook. So that’s some way where the device itself can do some accounting for us. But that accounting is of no use if you are not having accountability. So both accounting and accountability.

Now the self account self accountability, the positive of that is it is easy. It is easy to do means we don’t need some other person. It’s easy for us if we decide to do it. But the negative is that it is also easy to avoid. Isn’t it?

So I can say, okay. Like, the day I over eat, I’ll just not write on that. I said I had no time to journal. So then what happens is our journal will never show anything about the times when we we did something wrong. So it’s easy to avoid.

But but accountability is one way in which we can set a boundary for ourselves. What is the acronym we are discussing? Cast. Cast. S is Space.

Space. Now what does space mean that see, our mind is lazy. So basically, this is the boundaries work for different particular kind of desires. See, the desires can also be of 2 different kinds. And so some are superficial desires and some are deep rooted desires.

So superficial means, like, say, I pass by a shop, and I saw this food. I thought, okay. This looks nice. I want to eat it. So that’s a superficial desire because superficial desire is more like it’s a outside in desire.

Say, it’s you know, we we maybe we had a meeting and the meeting got canceled, and we are sitting at home and then nothing urgent to do. We’re 1 hour free and then think, okay. Let’s see what is on TV. Then we are surfing around looking, oh, is there something interesting on TV to watch? So that is outside in.

But maybe there’s a TV serial we like. We will never miss it. So even if we go to some relative’s place or some acquaintances’ place, they say, hey. Can I watch this TV program? So that is like a deep rooted desire.

Deep rooted is more of inside out desire. That means, outside in means the object comes in front of us, and then we get the desire for it. But in deep rooted is that particular memory of the object is already very deep inside us. It’s strongly rooted. Deep rooted means strongly rooted.

And wherever we go, that desire comes up over there for us. So among these 2, boundaries will work for which he desires? Yes. More for superficial desires. For deep rooted desires, it will not work.

So because see, even common sayings that are there in life, they’re also there there can sometimes be opposite. Like out of sight is out of mind. Now that is one saying. But then there is also another saying, separation makes the heart grow fonder. The separation makes the heart grow fonder.

So when something is not there, then we remember it more and more. We look for it more and more. We pine for it. We long for it. So now separation makes the heart go.

Founder will apply for which desires? Deep rooted desires. So something is not there. Say we like some food item very much. And then we go to some other country where nobody makes that food item, and we don’t know how to make it.

Then as soon as we come back to our country, we’ll we’ll tell the lady, can you make this food item, or we’ll find a shop where we can go and eat it? Isn’t it? So we’re not just because we’ve gone away, we’ve not forgotten it. So boundaries, generally, they work for superficial desires. They don’t work so much for deep rooted desires.

But deep rooted desires also need to be dealt with, and we’ll talk about how to deal with them over a period of time in our next session. But the idea is that boundaries do help. So when we talk about boundaries, I’m talking right now about space. So if we can create some space between us and the tempting object, then that space can act as a deterrent. Say, for example, say we are studying.

We’re studying our academic books, our professional books, our spiritual books. And say our phone is right next to us, and our phone beeps. Maybe some messages come up. And now if the phone is right next to us, we’ll pick up the phone and watch it and see. Let me look at the bottom of the message.

And one message? Okay. Maybe there’s some other message. Like, you say, okay. There you go.

Your friend has updated their Facebook profile photo. Oh, okay. Just let me look at what the photo is. You look at the photo. Hey.

Where did they take the photo? This background looks very special. Then we scroll down the street. Okay. You went there.

He didn’t tell me he was trying to go there. Who all went there? All my friends are leaving me out. They’re not telling me. And they click and they say, hey.

This person is also there. You know, did this person why did they tell me? And then we go in their feed. And I go in their feed. And what happens is that we thought I’ll go for 1 minute and 1 hour goes away.

We don’t realize only. So what happens is but if the phone we decide when I’m going to study, I’m gonna beep the phone in the next room. Then even the phone beeps slightly. Okay. You know, I had to walk till the next room.

Okay. The mind is lazy. Okay. Forget it. Now I’ll do it afterwards.

Or say suppose people sit down to watch TV. Now what happens many time when people have TV, they have something to eat, usually popcorn. You know, that’s a typical food that it’s like what happens when you’re watching TV? The the Shastras talk about any eating, sleeping, mating, defending. But, like, TV and entertainment, it is more like secondhand eating, sleeping, mating, defending.

Isn’t it? Somebody else the hero is the heroine, and all the audiences want dreaming. If I were there, it would be so nice. It’s all secondhand. So what happens is, you know, everything is imaginary.

Something has to be real. That’s why people I have to eat something. Some enjoyment has to be real. That’s all in there. It’s imagination only.

So then sometimes and you’re just watching TV and just eating and eating and eating. Just people keep eating so much. They don’t even realize. So now, if somebody decides that, okay. If I’m gonna watch some TV, I’m not going to eat.

I’m not getting any food nearby. Otherwise, they finish one packet of popcorn, and then there’s other there’s a fridge that’s right next to the the couch only. So just move your hand. You don’t even know when you moved your hand. And then you pick up another packet, and then eat another packet.

And then after that, the fridge is empty, and the stomach is super full. So if there’s a little space okay. Okay. I’m gonna eat this much popcorn, but the other free other bucket is it’s on is in the basement. Okay.

I have to get up and go all the way. Forget it. So now just creating some space is helpful. So space means you’re talking about some distance. So for all of us, we can find out how we can create some space for ourselves.

Where so space basically means it’s like when we have space, it is a temptation free zone. Now we cannot make the world temptation free. There’s also gonna be temptation in the world. But at least I can create a corner that is temptation free. So now, the if the positive the positive of this is that it is very effective.

It is simple and effective if you can do it. But again, the negative is sometimes it’s just not practical. We might be staying in a small house and, you know, there’s no other place where we can keep our phone. We only have a small place where we study. If you’re staying in a hostel in one room, you can’t keep your phone in another room, generally speaking.

So sometimes it may not be practical. We don’t have the space. But space is helpful. Say, for example, this is the place which is my temple hall. This is my temple altar.

So here, I don’t bring my phone. Yeah. I saw 1 cartoon once like this. It like multitasking in Bhakti. So what was it?

There’s one person who was doing Aarti with one hand, hand as a phone, and they’re watching an insta reel on the other hand. No. That’s ridiculous. You know, why do we do Aarti at all? So, generally speaking, if we are this is my this is my sacred space.

So don’t bring the Mandan over there. So use some space. Now similarly, the same applies with respect to time. So for example, we decide is one day where we fast. The fast means we’re not necessarily fasting completely.

We’re fasting from grains. So for a particular amount of time, I will not do this. For this month, I’m going to abstain from this food. The specific food that we abstain from is not as important. It’s important, but more important is the principle.

See, macho I will talk about the psychological side of fighting against temptation tomorrow morning, and you talk about near mark, Shama, but the the inability to follow rules. But here, I’m talking about that if we are able to do something for even a finite amount of time. No. Okay. I have the capacity.

Okay. Some like, nowadays, people have this digital detox. Okay. But for one day, I’m just not going to use my phone. Now I cannot give up my phone completely, but one day, maybe it’s possible.

Or I may decide that, okay, till morning 9 o’clock, I’m not going to look at my phone. Now, again, I’m not saying everybody has to do it or it’s possible for everybody to do it. Sometimes you may have some services. But keeping some time okay. After 9 o’clock at night, I’m not going to look at my phone.

Whatever it is. So we create some boundaries in terms of time for ourselves. Now sometimes in India, there is this tendency to trash the western culture. And I would say it’s not so much a conflict in India and the west. It is more between materialism and spirituality.

And among the west, some for us, America is Hollywood. But actually, America is the most religious country among the in the Western world. America is far more religious than UK or France or Australia or New Zealand. The large parts of America are quite seriously they’re Christian evangelical, but they’re quite religious. And there are other certain amount of culture and boundaries, and all those things are there over there.

So the point I was making is that for people, like, in the Jewish religion, they have a day for Sabbath. The the on that day, they say we won’t use any technology. Now in New York, there’s a whole area where you stay. So on that day, they say that we will not even press the button to to to go in an elevator. So then what do they do now?

If if you are staying in a 25 story building, You cannot climb up. So now the holes the the the the areas where the Jews stay, that it’s arranged in such a way that on that particular day, they have computer control of the elevator. So the elevator automatically keeps going up and down. So they have arranged it like that. See, the it’s here is example of an individual that serious about the boundary, the society also create those boundaries.

Mhmm. So and, and Europe, especially, there is a lot of Islamic immigration that is happening. So in many big supermarkets, they have sections for halal food, and they themselves ride over there. This is a halal section. It’s a label which is there publicly.

So the boundaries of that particular religion are also facilitated by society eventually. But when people become vocal about the boundaries, people become insistent. So the point I’m making is that sometimes certain certain kind of boundaries, we may feel it’s not practical. But if we start doing that, people start accepting it. So, you know, if somebody is at least in as in America, somebody says I’m a Jew.

You know, on this day, I don’t pick up a phone call. The boss will also respect it. I won’t call you on this day. Or if I don’t I don’t expect you to pick up the phone call. In general, the work culture is relatively much healthier in the west.

If your boss calls you on a weekend, the boss will in fact, he’ll never call you on a weekend. And if the boss calls, the first thing is the boss will apologize. Sorry for disturbing you on a weekend. In India, I’ll say, you will be sorry if you don’t pick up my phone. So there is a certain respect for boundaries in terms of time.

So now this may not always be in our control, but just because it is not always in our control, doesn’t mean it is never in our control. So we may decide, okay. This is the time for my japa. Then I’m going to focus on japa at this time. Please don’t disturb me during this time.

So it may not always be possible, but sometimes it is possible. So pay time is also a doable boundary for us. For this much time, I’m going to do this. One of my friends is an author. So he when when he was working from home, he had a small room, which is like his office.

And he showed me a note he had written. He said it was for his own family only. Family and friends, he said that, you know, I’m writing now. If you disturb me with all humility, I will break your legs. So he he said, this I have to be this is my job.

I have to work on writing. So I I cannot let people disturb me. So so the point is sometimes we have to create boundaries in terms of time, in terms of space. So the idea is that when we create boundaries, that becomes like a external support for us in our battle against temptation. There’ll always be going to be a battle, and there are desires inside of which are also there.

But the desires can be triggered by things outside. And at least the triggering can be minimized. In one sense, the bond again, now the positive and the negative, both of these is if the if it’s if it’s positive, it’s in one sense, it’s easy and it’s effective. We can easily decide, okay, till 12 o’clock, I’m not going to do this. Till 12 o’clock every day, I’m not going to open my social media.

Maybe I’ll check my emails, but not social media. So we can decide like that. Now negative is, again, it may not be practical for different people based on different situations, their roles, their responsibilities. Now in one sense, boundaries are generally speaking, before we came to spirituality or you read something about psychology, generally, we talk about boundaries in terms of geography. Like national boundaries.

Like, say, the India Pakistan boundary is a disputed area. There’s actually the boundary. It’s actually on the actually on the geography. But then there are also the actual line of control. The 2 may be different.

But if a country doesn’t have a boundary only, then there is actually, there’s no country only, isn’t it? So if anybody there’s no boundary, anybody can go from one country to another country without any sense of crossing a boundary. Now inside the country, there can be criminals, and they have to fight against them. But there is a difference between the police and the military. The military is meant to deal with invaders.

The military is at the boundary. The police is meant to deal with domestic law and order. So now the military generally has much heavier weaponry because there are bigger dangers that exist outside the boundaries. So for us, yes, there are inside only there are contamination, then we have to deal with the contaminations. But it is like if we consider boundary, there is outside the boundary, and there’s a different approach.

There’s a military over there. So and inside the boundary, there is police. So outside, we if we create boundaries, there is certain kind of battle we need to fight. So if, say, India, Bangladesh has a boundary, then still immigration might happen. Illegal immigration might also happen.

But if at least a boundary is there, there’s some limit understanding. Well, this person has come from across the boundary. But if there are no boundary at all, if there’s nobody at all policing the boundary, anybody can come in at any time. Then the whole idea of nation becomes redundant. So if there are no boundaries, then the whole idea of self control, self discipline, self transformation, it just becomes meaningless.

Krishna says the first step in sense control is set up boundaries. So it’s it’s not the last step, but it is the first step. If there is no boundaries, there cannot be any difference. Boundaries are the first step in the defense. So by setting boundaries, at least we can know when we are being defeated, how often we are being defeated, what are the areas we need to strengthen ourselves.

So in that sense, boundaries, they are the first step in the war against temptations. It’s a complex war. It’s not easy to win, but it’s the first step. Krishnas 3:40. So the one is so the second is how do you deal with the disruptive desire that are already inside that we will talk tomorrow morning.

But I’ll summarize what I discussed today. Today, we discussed 2 main things. We are continuing our bhakti journey, and we discussed the first main thing was about bhajana kriya, the next stage. So in bhajana kriya, I discussed 3 points. 1st is how the principles themselves are timeless.

They are unchanging. Fix the mind on Krishna, that’s the principle. The application of those principles, that is timely. So the Prabhupada, when he says I didn’t change anything, that’s referring to the timeless principles. But with respect to the application, the idea of distributing books, the idea of doing the on these general streets across the world, It’s a timely application.

So then we also discussed it with respect to Bhajan Kriya. The idea is we involve bonds. Bonds is to make Krishna bigger. And then there are boundaries that is to make Maya smaller. So like in a medicine, prescribe and prescribe.

Do’s and don’ts. So you remember the spiritual journey, you wanna make Krishna bigger in our life. And the last one we discussed is, when we say make Krishna bigger, there’s a difference between propagating, which advertisement mind do so that small things are made big. But bhakti is about educating. Krishna is already actually big.

We are simply realizing that He is big. And then Anartha nivrutti. So within that, Anartha is anartha is that which makes us see artha where there is actually no artha. That is anartha. So alcoholism makes us see that alcohol is extremely important, and it has no importance at all.

For example. So in Anartha Naruthi, specifically, we focus on the battle with the sense objects, which are sangra. So which are sangra is sangra. And in that, I talk about specifically boundaries And 4 ways in which boundaries can be set up. What are the acronym?

Caste. Caste. C was category. So we can decide no to an entire category of things. That’s simple in terms of what to say yes and no to, but many times it may not be practical.

Then a was accountability. So we can keep a track of what we are doing. And there are 2 kinds are to others. You can have accountability partner and self. Then s was space.

We can create some geographical distance and tap the laziness of our mind that, okay, I won’t do this in this particular place. And similarly, time. For till this particular time, I won’t do this. So that way so the idea is we we don’t over rely on determination. We need determination, but we don’t want to over rely on it.

Why? Because determination is finite, and sometimes it can be insufficient. So our boundaries can help us without unnecessarily exhausting our determination. So boundaries, they’re not the solution. They are the first step.

And they work against, desires can be of 2 things. They are superficial and then they are deep rooted. So boundaries generally work against superficial desires. So how to deal with deep rooted desires? That we’ll discuss in our next session.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

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Absolutely true. By rendering the most of this in terms of what he has heard from the. The absolute truth is realized is simple. By process of devotional service is a lot of possibility. But the personality part is the full fledged absolute truth.

Brahman is a struggle body balance, and Parmatma is partial representation. I said absolute is, but a partial realization. Let’s focus on this part. Today, Moli, we’ll begin our exploration for 5 sessions on the the part of the. Broadly speaking, we could call it the.

So this is various places. This has been. Broadly speaking the spiritual quest where a person seeks something beyond this physical world. Something else seems to matter more. That has been a feature of.

Not many people, but they’re having people who have sought something. And there are various metaphors used. 1 is, of course, the metaphor of a journey. When we go on a physical journey, we go through different territories. In each territory, we experienced different things.

The journey books are very popular. Cali, was travel, you had a child or something like that. So, like, that is a journey and we go through the guest territories. We encountered incredible things. In other environment, so so it could be used to refer to it can also be covering.

Recovery is more like a medical or a health recovery. So now health recovery will also be called a journey, but it’s more like a mechanical journey. Is that okay? What are the stages that one will go through? So we will look at some of these things from that metaphor also.

The metaphor of the stages of return, then we could also talk about it in terms of the development of a relationship. Because this is not especially not just the generic spiritual journey, but if it’s a teacher, what is about the relationship? So when you end up in a relationship with someone, how does that relationship then? So we will use these 3 broad metaphors. Each of these metaphors.

We focus on slightly different aspects with the journey. The focus is on the territory With the health recovery, the focus is more on inner experience. Okay. If some of the doctor is able to ask, you know, it’s a pretty recovery. Okay.

Which places will you be able to improve? Is it how are you feeling? You know, how is your back? How is your digestion? How is your headache?

What is it? So it’s more in an experience. And the relationship is also about experience. But relationship is more about understanding the other person. As we understand the other person, of course, because the other person also has to understand us.

So all these aspects are there, and each metaphor focuses on the different aspects. So now one image, we will keep coming back to in this spiritual journey. That is initially for most people. The word is big, and god, Krishna, is small. But when we grow spiritually, what happens is the world becomes big, and Krishna becomes small.

Is that correct? Now what happens? The world becomes small, and god becomes big. Now so this is the particular image we can keep in mind. And you can forget everything from this whole series of classes.

Somebody has to mute their phones. So this is an image which can help us make sense of what we are will be explored. Now in one sense, Krishna is always with when you say Krishna becomes big needs for us becomes more and more. And the world becomes small is different. I’m saying that the world becomes spots.

In this in the philosophy, the world is still. So this is the journey of spiritual group is a change in conceptions. The another important thing over here. Initially, not only is the world begin to small, but often god is the needs and the world is the ends. What that means is that we even if we had all concern ourselves with god, it is so that we can even make things better than the world.

Initially, even as introduced about me. I started sharing it by the. So one of my answers. Yeah. I believe in God.

He’s happy there. I’m happy. So, one thing that God is not. So the as a initially, God is very small. And God becomes of some relevance when I have some problem that I can’t solve.

Then God, you please help me fix this one. So in contrast, what happens is as we close the community, the world becomes the means, and god becomes the things that we okay. I may seek to add. I may seek some position. I may seek some following, but it is for Krishna.

Even if I don’t get the knowledge, what I want is to get to Krishna, to connect. To enter back to America at the 69/70. Even if the coupon had not been successful in attracting any following. Still successful in the because what the group is pleasing Krishna is more important. And so on that purpose here, we can be in the world also.

And that was blessing on. But the problem, but the goal was to be the means. So this is the journey that we should go on. For us, when you want to go to that needs, Krishna is to become bigger. So there are 9 stages in this process and described by.

Now the devotional journey, how does it happen? For many people, spirituality, it is all about uncertainty. And this is spiritual needs, whatever makes you feel good. So versus, oh, I went on the mountain break. The technique we feel very spiritual.

Okay. It might have made you feel better, and maybe thinking about nature, it reminds us of some bigger realities. And in some ways, you will call it spiritual. But for many people, spirituality is it’s like a lot of uncertainty. You know, something makes you feel good, and that’s okay.

We don’t want to feel bad necessarily, but there’s so many things which can make you feel good. Now watching TV can make you feel good. Does that make a TV spiritual? Making drugs can make you feel good. Taking drugs can make you feel good also, isn’t it?

So So you have to get a. Whatever makes you feel good, whatever makes you both float, is it? That is. Well, no. Not necessary.

You could say it makes me feel good. That is a criteria, but it is, you could say, the lowest of the criteria because many things can make us feel good, and they may take us away from spirituality also. You could say that it also makes us good. Makes us good means changes us for the better. It doesn’t just feel good, but improves us.

That’s important also. So we could say pain medication can make us feel good, but an actual curative medication will make us not just feel good, it’ll actually make us good. Isn’t it? So makes us good is another understanding of spiritual. That’s also another criteria.

But the most important it, it makes us closer to God, who is the ultimate good. That is the most important criteria, you could say. What is spiritual? It doesn’t just make us good, but it makes us closer to the ultimate good. It makes us godly.

And not just makes us closer to god in the sense that, you know, my god has told you to told me to destroy you because you are worshiping another god. No. That is just narrow mindedness. That’s not the kind of closeness that we’re talking about. It is where a person becomes completely devoted to God.

We’ll talk about what closeness to God means. But so spirituality, yes, there is certain amount of uncertainty. There is certain amount of mystery, but there also has to be certain amount of clarity. Otherwise, it can just be very vague and confusing, and then predators can come in and exploit people in the name of spirituality. So there has to be some level of clarity.

Now if you consider the spiritual journey, there is you could say some description of this in the verse that we recite. Bhagavatam 1.2. This verse 12 to 22. This is the the most quoted section from the Bhagavatam by Srila Prabhupada. Actually, this section starts a little earlier from the 6th verse, but this is the most quoted section by Shlop Prabhupada.

So especially from the 12th verse onwards, there is a description of the spiritual journey. Now this particular description has been elaborated in the Bhakti Prasamrut sindhu, where taking this as the basis, Jio Rupa Goswami talks about 9 stages of devotion. So here, the 9 stages are not explicitly mentioned, but they are pointed to. So as a field is studied more and more, understood more and more, the clarity may come more and more. So it’s like, say, somebody has paralysis and there is no cure for paralysis, and then we find a cure for paralysis.

And the patient gets cured. And as there is more and more clinical study, then study may reveal, okay, you know, this is one stage of recovery. This is next stage of recovery. This is next stage of recovery. So now what Bhakti Samuelsindra has described, that is described in further detail in another book called Madhuriyakadam Bini.

So so Madhuriyakadam Bini is a book written by Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakul. So he was a prominent commentator in our tradition. So Bhaktiya Sambalindo is by Rupa Goswami. So we will be trying to understand this inner journey as has been talked about in these three texts. And then we will also talk about some things which, you know, we can also experience in the contemporary world to see how there are rough parallels.

So the idea is Krishna says In 4.10, he says many others have gone this path. Many others have become purified. So if somebody’s trying to climb Mount Everest no. Then the first person who had to climb up, they didn’t even know what they’re going to encounter. But the first person has climbed up, and then they have written a memo at their experiences.

And somebody else who wants to climb up Mount Everest, now their experience will not be entirely the same because the weather can be different. Even the terrain can change. Sometimes there is more snow. Sometimes there’s less snow, but they have some idea of what is happening or what they are likely to encounter. So similarly for us, on the spiritual journey, this is that path that we will all experience.

Broadly speaking, each experience will be individual, and there’ll be variations, but broadly, there are patterns, and that’s what we will try to understand. So now here, there are Rupa Goswami talks about 9 stages, and So let’s try to understand these 9 stages. Now they could be envisioned as like if we had a bridge. The bridge has 9 planks. So if there’s a mountain over here, there’s a mountain over here, and then we have a 9 plank bridge.

That’s one way to look at the 9 stages. But this is not the best metaphor because it is not that we leave the previous stage entirely go to the next stage. It is more that we build on the previous stage. So it’s better to envision this more like a 9 step staircase. So when we are going to the next step, we are on the previous step.

The next step is built on the previous step. So in that sense, the previous stages are still there. So it is not that we completely give up the previous stages. We still have the previous stages, but we move forward. So the what are the 9 stages over here?

Anyone know the stages? Yes. The first stage is Shraddha. So that’s what what is mentioned in this verse. Is there.

Today it was So Shraddha, let’s see what that means. Let’s focus on the Sanskrit words, then we’ll look at the translations of those words. Shaddha is the first stage. Then anyone know the next stage? Sadhu sangha is the association of spiritually minded people.

Then bhajana kriya. Then there is, you could say, the practice of bhajan. The activities that comprise bhajan, we start doing those things. And after that, This is, for most of us, the longest stage, and it’s often a stage of great struggle. Then Nishta.

Then after that, Ruchi, then Asakti. Bhav, and then after that, Prem. So like that, these are the lines here that I talked about. So what we will be doing is we will be looking at these stages 1 by 1, and we will focus more on the first six stages. The remaining 3 are little more advanced.

We will discuss them briefly, but we’ll be focusing on the first six stages more to understand this journey. Now broadly speaking, if we consider that there are some sense some concept which seems similar over here, but let’s start. Prabhupada here in this particular word. Prabhupada translates here as the seriously inquisitive sage. So normally would translate it as faith.

And, yes, there is element of faith, but it is more like a Shanda is favorable curiosity. Hey. Maybe there is something of value over here. Let me find out. It is the spiritual stuff, this stuff.

So many people are doing it. Maybe my friend is also doing it. My friend has invited me to the role. Let me go and find out what it is. At that stage, it need not be that one has any strong faith in God per se.

That is more of openness and curiosity. Let me find out what is there. Maybe there is something of value. That’s how it starts. So say if we take the example for journey.

Journey is a mountain trek. Somebody wants to climb up a mount address. Well, maybe that’s a mountain nearby over here. Some people wanna go on a trek. So then maybe our friend says, hey.

You know, I went on that trek. Would you like to join? You know, there is an orientation meeting over here where they’re telling what the experience about the trek are. Okay. Let’s go.

You know, I’m interested. So we go there. And then there are all these trekkers. Maybe they are there is a person who’s a trek guide. There are former trekkers who have been up the mountain, and they all share their experience.

And then they say, oh, okay. This sounds interesting. Maybe I want to try it out. They say, oh, not so easy. First, you will have to make yourself fit.

You know, maybe if you are if you are not fit enough, it’s a difficult climb where you do these exercises, you get your blood pressure to this level, you get your weight down, you’ll get some muscles. You do these things by which you will actually become capable of climbing. So that’s where the doing the exercises to actually get ready for that climb. That is like bhajana kriya. So a person gets into gets into shape, and they start doing the exercise.

Okay. This part, you have to actually pull yourself up by a rope and hold on and climb up. Can you are your muscles strong enough to lift your whole body up? Can you do that for 5 minutes, 10 minutes? Now now all climbing is like a game which people play.

So how strong are you? So you have to get through the exercises to actually get ready. So that’s bhajana kriya. And then after that, is basically we may have fear of heights. And if you have fear of heights, what are you doing going on a track?

Isn’t it? Okay. Then maybe you have to deal with the fear of heights. You have to go a little bit high up and see how it goes. And gradually, whatever is going to hold us back, that starts decreasing.

And then maybe there’s a trial run. Okay. That particular mountain is 25 miles. Now here there’s a one mile trek over here. Let’s try it out.

Then when you try it out, you’re able to do it, you develop some more faith. Yeah. I can do it. This whole process, this actually works. I didn’t think I I had it in me to climb up like this, but I was able to climb up.

So then the Nishtha comes. So Nishtha and Shraddha, the words can seem similar, but whereas this is curiosity, this is more of conviction. Yes. This works. This can be done.

It it can work for me. It’s more of a personal realization. So it’s a personal realization. It’s a personalized personal conviction. Yes.

This works for me. And then as that person goes up, maybe initially they just had some curiosity. Now state are developing a fondness for nature. They get fascinated with nature. Okay.

You know, which are these trees over here? You see, each tree, each we call it greenery, but everything has a separate shade of green. And then, you know, high up you can see these birds. Maybe from there, you can see this waterfall. You start falling in love with nature.

And then initially, a person might just go because they want the sense of adventure. You know life is boring. I want to do something stimulating. So the difference between the as the ruchi and asakti is that in the ruchi, it is the activity itself that is exciting. But in asakti, it is not just what we are doing, but it is the object that we are engaging with.

1 is just the adventure of the trek. The other is love for nature itself. The 2 are very different ideas. Somebody who has love for nature may not need an adventure. They could just go out to a walk through a peaceful area and they still enjoy it.

It. Somebody, this walk is too peaceful for me. So something is so there are different stages. It’s similar, but different stages. And then Prem is a person who just falls in love with nature, falls in love with the mountains, you know.

So that’s a example of a trek. Now we could also take the example of medical recovery. So somebody comes to know, hey. You know, you had this back issue or you have some weak, persistent weakness, low immunity, or you got some disease. And I hear this doctor actually cures.

This particular treatment cures. Now initially, there might just be favorable curiosity. Let me find out. And then maybe we attend some YouTube talk or we go for some seminar. And then the doctor gives a description.

You know? Okay. This is how this particular treatment works. This is what happened. This is what happens.

And then maybe there’s some some patients who have been cured. They give their testimony. Okay. No. I had this condition, but I did this treatment, and now I’m cured.

Oh, okay. Maybe I want to find out more about this. Okay. What do I have to do? Okay.

The doctor may say, okay. Let’s stop eating these kind of foods. Do this exercise. You know, take this this medicine. So then we start the bhajana kriya.

Now when we start doing that, maybe say some other neuroticism start coming from the body. So that’s not especially in, say, homeopathy medicine, some medicines like that. Some treatments like that. Sometimes the condition becomes worse before it becomes better. So sometimes when the toxins are coming out, then all the all that is there hidden in our body, it is weakening us, but it is not visible.

It starts coming out. So that’s that slowly starts happening. And then after that, we feel fitter. We become healthier. Maybe we do some medical test, and we find that our my cholesterol has gone down.

My blood pressure has gone down. My immunity, hemoglobin has gone up. So many things. The parameter show health. Then what has happened is that’s when we get Nishtha.

This works. I’m actually cured by this. So this is the stage where now somebody may say, you know, okay. This whole treatment is a quack. There is no medical basis for this.

There is no clinical study for this. Okay. Maybe there’s no clinical study. Like, our devotees in Mumbai, during the COVID pandemic, they developed a medicine. They called it.

It helped many people. They tried a test in the dharavi slums, and they tried to get it certified with the government. All of the and the government is favorable. They have a huge department. But the mainstream medical protocols, they are made in such a way that for I rhythmic I rhythmic medicine to get it recognized is very difficult.

So even now many insurance providers medical insurance provider, health insurance, they will provide for, allopathic treatment health insurance, but they don’t provide any support for aerobic treatment because the medical protocols are made in a particular way. So now the doctor the mainstream medical community may say this this medicine doesn’t work, but it has worked for me. I have seen myself transformed. So even if somebody gives argument saying this doesn’t work, at that stage, those arguments don’t work on us. Isn’t it?

So this is the stage where sometimes we may hear somebody criticizing Krishna consciousness, somebody saying this is wrong, that is wrong, that is wrong. Okay. Maybe there is some truth to that, but this process has worked for me. At the stage of Nishtha, the conviction that comes from our personal experience is far stronger than any argument based on some logic or some reasoning or this or that. So that is Nishta.

And then gradually, as we keep moving forward. No. Then we may say it’s not just that my intangible parameters are so my health is better. Maybe I can lift weights. I can run faster.

I can I don’t get breathless when I climb up stairs? You know, we start not only being able to do physical activity, but we start enjoying doing physical activity. We don’t feel it a burden. We don’t feel it exhausting. That’s where the recovery is becoming more and more positive.

So that’s the the health metaphor over there. Now the relationship metaphor, I’ll talk about it a little later. But just a quick point over here that with respect to the relationship metaphor, See, there is curiosity. K. Now if you wanna make a friend or now there’s people want to date, whatever it is.

If you wanna have a relationship first, you have some curiosity. Okay. What is this person like? You know, even if you wanna make some devoted friend among the devoted community, there’s no romantic relationship at all. But still, okay.

I heard about this person. Let me just spend some time with them. There’s some curiosity. And from that curiosity, we okay. You know, let’s spend some time together.

Let’s take a let’s take lunch together. Let’s do some activities together. We spend time. We learn more about each other. Then I may have some conceptions about you.

You may have some conceptions about me. As we talk well, as we spend time together doing the activities, then the conceptions are addressed. Sometimes, we think, okay. You know, this person like this, but, actually, they’re not really like that. And then goes, does whatever misconception or conception, whatever notions we have, then Nishtaal.

I can count on this person. This person is trustworthy. Now it’s interesting. Trust and love, they’re not the same thing. Nishta and Prema.

They’re 2 different things. If we have to do a surgery, we trust the doctor. But do we love the doctor? No. He said it.

We were ready to entrust our life, and that trust is more based on the medical competence. Love is more about the character, the personality, the more the central of the person of who they are. So like that, there are many people who may have trust in God, but that does not necessarily mean they have love for God. So the 2 are very significantly different. Of course, trust and love is related.

We cannot trust someone whom we hate, obviously, but we may dislike someone, and still we can trust that person, you know. I know I don’t like this doctor as a person. They’re a little disagreeable, little rude, but I know this doctor is good in terms of medical expertise. So sometimes there are some quirky doctors. Now they are foul mounted, foul tempered, but they are so good that people still go there.

So I may trust the doctor, but I didn’t really like you. It’s a curious situation, but, yes, somebody will say I I trust you, but I don’t like you. Is that a compliment or a criticism? But there’s a there’s a difference between trust and love. So actually, in one sense, it is easier to trust God than to love God.

Loving Krishna is a far, far more advanced stage. Trust is more about, at least in this context, it’s you can do something good for me. That you have the capacity, you can do something good for me. So we may trust our attorney that, okay, there’s this property dispute. You will get this property for me.

But love is more like not you can do, you are good for me. Not just good for me. You are the best for me. It’s not what you can do. You as a person are the best for me.

That’s a significantly different conception. That’s why Prema is considered much higher than Nishtha over here. So there’s 3 metaphors I mentioned about the spiritual journey, a trek, medical recovery, and a relationship. So now let’s focus for today on the idea of Shraddha. And as I said Shraddha, there are many different meanings of this word, and there are meanings at different levels.

And if we consider in this particular metaphor, Shraddha is just curiosity. Curiosity is positive curiosity. Like, somebody takes up a book for reading, They may have no intention to read the book fully, but even if you’re picking up the book, maybe there’s something worthwhile in this. Isn’t it? So that is the kind of Shraddha.

At this stage, it is simply positive curiosity or favorable curiosity. Now can there be unfavorable curiosity? Well, yeah, there can be also. Isn’t it? No?

This book is poisonous. You know, I wanna find out. I don’t want I wanna ban this book. So I’m reading this book, then I can find faults in it, and then I’ll ban the book or I’ll burn the book. So there can be unfavorable curiosity.

You know, if a parent has a feeling that, you know, this particular my child is a friend with this particular child, and this child is a bad influence for my child. Then the parent may spend some time with the child, but that is unfavorable curiosity. You wanna find out maybe reasons why my child should not be spending the time with this child, and how can I find reason that I can that will make sense to my child also so that I can tell my child? So there can be unfavorable curiosity also, but here it is favorable curiosity. Maybe there is something worth exploring over here.

So that is Shraddha. And this is a fundamental difference in the various traditions of the world. That broadly speaking, the religious traditions of the world can be categorized into 2, dharmic and Abrahamic. Now this is not necessarily a watertight categorization, but the dharmic traditions are what we call as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity. Not Christianity.

Sikhism. They are focused more on principles. Like, in Buddhism also, they they don’t use Dhamma. Dhammapada is one of their sacred books. So they focus they’re more principle centered.

Whereas, the principle are there in Christianity also, but they are more more history centered. Okay. This particular person came and this particular person was the savior. Whether it is Moses in Judaism, whether it is Jesus in Christianity, whether it is Mohammed in Islam. So these are more principle centered.

Dharma is a principle, and these are more principle centered. These are more history centered. It’s a broad separation, and there are similarities, no doubt. But specifically, these traditions begin with a call for faith. Faith is very, very important in these traditions.

Now because the faith is required for all traditions, and that is true to some extent. But in the dharmic traditions, it is a call for curiosity. So although the word Shanda use is similar and Shanda is sometimes translated in English as faith, it’s not exactly the same. At least this understanding of Shasta Shanda. It is not that believe that there was God.

See, many Christians may start their outrageous, believe that Jesus died for your sins. Not all Christians may start like that. But that is, like, a very central tenet that Jesus came and died for your sins. And you accept that Jesus died for you, that you will be freed from your sins. That is the idea of Christianity.

Now this is not a comparison or even a criticism of Christianity. This is just a emphasis on what is the starting point. It is not It’s curiosity. Maybe there is something of value out there. So that curiosity is what begins the spiritual journey.

You could say curiosity involves an element of faith, but it is not that it the faith is not the central thing. It is okay. I’m gonna learn. So now how does this this starting level of Shraddha come about? Now can this Shaddha be translated as faith?

Of course, it can be translated. But and it is offer Shaddha frequently in the world is faith for it. But faith itself can have very different implications. Here the implication is more not believe that there is God and God is good for you. Oh, that could be true, but right now, just be curious.

Be open minded. See explore if there is something more to life. So now how does this straddha come about? That initial curiosity. So Ramanacharya in his Shri Bhashya commentary on the Vedana Sutra, there’s the first sutra has a very elaborate commentary and there are sub commentaries by subsequent acharyas also in that tradition.

There are almost 100 pages of exposition that how does this Brahmajigyanasa come about? For many people, it sometimes just doesn’t come. I have a friend in Russia. He was telling me once he was giving a class, and he said, you are not your body. And one person raised his hand.

He said, yes. If I’m not my body, then whose body am I? So the idea that we have an identity separate from the body, That is just not comprehensible. Am I someone else’s body? What is going on?

So for some people, you may also inquire you may also see if you try to share spirituality with some people. It just doesn’t seem to make any sense to them. So some people, it will make sense, but they turn away from it. But for some people, it just doesn’t make any sense. So this this that openness, that curiosity, how does that come about?

So at one level, we can say it’s a mystery, but there are various factors. 1 is, of course, past life actions. So that Shanda can come from so what believe it or not. Chakravarti Bharti talks about this is Swabha vikki. Swabha vikki means that the person has that swabha from a previous life.

So if somebody has explored some spirituality previously, they have been on the spiritual journey. If they had completed it, they would not be in this world at all. They didn’t complete it, so they were in some way like yoga yoga from the previous life. They had done something in the past, and that’s how they have some interest now. And we will find that there are people like this.

It’s yeah. There’s one disciple. He, you know, he grew up in 19 sixties America. And 19 sixties America was a very interesting phase in, human history for various reasons. There, it’s it’s in relatively recent human history that was the first generation that had ready made prosperity, that you didn’t really have to work.

Of course, there have been phases in human even history when there is prosperity. When I’m talking about literally modern times, the when the Europeans went to America, there are many generations when they had to fight. Of course, they did brutalities over there, but they fought. The wilder wild frontiers were there. There are many movies made about these Americans going exploring the frontiers.

But then after the 2nd world war, America had relatively progressed. Geopolitically, it had become a formidable power. It had become wealthy. So these young people, they already had the basics of life. What the previous generation that worked hard for or dreamt about, oh, I should have my own house.

I should have my own family. My kids should go to a good school. We should not have any financial worries. We should live in a safe locality. What many people across the world even now struggle for, that is a generation that had it all, basically.

And yet people were unhappy, profoundly, existentially dissatisfied. So this is Ravindra Suruprabhu. He is that, you know, when he first came to, Hare Krishna talk, somehow he just came over there. His friend said, okay. There’s some nice food over there.

So some nice food can be the source of. It is actually. But from my also, you can go toward. But, anyway, he heard the class, and the devotee was saying, this world is a place of misery. Now for most people when we they hear this, why are you being so pessimistic?

Isn’t that the most common response? Don’t be so pessimistic. But his response was, at last someone is speaking the truth. You know? He said that he despite all the comforts, he had had a difficult childhood, and he says this and he said whoever I’ve seen, nobody seems to be happy in life.

Everybody’s acting as if they’re happy. Everybody’s acting as if they get get this or that, it will make them happy. They’re not happy. So now this conviction to get, the first time you hear that, that signify there’s some level of spiritual growth already there. So, basically, that there is something beyond this visible glamorous world.

So it requires some some level of spiritual inclusion to be able to grasp that. So some people may have it swabha vikki. Just from their previous life. Now that shraddha, sometimes it can come also from the present life association. Now that means you can say that Shaddha does the Shaddha come from Sadhu Sangha?

Well, Sadhu Sangha is the next stage, but it is that you you can use the word sadhu in different senses. Like Prabhupa is like somebody might not be a devotee, but they may say that, hey. I went to the Discon Temple. You know? It is a nice place.

Better check it out. And that person may not become a devotee. Like, the person who brought Prabhupada to is Guru Maharaj, that person didn’t become a devotee. But that person did bring Prabhupada to Guru Maharaj. So it is sometimes the kind of people around us.

It may be our parents have told us, you know, say many Indians when they go to America, their parents tell them, you know, okay. You should go to the find some temple over there and go to the temple regularly. Don’t forget your culture completely. Don’t forget your roots. They’re concerned about that.

So I say, okay. Let me find out a temple over there. I might just go to please my parents. But then they find a youth group over there, and they get interested in that. So it is our present life association also.

But, ultimately, it is a mystery. There is a element that in the spiritual awakening so this you can say in the stage of spiritual awakening. Now it is a continuous state, as Bhakti Rudhakur says. It’s a gradual incremental process, but in that spiritual awakening, there is a part that is rational, and there is a part that is mystical. So rational means you can say, okay.

You know, I went to that particular class, and I’m the class made sense. That’s why I decided to go more for further ahead. And there is truth to that. But there might be some other friend of us who might just feel as logical as we are. That person also comes to the class, but that person doesn’t take it.

So there has to be something that calls something deep within our heart, something which awakens, resonates. And so so there is a mystical element to it. So this is the what mister Chakravarthy talks about as a krupa over there. So that mystical element of mercy or whatever we want to say, that is not in our control. But to whatever extent it is there for us, you know, we can ask ourselves explore what is it that triggered my curiosity.

We say, just a friend invited me to come. That’s why I came for a program, and then I liked it over, so I came for a camp. And then I came. Camp was where it was really transformative for me. K.

Whatever it is. So that’s the stage of Shraddha. So from the Shraddha, the sadhu sangha starts happening. So when we feel this is maybe there’s something of value over here, Then we start exploring what is going on over here. What are these people actually doing?

So how many of you have questions at this particular point? I’m trying to decide. Should we have about half an hour more? So either we can have questions for half an hour or I’ll complete Sadu sangha, and then we can have questions for about 15 minutes. 1, 2.

Okay. 3. Now you don’t have to raise your hands by force. Okay. Fine.

So we’ll I’ll just try to take, talk about Sadu sangha briefly. If you’re not able to complete, then we will continue Sadu sangha tomorrow also. K. So now I said that it is not that we give up shraddha to go to Sadhu Sangha. It’s like a step.

We build on that. Which Radha, we come to Sadhu Sangha. Okay. Maybe these people have something of value. Now when we use the word sadhusanga, it can be talked about at various levels, and we can talk about a very exalted level, like.

That just a movement of association of a devotee can lead to all perfection. And there is truth to that. No doubt. That is the potency of associating of devotees. But here, we are focusing on sadhu sangha specifically in terms of this journey.

So how does spiritual association contribute to our spiritual growth? So there are many ways, but if we consider, I’ll focus on 3 distant aspects of spiritual association. That through association, In general, when we are going to explore something, it is that so why do people do anything? That there is a lot of, study of human behavior nowadays. It’s always been there, but now this human behavior is a study as a part of psychology for the purpose of marketing.

You know, many companies are interested. What will make a person buy something? What will make a person not buy something? So they they want to basically control people’s behavior, and that’s why they try to figure out what it is that triggers people’s behavior. So now from that perspective, there are various factors that can trigger a person’s behavior.

So gen I’ll talk about it from 3 different perspectives. If we consider desires, desires are generally thought to be linear. Linear means what? See, I am here and some object is here. So this is a sense object.

So linear. When I see an object, when I perceive an object, I get the desire for that. And our scriptures are filled with that. Saw a particular scene that triggered a desire. Vishwamitramuni heard just the jingling of an ankle bell, and that triggered desire.

So the see means generally sees of a user metaphor for any sense contact. So, generally, we think of desires as linear, and that is true. No doubt. But the important thing is desires are not just linear. They can also be the technical psychology call is mimetic Mimetic.

But simpler word would be triangular. Now you have have you heard this word called memes? There are social media memes. Like, there are genes. There are memes.

Memes are there’s ideas that replicate very fast. Like, this has become a meme on social media. It keeps growing. So, anyway, that’s that’s psychological theory. I won’t get into that.

But triangular desires means what? Say, if I am here and there is a object here. Now when I encounter that object, I may or may not desire that object. But if there is someone else who has a strong desire for that object and I have interest, this person has the desire, and I have some appreciation, some trust, some respect for this person, then seeing that person desiring that object or enjoying that object will trigger my desire. This is often the logic for companies seeking endorsements.

Isn’t it? That when some new phone comes up, that if Apple makes a big advertisement, oh, our latest smartphone is our best phone. Okay. That’s your phone. That’s what you’re always going to say.

But then maybe they get some Bollywood they get some Bollywood actor, they get some cricketer, they get some influencer. This is the best phone that I’ve ever used. Oh, hey. I wanna buy this phone. That’s endorsements.

So, basically, desires are often triangularly triggered. When I had first gone to Australia in 2014, so one devotee had invited me to their house for lunch. And then they said, for dessert, we’ve got baklava. Anyone of you know what is baklava? Baklava.

Okay. All of you are wonderfully ignorant. Anyway, I was I was I also didn’t know what is baklava. Baklava is basically an Arabic sweet. Now to the Indian ear, baklava.

The name doesn’t the name itself doesn’t sound very sweet. So I said, maybe later. And there’s another devotee with me who had also come for lunch. He’s a local Australian devotee, and he said, yeah, I would like to have. So then I was talking with the host and the baklava kid, and this devotee was eating baklava.

He’s closing his eyes and relishing it. And I saw him. Can I also have 1? So there was no linear desire, but there was triangular desire. So quite often, desires are triggered in a triangular means.

And there’s one more significant difference over here that desires often the linear desires are triggered for rajasikthics. But for sattvic things, things in Sattva, often we need triangular desires. The you know, if somebody’s passing by a hotel or somebody’s walking by a clothes shop and there is some fashionable manic queen, then, you know, we just see that’s so attractive. I want to eat this. I want to dress in this.

I want to buy these clothes. So often rajasik objects, the direct desire often gets stimulated. But in how many people, for example, see a Bhagavad Gita and say, oh, I want to read the Bhagavad Gita. You know, we distribute Bhagavad Gita as it is, and people keep Bhagavad Gita as it is. Isn’t it?

Unfortunately, many people, they treat the Bhagavad Gita like a object of religious piety. Like, I have something on my altar. I have d t on my altar. I have bhagavad gita also on my altar. I’ll offer a flower every day, but I’ll not offer my buddhi.

So the idea is but if we meet some devotees, we meet some friend who is really the bhagavad gita, who is alive with the bhagavad gita, who is getting so many insights. So he’s so excited about it. Okay. What is there in this book? I want to know more about the book.

So quite often, the desires for sattvic or spiritual objects, they are not triggered linearly. A desire for prasad may be triggered, and that’s fine. But, you know, it’s it’s like, say, even if you see some devotees dancing in kirtan, you may see them dancing in kirtan, and maybe you see it on TV, some festival. You say, okay. These are interesting people.

But we may not ask or get a desire to dance. But if we actually come to a kirtan and we see some friend, that friend is dancing, we say, what do people think of me? What have I become a religious lunatic now? But then they pull us in, and then we may start dancing. So what happens is the dancing is normal, but religious dancing is still seen a little weird by some people.

So it is quite often, the dance the spiritual desires are triggered in association. So one aspect of how association affects is that through association, there is the triangularity of desire that is stabbed. So now all of you have come over here, and now some of you may be feeling tired. Some of you may be see may feel you’re feeling sleepy. Maybe you’ve taken a meal and you’re feeling heavy.

But if you see everyone is attentively hearing the class, the person next to you is hearing, maybe the person next to you is making some notes, Then what happens is, okay, maybe I should also maybe there’s something interesting over here. Generally, with respect to question answers, now very few people ask the first question. But if one person asks a question, and then you find, okay, the speaker use a reasonable answer, the speaker is very heavy and gives a dismissive answer. Thank god I was not the first person. But what happens is if we see others asking questions, then we also get the desire to ask questions.

We feel maybe I feel safe. Maybe I can ask a question also over here. But the idea is, generally, sattvic desires are triggered in association. So the triangularity of desires is tapped by association. So that’s one way.

So here and association has many glories. And now we’re talking about the generic glory of association I described in Shastra. I’m talking about how association works in this stage. What comes after association is? Sadhu sangha is bhajana kriya.

So we are talking about how sadhu sangha will take us or can take us from shraddha to bhajana kriya. Okay. Why are these people having this, bag handy hanging around their head? What do they do with it? Oh, they chant.

Why do they chant? And you see everybody chanting, and maybe we’ll also try to chant. Let me see what is there in it. So that’s how as example of sadhu sangha taking us from that curiosity to some personal practice. Bhajana kriya.

So we will talk more about bhajana kriya in tomorrow’s session. This is one way. That is we get our desires stimulated in association. Our desires get activated. The activation or the stimulation of desires that arises in association.

And now that that is a very significant part. Now apart from that, association can also give us intellectual comprehension. It can give us intellectual understanding. So why? Because we can ask questions that okay.

Why do people do all these things? So one is just seeing others doing things we get we get the desire. Seeing people do it, but, specifically, it is an association. It depends on how we are entering the association and how their association also welcomes us. That can we ask questions?

This is something which Prabhupada emphasized a lot. He said, we don’t want our temples to be just places of worship. We want our place temples to be places of higher learning. We want temples to be like universities. So, you know, from say a material perspective, you could say that this temple currently is not very impressive.

Of course, it will manifest, but, you know, how many temples in India can say that there are so many young people who come there to hear philosophy? No. Probably there are less than a dozen temples like that in India, isn’t it? So there are there are many people who may come for worship, but what Prabhupala said is okay. This should be a place for education.

So this is one of the key things. It is an association that we get understanding. We get comprehension. And that understanding, comprehension, clarity, that is important. Otherwise, it is like, oh, these people do this thing nice.

You do this thing then you go away. Like, many people have priests. You know, okay. I got a wedding ceremony. I want a child, or I have this thing in my shoe.

This I want to do the shanti for this particular element. So you go to priest. You call the priest. You do some rituals. Some people ask some questions.

Okay. What does the ritual mean? What does that ritual mean? But most people don’t care for it. Because they say, okay.

That is your business. You do it. I just want my problem to be solved. Isn’t it? So there is there is not much curiosity that is triggered over there.

That’s why many of our devotees, when they do some priestly activities, they always many of them, they try to ensure that they give some at least some brief talk over there. It may not be general lecture on philosophy, but at least explaining what is being done over there. And many people appreciate that. Say that we never knew the priest like this also. So that’s then, okay, if somebody’s doing a wedding ceremony.

And then, okay, what does the what does this mantra mean? What does this ritual mean? You know, that time people’s some people are just they wanna have fun after the get the rituals over. But there are people who are still some amount of gravitas is there. They wanna know what is going on.

So the idea is that sometimes if the association has happening with a foundation of curiosity see, the curiosity is not there, then what happens is even if the sadhus try to give instruction, people not be interested. Like, many temples in India sorry. I mean, in India and this is happening outside also, that for many Indians, when they go abroad, initially, they wanna enjoy in the west. But after that, the West is too alien. It, like, it’s just too strange, too too much culturally unfamiliar, and they want something which is culturally comfortable.

So they come to the temples, and there are temples in which if you have a initially, what happens is that there was one place I had gone in Australia. That one day, Odi had started a new center over there. It’s not official. But it’s a place where there are lot of Indians living. So what had happened was there was, like, Aarti, and for Aarti, the whole temple hall was full.

And then my class started, and it, like when I sat down for the class and and then started because it’s still like going on. People were looking here and there. I finished the prayers, and, like, only 10% of the people were there. I look at the devotee the devotee of the organ. No.

They’re not afraid of you. Don’t worry. So he said people had no interest. People had interest in the Aarti, the cultural aspect, but the classes are not very interesting. People don’t have the conception of classes.

Then there is, okay. I just wanna feel good, be a part of something. People just don’t have the interest in hearing. They don’t even have the habit of hearing. They don’t even have the most people come to the temple.

You remember, god is the means, and the world is the ends. So most people don’t come to a temple to hear about God. They want God to hear about them. Isn’t it? God, I have this problem.

I have this problem. I have this problem. Don’t you know how big problems I have? When are you going to solve it? Please do something now.

So people are not interested in God. So then even if the opportunity for sadhu sangha is there, if the curiosity is not there, the sadhu sangha will not benefit from it. But it is association that that comprehension can come. That comprehension oh, okay. This is how it makes sense.

And so, basically, if there is hearing and before hearing, there is some seeking. And the person doesn’t have to be like a spiritual seeker out, but some curiosity has to be there. So curiosity, there is hearing and then there is understanding. And the last aspect is that association also provides us an environment and ambiance. We need a setting in which we can practice.

Let’s say, if you come to a youth program and you like it, you like the chanting. But after that, you go back to the hostel and nobody there is interested in spirituality, nobody is interested in chanting. He feel I’ll be like the odd person out over here. You know, once it happened in one one city or one hostel, you know, there were 2 boys who had come from 2 different places, and both of them had been introduced to Bhakti before, but they didn’t know the they didn’t know that they had been introduced that the other person was introduced to Bhakti. So what happened was that both of them felt, you know, what is very important to think of me if I’m a giant?

So both of them would wake up in the morning, and under their blanket, covering, they would chant. And both of them was hoping that the other other person is not noticing what I’m doing. So both of them were pretending as if, you know, I’m sitting and sleeping. And then once this the the one of them, he got up and he wanted to go out. He wanted to use the washroom.

So he went out, and his other devotee started chanting a little louder, but he’s chanting very softly. And then he went there, but the place was crowded, so he came back quickly. And he came back, and he just opened the door, and he heard this dude dancing. He said, what are you doing? Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. No. Tell me.

What are you doing? Then this devotee fell a little sheepish, You’re a little embarrassed. Actually, I chant. Oh, you? I also chant.

So the idea is sometimes if we don’t have association, we don’t feel we have the environment to do what we want to do. So association can provide us a supportive environment. If we have a youth center near our temple where near our college where we can have supportive support association that provides a supportive environment. That’s wonderful. But even if we don’t have that, we might have 1 or 2 friends who come together.

Nowadays, devotees can chant online together, or, you know, at least sometime in a week, we can come and stay in the youth center, whatever. Association provides us the environment. And without that environment, it is going to be very difficult to sustain the bhajuna kriya. So the way I I talk about this association, I said, it is like if I consider there is Shraddha. Now Shraddha is important.

But from Shraddha, if somebody has to go to bhajana kriya, that is the next step. And now this is sadhu sangha. Now as I said, we are talking about sadhu sangha only in a very limited sense. Sadhu sangha is required throughout the stages of bhakti. It’s an integral part.

Even pure devotees want to associate with each other. Is described. Even great devotees, they delight in talking about Krishna. But we are talking about sadhu sangha here specifically as it brings about this transformation from curiosity to, you could say, commitment. That I commit myself to chant the holy names.

I commit myself to wake up in the morning. From curiosity to commitment, this journey, how does it bring about? So I talk about these three things. There is the ace acronym, the activation of desires by the triangularity of desires. There is the comprehension of the concepts, the comprehension of the practices.

We can ask questions. And there is the environment. So when we have these three things, when association provides us these things, so this is more like, see, we have an emotional side, we have a rational side, and we have a social side. So I said that this study happens nowadays about how people buy things. So we have an emotional side.

Oh, I feel like doing this. That’s that the desires are activated. We have a rational side. Hey. This seems good.

This makes sense. And then we have a social side. So, generally, this emotional, rational, and social side are taken care of, then people feel confident about doing something. It feels good. It makes sense, and others are also doing it.

So let me do it also. So this is how the sadhu sangha takes us toward bhajana kriya. So I’ll summarize what we discussed today. So I discussed mainly 5 points over here. The first point was about spiritual growth.

Spiritual growth happens initially for us. The world is very big and God is small. But what happens? The world becomes small and God becomes big. That is the essence of spiritual growth.

So we will talk about 3 metaphors, journey in the form of a trek and recovery of health and a relationship. So I discussed various aspects. So in each of these aspects, we discussed some aspects. So for example, from the journey perspective, we discussed about how these 9 stages could work. That how curiosity okay.

What are these people going to do? So talking about means becoming fit so that we can do the activity, then we fall in love with nature. So like that, with respect to the recovery aspect, we discussed that we get the personal conviction even if somebody says, oh, this is this. There are those studies proving this and this or that. So our our becomes personal conviction.

So in each of these metaphors, I focus on particular aspects. And let’s not elaborate on that. You’ll come too much of a detailed summary, but we discussed these 3 metaphors. Then after that, I focused on as one stage. Is basically favorable curiosity, And it has a rational aspect to it.

How is that curiosity coming out? The rational could be from the past life, we have some inclinations, or from the present life, we have some associations, some inspiration. And there is a mystical side to it. How exactly it happens in people, we can’t know. And then I talked about sadhu sangha.

So I’m reducing this 5 points to 3 points, basically. So in the sadhu sangha, we sadhu sangha has many glories, but we focus specifically on how sadhu sangha can actually take us from curiosity, ashaddha, to commitment. I will do this. What what do you people do to I will do this? So we discussed about the ace acronym that it gives activation of desires happens through association.

Then c was comprehension. We start understanding things, start making rational sense to us. And then also, there’s an environment. And in this way, we become inspired to go on the spiritual journey. So thank you very much.

Are there any questions or comments? Where is the mic? Okay. You can ask. I’ll repeat the question.

Do we have a mic? Okay. You can speak otherwise. But I am little bit, curious about to know that in Bhakti rasamriri Sindhu, that section, jiva Goswami comments, Shraddha has, firm faith in Shastra. How to reconcile both of this?

That’s definitely true. See, I am explaining this from the perspective of our lewd experience. Rupa Goswami, jiva Goswami, they are writing books at a particular time for a particular audience. If you see, at the time when, say appeared. So they say, oh, the world was so degraded at that time.

People were so fallen. Now what is the what is their perspective? What is fallen people? Fallen people is oh, you know, people chant the names of Vishnu only once a year or where there’s an eclipse. People read the Bhagavatam, but there is no bhakti in their Bhagavatam.

People go to temples, but they only worship Shasti and other goddess, and they don’t worship Krishna. So now we say, if I’m going to a country where people read Bhagavatam without Bhakti, people read Bhagavatam. That’s very impressive, isn’t it? So if you consider the concept of degradation at that time, it at least the initial followers of Mahaprabhu, they had a very clear specific mission. See, you could say that was the time when Islamic Islamic ruler in India was, quite bad.

Nawab Hussain Shah was no tolerant ruler. Akbar was there. Akbar came a little later when the Goswamis were there, but soon after, Akbar Aurangzeb came and he was terrible. Babar was, no tolerant ruler. So they could have talked about how terrible the situation was.

So but they had a particular focus at that particular time. See, Mahaprabhu is traveling all over India, but it’s like if somebody comes from a more nationalistic kind of background, you know, now that that nationalism is becoming more awakened after the building of the Ram temple, Then all the atrocities that were done against, the Sanatana Dharma during the phase of Islamic rule, that is becoming more and more prominent in Indian consciousness now. But the way Mahaprabhu’s tours are described, he goes to North India, he goes to South India, like, in almost at least a decade of travel, there are only 2 encounters with Muslims. So, like, the Muslims are almost like a background presence where some incidentally, there is some interaction. Now was that the reality?

Well, that was Mahaprabhu’s lived reality. So, I don’t want to go into how exactly to reconcile. You can go into that if somebody had that interest. How what are the description of reality, and what are the Islamic political reality. So, but simply speaking, Muslims, you know, they they were some of them were very intolerant, and they just destroyed temples at will.

But many of them, they decided to settle in India. And they realized that these people are too many to all be killed or converted. So many times they would just let them do what they want as long as they pay some extra taxes and they are subordinate to us. So that’s how much of dharma still went on, although big temples suffered. And that’s why Mahaprabhu did not ask any of his followers to build temples.

In Vrindavan, he said recover the places and build temples over there. That was because, you know, the the those swamis very experienced in dealing with Muslims. But in Mayapur, he did not tell anyone to build any temples. So there is a way to reconcile that, but my point is they’re talking in a particular context over there. So, yes, Shraddha.

Can it refer to a faith in Shastra? Of course. But if you see how Prabhupada explained Shastra sorry. How Prabhupada explained Shanta in his classes. The pro what Prabhupada says, oh, you know the Hare Krishna chanting on the street.

What are they doing? What are these people doing? So Prabhupad explained shasraddha many times in terms of favorable curiosity. So at that time, it is like faith in shraddha was a given. It is you see, when we have the Bhagavad Gita course, actually or no.

We do the device course, but we do a Bhagavad Gita course also in temples. We actually don’t teach the Bhagavad Gita. It’s our Bhagavad Gita course is a pre Bhagavad Gita course, Because the Bhagavad Gita doesn’t really have to go about establishing the existence of God or the existence of karma. People need that today, isn’t it? So we cannot If we start taking Shraddha as firm faith in Shastra, then if that is the beginning stage for spiritual life, how many people have that?

Isn’t it? So most people will be unqualified to even start the spiritual journey, Isn’t it? So it’s at that point, at that time, it was not just India. In the West also, Bible was accepted as authority. In the Middle East, Quran was accepted as authority.

The times were like that, that in scripture was accepted as a source of authority. So you could say at that those times, Shaddha would mean okay. Shasta, I have faith in scripture, but then the curiosity, what is the actual teaching of scripture? For that, say, if you see Indian philosophy apart from Buddhism, Jainism, Charvakism, all of them accepted the Vedas as a source of authority, and different thinkers had fierce debates about what was the meaning of the Vedas. The 6 systems of philosophy, nayam, imamsa, vaiseshi, all of these, they all accept the authority of the Vedas, but they fiercely debate what do the Vedas mean, what do the Vedas actually teach.

So in that sense, in that context, curiosity would mean, yes, I accept Shastra, the authority, but what is the meaning of Shastra? What is the actual teaching of Shastra? But in our context, curiosity would mean that, okay, is there something out there which is a reality? Okay? Any other questions?

Hi, Krishna Prabhu. Like in the medical recovery metaphor, you explained that suppose we have a disease and go to doctor and he gives us prescribed medicines and toxins come out. So you compare that toxins, to the, then like, the we have. And sometimes, it may also, burn us from inside. So how to tolerate that, like, transcending from stage to stage, the which are coming out?

Well, I appreciate your for. Can we wait till we come to those classes? Yes. Because we are going to have full classes on the topic. Thank you.

We need some intellectual understanding that how the process is working. So if the doctor prepares us, you are going to go through this phase. A doctor can help us get some pain medication or whatever. Doctor helps us prepare. That’s how we can also be helped to people.

We’ll talk about it more. Okay, ma’am. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions?

Keep behind. Hey, Krishna. Can you relax? You can sit down. Prabhu, I have one courage about the culture.

God is 1 in the world. Yeah. Feel God is more than in the world about different different culture. So please give me these answers of this. So if god is 1, why there are different cultures in the world?

Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. God you feel god is more than in the world in another culture.

No. God you can sit down. Thank you. See, Bhakti Vinod Thakur talks about it in Chaitanya, Chaitanya, that while God is 1, cultures themselves evolve according time, place, circumstance. So what do you mean by culture?

Culture could mean dress. Now different places, different dresses are more comfortable to wear, isn’t it? So some places very hot. So then particular kind of dresses are more comfortable. Some places are very cold.

So now the dhoti is not very comfortable to wear in very cold places. You can wear that, but you have some inner inner wear and something like that to protect yourself. So, basically, different places, there are different clothes. They’re comfortable. So if you consider culture, then that it was according to the clothes evolved according to that.

Food also is different. What is available over there? What is tasty over there? What is preparerable over there? So so there are historical, geographical, basically, local factors which determine culture to some extent.

Now, of course, because of globalization, there are certain aspects of culture just spreading all over the world. But even then, there are many things which are particular to that particular place. And when people travel you know, people say if somebody goes from America to Italy, they don’t go there to eat in Big Mac. McDonald’s is there in America also. McDonald’s is in Italy also.

But they when they go there, is there some Italian dishes? Is there some Italian ambiance? So cultures evolve differently at different places. They call it various factors. And god is big enough to manifest himself through whatever cultures have evolved at whatever places.

So based on that, the specific revelations may be tailor made. So certain things may be more emphasized in particular places. Certain things may be less emphasized. So god is 1, but god reaches out to different people according to where they are at. So if we consider a mountain, so the top of the mountain is spiritual consciousness.

The bottom of the mountain is material consciousness. So now we can go up the mountain from one path. We can go it from up another path. We can go it go up by 3rd path. We can go up by a 4th path.

The key point is we should go up the mountain. So now some people say all paths will take you up the mountain. Well, not necessarily. Some paths may take you down into a valley also, isn’t it? Some paths may just take you round and round the mountain, isn’t it?

So we can’t say everything that is taught in every culture will take people to God. That’s definitely not true. So every culture has some aspects to it, which are more satvik, which are more reflective, which are more conducive of developing higher values. So within different cultures, there can be parts by which people can go to God. But there within each culture, there could also be things which take people away from God.

So we have to, look at the particular culture and within that see what is pro devotional and what is anti devotional. Okay. That’s one question over there. Yeah. Hare Krishna, Pravoji Ganal Pranam.

Pravoji, I have 2 questions, somewhat related to this discussion. So so first is that, Prabhuji, like like, we see, when, lord Chaitanya Prabhu, he has appeared here 500 years ago. So, so he was distributing Krishna Prima so very much, abundantly, like, compared to what we are experiencing or, like, just before that. So what is the, I mean, factor means well, like, which is deciding that, that who is that much fortunate to get that, that mercy and who is, like in satya yoga, we see that, like, people who show, like, meditate for so many years and still they don’t get. So what is the factor, Roji?

This is my first question. So So what is the factor that determines whether some people receive mercy and others don’t? Well, it is not that Krishna is withholding mercy from anyone. Krishna is giving mercy. Now when people will say it is that in the satyuga people would meditate for a long time, but that doesn’t mean that if they meditate for a long time, they’re suffering in the meditation.

It was if people are in a sattvic disposition that even meditation is enjoyable for them. See if somebody is very raja sick then meditating is like a big tapasya. I wanna do something. How long can I just sit and utter a mantra? But if somebody is sattvic, they start enjoying the meditation also.

So when they say that they would have to meditate for a long time to attain God, it was not that they will suffer for that much time. Time. They would enjoy that austerity also, and sometimes their enjoyment will become a distraction. So it is not that Krishna made himself very difficult to attain for people who are more qualified, and Krishna makes himself more easy for people who are less qualified. It is not that Krishna is being partial.

Krishna is simply being reciprocal. So in the past, people were more punyuan. They’re not necessarily spiritual. That’s why they said that there could be many many Munis. But among the Munis, So even there could be great sages who were liberated from the physical cravings, but still they may not necessarily so they were sattvic.

They were also spiritual, but they may not be devotional. So, basically, whatever time, place, circumstance it may be, the person has to exercise the free will to turn towards God. That principle is always there. See love has to be a voluntary choice of the heart and if somebody is making that choice they have to do some exercise. They have to put in some effort to show that they’re actually making the choice.

So in satyuga, our capacities are less, so we have to make less effort. But still, that effort doesn’t seem less for us. It is difficult. And in Satyuga, also people had to make effort. At that time, their capacities were more so they could make more effort, and that that that was expected of them.

So, essentially, Krishna wants to give his mercy to everyone at all times. But at the same time, Krishna also wants Krishna doesn’t want to force his love upon us. He wants us to show that we want it so that we have to reciprocate through our actions. Okay? Thank you so much, Progyny.

My second question can I ask, bro? Yes. So my second question is, Progyny, like, we see that, like, you discussed that that that people, having linear desire in the rajji things and sattva, triangular desires are there. So, like, like, how to decide, like, which things are in the the rajsik and sattvic and the the tamasik platform? Which things are in which platform?

It depends on the overall environment that they are in. It depends on also what kind what is happens to us when those desires are triggered. So, generally, we could assume that the world we live in is broadly rajasik. So if you’re studying in school and college, you’re working in a camp working in a company, then if somebody asks us to come for a party where there is drinking. Now maybe drinking is always there in all parties nowadays.

Okay. But, you know, in some places, there is, like, some parties where there is some event and then there is drinking by the side. But some parties, the main event is a drinking. Is it there are 2 different kinds of parties also. Like, sometimes there may be a corporate celebration might be there or the corporate event might be there.

So sometimes there are some charity funds, which are some char some charity gatherings are there. So their drinks are inside. But some teenagers gather when there’s nobody at home. They get them they get them together. That’s only drinking.

So you can say, what is likely to what are the main activity over there? What is the kind of effect it has on me? So sometimes people go to go to a party. They may take some drinks, but the main thing is, you know, they’re talking with people. They’re developing relationship.

They’re doing some networking over there. So that’s a different kind of party than somewhere. Some people are just drinking and they’re getting intoxicated and completely losing themselves. So we can see broadly what is the effect on others and see what is the effect on us likely. And based on that, we we are trying to understand this is whether this is likely to be Rajasik or Satwik.

So we can’t just use the word party generically and say that it is going to be Tamasik or it is going to be Rajasik. So, generally, it is. Look at the effect. Okay. So okay.

Okay. So there’s 2 questions, and we’ll stop with you. Thank you, Prashant. Harikshanapuru. My question is, is about decision making.

What triggers us, to make a decision about the right and wrong. And when we make a decision, we feel a great deal of anxiety. And sometime, sometime because of wrong decision, we feel guilty. Sometime we have to choose between right or wrong, good or bad. So whatever we make and the choices is about whichever part, whichever, way, suddenly we have to pick our So we don’t know where our comes from.

So we just suddenly we have to act on it. So is the is, we made or we are just act on it? Who make the I mean? Okay. So I’m regretting that I made the decision to give you the mic.

No. I’m not. Just joking. So the thing is that, decision making, there is a rational aspect to it, but there is also an emotional aspect to it. Krishna says.

So our mind is associated with the emotional aspect. The buddhi is associated with the rational aspect. So generally, from a rational aspect when we consider, there are 3 factors we consider, yamouli speaking. There’s the content of what we are doing. Okay.

What am I going to do? Then second is the consequence of what will result by this. And then there is the intent. Why am I doing this? So broadly speaking, these three factors are involved in the decision making.

So intent maybe is a normally I would not do this, but for your sake, I will do it. That means I don’t really care for this activity, but I care for you as a person, and therefore I’m doing it. So my intent is not so much where we are going. Like, a parent may have no desire to on their own, you know, play some game with them. But the child wants the parent to play a game.

The child the parent plays the game. That is what I am doing is not important, that I’m spending time with my child. I’m pleasing my child. That is important. So sometimes the intent is important.

Sometimes the consequence is important. Like, say, if I’m taking medicines, you know, I may not like the taste of the medicine. I may not like the the discipline that I have to follow when I’m doing that treatment, but then the result is good. So I do it. Sometimes it’s the content.

You know, this is what I’m expected to do. This is just my job description. This is just my responsibility. So so it could be that intent, content, and consequence. These are the 3 broad factors.

And different people, based on their particular nature and situation, may prioritize 1 or 2. 1 one of these one or the other among these. So there are whole ethical theories about which is most important. Is consequence the most important thing to consider? Like I mentioned, There it is basically I’m saying the consequence is more important.

But there are whole 3 theories what which could be the most important among these. So when we make a decision, we may not consciously think of all these things. We may do it less below the consciousness, we just say, you know, for this person, I will going to do this. You know? This is good for me, so I’ll do it.

This is just what I’m expected to do. I need to do this. So intent, content, consequence, these could be the factors. So these are at a if we consider the rational level, we often consider these things. Now at a emotional level, when we make decisions, often it is based on our raga and vesha, our likes and dislikes.

So now these 2 are not entirely different. Say, because of my like because I like this person and the fact that I get an opportunity to work with this person in this particular service, although I don’t like the service, the fact that I’ll get to work with this person, that’s why I’ll do the service. So you could say that the likes may play a part in our intent or dislike. You know, somebody doesn’t overall like to do exercise. But I dislike exercising, but I dislike being overweight even more.

Or I don’t dislike being overweight. I dislike being called overweight. So so whatever it is, then I may do some exercise. I may follow some diet. So our likes and dislikes can also affect what we prioritize.

The intent or the content or the consequence. So decision making is a complicated process. Now, specifically, where does the decision come from? If I consider the soul is here, the soul has these two resources, the buddhi and the mana, the mind and the intelligence. And the soul gets inputs from both, and it is for the soul to decide.

Now in some people or in some situations, you could say, it may be that the buddhi is so big that the mana, you just don’t care for it. Like, not at a conscious level again. Like, say, a mother may be very tired after a whole hard day’s work. But if a newborn baby starts crying at night, mother may not feel at all like waking up. But, dude, this is what I have to do.

No matter how I feel, I’m going to wake up and take care of my baby. So sometimes that’s that’s my responsibility. That’s what I’m expected to do. I have to do this. This is what being a mother means.

So that is the buddhi being very strong. Sometimes it could be the other way. The buddhi becomes weak and the mana becomes very strong. So there, what happens is that, you know, it’s like somebody we have to do a service with someone, and we just don’t like that person. You know?

What is the service? Doesn’t matter. My answer is no. It’s like either dislike is so much or the like is so much sometimes. You know?

Like, sometimes you may see in movies, you know, somebody is, like, infatuated with someone. You know, whatever that other person asks, okay, whatever you ask, I’m going to say yes only. You know, it’s like, people just the like becomes so much that the intelligence doesn’t matter at all over there. So that’s how sometimes people can get misled. People can get exploited also.

So broadly speaking, the mind and the intelligence are like 2 consultants for the soul. And we could say the decision you could say over here, the reason, the logic, the reason, the rational part comes from the mind, from the intelligence. The emotion part comes from the mind. Now from this combined unit, the intention comes. Largely, you could say the intention is coming from the soul, because the soul is the actual source of energy of consciousness.

Without the soul, nothing will happen. Mhmm. So the soul is making the decision, but sometimes it is that either the mind could be so strong or the intelligence could be so strong that it is not a consciously made decision. It is just that this is the way things are. So the soul is considered to be the decision maker, and that’s why it is the soul that is held responsible for the actions.

It is that we the principle of karma is we are held responsible for our actions. So we means the soul. But specifically with respect to our decisions, where where is the decision coming from? It is ultimately coming from the soul in one sense. But specifically, in some cases, the mind may be so strong that sometimes we get angry and we speak certain things and then we don’t even remember what we have spoken.

And then somebody recorded what we spoke and they play the recording. Did I speak that? How could I have spoken that? That can’t be me, but it’s my own voice over there. And it’s so sometimes we may not even be aware.

So the it’s like almost the mind’s impulse just becomes our default decision, and then we do it accordingly. So that’s also a possibility. And then if we feel generally, if we feel ourselves second guessing our decisions, then that’s either the mind or the intelligence. One of them was very prominent in making the decision, and the other part is now pulling us back, making us think again. So if we just did something based on emotions, then the intelligence will say, you know, you didn’t really think this through.

If we made the decision only based on reason, but we didn’t consider emotion, then the logic might all be there, but some part of us, you know, hey. This is too difficult. Maybe you should not have done this. So, ideally speaking, we need to engage both reason and emotion. So that will lead to the soundest decision.

Or if we base make a decision based on reason, somehow, we need to bring the emotion also along. Otherwise, the decision cannot be sustained for very long. Okay? So we’ll have the next question in the next session, if you don’t mind. I don’t want to go too much over time.

So thank you very much.

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Hare Krishna. I’m grateful to be here with all of you today. We are discussing the Srimad Bhagavatam, where this is the longest description of Krishna’s pastimes before those pastimes are described in the 10th canto. So in this session, I’ll broadly talk in 2 2 characters in bhakti. We’ll talk about the 2 characters who are having this conversation, 2 aspects of bhakti, and then 2 approaches to bhakti.

And all this is related to bhakti. And the overall theme that I’ll discuss is how bhakti empowers us to face injustice. The lie the world is filled with many things going on wrong. And here, we have 2 characters who are meeting in the forest. Now if you consider the setting, at one level, the setting is scenic.

They are meeting in the forest. It’s peaceful. It’s lush greenery. There is a peaceful wind blowing. There’s a sanctified atmosphere.

But at the same time, the backdrop may be scenic, but the background is tragic. The backdrop is where they are meeting. That backdrop is beautiful. But the background of both these characters is actually tragic. Both of them are royalty.

Who are the 2 characters we are meeting discussing right now? Uddhava and Vidura. Both of them are royalty. Vidura might not be royalty enough to inherit, but still he was born and brought up in royalty. He has lived in the kingdom.

Neither of them have actually lived in a forest for any significant amount of time. And now both of them have become homeless. Both of them have faced terrible adversity. Vidura has faced insult. And throughout his life, he has been trying to give good advice with the but the just did not listen.

And finally, it came to the point where Duryodhana insulted Duryodhana terribly just before the war. And that was to be expected in one sense. Duryodhana was his temper was coming to a boiling point. But if we consider Dhrashtra here, Vidura was higher in the moral sense, not in the sense of political power. Duryodhana is here.

Now, when Duryodhana insults Vidura, those words hurt him. But what hurts him even more is the silence of the Dhrashtra. You know, when we are accused of something terrible, something which we would never do, and when our friends who know us well, they don’t stand up to support us. I know this person. He can never he or she can never do such a thing.

You know, somebody who accuses us, that hurts us. But the harshest words of our critics don’t hurt us as much as the silence of our friends. And that sense of abandonment, almost betrayal, that Vidura is carrying it now. He’s left. He’s come to the forest.

And in contrast, now if you consider what has happened to Udhava, has seen something unimaginable, something so horrifying. The whole the whole Yathu dynasty has been destroyed. Krishna himself, he has seen, depart from the world. Now Krishna has solaced him with wisdom, the profound wisdom of the Uddhav Gita. And yet, there is that sense of what has happened.

How could something like this happen? Just there’s there’s everything, and suddenly there’s nothing. I was talking with a close friend of mine who is a expert in Gaudiya history. So he is trying to write a book on Gaudiya Vaishnav history. So, especially, he’s telling me after the Gaudiya Math split.

It is there were devotees, ordinary brahmacharis, staying in the Gaudiya Math. And one day, the spiritual master departs, and then they think a civil war breaks out. One day, there’s a flourishing mission, and the next day, people are at each other’s throats. He says, what happened over here? So he found this devotee, and the devotee just left and went and stayed in his village and just continued his preaching over and built a small temple there.

Nobody knew about him, because he just left. The point is everything is working, and suddenly everything departs. So what happened is shocking, but how swiftly it happened makes it even more shocking. So now, of course, both of them have had some time to process this. Still, it is in the shadow of that event that both of them are waiting.

And what are they doing over here? They are taking shelter in the remembrance of Krishna. Both of them are talking. It’s interesting the dynamic over here. Although Vidura is senior, and normally if he comes to come in front of our seniors, the seniors should speak and the juniors should listen.

But here, Vidura is listening from Udhava. Two reasons. One is that Udhava is closer to the Lord. He’s always been closer to the Lord. And second, Vidura wants to ask Udhava the Lord’s whereabouts.

So Udhava is speaking. And both of them are here taking shelter in the remembrance of the Lord. And they’re describing various pastimes. So the vision here it is lilaatpatrena, that the Lord, when dangers were faced, and they’re remembering, what are the danger? Govardhan lila.

At one level, it is a great danger. All the vrajwasi faced annihilation. To use a word very much in political circulation today is, Indra was attempting genocide over there. He was trying to destroy the entire village. And not just a small village, it was flourishing.

So he’s just trying to wipe out everything over there. And his anger was so indiscriminate. You could say it was not even genocide. You can call it like omnicide. No.

Not just human beings kill everyone over there. The floods were indiscriminate. So Krishna just protected, them, almost. Here only the only the like a child, while playing, does things. So they are remembering how the lord has protected his devotees even amid far greater danger than what we have faced right now.

For neither of them, there’s a threat to life. Of course, there are pains far greater than the pain of losing one’s life. But the point is they’re taking solace in the remembrance of the Lord. So this is the overall theme of the Bhagavatam, that the world, many things will go wrong. And we, if we are looking at the world alone, if I am here and the world is in front of me, if I’m looking at the world alone, there will always the world will have ups and downs, ups and downs, and those ups and downs will keep making me go up and down, isn’t it?

So these dualities outside, we’ll call dualities inside. And that is why it is vital that our vision shift toward the Lord. So essentially, both of them are showing that their world has been devastated, but they are sheltered in the Lord. In one sense, we can say, what is the difference between, say, a neophyte devotee or somebody who is just a really pious person, religious person, not a very devoted person, and somebody who is deeply devoted? So we can say that for most people, the world is very big.

And God, if he exists, is very small, isn’t it? See, when I was introduced to Bhakti about 30 years ago, I had this zeal of a new convert. Spread with them. Tell everyone about it. So I told my uncle about about Krishna.

He said, yeah. I believe in God. He’s happy there. I’m happy here. So the idea is God often feels irrelevant for people.

The world is the big thing, and God, if he’s there, is the small thing. And even if God is there, it’s like God is the means to the world, that, oh, that we pray to God so that we will get something from God. I was in Varanasi a few months ago, and I saw our temple. I don’t know whether I still can’t process whether it was a joke or that it’s real. It like, outside a small there’s a street side Hanuman temples.

A small Hanuman temple. And that is written. So the idea is God is a means to an end for us. But as we grow spiritually, the world becomes small, and Krishna becomes big. And when the Lord becomes big, it’s not just the Lord becomes big, but also the world becomes a means to Krishna for us.

Krishna is the more important thing. And if the world is not there, we will just directly focus on Krishna. So this is essentially spiritual advancement. Krishna talks about this. This is 7.16.

So for for the distressed and the wealth seekers. The world is very big. The world is causing me some problems. Please relieve me from these problems. Or I want to get some pleasures in this world.

I need some resources. I need some money. Please give that to me. The world is what is important. But 7 19 is what?

That Krishna is everything. Whatever I desire in the world, actually, all of it and much more is provided if I can just immerse myself in Krishna. And this may take lifetimes of evolution. So we could say this is the stage of a seeker. This is the stage of a seer.

So now where are Vidura and Uddhava on this stage, this spectrum? They are seers. Their world has fallen apart, but both of them are sheltered in the Lord. The the Lord is big for them, and okay, in this world, dualities will come and go, but they are not shaken by it. So these are two characters whom we are discussing.

Now let’s look at 2 aspects of bhakti. So in bhakti, Krishna tells Arjuna, for example, ma manusmarayudhicha. So Prabhupada translated bhakti as devotional service. So we could say that the various aspects of bhakti could be put in terms of there is remembrance, and there is service. Now you could say remembrance is more internal.

Service is more external. Our remembrance is in our inner world. Service is what we do externally. Now bhakti can be practiced in multiple combinations. Normally, the standard way to practice bhakti is there is remembrance inside, and there is service outside.

So we see the gopis, they do that. That they are going about their daily work. They are even they even have their day job. They are going out to sell the. They are selling butter and curd and milk.

And when they see some customer coming, they’re filled with so much remembrance of Krishna that instead of, oh, curd, butter, they say, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, go in the So they are remembering. They’re filled with remembrance, but they are also doing service. So when Prabhupada translated bhakti as devotional service, he his emphasis was that it’s also practical activity. Prabhupada writes in the nectar of instruction that bhakti, he says, is not is he said it is not imaginative ecstasy. Imaginative ecstasy.

Oh, I’m imagining. I’m seeing Krishna, and I’m ecstatic. I’m visualizing Krishna. That’s wonderful. He doesn’t say it.

Not as it is, it’s sentimental speculation. You know, I wake up one I wake up and, you know, I think Krishna came in my dream last night. Okay. Did he actually was it a dream, or was it really Krishna who came in the dream? Was it just my imagination?

So Prabhupada Prabhupada’s mood was, this is not that important. Its substance is practical service. So now, this is not to downplay the importance of remembrance. We’ll talk a little bit about the history of Gaudiya Vaishnavism and how things have evolved in the history to understand this dynamic. But broadly speaking, there is outer remembrance and inner service.

So Krishna says, ma manusmara yudhyaca. Ma manusmara is remembrance, and yudhyaca is service. Now, there are extreme situations when one may be able to do only one thing. So, for example, when there was a war, if you consider the Kurukshetra war, at that time, there is no evidence, as far as the Mahabharata goes at least, that the Arjuna was fighting and shooting at us. Hare Krishna.

Krishna. Krishna. Krishna. Hare. Hare.

Ram. Ram. Ram. Ram. No.

War is a serious business, and war means you have to pay attention. It’s a it’s a matter of life and death. So we have to pay attention to what we are doing. Now once I have one devotee, he was driving to Vrindavan, and there’s a there’s a number of ecstatic dories. He was singing kirtans.

And, you know, he became too ecstatic without paying attention to driving. So I said, Prabhu, you know, I want to go to Rindavan, but not so fast. So in the world, there are real stakes, and we have to pay real attention. So now, was Arjuna remembering Krishna at that time? Yes.

We’ll talk about various aspects of remembrance. But there, the remembrance was in terms of the purpose. I’m doing this all for Krishna, that if you look over here, the face may be towards the world, but God is much bigger. When we are to we are to fix we have to function especially in responsible roles with very high stakes, then we have to pay attention to what we are doing. So at that time, the remembrance may go a little bit in the background.

That does not mean we are not remembering, but remembrance of Krishna is not the priority. The priority is getting the thing done properly. It is ultimately for Krishna’s sake. We have the same theme, if you go back over here, that in his childhood, one devotee recently asked me this question. He said, I’m very disturbed.

I said, what happened? Now what disturbs devotees is also very interesting. So he said that Arjuna is a pure devotee. Arjuna should be seeing Krishna everywhere. He said, but in Drona’s gurukul, when that pastime comes that Drona wants to have them all shoot a target.

So there’s a bird image, a replica of a bird, and you have to shoot the eye. So he asked various characters, and he asked Arjuna, what do you see? So what does Arjuna say? I see I don’t see the trees. I don’t see the forest.

I don’t see the sky. I don’t see even the branches. I see only the eye of the bird. So he said, oh, why doesn’t he say I see only Krishna? Are you going to shoot the eye of Krishna?

So at that point, his see, remembrance is not like a very superficial thing. Remembrance is he’s he that is his dharma. He has to take responsibility to shoot. So remembrance of Krishna doesn’t necessarily mean Krishna has to be the only component of the consciousness all the time. Krishna should definitely be in our consciousness.

If you consider this to be our consciousness now sometimes, Krishna may be the major component in our consciousness. Sometimes it may happen that in our consciousness, Krishna is there, but the the dharma that we have to do. It may be in the case of Arjuna, shooting archery. Somebody’s driving through a crowded, complicated road. Focus on driving.

Somebody’s doing a surgery, and they’re a heart surgeon. And they say, okay. I’ll chant Hare Krishna when you’re doing surgery. That’s good, but you should do the surgery also properly, isn’t it? So at that time, our dharma dharma is also here dharma is not religion.

Dharma is duty, the right responsible thing for us to do. So that may be prominent. It is for Krishna. At the same time, that has to be prominent. So there are situations when the there may be service, and there may be less remembrance.

Now Krishna, he starts from 12.8, and he goes in this direction. 12.8, 12.9, 12.10, 12.11. Basically, 12.8 is. So just he says, let your mind and intelligence be absorbed in me. If you do that, it is not that you will attain me in the future.

You are in me right now. You are immersed in me right now, Krishna says. So if he says that’s not possible, then So if you cannot immerse yourself in me, then practice remembering me. So he gives us a so you can call this you know, this is like the ladder of grace Krishna is giving. He’s giving multiple levels.

If you can’t do this, do this. 12.8 is absorption. Just be absorbed in me. If absorption is not possible, then there is concentration. But generally, the difference between absorption and concentration is absorption is effortless.

Concentration is effortful. But I’m concentrating on this. And if somebody says, what are you doing? I’m watching a movie. I’m concentrating on this movie.

Well, if you’re concentrating on the movie, that means the director did not do a good job. The movie should absorb a person. Of course, we don’t want to get absorbed in such things. But the point is absorption is meant to be effortless. Now Krishna says, if you can’t do that, This is concentration cannot be there, that’s a contribution.

Work for me. Do some seva. So this is both of these are more internal. This becomes more external. Even if you can’t can’t, focus the mind and heart on Krishna, at least engage in Krishna’s service.

In 5:11 is described as the yogis with the body, with the mind, with the speech. And even if this is not speech intelligence. These are all there, and this is even. So there are different ways in the acharya in which the acharya is ex commented on this verse. One is that they’re talking that if this verse we say refers to bhakti, it comes in the karma section.

So the conventional commentators say this refers to karma yoga, but it can refer to bhakti yoga also. If it refers to bhakti, what it means is that bhakti is so inclusive that even our senses can be engaged in Krishna’s service. But it is said that if one is not yet at the level of detachment, so if Manasa and Buddhi are not gone in, then at least engage the senses. So one could be seen this Indriya rabi, that could be seen as a concession for those who are not capable, or that can be seen as a glorification of bhakti. That bhakti is so great that even the senses which are normally considered to be pathways to bondage, they can be used for liberation.

The point is contribution. We act with our senses. And then Krishna goes forward. And then he says after that, if you cannot work for me, then at least work for some higher cause. So contribution to me, he says at one level, to Krishna directly.

And if not, then we can have contribution for something other than ourselves, for something bigger than ourselves, for some selfless cause. So in this way, Krishna is giving us a multilevel approach of how we can come closer to him. So there are situations when remembrance may not be possible. So now, of course, here what Krishna is talking about is 2 different things. Remembrance may be deprioritized for two reasons.

1 is the the situation. Situation means sometimes earlier I got an example. What is the responsible service that I mean? Situation is one thing, and so the circumstance, and the other is the capacity. Capacity means somebody is just not able to remember.

The other is the circumstance requires you to do something other than remembrance at that particular time. So both aspects are important. So this is go back to the upper one kind of pendulum is here. There can be sometimes service, but there may not be remembrance so much. Now on the other hand, sometimes there’ll be remembrance, but there’s not much service.

Now, in many ways, and I said I’ll go back a little bit with the Gauri Vaishnav tradition. The prominent image that became, idolized, that became considered idol of the Goswamis, for example. It is if you see, Mahaprabhu sent Goswamis for 4 very practical and tangible purposes. He didn’t send the Goswamis to Vrindavan to, oh, just dance in ecstasy and remember Krishna. That’s of course, that’s what we will do, and that’s what they did.

But he had very tangible purposes. What was that? Recover the holy places of Vrindavan. You know, build temples over there. Write books establishing the siddhanta of bhakti, and write books establishing the achar of a bhakta.

These are all serious tasks. And there is some indication of that. But if you see in the Shirdoswami Ashtakam, how some like, say, the spiritual master, Yaya Puja, is there, then what a disciple glorifies about the spiritual master also indicates what that disciple considers glories. The spiritual master may have many glories, but some glories attract particular disciples. Other glories may attract other disciples.

So in the it is the more world transcending aspect. That that part is there. But the emphasis is That whole mood of complete renunciation of the word. Now that’s definitely glorious, what they did. And it was not just at the time of the composition of this verse, but also before that when Mahaprabhu would ask those who are coming from Vrindavan back, how are the Goswami?

They say, they are so renounced. Every day they sleep under a different tree. They don’t want to get attached even to a tree. That is there. No doubt.

But somehow, when one thing gets glorified, other things get minimized. So the Goswamis, they were also doing a lot of service. Building one temple takes so much effort, and now we can say whatever be the problems politically, culturally today, they are far lesser than what they were at the time of the Goswamis. There was intolerant rule over there at that time. And to build a temple over there was far more difficult.

And they built not one, but many temples. And that too, to build a temple and to write a book, those are those 2 very different opposites. Building a temple requires very much external engagement with the world. Writing a book requires a lot of inner engagement with your own thoughts. And the Goswamis were doing both things.

So they were also doing a lot of tangible service. However, over a period of in the Gaudiya Vaishnav tradition, the image of the ideal Gaudiya Vaishnav became that one who is focused only on remembrance and not so much on service. And that is true. This is not to devalue it, but that is definitely important. But remembrance and service both need to go together.

Now when remembrance becomes there may be, again, situations when remembrance is again the same thing. Remembrance becomes more important than service. So for example, remembrance may be prioritized. So, for example, it could be because of circumstance. Circumstance means I was just in the eco village.

I met, Kurma Prabhu. He was telling me he’s writing almost a whole book. He was 1 week in jail. At that time, in Australia, if you go to stupid books, they’ll put you in jail. So he said, in that 1 week, I preached, and I want to he says, I have enough memories of that to write a whole book about it.

So it’s interesting. So the point is that sometimes with circumstance, you may not be able to do anything. Of course, in the jail also he was preaching. But suppose somebody is put in solitary confinement. Then at that time, circumstance may not allow us to do anything except remembrance, or sometimes capacity.

Some of the person may fall sick, and they just there’s nothing to do with it. Nothing they can do at a particular time. So, see, going back to this particular diagram, one devotee was telling me recently that this was in America. You know, a senior devotee was in a coma for a long time before he departed from the world. So he said that if somebody’s in coma, are they you know, can they remember Krishna?

That, you know, normally when a person departs, we want them to remember Krishna. So can they remember Krishna? So I said that normally, we require the body for our service. Normally, say, for us to remember Krishna, we need to come to the temple. Some people say, you know, God is everywhere.

Why do you need to come to the temple? Well, yes, that is true. God is everywhere. But that’s like saying, water is there everywhere in the form of water vapor. Just hang out your tongue, and quench your thirst.

Water is everywhere, but we can’t access it everywhere. Similarly, God is everywhere, but we don’t sense God’s presence everywhere. That’s why we need to come to a place where God’s presence is tangible for us. And that’s how our remembrance increases. So so normally, in one sense, we need the world.

Normally, we need the world to go toward Krishna. That means we need to go to holy places to immerse asankrishna conscious. We need to come to the temple. So we need the world to come towards Krishna. But if we have developed sufficient attachment to Krishna, then we don’t even need the body to remember Krishna, that the body may not be functioning, the brain may not be functioning.

Normally, consciousness comes through the brain, but the consciousness is not originating in the brain. So I was so when a person functions, normally, the consciousness comes through the brain and goes to wherever it is going, but the consciousness is not reduced to the brain. The consciousness can directly go towards Krishna if sufficient attachment to Krishna has been developed. So I was telling this, and one devotee told me that his mother, she was in coma, and they went and did kirtals at that time. And they could see that, although she could not respond because she was in coma, but they could see that it’s almost like she became brighter.

There’s no physical response. So it’s like at that time, the consciousness the body as an instrument. If we consider here, say, this is the soul, and this is the body. So normally, consciousness comes out as awareness. Sorry.

Consciousness, comes out as agency when we do things, and consciousness goes in as awareness. Awareness means we take in information. Agency, we do things. Sometimes the body may be so weak that there may be no agency. One cannot do anything.

But still awareness is there. So in that stage, if the kirtan is going on, if something or Krishna is going on, that consciousness will still receive. So sometimes, the point I’m making is, either due to circumstance or capacity, remembrance may be the only thing made possible. Service may not be possible. So bhakti is large enough to include only remembrance with practically no service and only service with no remembrance.

Now we could also make this a little more complicated and say that sometimes service itself is the remembrance. Like, seva dhyana is also a form of remembrance among the rupa dhyana, lila dhyana, nama dhyana, and seva dhyana. Service itself is a remembrance. And then you can say remembrance itself is a service, isn’t it? Prahlad is an example of attaining perfection simply through remembrance.

So there is this bheda and abheda in this. We focus on the abheda part. But now if there is no remembrance and no service, then that is a serious problem. So sometimes when we face difficulties, we may remember the Lord, and that’s all we can do. And sometimes when we face difficulties, we focus on service, doing something tangible.

So that will be the last part of the session. Now I said I’ll talk about 2 characters, 2 aspects, and then 2 approaches in bhakti. So this will be another 4 quadrant diagram here, that if there is bhakti and there is our theme is facing injustice. So we can face there’s bhakti, and there is no bhakti. And when injustice come, one accepts it.

Accepts it, and one the other opposite is 1, confronts it. Now, so we can accept injustice with devotion with Bhakti. We can accept injustice without Bhakti. We can confer injustice with Bhakti. We can confer injustice without Bhakti.

So we’ll look at 4 characters in the spectrum, and that will conclude the session. So broadly speaking, the example here is of Parikshit and Shringi. Now what Shringi did was terribly unfair, that he cursed Parikshit Maharaj for just a minor indiscretion. He certainly did did not require capital punishment. But he could have cursed him in any way.

He could have cursed him to die immediately, but he cursed him to die in 7 days. Why those 7 days? That was because he wanted Parisit Maharaj to suffer the pain of feeling powerless. See, if somebody is very powerful, then what happens is somebody has been very fit and healthy and stuff like that, then if they become sick, if they become paralyzed, then for them, death is better. Recently, one viewer told me that some movie come out of about the character who played Superman, Christopher Hughes.

So how he fell on a horse and he became completely paralyzed. And he was so frustrated that he was thinking that I cannot live like this. It’s going to end my life. But somehow he survived and then worked for helping creating foundation for helping others who were sick. But the point is for someone who’s been very powerful, very athletic, to be completely immobilized, to be powerless.

So he wanted him to suffer like that. That’s why 7 days you suffer and then you die. But then what did Prasad Maharaj do? He immersed himself in the remembrance of the Lord. And by immersing himself in the remembrance of the Lord, what happened?

He transcended. Now we glorify Parrishat Maharaj for doing this. At the same time, this is not the only approach in Bhakti. If we consider Arjuna with the Kauravas, in many ways, the Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad Gita, their moods are almost opposite. The mood of devotion is the same.

But, you know, we are sometimes in our moment, we use the word mood and mission. What is the mood and mission of Srila Prabhupada? So personally, I find that clubbing these two words together is sometimes problematic. The mission is 1. The moods can be many.

So the mission of Prabhupada is always Krishna consciousness, international story for Krishna consciousness. But Prabhupada had different moods at different types. So like that, the mission is always to serve Krishna. But how do I serve Krishna? The mood of the Bhagavatam is accepting.

The mood of the Bhagavata is confronting. Krishna tells Arjuna, you become an instrument for me in my fight. This these enemies are destroyed by my previous arrangement. Just arise and fight, oh Arjuna. So there are situations when confronting may be the right thing to do for a devotee.

Bhakti doesn’t just simply mean accepting whatever has happened. Now that is true. It is accepting, but accepting what? That tolerance. Tolerance is very important.

Now Krishna says, tamasatiksha subharata. But when it says tolerance, what what do you tolerate? Does Krishna imply that tolerate the Kaurava’s atrocities? If you tolerate Kaurava’s atrocities, that would mean Arjuna should not fight. But that is not the message.

So what we tolerate is important. This tolerance is that the pain of fighting against Bhisma and Drona. That these are So Arjuna says, I cannot fight against them. And Arjuna Krishna says, yes, it is difficult. But you are not just your body, and they are not their bodies.

So in the course of your duty, tolerate. So in a tolerance, before tolerance can be taught, Krishna teaches tolerance in 2/14. But before teaching tolerance, Krishna teaches intelligence. That is intelligence. Now, if there is tolerance without intelligence, tolerance without intelligence, that will lead to impotence.

Importance means that person has become powerless. So it is intelligence that tells us what is the big thing in our life. And it is intelligence that tells us which is the small thing. And then tolerance is what enables us to keep small things small, so that we can keep big things big. We can keep small things small, so that we can keep big things big.

So tolerance is not complete passivity. Tolerance is okay. There are many battles to fight in life, but which battle to fight when? I was in Australia, and one devotee in one temple, he comes regularly, And he’s a very intelligent devotee. He gives a lot of good feedback to my classes.

So for me, classes are not a matter of delivery. They’re a matter of discovery. I like to have discussions on the topic that I have spoken also. So many times if I asked Duvall what it’s like in the class, some people say, oh, the whole class was very nice. So this Duvall says this point was good.

This point was not clear. In this point, you need could have elaborated. So he said he came a little late. He was sitting behind. And then he said, dude, the class was wonderful.

He said, normally so that was the class one tolerance. So he said, normally in your classes, I get a lot of intellectual stimulation. But he says, today, I in the class itself, I got to practice the class. Now the class was a tolerance. I said, I thought, what do you mean?

You have to tolerate my class? Was the class so bad? Then he saw my face. He said, no. No.

What I meant was, he said, I was sitting behind, and there was a person sitting there right next to me. And this person’s phone was not on silent. And the phone was constantly beeping and ringing. And initially, I got very irritated. And I was going to speak strongly to the person, but then I remembered the class is about tolerance.

So so he said, I tolerated. But he said, you know, because I was tolerating, I couldn’t hear any of the class. So then I said, Prabhu, with all due respect now normally, if anybody starts a sentence with all due respect, that means what they are going to speak after that is not going to be very respectful. So I said, that is not tolerance. That is importance.

Now if you come for a class, then the big thing is hearing the class. The the small thing is, say, all of you are sitting on the floor now. Means now you’re not very comfortable sitting on the floor. But the class now might do over 6 hours, maybe half an hour more, 15 minutes more. So, okay, I can manage that much.

Sit on the floor, sit on the chair, whatever it is. So keep the small things small so that we can keep the big thing big. So the tolerance is not just accepting anything and everything passively. So the vision that Krishna gives for Arjuna, the big thing about the war was, oh, I have to fight against my relatives. I have to fight against Bhishma and Drona.

But Krishna’s words give him the vision. The big thing is you have to establish dharma. These people are adharmic. The key difference why did Parikshit Maharaj accept an Arjuna fight, or why did Krishna want Arjuna to fight? Because Shringi was not a serial criminal who was going to grab power.

Shringi was not a repeat offender who was going to become the king. The Kauravas had been had proven themselves to be repeat offenders, and not the slightest remorse. Now, Karana, when he suggested the drishrobing of Draupadi, a horrendous thing, that is a good example of a good person being spoiled by bad association. But to his credit, he regretted. To Bhishma and to Krishna, he said, no.

What I did was bad at that time. Do you think Duryodhana regretted what he did? He regretted. He regretted that his plans were not successful. He did not regret that his plan was wrong.

His regret was and it didn’t work out. That foolish Purujan. He should have executed. He should have burned the Pandavas, but he got burned alive. He got burned himself.

So basically, the point is, it’s not that bhakti means always accepting. And bhakti does not also mean always confronting. It depends on the situation. It depends on what is the big thing and what is the small thing. So let’s go back to this.

And now let’s take 2 examples of somebody who accepts without bhakti and somebody who conference without bhakti. So here are the examples of Dhritarashtra and Pandu. Now you could say life it is not that Pandu was unfair to Dhritarashtra, but life was unfair to Dhritarashtra. What was how was it unfair? That he was born as the eldest son, but he was born blind, and so he couldn’t become the king.

So he says life is so unfair. You know, generally, if there is a king, they have this whole concept of a heir. Heir is the person who’s going to be a successor. And normally, what happens is that, now, inheriting the kingdom is a big responsibility. So something can happen to the child, So a king often has more than one child.

So what happens is there’s the heir and then there’s the spear. So now the spear is in a very peculiar predicament. The spear has no chance of becoming the king unless the heir dies. But the heir is also your brother. You don’t want your brother to die, but you also want to be the king.

So there is in UK, we still have a monarchy. And there so they they still have a monarchy. So there is a person, one of the, princes who could not be the king, who has a spare. So he’s written the whole book called The Spare. So it basically he’s complaining, my life was so difficult.

His life was so comfortable. But, you know, he was like, oh, I could never be the king. So the point is, the Trishra was supposed to be the heir, but he could not be the heir. Now Bandu became the king. And as far as the Mahabharata’s record goes, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that the Dhritarashtra ever had any bad feelings towards Bandu.

It was now, because in Dhrastra, he had a respectful brother. His brother was respectful. His wife was very supportive. So although life treated him badly in some ways, it treated him well in other ways also. And he more or less accepted his situation.

So he never had any devotional inclination, but he accepted the situation. However, what he accepted, the next generation did not accept. So if you consider Duryodhana with the Pandavas, he didn’t have devotion, but he tried to confront. And his confrontation was to try to destroy the Pandavas. And in trying to destroy the Pandavas, he went from bad to worse to worst.

Nowadays, there is a very prominent leftist approach to studying our traditions. So some people some person has written the book, Duryodhana is a good person, but Shakuni spoiled him. Actually, if you see, Duryodhan tried to kill Bhima without any help from Shakuni. So not as a good person who became bad because of Shakuni, he was a bad person who became worse because of Shakuni. So the point is that with with without devotion now what happened?

Dhrashtra, he was, you could say, passive. And Duryodhana was aggressive. But both of them eventually what happened? Both of them went on the side of Adharma. So if there is no devotion, then what happens?

Whether we accept or we confront, both will only create problems. On the other hand, if there is devotion, then whatever we do, whether we decide to accept this situation, I’ll accept it. But this I can’t accept this, I’ll confront it. Both can be auspicious. So if you consider Srila Prabhupada’s example no.

If you consider Srila Prabhupada in Jhansi and in Juhu, in Jhansi, he had a project. He had a temple. And when the very people who were supporting him started sabotaging him, so Prabhupada accepted over there. Okay. He said, let me leave from here.

But in Juhu, who did Prabhupada accept? Prabhupada said, if he wants to steal Krishna’s temple, he will have to go over my dead body. Prabhupada wrote in a letter to a life member. So here Prabhupada confronted. Now we could say there are circumstantial reasons.

Jhansi was not a very big city. The people there were more religious than spiritual. They were more pious than dedicated. And Prabhupada also did not have followers at that time for whom he wanted to build a temple. He had come back to Mumbai.

Mumbai was a very important place. He had followers to whom he could do enormous preaching. So we could say there are different reasons circumstantially. But the point is, sometimes Prabhupada accepted the situation and just moved on. Sometimes Prabhupada confronted the situation.

So bhakti can have different approaches. It’s that. But the key point is we have to have bhakti. So that too I’ll conclude now with these two aspects of bhakti. When I say bhakti is remembrance and service.

So when we are facing injustice, so what would this mean for us? So when somebody has treated us badly, so what do we do at that time? So the remembrance is that Krishna is in charge, That Krishna has a plan. And Krishna’s plan is operational. So remembrance is not just, oh, Krishna exists in Randa when Krishna is playing his flute.

And Krishna doesn’t even know what is happening in my life. It’s not like that. Whatever is happening in my life, Krishna is in charge. Krishna has a plan. And then once we have that, when we chant Krishna, when we remember Krishna, it is not just an escape way for us.

Oh, the world is filled with problems. I just remember Krishna and I forget all my problems. That’s one way to look at it. But that’s under under utilizing the benefit of Krishna consciousness. Is Krishna consciousness meant to remind us that Krishna is in charge?

Whatever is happening, Krishna has a plan. And then the next question comes, that what is my part in Krishna’s plan? It is not that Krishna just has a plan. Krishna has a plan, and Krishna has a part for me in his plan. So that is where we have to be prayerful.

With devotion, with affection. We should not it it should not become You know, whatever. If you’re filled with resentment, if you’re filled with anger, you’re filled with frustration, it’s then that will not come. It’s not that just because people are doing bad things to us or bad things are happening to us, that doesn’t mean Krishna is no longer in charge. Krishna is in charge.

And when we say Krishna, please engage me in your service, that is the mood of our chanting now. Engage me in your service implies something, that there is a service for me. That there is a higher plan happening over here, and within that plan, there is a role for me. There is a service for me. This is not just a philosophical truth.

This is also a psychological truth. Philosophical truth means as the jiva is always a part of Krishna. Psychological means that we have a part in Krishna’s plan. That is the conviction we should have. That words should not just be used to beat Mayawadis.

You know, it is that I have a psychologically, it should uplift us. Okay. Then we try to pray and understand what is the best way I can serve with this situation. Now for that we may have to consult devotees. For this we may have to pray.

For that we may have to deliberate and analyze. The Pandavas had Krishna next to them, but still with how to deal with the upcoming war, they had to go through a lot of iterations. They tried to negotiate multiple times. Krishna himself went to negotiation. When that didn’t work, they were trying to accept and work out a reasonable solution.

That didn’t work. They had to confront. So exactly what will happen, what we will do, there is not going to be, like, one right answer. Do this, and you are a devotee. Don’t don’t do if you don’t do this, you’re not a devotee.

Sometimes a devotee may confront a situation. Sometimes a devotee may accept a situation. So for example, there are we all hear terrible things are happening in Bangladesh. Now what can we do about it? We say, I can’t do anything about it.

That does not mean we become apathetic. Now we pray to Krishna. We focus on our devotion. And our devotion, our devotional intensity may lead to some change over there. But somebody will say that, no, that’s not all that I want to do.

Then they may decide, okay, we want to create some Kshatriya forum. We want to have some political advocacy. We want to influence others. So accepting or confronting, both could be valid approaches for dealing with wait. For serving Krishna, you know, there is in bhakti, with what is my part, there is, in one sense, both certainty and uncertainty.

Now Visishila Prabhupada, when he was in America, he said, I see temples. I see them filled with devotees. Yes. Only time is separated. But then Prabhupada also said, when I landed in America, I didn’t know whether to turn left or right.

Isn’t it? So there is certainty. Prabhupada had the conviction. This is Krishna’s plan, and it will work. But specifically, at this point, should I do this or should I do that?

There is Prabhupada’s would try different things. Some things worked. Some things didn’t work. So So Prabhupada re strategized accordingly. So what is my part?

We had to prayerfully evaluate. And the more we get connected with Krishna, the more the remembrance is not just stronger, but sweeter. When we have that faith, Krishna, you are in charge. When the remembrance is stronger and sweeter, then the service will become clearer for us. How we can function in the world playing the part that Krishna wants us to play so that we can eventually come to him, come closer to him and come to him ultimately.

That is the guidance that we will get. So I’ll summarize what I discussed today. Our topic was facing injustice with bhakti. That how can bhakti be a resource for us to face injustice? So I started by discussing about 2 characters, How both of these characters, Uddhava and Vidura, both of them, they are in a scenic setting, a scenic backdrop, but there is a tragic background.

Both of them have faced enormous adversity, and both of them are taking shelter in remembrance of the Lord. They’re remembering how the Lord has protected others from dangers far bigger than what we have faced. And then we talked about 2 aspects of bhakti. So the 2 aspects are remembrance and service. And we discussed that among these, this is the best.

We do have remembrance and service with Ma’am and Usman and Yudh Thecha. But sometimes in emergencies or exceptional situations, emergencies are exceptions, whatever it might be. There may be only service without remembrance, and this could happen because of circumstance or capacity. The person doesn’t have the individual capacity or the social aspects. So same thing.

The social aspect may restrict a person from doing something, or the personal, the individual aspect may limit some capacities. Now this is definitely the worst which you want to avoid. So now remembrance and service, how they can both go together. That we discuss in the last part. It is 2 approaches in bhakti.

So 2 approaches in bhakti is, when we face injustice in our life, there is bhakti and there is no bhakti. And we can face it, accept it, or we can confront it. So we discussed Parikshit with Shringi as accepting, and Arjuna with the Kauravas as confronting. And why the difference? Because the Kauravas were serial offenders, and they were in power.

So they had to be checked. That’s what Krishna wanted. And then we had the Dhritarashtra with Pandu. He accepted that. He was blind and he couldn’t become the king.

Now Duryodhana, with the Pandavas, couldn’t accept. So he became aggressive. But either way, without devotion, what will happen will be inauspicious. With devotion, what will happen will be auspicious. So now should we accept or should we confront?

We’re talking about remembrance means Krishna has a plan, and service means that I will play my part in that plan. Now determining that part will take some time and effort, but as long as is there, we’ll be able to find out. It’s not that Krishna’s plan always means that we have to just accept and tolerate. We discussed that. 1st, there is intelligence in 213, and then there is tolerance in 214.

So it is intelligence that tells us what is the big thing and what is the small thing. And then we tolerate the small things so that we can focus on the big thing. So Prabhupada tolerated in Jhansi when he was told to leave. Yeah. But Prabhupada did not tolerate in Juhu.

So both are included in the ambit of bhakti. And we pray to Krishna, and according to our particular situation, we act in a mood of devotion. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. Are there any questions?

Yes, Mataji? Do we have a mic? Hare Krishna. Thank you, Prapuji, for enlightening class. My question is regarding Bhagavad Gita 12.12 words, where Krishna asked 12.12.

12, okay. Where Krishna states that hierarchy that better than knowledge is meditation and better than meditation is renunciation of all fruits of the activities. So here, is it applicable for a practicing devotee? Because in the previous verse, Krishna said that if you are not able to follow the principles, then you follow this hierarchy. And, it does the knowledge here meditation here refers to remembrance and renunciation of the fruits of action refer to service?

It’s probably the most complicated verse in the Bhagavad Gita. You asked as a question here. Okay. So, I think it’ll be difficult to answer here, because first I’ll have to explain the words. I’ll have to explain what is the problem with the words, our problem with the understanding of the words, and then I’ll explain what is the explanation for it.

But I’ll try to explain briefly. So if it is not clear, then maybe we can talk separately. Or on my website, spiritual scientist.com, there’s an elaborate answer to this question. But quickly, I’ll explain here. See, in the Bhagavad Gita, different terms have different meanings at different places.

Or rather, the same term has different meanings at different places. Like Krishna says, dharma samsthaapanartha here. So the word dharma in the Gita as 2.7 and, say, 4.8, there are different meanings. In 2.7, it’s prchamitom dharmasamudha cheta. That is individual duty.

What is the right thing for me to do? But Krishna says, I come to establish dharma. That is social order. But then, if you go to 14.2, that is nature. You’ll attain my nature.

So the words have different meanings. And in that particular verse, the confusion comes because the words seem to have many different meanings. So if you just go to that verse quickly. So the meanings in that particular verse does not refer to what we normally think it refers to. So this is the last verse in that particular sequence.

Remember, I talk about ladder of grace. There’s absorption, concentration, contribution. So contribution to some cause, contribution to Krishna. If you can’t contribute to Krishna, then contribute to some cause bigger than ourselves. And then below this, Krishna is saying, So now, gyan and dhyana, they could refer to gyan yoga and bhakti yoga.

Sorry. Gyan yoga and dhyana yoga. But in this particular context, there are many different ways in which different acharyas explain this. But in the continuation of this hierarchy, what Krishna is talking about is he’s basically what is the hierarchy Krishna is saying over here? Shreyo higanam abhyasad.

Shreyo higanam abhyasad abhyana gyanam vishashuddhi. So basically, what he’s saying is that there is abhyasa. Above abhyasa is jnana. Above jnana is dhyana, and above dhyana is sarva karma. Sarva fallat tyaga.

Is it? Yeah. Karma fallat tyaga. Sorry. Not Sarva fallat tyaga.

Karma fallat tyaga. So basically, let’s put it as tyaga over here. So now this particular hierarchy, it becomes confusing, because if we take to refer to 12.9, where Krishna has used the word. And he’s using 12.9 and 12.10 also. Then it becomes very confusing.

Then basically but if we consider abhyasa means simply action, that if a person is just doing ritualistic action, then a person is going through the motions. Okay. I have to do this pooja. I have to do this dharma. I have to do this.

Now, Krishna says, this better than ritualistic action is knowledgeable action. Krishna also tells the that when you are doing rituals, you know, why are you doing this ritual? You should know that Indra Puja, why are you doing it? Now, having knowledge is good, but if there is meditation, that is better. So for example, somebody’s celebrating Diwali.

Now what is Diwali? Like we said in the Christmas. For most people, most kids, Christmas is more about Santa Claus, and Jesus is like a background character. Isn’t it? So like that, for most people, Diwali is basically fun and food and firecrackers.

There’s not even awareness. So instead of just going through the motions, at least have some awareness. Knowledge should be there. What are we doing? But knowledge is there.

It’s okay. But after that, there has to be remembrance, absorption. When we are celebrating Diwali, we may know, but we know it only to tell others. But when we are celebrating, we’re just having fun. So better than knowledge is meditation.

But then so that means you could go through rituals, know the purpose of rituals, meditate on the purpose of rituals. But eventually, one has to come to the level of detachment. So the whole idea is, here, that one recognizes like, you remember I talked about the world being bigger and Krishna becoming bigger? So the world may be bigger, and I may remember, okay, this is also for that purpose. This is also for God.

But God is too small. But when do we become detached? When the world starts becoming smaller, and something beyond this world starts becoming bigger. So you in one sense, this is all at the level of karmakand. So this has not got nothing to do with gyan yoga or gyan yoga.

It is gyan within karmakanda. It is dhyana within karmakanda. But from karmakanda to come to the level of tyaga, that is auspicious. So in that sense, Krishna is saying, now after this, after one does karma fallatyaga, then Krishna says, don’t just be concerned about giving up the fruits of your work. Give the fruits to something else, some good cause, and ultimately, give the fruits to me.

It’s one thing to say I’m not attached to the fruits. That’s good, but the fruits can be used for something good. So be concerned about that. So that moves higher, and then we move towards from 12.9 onwards. So 12.11 onwards, the hierarchy goes upwards.

Okay? Okay. Okay. And one last question quickly. It’s behind.

Okay. Where did the mic go? Okay. There. Hi, Krishna Prabhuji.

My question is that you said, Prabhupada accepted in Jhansi and, he confronted in Jhansi. So how do we understand this in our case? Because Prabhupada was alone in Jhansi and he had devotees in Juh. So how do we understand? How do we understand means are you asking Like, in our case, in that case, what should we do?

Yes. In our case, what should we do? See, in Krishna consciousness, when I said this uncertainty, uncertainty can be seen as a reason for insecurity. I don’t know what to do. Or it can be seen as a gateway to adventure.

So it depends on our disposition. There’ll always be some uncertainty. We are finite beings. And you see, even when Krishna was with Arjuna, when Ashwatthama had done the horrendous wrong, Krishna did not tell Arjuna what to do. Krishna waited.

Let Arjuna, you decide. In one sense, Krishna was preparing Arjuna that I’m going to depart now, and you will have to act without my presence also. And Arjuna was able to act. After Krishna departed, he tried to take Krishna’s wife to safety, and then he himself took shelter in the Gita. But the point is that, bhakti is not about outsourcing our intelligence to God.

Because you may say, it’s like it it’s almost a catch 22 situation, you know. You should do God’s will. Otherwise, you are in trouble. But knowing God’s will is a big trouble. Then what should I do, isn’t it?

So it’s not that what we should do in our situations. If you say service attitude, service attitude, it basically means that we want to be a part of Krishna’s plan. Now Krishna is. And it is said, a devotee in 1213, So Krishna’s plan is the good for everyone. And the devotee’s plan, therefore, should also be the good for everyone.

Now what will be the good for everyone in what situation? That will depend. That is not something which you can very easily determine. So broadly, what I found is three factors considering it helps. Like, you have if you have a SIM in your phone, then you can call someone.

You have the phone, but you can’t call. Isn’t it? So we consider the situation. First of all, you have to consider what is the situation I am in. Srila Prabhupada, when he was preaching in India and the results didn’t come, Prabhupada decided, I’ll go to America at that time.

So we had to consider the situation to decide what is it that I should be doing. So in the 12th chapter in the 4th 18th chapter of the Gita, one of the factors that leads to success is Then we need to look at our inclination. What is our inclination? Now are we more of a confrontational person? Are we more of a non confrontational person?

Now it’s not that we have to give up our nature. Somebody who’s a confrontational person, tell them don’t confront. You know, they if they sit down to chat, why did I do something about it? Why did I do something about it? That will torment them.

Somebody’s non confrontational and you get them to confront, sit down to chant and they think, why did I get involved in this? Isn’t it? So each person has to decide what is anukul and pratikul based on one. The which means our our senses. So each of us has a particular set of senses, a particular kind of talents, particular kind of skills, particular kind of resource abilities we have.

And then lastly is our motivation. Motivation means how much are we invested in this particular thing? How important is it? That is. How much are we ready to fight for this?

So how important is it for me? And based on that, we can decide. So it is not one answer. That’s why I said, when it comes to serving Krishna, in bhakti, the principle of serving Krishna is fixed. But how to serve Krishna?

That will vary from individual to individual. And of course, we consult senior devotees. We consult our spiritual master if we have the opportunity or the spiritual master representatives. Ultimately, however, we have to take the decision. The spiritual master or the counselor cannot live our life for us.

You know, the spiritual master or the counselor are not living with our mind. We have to live with our mind. So we have to find what is the best way I can function in my particular situation. But they can give us invaluable inputs, sometimes indispensable inputs. But like Prabhupada said, ultimately, we have to fly our own plane.

So we have to find out how best can I move ahead in the particular situation I am in…

So thank you very much.

The post Face life’s injustices with bhakti- Chowpatty- Chaitanya Charan appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

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Right. Let me recap of what we discussed last time. This last time we discussed about how institution, in one sense or the other, has been a part of the history of our tradition. In the sense, we would call the parampara itself an institution. Sampradaya is an institution.

So if you consider any forum by which people can connect with Krishna as an institution, then a systematized organization by which it happens, then to some extent, an institution is unavoidable. But then we discuss also about how sometimes just because of the very nature of institution, some negativities do come up. How we can deal with those negativities? But today, I will talk about 4 visions with which somebody might approach, and I talk it from 2 different levels. If you consider a if you consider a mountain, so 4 and I was talking to 4 different things that’s like, you can look at it for 4 levels, and then we can look at it.

This is 4 levels and other could be. And if there’s a mountain, we can look at it. We can look at it from 4 perspectives. So 4 purse so 4 this is 4 levels. Levels indicate that there is a hierarchy.

That one is lower and one is higher, but these are perspectives. So perspectives are ways of looking. So, you know, if we want to if we want to, say, buy a car, we will look at it from the front. We will look at it from the back. We will go around it and look in all sides of it.

That is going around and having a a deeper perspective vision. A perspective can also include levels, but and they talk this is nonhierarchical. These are just 4 different ways of looking at things. So the class will be in 2 parts. 1st, we’ll talk about these 4 levels, and then we’ll talk about 4 perspectives.

Now, eventually, these it’s not that one level is related to one perspective. So we can have 4 levels into 4 perspectives, and we can go over to you can have 16 ways. And I’m saying this 4 you know, this 4 is let’s let’s look at you won’t go to all the 16 ways, but this gives you an under give some understanding of how things can be seen differently. And what I’m going to discuss is facial 4 11 in the Gita. That as people surrender to me, I reciprocate.

So it’s the principle of reciprocity. So in one sense, you have heard about reciprocal many times, but I’ll focus on one particular meaning of reciprocal. What we see is what we want to see. We put it back. What we want to see is what we are shown.

So vision is proportional to intention. Our vision is a function of intention. And b, there is a reality out there, and it is for us to change the reality to whatever way we can, but it is also for us to change our vision so that we can perceive a higher reality. So this is also based on 1515 in the Bhagavad Gita, where also Krishna says, I give knowledge, forgetfulness, and remembrance. So all this also, what does Krishna do this based on?

It is his reciprocating. If we want to strongly remember if we want we are serious about our Bhakti, then when some temptation comes in front of us, Krishna will give us knowledge and remembrance about the principles of Bhakti. Krishna will give us remembrance of Bhakti, and then he will give us a knowledge where we can increase our focus in on Krishna, and thereby, he will give us forgetfulness of that particular temptation. Conversely, if our intention is reciprocating with primarily our intention, if our desire is to enjoy sense objects, to enjoy materialistic pleasures, then what will Krishna do? Based on our desire, Krishna will give us that remembrance will become stronger.

And then we will he will give us forgetfulness of the resolutions that we have made, of the principles that we want to hold sacred. And then he will give us the knowledge how we can go about indulging. Maybe even indulging in a way that we get that doesn’t harm our image publicly. We can still have that facade of being a good devotee while doing other things. So, basically, the point is reciprocity is a very dynamic principle, and this applies to vision.

So the first part, four levels. So one of the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita to put it in the more scientific terminology is that reality is state specific or more specific or more precisely, our perception of reality is state specific to our particular state. And by state, we refer to the modes. So, basically, if we consider, you know, we could be in Thomas, Rajesh, Satwa, or should the Satwa. You know, I increasingly prefer the words Sattva, Rajas, Tamas, the Sanskrit words instead of the English words, because like every language, English also keeps changing.

And more for most people nowadays, the word passion has acquired a very positive connotation. They discover your passion in life. What is it that you want to do in life? The thing that you will feel passionate about, that’s what will be your purpose. So the word passion does not have the negative connotation that, we generally ascribe to it.

Although even that ascription is somewhat problematic because the mode of passion is not all bad. In fact, the mode of passion is vital for the sustenance of the material world in many ways in terms of all the challenges that face and adaptations have to be done for that. It’s because we may want to maintain, we do it in goodness, but the world is constantly changing. And to respond with changes, we cannot maintain by being in the same state. We have to keep being flexible.

Care. Creating this, trying that out. So in that sense, well, this is required. But, anyway, I prefer because there are some mistaken connotations that come up for today’s people, so I just prefer Thomas. Thomas is generally associated with lethargy or apathy.

Or at the very least, blindness to the bigger picture. So I now want to go into 3 modes right now in the specifics, so that’s a big topic in itself. So when somebody approaches a release institution in each of these at the level of pure goodness if somebody approaches, this is Krishna’s pastime. That actually, Krishna is performing pastimes through the Krishna consciousness movement. That is Prabhupada sometimes talks in this mood when he says that, it’s gone.

It’s also an incarnation of Krishna. And he also sometimes says that Maha Prabhu’s pastimes stopped 500 years ago. They’re continuing today. And we all we sometimes do hear extraordinary stories of serendipity or serendipity is an accidental good discovery. Nowadays, in the new age, this word is very common, synchronicity.

Synchronicity is, basically, 2 things happen at the same time. Somebody goes to a particular place, and they are looking for some opening, some job. And there’s just a few minutes before that or few hours before that, somebody has been left that job and the person or employee was looking for that job. So these are often seen as signals from the universe. And the universe is the word people use for those who don’t want to directly use the word god.

But the point is that we can see that there’s no there’s no miraculous things over here. So many people come here and, experience some higher reality. Somebody comes to Rindavan and beholds the deities and beholds the pilgrims. Somebody comes here to village and beholds the majestic raha, mother new temple land. There are so many places where the people have some life experiences.

So Krishna is alive and active, and he is alive and active not just in the world at large, but in the Krishna consciousness moment. So at this level, we see that Krishna is performing pastimes over here. And whatever is happening, there is, Krishna orchestrating it ultimately as a part of his. Now this is, to some extent, an Gupta Midhikari vision. And as we know, Gupta Midhikari, the topmost devotee, has to come down to the Madhima level to function in the world.

Level, if everything is Krishna’s villa, even those who are in Maya are also dancing in Krishna’s rasa villa. Although they’re dancing under Maya’s control. So there is there’s no need for it to preach or to correct anything. And this is not a vision at the the with which this is not a sustainable vision. If one actually wants to, function in the material world in a sustainable way.

So the has to come down to the level. So at the level, we see this as a place for purification, a place for higher cultivation. So the Propath, for example, says that in the prayers of Twin Kunti, that when people come to the temple, then the deep belief and the temple room should be recorded in such a way that situated mind has become peaceful. That’s interesting the emphasis profile is putting over here. Profile does not say it’s nice there.

This is not gonna make everyone peaceful. He’s I think the inquisitive of the child arranging the temple atmosphere in such a way that people can feel their peace. Yes. Krishna is there. No doubt.

But unless one has an evolved level of consciousness, one cannot perceive Krishna so easily. So place of purification means, you know, there is we try to create a calm environment. We try to create a ethically pleasing environment. We try to have, culture, what Prabhupad said, gentlemanly behavior. When he was asked, how do we know your followers?

He said that these are perfect, ladies and gentlemen. He didn’t emphasize that those are 10 16 round and ball of 4 egg. But that’s, of course, true, but the emphasis there was for speaking to outsiders. Outsiders don’t really care about our internal principles and practices. They’ll see what is important for them.

Are these people well behaved? So at this level, what happens is when we see this as a place where even if we don’t experience Krishna, oh, I feel peaceful over it. There are many people who are non theistic. I deliberately use the word non theistic, not atheistic. Because atheistic means they act they actively reject belief in God.

And non theistic means, God is not an important part of their life. Even such people when they go to a holy place, they see there are some mystical vibes over here. Something that is peaceful. They may not that peace in the presence of the deity necessarily to something, divine, but that experience is there. So in Satwa, we see the institution primarily as a place for purification.

And so we go there to do some service. I mean, when you do the service also, what we see is that okay. This is for Krishna’s pleasure. We will try to do the humble, grateful devotional disposition. Now, Rajesh, this becomes a place for achievement.

Now achievement, it is for Krishna ultimately. But in this, how much is the percentage of achievement? Is it achievement is 10 and for Krishna is 90% or achievement is 90% and for Krishna is 10%. That can vary. That means that we all built a grand temple.

So for Krishna. Now for Krishna, is that the central focus or is it we want to build? I want to build. So I want to distribute books. I want to get a thousand people to become remote.

So we may not have generally within the devoted society. We will not say I want to do it. We’ll say it’s why Krishna’s mercy and guru’s mercy. And maybe true, but our focus, the way we see it is that it is a arena. All of these are cities, arena for achievement.

Here we see it is a it is a venue for Krishna’s pastries. So achieve it. And then the upward competition, oh, these people have distributed many book to book more book. Prabhupal also, it will arrange this. To say, and we are in Rajogoda.

We cannot artificially adopt a Satwik with you. We cannot artificially adopt a shoot the Satwik with you also. That is why if we expect people in general to come here only for purification, Then the problem is how long are people going to stay? Okay. I come to the temple.

I sit for some time, take darshan. Most people don’t even say just take darshan and leave. You come. Tell them, come and sit and hear a class. Okay.

You can do it something. So I put this here more as also learning. We have scriptural teaching and learning. Now I won’t say that these activities are only learning and service are only in September. That is normally what we would think.

But we all want to do some things. It’s something okay. Come to the table every day and chance it before round every day. Don’t do that. Of course, I don’t have the time.

When you file the time, I don’t have the frame of mind for doing that. So we need tangible service. So when Prabhupada said, dammit it. No. Prabhupada actually very actively encouraged competition.

When he said that he would come and stay in the temple in America where the devotees will distribute the maximum books. So now the book has expected that the devotees would be doing this for Krishna, and more and more books would go out. Krishna’s message will get broadcasted. And the competition didn’t inspire a 2 realistic service. So here in the temple, as soon as Adnan Maharajas encouraged the devotees, inspired inspired the devotees to make an offering to his oldest Gopal Krishna Maharaj by distributing enormous quantity of books.

So and he said that, you know, distribute books. We should become number 1. Number 1 is very difficult. We mean temple. So yesterday, last weekend, Adi Shamru was here for the Sunday class, which Maharaj gave.

And Maharaj showed that he’s improved. He inspired the devotees so that they can become top in book distribution. And Maharaj elaborated and go back to put in inspire the devotees there to become top in book distribution. So there is competition, but the purpose of the competition is ultimately Krishna. So the achievement is for Krishna.

But now in this region okay. Yeah. You’re doing a sadhana. That is good. What should we do?

What do you actually achieve? Yeah. In many ways, the Prabhupad was not in Rajuva, but Prabhupad certainly not. But Prabhupad did encourage people to engage tangibly in Krishna’s service. So when the Vrindavan temple was reconstructed, it was very difficult at that time to get a proper cement.

No. Prabhupad was asking the boys, where are you? They were asking his contacts, live members. And finally, when cement came, Prabhupad came, the trucks were there and Prabhupad was personally watching the unloading of the cement bags. And Prabhupad told the devotee in charge.

Don’t let this be stolen. He said, count these cement bags the way you’ll count your the holy names while you’re enchanting. So it says the cement is being used for Krishna’s service. So now we could say this is a transitional region. It’s okay finding where you can buy cement, how you can get the cement.

It’s it’s something which the purpose is for Krishna. Wow. It’s competition. You know? How it’s got?

How can we bargain? How can we get at what cost properly? That’s one of the reasons why Prabhupad made his base in India. Any reasons. One and your reason was, of course, Prabhupad wanted the international movement to have a sustainable foundation in its in its homeland.

Another was that he found that whenever Indians keen on Indians, especially westerners, white skilled people, they think this the default assumption is people have a lot of money. And they get they try to cheat them. So Prabhupad didn’t want his disciples to be cheated. And he tried to train them, but he soon realized that because he had to be here to make sure that the financial dealings went properly. So Prabhupad had a business experience in the past, and Prabhupad made sure that the devotees were not taken for a ride because they didn’t know the Indian situation.

Now from the American perspective, everything in India was very cheap. Even when the devotees were being charged 10 times more than the normal price, they would think this is still 10 times cheaper than what is it in America. So the culture in America is quite different. Normally, it’s up front. You know, people don’t bargain over there.

So so much. No. They don’t bargain. But, anyway so sometimes to do tangible service here, we have to be we cannot be naive with this the whole place of purification. We may come here for purification, but others may not be coming here for purification.

And there’s somebody who’s building a temple, they might think, yeah, this is our business. So we need to have that Rajaguna also for serving Krishna. Now at the Thomas level, it becomes a place for destructive competition. Now, of course, it can also become a place for for I mean, see somebody in profile, so this is not just a place for eating and sleeping. We have to do.

We have to do. So that is there, of course, but that is not as big a danger for others. So this is more of an individual danger. If somebody becomes lethargic, somebody is say, now, again, this would be, I think, step more for those who are already living in the institution. But for those who are not necessarily living there and those who are living in the institution are relatively in a huge minority now.

Although they remain the face of the moment, but they are not at all the, anywhere near the majority of the moment. But for everyone else, even those who are not residing in the typically in the moment, it can become a place for destructive competition. Destructive competition means that can be the attempt for the hungers for power is there, and there’s domination. Now we may say I’m doing all this for Krishna, but the point will be for Krishna, it will become very minor, and it becomes I am going to do this. This is where one more one expression of Thomas is the ends justify the means.

Because I’m doing this for Krishna’s service, then whatever I do is okay. The ends justify the means. And so, you know, we are getting this land for Krishna’s sake. So even if we legally occupy the land, you know, the laws are favorable. When somebody from other religions do something, we become very angry, or they’re grabbing land.

But when we do something, oh, it’s for Krishna’s sake. So, you know, in this Krishna it’s for Krishna’s sake. So it can become the any justify that means can be used not only to manipulate and dominate as outsiders, but can also be used to dominate insiders. This is where things can become very cultish. And there have been phases and places in our moment’s history where things became quite cultic, where very, very narrow minded, very intolerant towards any questioning of authority, very demonizing anyone who questions authority and demonizing the outside world.

So that’s to create a huge fear of the outside world in people’s minds so that they don’t go out even if they’re visible inside because that fear has been created. So Prabhupada did talk about how in the 5th canto, Bhagavatam, there’s a description of the hellish planets, But he hardly used that in his preaching. He didn’t emphasize. He didn’t want people to take to Bhakti because or if you are if you are not practicing Bhakti, you will be in you know, and simply, and you will go to hell for that. Mahabharata’s focus was never that.

His was that if you you are a spiritual being and you are and for such so much better happiness than what is available to the senses. So why have you wasted your life making something so meager? Prabhupal also warned that search for personal power, that that will be the ruin for the moment. He also said that the moment will be destroyed from inside, not from outside. So that means that that those who are hungry for power and those who are competing for power, they can they can cause a huge destruction in the moment.

Now each now these are 4 levels means that we should be rising upwards. And Prabhupad, in the early 19 seventies itself, said that now it is time for us to churn the milk. So churn the milk means we want to rate the consciousness of devotees. So, generally, it is at here, that somewhere in Rajas and Thomas, people will be Kanishkas. So Kanishkas are very external in their focus.

So as long as they follow the ritual of going to the temple regularly, nothing else matters. And then how I deal with devotees doesn’t matter. And then I respect devotees. I even associate with devotees also. That doesn’t matter.

So prochurning the milkmaids, Prabhupada wanted us to rise to a higher consciousness and thereby make sure that the higher consciousness is present. So now when I have drawn this picture of a mountain over here, what that means is that the mountain has all these parts simultaneously. So like that, within Krishna’s movement, all these parts will also exist simultaneously. Now depending on two factors, depending on the disposition, Disposition primarily of the leaders and the disposition of the followers. So I would say this position, it doesn’t matter around 80, 90%.

But k. I mean, this is the approximate percentage, of course. See, let’s as approximately as it, the disposal of the leaders in money will matter 80%. That is where the followers would matter around 20%. But, eventually, followers are also going to become leaders.

So if the followers, for exam the leaders, for example, emphasize achievement very much. That’s the good books. No. That is required, but if they do not emphasize adequately, then we need to do it in proper consciousness. Our purpose is not just to sell a book.

It is to win our heart. So if we forget that, you know, we might manipulate and view people and sell a book. What may happen is that we may sell a book, but we may lose our soul. It is we wanna win a win a win a heart also. And among these, this is important, but this is much, much more important.

So during the interactions with people, it should be warm and cordial and polite by which they feel, I met a nice person. I wanna know more about what these people are doing. So if the leaders do not emphasize the tantric consciousness sufficiently, then the problem would be that even if the leader themselves are not Rajasik, the followers may go to Rajasik, and may even go to Tamoguna from there. And sometimes this happens with the in the gurus, my relatives, have good relationship. At least, working relationship.

But in the same place, when their disciples and each disciple, has the tendency for then there’s a power. There’s a there is a tendency for one upsmanship. One upsmanship means that I want to be superior to you. I want to buy Google’s the best. Buy Google’s the best, and therefore, by extension, I am the best.

Nobody will say that, but that is the mood. Then there can be tension between the various gurus. There can be tension between it’s not too much tension between the gurus, although that is also possible in rare situations. But mostly it is the disciples have a it’s like we can be zealous. Zealous means dedicated, having zeal.

That is good. But being zealous should not make us jealous. Zealous is dedicated. Jealous is destructive. It means that you should not no matter what happens, dedicated me, say, I want to serve my guru, and I want to serve my temple.

I wanna serve my leader. And through that, I want to glorify Krishna. I am jealous. That is well. But jealous would mean that I wanna make sure that you don’t succeed.

Because if you come here and you do better than me, that will be a disgrace and defeat for me. So that would be deadly. So we can have a discouragement and, impediment. So this so at the same structure means it could be through discouragement. There are negative remarks made, or there is impediment.

Impediment can be it’s going through criticism. Impediment can be through bureaucracy. Oh, you know, this is not your zone, and you’re not taking this permission, and you’re not done this, and you’re not done that. And now, of course, this is an all all bureaucracy doesn’t have to be bad. But it can happen where the point is making sure that that you don’t do better than me.

Not that we could see that we are all part of Krishna’s. There’s a lot we are like doctors under the pandemic. So many people who are sick. And the point is not who is treating how many patients. The point is how many people are being cured.

If somebody’s succeeding in treating more people, we should be happy. So that vision is very difficult to have in the job. That’s why it’s very important that, we have humility. And humility, it is the easiest way to cultivate humility is by cultivating respect. Respectfulness.

To feel, you know, I have no I have no I am small. I am insignificant. That’s quite difficult. But to cultivate respect is relatively easier. Oh, this person is also doing something worthwhile.

This person is also doing something valuable. In that way, it is possible to move forward. So what’s the next round of piece on each end? They will not make any sense somebody who’s in the. Alright.

Even if they don’t make sense, at least we aspire for that. And then that would keep us at least pointing towards the true norm. So it is the responsibility of leaders to try to raise the consciousness. And, of course, we cannot outsource the responsibility to leaders alone. We have to remember why am I here.

I didn’t come here for fame and glory, and we all would like to have some some others praising us and others appreciating us. But, you know, we came here for Krishna. That’s why the key principle here is. What am I here for? To the extent that that is clear for us.

Like I said, our vision is a function of our intention. So if we can remember our purpose is Krishna. Rohit Kumar did not start the International Society for Temple Construction. He did not start the International Society for distribution. He did not start the International Society for.

He did not start the International Society for. He did not start the international society for, say, when we get you kicked. All these could be a part, but it’s like the big umbrella is Krishna consciousness. You want to propose it, what it means the most is to develop love for Krishna. Under that, we can have many different umbrellas.

So we can have temples. We can have books. We can have group rules like that. But, you know, our umbrella say somebody’s umbrella is the where they education. And that is good.

But the name of the umbrella, we should not go out of the bigger umbrella. We should be able to find our space within that bigger umbrella. So this is four levels. Now what are the 4 perspectives or 4 ways of looking at things? This is wherein now it’s very easy to consider that, okay.

The people who we don’t like, they’re the. And the people who we like, say, oh, there’s a. In this world, Krishna says, every endeavor is covered by Paul. You know, 1846 to 48 is act among the most important verses for for functioning in the world in the Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna says work in a mode of worship. So But then he also says that That every endeavor is covered by fault.

So everything will be faulty. We’ll have faults. So and this does not mean that we did that all. Everything has paused. So any level of calls can be tolerated.

But this four perspectives but this the first part which I talked was it’s if you think about it, it’s it’s it’s the philosophy concept of the 3 modes being applied in this context. But the second part, this is more of my observation and realization, and it has helped me to reconcile a lot of things. Each other travel abroad over the last 10 years. And I saw so many different varieties of Krishna consciousness. So it’s like I said, different people have different priorities.

Now so I’ll use the acronym post. Post refers to 4 different ways people may see the moment. Some people may see it as a home. Some people may see it as a office. Some people may see it as a school, and some people may see it as a training ground.

A training ground with a cultural a cultural or a visual training ground. That’s what I referred. So now these four visions, a, can all be had with a genuine service attitude. Somebody can have a very, very sweet, deep service attitude toward Krishna. So all these 4 visions can actually be all these 4 big visions or perspectives.

It’s not that one is the. Of course, we can have a deep service attitude. So for example, when there’s home, the focus is primarily on relationships. In the office, the focus is on tasks. It’s on getting the work done.

And how? Of course, at home also, there are many tasks to be done. If you’re not in a home at the play the home is a place where you can fit items. Mhmm. And office also, relationships are important.

After all, people grow through networking. But relatively speaking, you can say, in the form, the relationships are more important than the tasks. It’s not that if somebody is not going to do a task, then you are going to say that okay. Get out of it. In worst case, that may happen, but that is considered a catastrophe.

It’s certainly a serious problem. In the office, tasks are more important than relationships. So and, now what happens is that both of these, the very important ways of looking at things. And so here, when somebody’s focusing on relationship more than task, that is what defines a community builder. One who prioritizes project task or relationships, that person is a project builder.

Now, of course, you can see building a community is also a project, but I’m using the word project more in terms of, okay, building a temple, doing this, some some infrastructure. I’m using the word project for that particular purpose. And these 2 are significantly different profiles. So somebody who prioritizes relationships. The idea is that on somebody for whom, this is home.

And in home, you know, we might have in our extended family somebody who is, whose capacity is very best. Maybe they tend to be very sickly, or maybe they are physically impaired or maybe they’re they have some mental cognitive challenges, whatever. But should we take care of the family? We we absolutely take care of the family. We cannot abandon them.

But the office yeah. It’s nice to have relationship, but we have a job to be done. And the job doesn’t happen. Right? You have to leave.

You find somebody else who does the job. So in one sense, here, in the of of within of the office, people are somewhat dispensable. So people are replaceable. Not so many dispensable or as replaceable. So you you go, it’s not the end of the world.

I’ll find someone else to do what you are doing. So now, for example, like, if we have a situation where the authority has the priming primary vision of it this being an office. And the subordinate has the vision of this being a home. Then what will happen is, it is not that the authority is bad or the subordinate is bad. If the subordinate will think that the offer that the authority is so demanding.

It’s so insensitive. And the subordinate authority will think the subordinate is so lazy. It’s so complacent. You do it. But now the idea is that that now we all have our natures, and we cannot change our natures.

But acknowledging that our nature does not define the scope of the institution is very important. When I came from Pune to Mumbai because I had some services of editing and other things, I did came inside. So I was working on on that that’s book journey within. At that time, it was called the yoga of love. So I relocated to Mumbai.

So one of the leaders met me, and he told me right at the beginning, if you want to talk they said that if you want to get things done, come to me. If you wanna talk, go and talk with these these devotees. So he defined the quality. He said, don’t come and I don’t have time to talk with you. It’s a very interesting, way of putting things.

So I talked with him much, frequently afterwards. And I can see that, you know, he is a project builder, but he recognizes and respects community builders. From the project builder’s perspective, it’s very easy to devalue the community builder. What? So what is it that you achieved?

How many people have become reported? How many promised funds have you raised? What What project have you built? So in one sense here, relationships are somewhat intangibles. Of course, when relationship break, it’s a very tangible thing.

Tangible and it’s tragic. But overall, the say the time spent in building a relationship, in maintaining a relationship, it is actually tangible result. We are we cultivate a new person, and a new person becomes a devote. A new person may come for initiation, and then it’s a visible testament to our success. But then, somebody who’s a devotee, they’re already inside, and we spend time with them.

Okay. What happens? They’re inside already, and they’re already there. What is tangible is? If they’re inside and they leave.

Now this might view the conception that we should be treating this as a home and not as office, alone. But that is not true. If the home home can also actually be a place for. Home can also become a place for for while we said as for Harji, somebody just sits in the home and does nothing. In the west, there is this, many of the countries are welfare constraints.

That means if you don’t have a job, then the government will pay you every week or every fortnight or every month. So many people just do nothing? They just spend their time while playing video games, posting on social media, dreaming of becoming an influencer. Not having in even influence enough influence on their own bodies We will come out of their group. So the point is that just to say that the whole home is better the vision the home vision is better than the office vision and the oversimplification.

So we want also to do services. Then there are tangible things to do. There is a mission, and that mission means that the tasks are also important. So there could be very sincere devotees who have an office vision. And they will try to make relationships work, but if a relationship doesn’t work, Okay.

I have this much time for this, and after that, I have to go into other things. No. You can see that this person will leave Bhakti. He’s supposed to upset someone. Okay.

That’s all. That’s the only time I have. Such people will quote reality where, you know. Mahabharata says that for sake of one village, one person can be sacrificed. So not that one person who is sacrificed can feel very good.

I did so much, and I just go outside. But from their perspective, leaders perspective over we think I’m I’m looking for the larger good. So the point is, it’s not that thinking of it as a office is wrong and thinking of it as a home is right. Ideally, these 4 visions, the conclusion shall be towards is that we need to find like minded associate. So like minded means that if I’m coming here with the conception of this is my home, then I need to find devotees who also want to share that concern.

And then there’ll be good bonding. But if there’s a like minded association, it’s not that and there are people who will come here because they want to achieve things. They wanna do the things for Krishna. So the like minded sometimes it’s a conception of both the authority and the subordinate. Now authority and subordinate is not the only dynamic relationship that we can have.

We can also have the conception could be of peers with peers. There could appear 1 and peer 2. So 2 peers, if one peer is very much driven by the office mode. You never said the other peer here. What have you achieved?

You have been in Bhakti for so long. What have you been doing? What have you achieved? And the first peer can say, you know, you say you achieved so many things, but how many people have you burned out in Bhakti? Then you proudly parade how many people you brought to Krishna.

Have you ever counted how many people went away from Krishna because of you? So there can be coldness and animosity because of that also. So many times when I see I’ve traveled across the world, and I have talked with many leaders. And because I’m not a manager, you know, most leaders don’t see me as a competitor or threat. So they often open their hearts and talk with me.

So I didn’t understand that 2 people they’re so particularly critical of each other. Wow. Both of them have such devotion and dedication. So it took me some time. How could if you’re also devoted to Krishna, how could Krishna devote it to Krishna?

How could you be so grateful to a someone else? I talked with many senior devotees, and I reflected on it, I prayed to Krishna. And slowly, it struck me that it will get often speaking with a completely different conception. And because of that, it’s not it’s just that what the other person is doing just makes no sense to them. Now when the focus is on school Now, again, a home office school, you say, Prabhupad, for example, when the home conception talk about he talks about the the 6 loving exchanges.

And he says that in the in the Upanishamrut, He says that the Krishna consciousness moment is nourished by these fixed flow exchanges. So he’s talking there more towards the home conception. Now, Prabhupad is often now have mentioned in now is my home. My approach is my place of worship, and Bombay is my office. So ProBhavans also had now all these are the contextual conscious moment only.

So ProBhavans also had this idea of learning something from this perspective that this is the place I work, this is the place where I stay. But the idea of multiple conceptions of the institution is there. So now Prabhupad also was, at times, a taskmaster. And said, you know, impossible is a world is a full visionary. In 2 months, you publicly.

And that was so now is that office well, there’s so much emphasis on the task because that is a lot. It’s a deadline we have to meet it. Now, of course, you can see in the home also deadline is there. There’s a wedding, and everybody has to make that make sure that everything works at the time. So that deadlines can be at home also, but broadly, the focus on the tasks.

So Propa did give deadlines and some serious deadlines. So those we can say broadly associated with the with the vision of office. The school when I say school, the primary focus is it is a place for learning and then graduating out. Graduating out means what? When a person learns the values, and then they learn the values, learn the skills, and they go out in the world, and then they have their life.

So in the 1st generation, becoming a devotee meant moving into the moment. So, physically, for everyone, the moment was the institution was their home, physically. But slowly, things started changing. Now most people don’t live in the institution. In that sense, physically, it’s not their home, but still that’s the place where we meet meet people who are sharing our values, people whom who are part of our community.

And then so in that sense, it’s still a home. But school means, the idea is, I’ve learned these values, then I will decide how I apply them, how much I apply them. And so for example, somebody we we went to a particular school. Now somebody’s over study engineering, and we may go into software after that. We may go into business finance after that.

What we learn in engineering, we carry some of it. So here, in one sense, when the focus is on learning, many times the boundaries become flexible. So the person sees, this is a place where I go to learn certain things, but it’s my life. There’s a lot of emphasis on autonomy. So I know many devotees, even probably Probuphine disciples.

They are formally devoted to Probuphine, but they say we are IScon alumni. That we we that was an important part of our life, but they identify themselves more as IScon alumni than IScon members. Because they have had some issues with the institution, and they feel that, you know, that they don’t wanna identify as members. So we learn something, and then we are going ahead with our life. Now that’s only one way of looking at it.

One is we see it as alumni. But the other is, more important for most devotees, is that the focus is on learning, on Shastra. That what is the point of building a big temple? What is the point of distributing books if you’re not reading books out of it? Oh, being satisfied?

The facade people, you know, the architecture of the temple, sweetness of the theater, the decoration of the deities, all that is nice, but the real thing is the class. What kind of class do we have? So the class is just the same thing being repeated again and again. They can’t depend upon others. You know, that’s why you see many devotees who are more intellectually oriented.

You know, they just check out of the moment mentally. Because they feel it’s like, I’m in a university where the kindergarten student and the postgraduate student are expected that in the same class for the rest of their life. That’s how the Sunday feast has become, for example. There’s no point in it. There’s nothing I have to learn and to tell people if we have taste and hear the same thing.

So that just seems to the seems to our intellectual mind, just a justification for intellectual laziness on the part of the teachers. The tradition has so much depth. It’s a feeling that, you know, here, there is a focus on I want to learn. I want to understand the philosophy. I want to understand the nuances, the technicalities.

The school vision is very different from the office vision because in the school, the focus on learning. In the office vision, So what’s the point of memorizing so many local? What is the point of knowing why this was comes after this was? Do something for Krishna. Build a temple.

So those who are more programmatically oriented, they focus on the school vision. Now, of course, I’m not saying everybody who seeks scriptural knowledge is Brahminical. For many people studying scripture, maybe the just a means to impress others. So impress how learned I am, and therefore, you should follow me. So even the school vision can be out of Rajoguna, where the learning is not to go closer to Krishna, and the learning is not even to become a better person, better human being, better devotee.

But he didn’t just do so under that I know so much, and therefore, you should submit to me. But this is the school vision is where the focus is in university. Said towards the end of his life that we spent so much money building getting marble for building these temples. It would have better if we had just trained 10 people to become Gaudiya Vishnu, conscious followers, Gaudiya Vishnu’s followers, but also internalize Gaudiya Vishnu principles and teach that. Probal also emphasized.

But it’s interesting that during his lifetime, it did not get implemented much. It was later on that in the 19 eighties, when there were lot of devotees having lots of problems and lots of questionable things happening, and it’s almost unavoidable after the charismatic founder departs, His devotee should not get misled by these kind of things. Devotee should know the philosophy. Devotee should understand the philosophy. There was one particular temple president whose wife started propagating the idea that this temple president of the temple of Prabhupad.

He is actually a reincarnation of doctor Sundar Pritapod. The reports, oh my god. You are the reincarnation of our guru’s guru. So. Okay.

So what is happening, devotees are not reading books. And even within devotional circles, sometimes misconceptions can be propagated. The Prabhupad heard this. All of them reached, and he just went there and took all the temple authority, temple keys, treasury, and, other keys from that first person and told that basically, it’s empowered that person so that that particular misconception could not be propagated. And after profile deployed it they departed, there are many cause of misconceptions came up within the moment itself.

And then those had to be known, and so they wanted to decide that we have to make sure that they would study sharper. They wanted to be the leader of the side. So the school conception is being significantly emphasized. Now for the academic patient, at least, with some amount of, Bhakti Jafri is required to the school. Now when it comes to be a last part, is that it is a cultural or ritual training ground.

So this is where certain specific practices get overemphasized. What is the point of coming here? But, you know, we need to learn the mantras so that we can perform this yoga purpose. When you’re doing Aarti, no. This is the way you should move your hand.

This is the way you should do the archma. You are doing this. Do this only in this way. Not in that. We are having a the arty with flowers.

There’s one here who would select. Bupa, it arty plate, put 7 flowers. Not one more, not less. One time, he just became catatonic. He just became out he became he was the one that became catatonic.

You can put 8 flowers. That is an offense. You are you are not capable to. So small pages can be made in. This is how it was done.

This is how it has to be done. So the children, the group, the said, how many how much about the for the last How much about the should they be fed? Should the go to eat? Said 2, 3. Not too much.

Capacity. Some people may just have a lot of this strong metabolism. So they’re told, nobody can take more than 3 kapans. So now, this is where small things have been taken, and they’re made into huge peaks. So this can also be with respect to sadhana.

Sadhana is important. No doubt. But, like, too much emphasize on sadhana can lead to people feeling guilty or being made to feel guilty. Wherein the idea is that if you’re not doing this, then you are worthless. Everything that you do is of no value.

There can be phases. Somebody has a job with the night shift. They cannot actually wake up in the morning. You know, if there’s a pregnancy in the family, then there’s a newborn baby, same thing with more than a 24 by 7 job. So there will have to be some amount of flexibility.

But certain rituals, we can use the word positive word practices, and we have taken vows. They’re important. That’s all true. But the whole world of spirituality becomes reduced to these things only. How much are you conforming to this?

And if you’re not conforming to this, then you are worthless. So what is the most important so it’s the focus I’ll call on specific activities, specific practices or activities. This is what has to be done in this way, and this can be very a b and a d for some people. I remember one Mataji. I met her in, where was this?

In Europe. And she said that her husband got a heart attack and passed away suddenly. And she called her spiritual master and told that she was shattered and she was broken. And the first thing her master asked her was, had he completed the rounds on that day? Is that the only concern, but I talked with the master also.

He said, you know, I was he had made a wow. And he completed it all. That was my concern. Like, for sometimes, in that context, it can come up as monstrously insensitive. I remember another spiritual master when some accident happened in his spiritual and his and all the disciples died.

The the first thing he did was he was in a different country. He called everyone how their family is, and he asked the counselor to take care of the family, especially where some some people had become widows or orphans or whatever. So there is no question at all about whether on that particular day when the plane had crashed, had they completed their rounds or not? It can seem so so narrow minded and so insensitive to you at that particular time. So the specific practices, are they important?

The each of these is important. Prabhupad, for example, had people who were like members and who do enormous service. But, you know, because they didn’t fit into ISKCON’s definition of success, they didn’t become devotees. They didn’t become initiated. You see, Prabhupad and the 7 purposes of ISKCON does not mention his initiation at all.

It does not even mention 16 rounds or 4 rights for that matter. So Prabhupad is happy with them, but because they did not speak into the institution’s definition of success, most of them having, like, wiped out of the historical memory of ISKCON. But they did enormous amount of service. Some of them, of course, are there in the temple and other places. But many people help Prabhupada in many different ways, but they didn’t become initiated.

However, Prabhupa was not judgmental toward them. Are you chanting 16 rounds or not? What time are you making up? What time are you chanting? No.

That’s their life. They were ready to do. And Prabhupa appreciated their willingness to do. So and he engaged them accordingly. So yes.

Sometimes when this is this is almost because they the Prabhupad talks about this in terms of, say, it’s like a military discipline. We are in a war, and we should not question our commander. And then, Prabhupad and other reason, Prabhupad said that we have to be independently thoughtful. Ultimately, we have to fly our own plane. You know, nobody else our commander did not want to fly our plane for us.

And if we find that we are in too much danger, we are not able to say our plane is becoming less in fuel. We have to make a decision. The commander is not going to make a decision at that time. So the point is that each of these visions can have task break backing. We can have backing through through profile statements.

And if your these can also have operational functional value in the world. But the thing is I’ll conclude with 2 points over here now. That fanaticism, When did it occur? When my vision is equated with the only vision. So if I operate primarily based on the principle that this is a university, this is like a school, start thinking that somebody who has built a huge magnificent temple for Krishna where 50,000 people are coming every day.

How many profiles did you do? How many you don’t even know this reference? You have not read this Achera’s book, Achera’s commentary? How could you read profile books every day? So if I devalue someone based on that, then it’s not healthy.

He’s being fanatic. But if I equate my vision to the only vision, that will be fanatic, and we should not be doing that. But at the same time, so we could say one extreme is to become fanatical, where my vision is the only vision. The other is to become insecure. Why?

Because insecure will happen because when my vision does not match the authority’s vision or the community’s vision And then, therefore, one starts thinking that maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m worthless. Or maybe, you know, if I’m doing this, I cannot be a devotee. And because I need to do this, therefore, I cannot be a devotee. I remember one boy I met, he was into he said that, you know, when you knew you were speaking, I met you.

So there are people who may not want, so he said that, you know, he was told that he said to come into Bugdi. He he attended one of my classes. That was the 1st class of the youth meeting, in one of the youth outreach centers. And then he said, I love the philosophy, but I just could not set the practices. I met him in California.

He’s one of the, you know, the biggest donors for, Amaya Ra institution now. Not just a donor, but active member and supporter in many different ways also. So he said that, but I just I love the philosophy, but I just couldn’t stick to the practices. I found this practice we find the people. So he said that I was told that you cannot read any books other than Probuphath’s books.

He said that since my the day of 7, I’ve been weak. I’ve read 2 books. I’ve read I do make a habit of reading a 100 books every year. So at least and not just like a novel. I like to read self help.

I like to read biographies. I like to read serious Buddhist. No. He said the idea that I should read only these books. If this is what it’s going to require, this is what Krishna wants to require, I can only.

So then he said, I still wanted to be spiritual. So I found the organization that was more accommodating for my intellectual needs. And he went there. So now we should be telling people what to read. If you start informing what you should not read.

Now most people don’t read anything. Only thing they read is WhatsApp messages and social media posts. For some people, what are their life? For Brahmanas, they live in books. So we don’t need to can become too intellectually confining.

So, similarly, it could be that somebody cannot become a Pujari for whatever reason. And at all, you cannot become Pujari, what is the use of your service? So that should not happen. So what should we should do is we don’t want to become fanatical and criticize others, insecure, and then devalue ourselves or devalue our practice of Bakti or our potential to practice Bakti also. Instead, we need to find like minded association.

So when we find like minded association, that means, okay, this person is doing this, and this person is doing this. So, this is where this is the mood. And when I use when we use the word mood, sometimes we use the word mood and mission together. The mood and mission of. But in my understanding, these 2 are very different.

There can be many moods. So Prabhupra had mood when he said, okay. This is most important to me. It doesn’t nothing as important as, gurukuls. There’s children are more Moods are many.

Mission is 1. The mission is Krishna consciousness, and there can be many different moods in which the consciousness can be pursued. So we need to find like minded devotees, those who have the same vision. Can there be something beyond HoSP? Some other conception, of course.

Some people may have a combination of 1 or 2 also, but I’m not saying this is exhaustive. Like, the the first four is exhaustive. There’s nothing beyond these 4 modes, 4 levels, apart from more than Transcendence. Although in real life, it could be complex combination of the 4 levels in function. So there could be but in contrast with this, it’s 4.

There could be more than that also. And there could be a combination of these blocks, but this is indicative that just because devotees seem to be taking decisions, it just seem to be not making any sense for us and does not mean those devotees are not in devotional content. It just means they’re operating from a different values. Their values system is centered on the idea that this is a home or office or a school or a training ground, and that’s why they’re being disciplined to see it. So so rather than becoming judgmental towards others, we try to find our place.

We try to find our place, and from there, we can move towards Krishna. From our place where we are secure right now, and we can steadily move towards the trend this way. If we keep our purpose, Krishna, then we will both move vertically upward from the lower modes. So with the purpose of Krishna, we will be able to move vertically through the modes towards transcendence. But where necessary, we will also move horizontally so that to a compatible conception.

To a place where there is a place with a com conception that is compatible with our understanding or our priority, our way of practicing. So individuals may have to do this, and leaders should also be broad minded enough. There’s some people who are most colorly. Then they should not be told, come on. Just go and distribute books.

They need to be guided to some colorly mentor or guide. Some devotees very particular in rituals. How is this skill get to be done? How is this worship to be done? Guide them to someone who is a specialist in that field, and let them be engaged.

We don’t have to be the authority for everyone, and we don’t have to guide. We don’t have to think that because I brought this person, this person lifelong, should be taking my guidance only. So if you have that broad mindedness, then well, so so the devotees devotees need to have the courage, and the authority needs to have the consideration by which this horizontal movement can be facilitated, by which everybody can find their place where they can comfortably and sustainably towards Krishna. I’ll summarize what I discussed today. Mainly, it was 2 part 2 large parts.

1 was we’re talking about 4 visions. One was based on levels, and the other was based on perspectives. So on levels, we’re talking about the mountain. We have Amas, Rajas, Satwa and Shraddha Satwa. So in Shraddha Satwa, we see this as so all these we see, they did arenas for different things.

I know for Krishna Leela. This is the. Then arena for purification. So we try to accordingly create an atmosphere. This is it more of a division.

Then arena for achievement. It can be achieved for Krishna’s service, but it’s prime and the focus on achievement. And it is enough for domination. Yeah. Nobody should question me what I’m doing.

Anybody challenges that person will be destroyed. This is this is definitely destructive, but all the other visions are possible to be engaged with Krishna service. And we need to be churning the bills. That means we need to be rising from where we are to a higher conception. And then I talked about how there could be these 4 conceptions of home, where relationships are prioritized over tasks.

Not just task. Relationships are prioritized. You know what learning, training in particular. Everything else. Office but I just open in the contract.

Office is where tasks are prioritized. The school is where learning is prioritized, and training ground is where particular cultural or ritual practices are. So cultural ritual practices are prioritized. And each of these may be done with a sincere save of how. It’s not that save of how is a monopoly of only 1 person.

But for us to be able to function, we need to avoid being fanatical, where we equate my vision is equal to the only right vision. We become insecure and lose confidence and even I cannot practice because because my vision or my conception has no value. Instead, we take the responsibility to find like minded association, whereby we can have the space by which we we can have the plate from which we can launch our attention to Krishna. Ultimately, for our purpose of Krishna consciousness, which is our supreme purpose, now we can move vertically and vertically, we move each one of us will move our piece. Some people will primarily be Najova and for them to move to our support, we’ll take their time.

And, horizontally, we will move from workplace. We need to so and in Krishna’s mercy, the second part of 4:11 is. All people are on my path. That means what is it? It’s from your place at your pace, access Krishna’s grade.

Some from your place could be from the place of conception that you are at you are this is a school. Your place. It’s somebody this is office, and that person is at Rajogona. For the majority of their life, they will serve in Rajopoda at your pace. They don’t have to be deluded into coming to.

They will come naturally. So from your place at your pace, that’s Krishna’s grace. Thank you very much.

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Hare Krishna. So today morning we are discussing from the Srimad Bhagavatam, one of its most moving sections. So the Srimad Bhagavatam has remembrance of Krishna in the 10th canto especially where there are 90 chapters continuously describing his pastimes. Now before that 10th canto with his 90 chapters there are 2 sections where there is a direct focus on the remembrance of Krishna. And that is from 1.7 to 1.14 or 13 we can say.

We can call 15, Krishna is not there but there’s a direct focus on Krishna so this is like a preview. Just like before a movie there’s a trailer so in the first canto there’s a trailer given of the sweet pastimes of Krishna that are described and then here in the 3rd canto chapters 1, 2, 3, it goes on a little bit to 4, there is again a quick recap of the pastimes of Krishna. And in these different contexts, there is a contextual point over there. That here, Udhava is meeting Vidura, and both of them are great devotees. It’s interesting after this very devotional meeting, Vidura meets Maitreya.

And Maitreya is also a great saint, but he is not a devotee of that level of intensity. So with him, he has a more analytical discussion. But here, there’s just a shower of memories of Krishna being described. And here it is, two aspects of Krishna described. Who can forget him if we just experience Krishna?

And here it is said that if you just smell the fragrance of his lotus feet, there are, in literature, there are always, insider references. That means, let’s say, if in India movies are very popular. In a normal conversation somebody might make a statement which could seem to be a normal statement, but it’s exactly identical to a dialogue in a movie. Then what happens is those who know that, they immediately know what is being referred to. Those who don’t know, okay, that’s just a normal dialogue.

So there is this in this particular verse which we are discussing, there is this insider reference. What is that? That who can forget the lotus feet? The once they have once they have smelled the fragrance of the lotus feet of the Lord, who can forget it? So this is like a nod to the insider.

What is being referred to over here? The pastime of the Kumaras. That they remember they were situated in personal liberation, but they were attracted. They became completely absorbed in the Lord. So there’s a reference to that over here.

And then so there are 2 parts to this. The insider reference to the power of fragrance. Fragrance of the Lord, Lotus, feed. And the second is, so in one sense, one is a devotional potency that has been talked about. That is the capacity to attract the devotees.

And the other is more like a Kshatriya potency, almost. You could say a martial potency. That the Lord, just by lifting his eyebrows, he he brought the end of the Kshatriyas. Now I have read in English a little bit extensively. And in English nobody reads leaves of the eyebrows.

That is a that is an unusual reference. So this is where Srila Prabhupada’s Bengali background comes in. In Bengali poetry, actually, the eyebrows, especially if a person has long eyebrows, the eyebrows are considered to be like leaves. So the leaves of the eyebrows. So Prabhupada is translating the Bengali vernacular into English over here.

So, of course, sometimes the leaves of the eyebrows are referred to in English also, but it’s very rare. So the other is that here also it’s like a it’s a devotional commercial. Because it’s not saying that Krishna uses the solar chakra to kill. Just by raising his eyebrows, he killed the demons. And now there is a repeated reference to the power of the eyebrows throughout the Bhagavatam.

There is a reference that when Krishna but those who meditate on the eyebrows of the Lord, you know, their hearts get captivated. This will come in the 3rd canto, later in Kapila’s teachings. Later in the 7th canto, when he said, when Hiranyakashipura raises eyebrows, the demons would tremble. So, the eyebrows are often used in the Bhagavatam as a reference to indicate not just emotion. If somebody raises the eyebrow, they are surprised.

They are alarmed. Whatever. They’re concerned. But Bhagavatam uses it. Raising eyebrows is like a indicators seen as a gesture of power.

That how much can a person accomplish by just moving their eyebrows? Now most of us move our eyebrows. Nobody even notices it, isn’t it? So there is 2 very sweet references. Normally, when we talk about a person also, how we talk about the person tells our emotional bond with the person.

Now if we’re just talking about someone we don’t know very well, we say, okay. This person had come. But if you really love someone, then when you talk about that person, our eyes light up, our face lights up. And then, you know, affection is also seen through small details. When somebody says that, okay, you know, the sweet way in which this person speaks, the way they do this, the way they do that.

So here, the personal aspect of that relationship is emphasized through the very personal attributes described. The fragrance of the lotus feet and the power of the eyebrows. So the theme mentioned over here is, who will forget such a Lord? Now for the question being asked, it’s a lit it’s a rhetorical question. The same question is rhetorical.

Rhetorical means the answer is included in the question. Somebody say, oh, if you have an opportunity to invest money where you’re guaranteed to get 5 times returns and not upon Z scheme. No. Who will not invest money? That means who will not?

Nobody will. So, the question there is rhetorical, but for most of us it is literal. Who will not who will forget the Lord? Well, almost everyone in the material world forgets the Lord, unfortunately. So the rhetorical question has literal applications for us.

So I’ll talk about 3 things over here in today’s session. I’ll talk about first memories and how why memories are so important, The importance of memories. Then I will talk about how are memories formed? Formation of memories. And then, how we can form devotional memories.

That is the last part we’ll talk about. Now, in one sense, the greatest asset that we have in our life, which will be always with us, is our memories. We can say it’s our consciousness. That is true, of course. Prabhupada started the International Society For Krishna Consciousness.

But consciousness is based on memories. Isn’t it? What we are conscious of depends on what our memories are. We have to have remembrances to be able to remember. So the in one sense, you could say one of the purpose of life, one of the purposes of life, it is to form joyful memories.

Because that is what will be there with us. Maybe when we are old and we are in a hospital bed all alone, maybe caregivers will come and go, even if we have affectionate caregivers. But still, what we are going to be is, we are going to be alone with our thoughts. And even now, throughout our lives, we may be surrounded by people, we may be busy doing things, but it is our thoughts that are there always with us. Our thoughts, our consciousness is based on our memories.

And in many ways, the infatuation with technology is because most people have such hauntingly empty memories. Their memory bank is so either empty or so painful, That when you say everybody’s glued to their smartphones. Now, we all may have work to do and life keeps us busy, so that’s fair enough. But whether we are using, our phone and the screen to get things done or to get away from the world. Now that is a question that everyone needs to ask themselves.

And for many times, what happens is that people either have our memory bank at present. We all have a memory bank, whether we have thought about it or not. Either it is empty, hauntingly empty, or it is painful. When we the memory bank is empty, then there is nothing to think about. This is a zone when you are spaced out.

You have nothing to think about. If you have nothing to do, then people just go mad. But worse than that, nowadays so many people have traumas from their childhood. Now the word trauma 20, 30 years ago signified some very horrendous happening. But now it is used very commonly.

And, well, trauma is definitely a terrible thing to go through. But what is trauma? It’s basically a terrible memory. And that terrible memory is ruling our life and maybe even ruining our life. It is running our life and it is ruining our life.

So painful memories are a serious problem. It can be ruling our life. It can be running our life. It can be ruining our life. Ruling our life means, it’s like, you know, there may be head of state in a country who is ruling the law, But they are not literally in control of everything and everyone.

Sometimes our memories are not only ruling, they are the most they are the memory they can’t be challenged. But they are running every aspect of our life. Some people are just running away from their past all the time. And sometimes it’s ruining. Now, of course, this could be the memories could be in terms of emotions.

Some pain or fear or anger or betrayal we may have experienced. It may be in terms of desires. Desires mean somebody has given into addictive habits. Now, of course, these 2 are related. It’s often when people have painful emotions, then they give in to or they rush into unhealthy habits as a means to escape from them.

So, either way, the point is that everybody has certain memories. And our memory can be an asset or it can be a burden. And for many people nowadays, because we all are concerned about making memories, so we click photos. Nowadays, with smartphone photos are so easy to click. But it’s often more about showing others our experiences than remembering those experiences ourselves.

Like, how much of a impression our experiences create inside us is not as important as how much impressive those experiences seem to others. So we are more concerned about creating outer impressions than inner impressions. And that’s why, that’s one reason, among many reasons, that our experiences, you know, don’t lead to memories. To have memories that can sustain us, that can uplift us. So so the point I’m I’m not going to I’m not going to go into whole the sphere of trauma.

But the point is we often go through experiences. But while going through experiences, are we trying to create inner impressions through those experiences? Or are we trying to create outer impressions? Somebody goes to a beautiful, say, Kanyakumari and sees the beautiful sunset. Now and so looking at the sunset, we’re eager to click the photo and put it on social media and say, I went here and I saw this.

So immerse oneself in the experience. So that’s how we form memories. So our memories are what are going to be with us, ultimately. Nothing else is going to be with us. So memories are very important for us to create.

Now that brings us to the point of what creates memories? Now, broadly speaking, there are three factors. That at one level, it’s our intentions. Ultimately, we choose what to dwell on. It is we decide what we are going to focus on, but our intentions don’t act in isolation.

Our intentions are shaped by our inclinations. Inclinations are our more judgmental word for them is conditionings. We all have certain conditionings. Our mind tends to go in certain directions. So our intentions are shaped by our our memories are shaped by these three factors broadly.

1st is what we want to remember. 2nd is what we tend to remember. So what I want to remember and what I tend to remember may be quite different. Tend to remember means that is where our thoughts go. One way to understand our inclinations is to think, where do my thoughts go when they have nowhere to go?

So that’s our inclination. Does it go towards sports? Does it go towards politics? Does it go towards food? Does it go towards sensuality?

Does it go towards gossip? So so that’s our inclinations. And then the last part is our situations. Our circumstances. So, basically, what we want to remember, what we tend to remember, and what is memorable.

There is no such word as it. What is memorable in our situations. So generally, if we go to a social event, if we come to a temple or if we go to a party, we go to some workplace, there are certain things which stand out. There are certain people who are impressive, Certain places that are attractive. So what is memorable in our situations?

So broadly, these three factors, they shape our memories. And in many ways for us, when our memories are formed, we when we are going through life, we may not even realize that a particular event is especially going to be forming a big memory within us. It can happen both ways. Sometimes we expect something to be memorable and that turns out to be mediocre. It becomes like an anticlimax.

You think, oh, I’m going to go to this place, and I’m going to see that. I’m going to do that. So our experiences, when we have them, we have the expectation. And ultimately, we have the impression that is created, the memory that is created. So the expectation is that this will be extraordinary and turns out to be ordinary.

But on the other hand, there can be the expectation is negligible. It’s it’s not even noticeable. Sometimes, the small acts of courtesy, the small words of affection, that become memorable. If we look in the Gopi Geeth, the gopis do talk about how Krishna lifts Govardhan Hill. But if you see the memories, So all the special memories the gopis are talking about is not about the dramatic things Krishna has done.

It is about the gentle smile, the side long glance, the the the sweet words that are spoken. That in private, the sweet words of affection that you spoke. Those they’re deeply touching our hearts. So basically, for us, the things that will become memories, it’s it’s not always according to our expectations. And that’s why when we are trying to form memories, say for example, when we come and have darshan of the Lord, when we come and do our sadhana, when we hear Krishna katha.

So all of these are opportunities to form memories. That, yes, when we hear a class, we want to remember some points. And, yes, that’s important to remember the points. But at the same time, the the point is not to remember the points. The point is to remember Krishna.

The point is to give fuel for our remembrance work of Krishna. Now that remembrance of Krishna can happen from both ways. In the Bhagavad Gita throughout, the Gita talks about. So when we’re talking about remembrance of Krishna, the remembrance happens through our mind and our intelligence. Our mind and our intelligence.

So our mind’s desires are attracted. And our intelligence convictions. Both are important. So if you see in the progress in the hierarchy which Krishna talks about in 3.42, So he says that the soul, there’s the intelligence, there’s the mind. Then below there are the senses.

And then there are the sense objects. So there is a gravity pull. The gravity pull of attachments by which we are all attracted toward the particular kind of sense objects that we may have habituated ourselves to. So this is the conditioned soul, the conditioned self. Now in this conditioned self, what happens is there’s a gravity pull.

Now interestingly, Krishna says this gravity pull of karma is present in senses, mind and intelligence. All of these places it is present. And from there, It sabotages our intelligence. It sabotages our way of functioning. Our wisdom.

Not intelligence, but the wisdom. So it sabotages that. So it’s there in all these places. If you see among these, the the way the Gita says we need to work. It’s like the mind is intermediate, but it’s very difficult to attack the mind.

So Krishna says there’s a two way to attack. 1 is at the level of the senses. The other is at the level of the intelligence. So 341, there was Braly says he says, what should you do? Regulate the senses.

And second 343 says, That with your intelligence, situate yourself on the spiritual platform. So the mind is almost like an enemy that is or the conditionings within the mind, not the mind itself. The conditionings within the mind are like an enemy that is almost inaccessible. Like in this, war between Israel and, Hezbollah or wherever. No.

Some of the terrorists, they are hidden in places where it’s just not accessible, deep underground or here or there. So they’re hiding. Even the enemy comes and attacks, it’s very difficult to reach that place. So like that, the main core of our memories is situated in our mind. And it’s very difficult to reach the mind.

So Krishna says that instead of trying to attack the enemy who is at an unreachable position, start with what is more accessible. So the regulation of the senses and the conviction of the intelligence. It’s easier to regulate our senses. Say, for example, somebody’s an alcoholic. We’ll talk about alcoholism example and then we’ll move towards in the last part about bhakti.

Because many days since the the Chitancher tamrut, love of God, love of Krishna is also compared to intoxication. So it’s a divine madness. It’s like the intoxication. So if somebody is an alcoholic, at that time, for them to get rid of the desire for alcohol is very difficult. It’s very difficult to control.

You can’t reach in our mind reach inside our mind and get it out. But what is possible is regulation. Now, don’t keep alcohol in your home. If you’re serious about recovering from alcoholism suppose there’s a recovering alcoholic and their house is right next to a bar. Then there’ll be no bar for them to go to the bar.

Everybody has weak moments. So in those weak moments, we’ll succumb. So making sure that we don’t have the alcohol the regulation, the sensory level is easy. Similarly, reading about and understanding the harms of alcoholism, that is also relatively easy. It’s there’s one alcoholic he said, you know.

Yes. He told one of his friends, yesterday I read a very I read a very powerful, like, act, article about the dangers of alcoholism. It drew me to immediate action. Now this person was, was an alcoholic who would never give up alcohol. So his friend had been trying to get him off alcohol for a long time.

He says, I’m very happy. So what action did you take? I immediately stopped reading the article. That is the action I took. So now, the point is that, relatively speaking, convincing the intelligence is not that difficult.

Sometimes we may not want to look at the evidence that’s right in front of us because it is against our mind’s desires. But it is relate changing the intelligence conviction is relatively easier than changing the mind’s inclination. So this, it’s almost like the mind is like a renegade soldier, a soldier who has gone mad. And the soldier wants to attack the enemy even if there is some kind of peace agreement that has been done. So all that you can do is you can’t control that soldier.

You don’t know where he is, where he has gone, what he is doing. So make sure that the soldier doesn’t reach the border. Seal the border and make sure that the higher ups in the army don’t support the soldiers. So it’s like that our mind is like a renegade soldier. It’s very difficult to manage the mind in itself.

And again, when I am saying the mind, the mind itself is not our enemy. It is the conditionings within the mind that are the enemy. Krishna never says, destroy the mind. He says, transform the mind. So but the point is that to reach the mind to reach the mind, there is a outside in approach and there is a inside out approach.

You could say it’s it’s it’s inside in approach only. It’s inside out approach. But you can say from inwards, it is outward. That means the intelligence, conviction. And the senses, regulation.

Sensory regulation. So to the extent we do these two things, to the extent what is inside in the mind can be regulated. And ultimately, it can be changed. It can be reformed. So there’s so how are memories formed?

You know, there is this interesting word, reform. Now reform generally refers to positive change. Somebody’s a reformed criminal. But now to re to reform someone literally, we have to reform. Form again the impressions, the memories, the desires.

So reform. New impressions have to be formed inside. So how are our memories formed? That was the second section that it’s based on the inclinations that we have, based on the what is our intention? What are inclinations?

And what are our situations? So when I talk about these three things, now in our intentions, our intentions can be boosted by intelligence. That is where our intell intentions can be shared by our convictions. Our situations can be guarded by regulation. And by that, gradually, we can hope to change the inclinations.

The inclinations, it is going to be gradual. It doesn’t happen overnight. It isn’t it may take a long, long time. But if we are able to do these two things, we are on the progressive path. How long that path will take will depend on how strong the inclinations of the mind are, either positively or negatively.

So that brings us to the last part. So the first was importance of memory. 2nd is how are memories formed? And now, how do we form devotional memories? So for this, at one level, studying Shastra, hearing philosophy is important.

That is, So we need the conviction of the intelligence. The intellectual conviction, what it does is, it reminds us that Krishna is important. That forming memories about Krishna is vitally important. The problem for spiritual seekers in the material world is that Krishna is invisible. And Maya is ultra visible.

Maya is made visible everywhere in the world. So that’s why the Indian’s conviction is so important because we want to turn toward the invisible Lord from the ultra visible Maya. When it is said the Lord is. Now, can be used to refer at one level to the glory of the Lord, that the Lord is beyond the senses. But other level, adhokshaja is also talking about to indicate the rarity of loving someone who is inaccessible to the senses.

So to love uninterrupted somebody who is whom we have no access to our senses, That is very difficult. Although we don’t have any access to Him through our senses, fortunately, the process of bhakti gives Him access, gives His access to us. Gives access for us to Him, whichever way you want to look to it. I’ll talk about the difference between the two shortly. But the point is that without intellectual conviction, there is no possibility of sustaining the practice of bhakti for those who do not have a natural inclination.

If somebody has Now some people are just born with a devotional inclination. Maybe they had a cultural upbringing also, which is very devotional. They may not know much philosophy, but their heart’s inclination is actually directed toward Krishna. So they’ll cook for Krishna, sing for Krishna, worship Krishna, the deity. And Krishna will be the center of their life.

If the inclinations are toward Krishna, naturally toward Krishna, then the conviction is not that important. In one sense, it’s not that I would say it’s not that the conviction is not important. Cultivating the conviction is not important at an intellectual level. Because that’s already the inclination is there. So the purpose of the conviction is to change the inclination.

But for those who do not have cultivating that intellectual conviction is very important. Repeatedly reminding us that Krishna is the There are so many arthas in this world. That, we all need wealth, we need to take care of our health, we need to take care of our relationships. There are so many arthas in this world. But Krishna alone is the.

So what happens is it is buddhi. It is intelligence that help that helps us to separate from anartha. So anartha, the word we generally use it to refer to lustanger, greed. That is true. But anartha, if you look at etymologically or more functionally, what it means is that to consider something to be of greater artha than its actual artha.

That when somebody has greed, then money becomes the most important thing in their life. Now money is an important thing, but it is not the most important thing. So means that even something which may have artha, its value becomes way way too much more. So for us, we need buddhi to put artha down and to put up. So that buddhi is vitally important.

Now after that, that’s why when we regularly hear, study, contemplate, we remind ourselves of the importance of Krishna. And then, so then after that we try to create our situations as much as possible so that they are favorable to our bhakti. Now how do we do that? I’ll conclude that with 4 broad ways in which we can cast our situation so that we can move toward Krishna. So that our externals can be made more favorable.

So these are 4 ways in which we can both bring bonds in our life, and we can create boundaries in our life. So one is a category. That sometimes we can start a new category of activities in our life. Say, for example, when you start practicing bhakti and sadhana. Now many people may have bhakti as an emotion or in their hearts.

But they are they may bhaktas, but they are not sadhakas. They’re not really practicing sadhana. So sadhana means we start a new category of activity. Maybe we fast every kadush. Maybe wake up in the morning and do our chanting.

So we start a category of activity. Maybe for the month of Kartik, we may decide that I’m going to do x y z. So for all of us, sometimes the mind looks for something new. And starting something new within bhakti, a new category of activity, can help us to create better impressions, create stronger impressions. So for in the process of bhakti, there are many specific activities.

Say, for example, we learn d t worship. We learn singing. Now we learn sloka recitation. Now we learn to give classes. So each of these is a new category of activity.

Now the book distribution marathon is going on. Now we want to distribute a lot of books. But for many people, going out on the streets and talking with strangers, that might itself be a new category of activity. Now that might be a little uncomfortable, but through it, new fresh impressions can be created in our mind. So sometimes we may start a new category of activity as a means to stimulate our remembrance of Krishna.

So here, what I’m talking about is not so much regulation. Yes. Regulation is important, but we went behind. Now how to create devotional memories? Start some new category of activity.

And as we go to a holy place now we go to a holy place and we spend time over there and then we spend time over there. It creates a new category of activities. So it is sometimes when we all of us, depending on our particular nature, we may have a desire for doing something new. So we can dovetail that within the practice of bhakti and see what is the category of activity that I can do in the service of Krishna. Then the next is accountability.

When we’re talking about changing our situations so that we have more exposure to Krishna, so that we have more opportunity to focus on Krishna. Then it is important to create some accountability. So we come to satsang regularly. Or we could be somebody else can hold us accountable, we hold us as accountable. Because the nature of the if the mind’s inclination is in some other direction, then it is that we make we may make a resolution.

Last year I remember one devotee came to me, Bro, this is going to be the best year of my life. I said, wonderful. How is that? He said, I have made 1,008 resolutions for this year. So I told him, bro, with all due respect and normally, somebody uses the phrase with all due respect, that means what is going to be spoken is not going to be very respectful.

So I said, with all due respect, 1,008, that is not not a resolution. That is a wish list or a dream list, isn’t it? We can add the most 3 or 5 or 6 or 8 resolutions, and more than 5 is difficult to keep. Maybe we can make many resolutions throughout our life. But at one time, to focus on too many is very difficult.

So the thing is that unless we have accountability, not only do we forget our resolutions, we forget that we haven’t forgotten our resolutions. So we need to have some system of accountability. Like, then after that is last word, more logistical, space and time. That means it is very helpful if you want to create impressions. To have some sacred space or some sacred time in our life.

So sacred space could mean that, you know, in our home, we have one corner, which is an altar. Now, we could have our prayer room. We create some space where it helps us to focus. It helps us, we get into that place, the external environment is conducive for remembering Krishna. The temple is meant to be such a place.

Srila Prabhupada in the Queen Kuntipar port says that the temple should be made in such a way that everybody’s mind is agitated when they come and take darshan of the deities. Their mind becomes peaceful. So creating a sacred space. We could visit a sacred space. We go to the uttayatras.

We go to temples. That’s important. But if we want to create devotional memories, we need to have some sacred space. Of course, in our home, we can have temple, Krishna’s pictures. All that is wonderful.

Whatever way we specifically do it, we create a sacred space for ourselves. And that way, we are giving an external stimulus for the inner remembrance. And similarly, in terms of time. So we if we devote a certain amount of time, that this is the time that is going to be exclusive focus on Krishna. Exclusive focus on Krishna.

When we do that, what happens by that is, actually the person, when we know this is the time for Krishna, then our slowly our mind starts accepting that. Okay. This time I’m meant to focus on Krishna. I was just yesterday night only I came back from Dubai. So we’re traveling there and, you know, actually if you see people when the time of prayers comes, you know, in the namaz just people put everything aside.

So on the streets people are doing namaz. So now whatever be the consciousness, we don’t know. But there is a time and the time prayer is offering. And I was going there and seeing them doing Namadhi. I was thinking I’m not that strict about my Gayathri also.

Isn’t it? So we sometimes try to forget it. Yes. We do our morning sadhana. But having the time sometimes it can be just ritualistic.

But the point is Bhakti Natakur says that, you know, we can take inspiration from everywhere. So having the time for prayers. But for that, we need the inclination. If that inclination is not there, Isn’t it that we are lacking in that emotion? So that’s why this space that is devoted to Krishna and time that is exclusive for Krishna, when we create this, then forming memories will become easier.

It’s it’s never easy, but it can become easier. And as this starts happening, we’ll find that our mind will start gravitating toward Krishna. As the inclinations within us change, when we have nothing to do, we’ll start thinking about Krishna. We’ll start thinking about things related with Krishna. Our thought, our memory will start becoming more and more of our friend.

So right now, I’ll conclude this point. Now, Krishna consciousness is can be done in 2 ways. And we are mostly, like like, forcing Krishna into our mind. Now, like, when they’re chanting, they’re almost forcing Krishna into our mind. So that is sometimes required.

But the problem with trying to do this is that it’s like we are trying to control Krishna, isn’t it? We are trying to use the controlling mentality on Krishna. Come on. Come in, I am conscious. Remember me.

Now that is our way of so you are serious, that is fine. But as we move forward, it will become like opening ourselves to Krishna. Krishna is present in every moment. When Prabhupada was at Vishakha Patnam, they went the devotees went swimming and some of the devotees were thinking, actually, this swimming is such a mundane activity. We are not doing any kirtan.

There is Krishna consciousness over here. And they asked Prabhupada. Prabhupada said, Krishna says I am the taste of water. Krishna says I am the light of the sun. Krishna says I am the fragrance of the earth.

He said you are surrounded by Krishna. What is the question of forgetting Krishna? So now, there is a I had not thought of any of these things. So sometimes we have to create devotional stimuli all around us to remember Krishna. And that is required.

But after some time, it is not that we have to force some Krishna stimuli so that we can remember Krishna. Krishna is present in the present. And as we open ourselves to his presence, then we’ll find that Krishna is everywhere. That is the state which Prabhupada was in. Wherever he went, you know, he was with Krishna.

And he brought that Krishna from within out throughout the world for us to all remember for generations and hopefully millennia to come. So I’ll summarize. I discuss broadly the topic of remembering Krishna, especially through especially we talk about topic of forming memories of Krishna. So I started by talking firstly in this verse itself. How there’s a very personal remembrance of Krishna in terms of his attributes, the power of his fragrance of his lotus feet, and the power of his glance, his eyebrows moving upwards.

And then they talked about the memories and how they are important. The importance is that they are our only lasting asset. When we are alone, when we are isolated, as there will be times when we are old and sick, our memory is the only thing that is going to be with us. So nowadays, for many people, their memory bank, their bank account may be full. But their memory bank is either empty or it is traumatized.

And that is a very sad situation. That’s why there is like a frenzy for technology. Now technology can be used to get things done, but technology can also be used to get away from things, including things in our mind. And that is happening. That’s unhealthy.

Then you talk about how memories are formed, formation of memories. So generally, it’s 3 things. It is our intention, what we want to remember. And so, inclination. What we tend to remember.

And then there is situation. What is memorable in our situation? So now, ultimately, bhakti memories are most strongly situated in the inclinations. So we cannot get to the mind directly. So we use a 2 pronged approach.

Situations is what Krishna says in 341, we bring regulation to our senses. And intention, we try to strengthen through our intellectual conviction. And by that, then both the mind may have memories in terms of emotions and emotional scars, or we may have desires. And those desires can be addictive. But they can be regulated.

However, we don’t want to just want to regulate them. We want to reform them. So reform is about reforming, deforming again our memories. And that connection, I discussed about how, first of all, we need to study scripture so that our intelligence is convinced that we turn toward Krishna, who is invisible, from Maya, who is ultra visible. So without that conviction, it’s very difficult to sustain.

And then, after that, I discussed about the external situations that we are in. How can we make those situations favorable? Anukul to Bhakti. I talk about these four things. We can try to create some new category of activity, a new category of environment for ourselves.

We can have accountability so that we are actually moving in the direction that we want to move. And then we can have some sacred space in our home and we can have some sacred time exclusively devoted to Krishna. And that way, gradually but surely, our memories will change and they will become our friend rather than our an obstacle in our journey toward Krishna. Thank you very much. Hooray Krishna.

Is there any quick question or comment? Yes, Rajiv. Hari, Prabhu. Hari, thank you, Prabhu, for very insightful class as usual. You know, I was realizing when you’re giving class that what takes me one week of daily journaling for half an hour to discover, I discover in one minute of your class.

I wish I will discover that also. No. It’s really, very, very, very you present Krishna consciousness. Thank you. I have one question regarding this, category.

You know, you are speaking about bonding and creating boundaries through caste. Mhmm. So what is your take on, semi spiritual activities as a category? Like, for example, you know, for me, like, I’m reading poetry now. Rudyard Kipling, Robert Frost.

And I find it very you know, I’m able to connect a philosophy sometimes like c s Lewis, you know, for those kind of things. So I’m wondering, eventually, I may use it in Krishna’s service. I don’t know how right now, how. Like, for example, learning phrases. You know, yesterday, I learned a few phrases, not idioms, idioms.

Mhmm. And then, you know, it’s so fascinating and it stimulates me intellectually. And it also keeps me happy and, keeps gives me the strength to stay away from all the, you know, distractions. Like you were saying in the beginning of the class Mhmm. That are we using the phone to get things done, or are we get using the phone to get away from the world?

So it helps me to get away from the world and also get things done when I’m in my own space in the semi spiritual activity category. So I wanted to know your take on that. Yes. Thank you for the question. Thank you for getting me into trouble.

You know, when I started my traditional preaching, I asked his own Mr. Radahnath Maharaj, did he advise Maharaj about preaching? So Maharaj said, watch out for planted questions. Some people may want to get you into trouble and ask questions. So, of course, this is not a planted question.

But, I appreciate how you use the word semi spiritual and not material. I agree with you, but I appreciate how that word used. See, generally, what happens, we just classify things as spiritual and material. And, okay, this is spiritual. This is not spiritual.

That means it’s material. But, you know, in our own tradition, there is another way of classifying. That is, we could say there is spiritual or transcendental. And then within the material, there is, and. And all these 3 are not the same.

So broadly, you can say can be pro devotional in many ways. Rajas is non devotional. Tamas is anti devotional. Now, Bhaktiv Nod Thakur in Chaitanya Krishnamurt says that we should not even equate rajas and tamas. What to speak of?

Sattva, rajas and tamas. All of them. That rajas can be very a person rajas can be very materially productive, materially responsible. And now there are 2 ways of understanding Krishna consciousness. That Krishna is present at this transcendental level.

That’s one way of looking at it. And the other is that Krishna is present everywhere. In fact, everything is in Krishna. So in the Bhagavatam, in the Gita, the material world there are 2 distinct ways of looking at the material world. It’s to see it as filled with Vishay.

Vishay is sense objects. And the second is to see it as filled with vibhuti. Vibhuti is opulences of Krishna. So now, which will be a for someone, and which will be a for someone? Now that depends.

There is both objective and subjective criteria. You know, objective criteria. If somebody drinks liquor and says, okay. I’m remembering Krishna to the taste of liquor. Well, you know, maybe, Prabhupada said that, you know, even if you can do that, one day you’ll become a devotee of Krishna.

But Prabhupada said it is not drinking alcohol that will make you become a devotee. It’s remembering Krishna. The thing is, do we have to do that to remember Krishna? There are so many other ways to remember Krishna. So for somebody who’s a habitual alcoholic or that kind of indulgence, is more likely to be a vishya than a vibhuti for anyone.

But there are many things which can actually be a vibhuti for someone. So to take a provocative ex example, Ramanand Rai was decorating the dance singles for Jagannath’s pleasure. Now, he saw that their beauty would give pleasure to Jagannath. So he was actually remembering. For him, that was a Vibhuti, the general sense that he was sent his consciousness centered in Krishna.

That that is a bit too provocative for most of us. Too much out of field. But he we can look at the material or at the what is it, non spiritual, whatever, spiritual, at things that are not directly connected with Krishna either as competitors to Krishna or as pointers to Krishna. So now how we how much exactly do they point to? That depends.

So for somebody who has a taste for language, through language, they can actually move toward Krishna quite naturally. So so I’ll talk about it at 3 different levels. So one is that what’s semi spiritual can be a vibhuti. What do you call it? So if it is a, when we are engaging with that, we are remembering Krishna.

And it points us toward Krishna. Yes. What is the power in the words? What is the power in the music? What is the power and the beauty of this place?

And that is a remember. There’s a pointer toward Krishna. The second point could be, it is a vihar for us. Vihar. So now vihar, when you talk about entertainment or recreation, what is the purpose?

The purpose is to give the mind relaxation. So we often talk about controlling the mind. And yes, it is true. Now, in the west, the word mind control is considered a very terrible word to use. Why?

Because for them, when you use the word mind control, it is not about you controlling your mind. It is somebody else controlling your mind, like mind control cults. So there we use the word mind management if you want to use it, not mind control. But, anyway, so the point is that the mind also needs to be relaxed. Like, the body needs to be rested and relaxed.

The mind needs to be relaxed. Now some people can find this relaxation in direct to devotional activities. Some people may want to go for a walk. The one devotee was telling that recently that I was I think the former Mayawadi within me is coming back. I said, okay.

Really? What happened? So they said that, actually, I sometimes feel more sheltered when I go to some walk by nature. I go up a mountain. Then when I come in the temple or in surrounded by devotees.

So I said, we should not give, Mayawadhi’s monopoly on nature. Isn’t it? So somebody may actually feel more relaxed and may even feel more closer to Krishna. The Virata Roopa is in the 10th can is in the sec in the second can’t of Mahagwatam, but it’s also in, I think, Akrura’s prayers also. There is a bit reference to, oh, the Viratrupa.

Some aspects of that are described. He’s seeing Krishna, and he’s actually describing that. So it could be that our mind gets relaxed over there, and our mind also needs relaxation. So different people may find different activities relaxing. And the third is, it’s more like, the whole concept of varna.

What does it mean? See, we have the the material lower taste. And then there is the spiritual higher taste. So the material higher lower taste is basically sense gratification. This will take us away from Krishna.

The spiritual higher taste is just straight love for Krishna. Now, for all of us, we are here. And from here, we wish to go here. But sometimes, this seems to be like the higher taste seems to be too high up. And we try to go up.

And we end up going further down. So there is, we could say, something like a higher material taste. So basically, when we are acting according to our varna, the Brahman, the Kshatriya, there’s nothing spiritual about it. But if one is acting in a responsible way, doing that as a dharma, as a service, then this is something that can sustain us as we move upward. So it’s interesting when Arjuna was asked by Drona, when we had to shoot the bird, what do you see?

What did he reply? I just see the eye of the bird. Now Arjuna did not see, I see Krishna. A devotee is meant to see Krishna everywhere. Now why did Arjun not say, I see Krishna over there?

Because, you know, the point was his service was not Arjun. And at that time, he was focused on that particular thing. Now that archery was for Krishna’s service. But his focus was on archery. So, in many ways, for us, the set what we call what we call a semi spiritual, it can be a vibhuti that points us to Krishna.

It can be a vihar for us, or it can be according to our varna. So either all of these are fine. Now the only test will be that when we do this, does it calm our mind so that we can focus more on Krishna, or does it increase our desire for doing that thing even in the time of our Krishna consciousness? So we want to, in one sense, from here, we want to come here. But we don’t want to stay stuck over here.

From here also, we want to move up over here. So that’s the test that it should it is it is meant to stabilize us till we move toward Krishna, but it should not become an alternative shelter to Krishna for us.

So thank you so much.

The post Change What You Remember To Change Yourself – Chaitanya Charan appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

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Our life, in a specific form, how can it be completed by the patient? Enjoyment is not enlightenment. So, this verse is something I will first explain in a simple way and then provide a bit of elaboration. How does the verse work?

We can understand it in the way that it is being explained, and based on that, we will discuss it. Here, in the eighteen chapters, there are verses related to economics. Initially, it may seem like a source of immortality. That happiness, what is it? Sorry, in the results, it is like poison.

The happiness that is referred to as ‘rajasic’ (related to the mode of passion). This is a type of happiness called rajasic happiness. We can see it this way: for example, if someone gets intoxicated, initially they may feel good, but then what happens? Health deteriorates, and the person starts facing negative consequences.

God describes this as the ‘rajasic’ happiness. After this, there is a discussion about the ‘sattvic’ (pure) happiness, which is the opposite of what was mentioned before. In contrast to intoxication, the fruit of rajasic happiness leads to a decline in well-being, and this is explained in the verse.

This happiness, based on self-intelligence, leads to understanding. What happens then? This type of intellect helps us understand the key issues of life. When enlightenment occurs, we experience a sense of inner clarity. It is the wisdom that comes from within, which allows us to understand ourselves and the world inside us.

These days, we have access to external knowledge through technology, like AR or HR. We can easily gain information from outside the world. However, the internal knowledge, the understanding of our feelings, desires, and the nature of our inner world, is something we need to understand to act in a way that leads to our well-being. This is what enlightenment means.

On the other hand, enjoyment refers to temporary pleasures that are not rooted in deeper understanding.

Here, we need to talk about environment and enjoyment. But in reality, it’s not as simple as black and white. What happens is that in enlightenment, there is also enjoyment. In growth, hidden enjoyment exists, and in reaching the ultimate state, there is enjoyment as well.

We can say that there is enjoyment and environment. We are in a situation where we can choose one or the other. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s an either-or choice. Just like money is not always necessary, the truth is that both need to be understood together.

It’s not that God wants us to choose only enlightenment or only enjoyment. The Bhagavad Gita shows that to reach enlightenment, a human being must have support. This state is something we can attain. This is the ultimate state.

In the ultimate state, we will experience both enlightenment and enjoyment. But to reach that stage, we must first understand how to get there. In the class, I will give three points: A, B, and C. The true happiness (A), the completeness (B), and transformation (C).

First, we need to understand what the office or work represents. Then, we make efforts to achieve it, and finally, we transform ourselves. Only through transformation can we reach the stage where both enjoyment and enlightenment coexist.

There are two types of people we might encounter. Sometimes, we might find ourselves in situations where we need to give guidance or direction. At times, it seems like a challenge to explain things clearly, especially when emotions like anger arise. We might question why something was done in a particular way or what happened.

The point is that we go through various emotional ups and downs in life. Sometimes it’s like the weather—sometimes it’s sunny, and other times it rains. Similarly, we experience various states of being. In our lives, we can experience different types of happiness, just like how avatars or spiritual figures guide us toward joy, like milk nourishing us.

How is it that people watch movies and social media, where they fall for illusions, consume, and think there’s so much happiness in these things? The problem is that the happiness derived from sense enjoyment is temporary. The real joy comes from the proper connection between our senses and the objects they interact with. The senses are like instruments, and the objects are like the food we enjoy. When the senses come into contact with these objects, we experience happiness.

For example, when we eat delicious food like a rose in a dish, we experience joy. People keep seeking happiness and trying to fulfill their desires, but many wonder why they aren’t happy. What do they need? They might think that if they had the right sense objects, they’d feel happy.

For example, someone might think that if they had a delicious dish, or enough money to buy it, they would be happy. I once saw a T-shirt with a pin code written on it: “90 percent of the world’s girls are dreams, the remaining 10 percent are in my college.” People often think that beauty is defined by external standards.

We see things on social media, on OTP, in poems, or on Android apps, where everyone looks idealized, even doctors. What happens is that everything is edited, photos are touched up, and what we see is not the reality. But we start thinking that the beauty we see on TV or online is real beauty. In reality, people in our surroundings may not appear as attractive, but we still desire that idealized image.

Most people think that they aren’t happy because they don’t have the right objects of pleasure. They think that if they had these objects, they would find happiness. So they chase after money to get sense objects, thinking that fulfilling these desires will bring them joy. But what happens after obtaining these things? Does the happiness last? This is the question.

The problem lies not in the availability of sense objects but in the limitations of our senses themselves. Even when we get everything we desire, we may feel dissatisfied. This is because our ability to enjoy, our capacity for consumption, is limited. No matter how much we consume, we can only enjoy within certain limits.

For instance, even if I stay in a five-star hotel, after a while, it becomes just a place. There’s only so much food I can eat, only so much luxury I can experience. I can’t keep consuming it forever, because our capacity to enjoy is finite. This limitation applies to everything we desire—whether it’s food, money, or material goods.

So the question isn’t about the availability of things; it’s about our capacity to truly enjoy them. The problem is that even after we get what we want, it often feels like we haven’t reached the satisfaction we expected.

In ancient Egypt, the kings were called pharaohs. They lived lives of luxury and achieved great things. Some of these pharaohs thought they could create a way to make their people vomit without pain, using medicines. They would eat huge amounts of food from large golden plates, filling their stomachs, and then take a special medicine that would induce vomiting. After vomiting, they would eat again and repeat this process. What happened was that this caused an imbalance in the stomach. The food went inside, and what was supposed to stay inside came out unnaturally, causing harm to the body and soul. Those who tried this method often died young.

This teaches us that no matter how many attractive sensory objects come our way, our capacity to enjoy them is limited. The senses can only handle so much, and we can’t increase their capacity. Whether it’s indulgence in food, sex, or any other pleasure, there is a finite capacity for enjoyment. Once that limit is reached, we can’t increase it further, no matter how much we try.

For example, no matter how much you seek pleasure from the senses, like in sexual or materialistic indulgences, the capacity to enjoy is still limited. After a certain point, it’s impossible to extend that capacity. This is why the problem lies in our capacity itself—it’s a fundamental limit.

In the modern world, people are constantly chasing after more material goods, thinking that more will bring them happiness. But what happens is that the desire keeps increasing while the capacity to satisfy it does not. This creates a vicious cycle. People may consume a lot of media and indulge in fantasies, but this doesn’t translate to happiness in real life. The excitement from the digital world doesn’t reflect real-life satisfaction.

Similarly, our physical and mental capacities are finite. If we waste them in indulgence, we won’t have enough energy or immunity to deal with real life. As we continue to indulge in these desires, our capacity diminishes while the desire itself only grows. This imbalance affects our life in the long run.

Take the example of alcohol. A person drinks alcohol, and initially, it seems to provide relief and pleasure. But over time, the desire for alcohol increases, and the person becomes addicted. The temporary pleasure of drinking is followed by the hangover and the cycle continues. The same happens with desires; the more we indulge, the greater the desire becomes, leading to a lack of control and dissatisfaction.

This shows that indulgence reduces our capacity for real happiness and well-being. The more we give in to our desires, the less power we have over them, and the more they control us.

Pleasure and Desire: Initially, desires may seem small, and they lead to a short-term pleasure. However, as desires grow stronger, the pleasure shifts from being an enjoyable experience to just a temporary relief from inner torment. It’s not true happiness but rather an escape from discomfort. As a result, people may continue indulging in these desires, thinking that the relief will bring them satisfaction, but it only becomes a cycle of short-term relief without true contentment.

Addiction and its Impact: This cycle can lead to addiction, whether to alcohol, food, or other forms of indulgence. As desire increases and becomes a dominant force, it controls the person, and they find themselves unable to escape from it. Even though they may try to control it or avoid indulgence, they end up trapped in this cycle. Over time, this addiction reduces trustworthiness and can harm relationships, including marriages, as people become more focused on fulfilling their desires than nurturing meaningful connections.

Superficiality of Sensory Pleasures: The pleasures derived from sensory indulgence are superficial. The satisfaction is fleeting, and true, lasting contentment is often absent. While physical pleasure might provide momentary relief, it does not address deeper emotional or spiritual needs. This can lead to an ongoing sense of emptiness and longing, even as people try to fulfill their desires.

Cultural Reflections on Addiction: The discussion also touches on cultural phenomena like the sexual revolution, where society encouraged freedom from traditional norms. However, this freedom has not necessarily led to greater happiness. Instead, it has often led to more superficial relationships and more people feeling lonely, despite seemingly having freedom and choices.

Effect on Trust and Relationships: The deeper consequence of unchecked desire and addiction is the erosion of trust and the failure of relationships. As desires grow stronger, individuals may compromise their integrity, which can lead to broken marriages and personal disappointments. In the long term, even though the addiction might provide temporary pleasure, it diminishes the ability to form stable, trusting, and fulfilling relationships.

Overall Conclusion: The text conveys that sensory pleasures and indulgences, though enticing, ultimately fail to provide lasting happiness. They may offer temporary relief from inner turmoil, but they do not lead to real contentment or fulfillment. The cycle of desire and addiction, fueled by external temptations, leaves people feeling unfulfilled and disconnected, leading to a gradual erosion of relationships and trust.

When we indulge in pleasures without moderation, it can lead to a lack of meaningful relationships—no children, no family. This can result in extreme loneliness. At times, we may feel as if we are alive, but there’s no real life within us. We are alive, but there is nothing meaningful that gives us purpose.

Indulgence driven by unchecked desires can lead to a breakdown in society—both in the family structure and the individual psyche. In many places, especially in Western cultures, children grow up with the idea that pleasure and material gain are the primary goals. Yet, when they grow older, they find themselves emotionally disconnected and lonely. This breakdown often happens because people focus too much on sensory pleasures and neglect their emotional and spiritual needs.

In America, for example, foster care systems exist to take care of children who are neglected by their biological families. While some of these systems are well-intentioned, many children grow up in environments that, while physically secure, lack genuine emotional connection. This leads to long-term emotional scars, and many children end up addicted or struggling with a sense of purpose.

I’ve observed many children growing up in difficult situations—whether in foster care or in families that struggle with addiction. I’ve witnessed firsthand how such experiences shape their understanding of relationships and love. Some people, having experienced neglect or trauma, find it difficult to trust others and establish stable relationships. This can lead to cycles of addiction and personal breakdowns.

Yet, despite these struggles, some individuals manage to rise above their circumstances. In my travels, I’ve seen people who, despite difficult backgrounds, find strength through spirituality and service to others. True happiness, I believe, lies not in the fleeting pleasures of the world but in deeper connections with the divine and with those around us.

When I reflect on the issues in modern society—addiction, superficial pleasure-seeking, and emotional disconnect—I realize that many people are searching for something greater. People indulge in pleasure to fill the emptiness within, but it’s only temporary. This is what I believe to be the root cause of much of the unhappiness in the world today. Pleasure and indulgence, while momentarily satisfying, do not bring lasting peace.

Spirituality, on the other hand, offers something different. The soul’s true happiness is in connection with the divine, not in material gain or sensory indulgence. True fulfillment comes from seeking that deeper connection, and this is where true joy and satisfaction are found.

In conclusion, indulgence may provide temporary relief, but it never leads to lasting happiness. The real joy comes from cultivating spiritual understanding, making selfless commitments, and connecting with the divine. Only then can we transcend the superficial pleasures of the world and find true peace.

Pure bliss is the complete direction. When desires are excessive, the bliss is immense. But when we think of God, it’s as if the joy that one would get from God is the true bliss. When this transformation happens, it shifts into a different state. What does transformation mean?

It means we will naturally get involved in advertisement. The transformed state means our perception will change. What happens at that time is that the elixir, which initially seemed so small, will be realized as poison, while something that seemed like poison in the beginning, like spirituality, will transform into bliss. So, the desire for material things will vanish.

What is the mind? The mind is like a browser. Whatever enters our mind is like data in a browser. If happiness comes into our mind, what does the browser do? It auto-completes with ideas like “eat something, watch something, enjoy the world.” When we come to spiritual practices, we may initially feel a connection to peace, like when we visit a temple and experience a sense of calm. But soon, worldly desires might arise again, leading the mind to think of worldly pleasures instead.

Why is this so? It’s because of the mind’s automatic response, like the autocomplete in a browser. When we desire spiritual happiness, we need to change our mental programming. Repetition of certain practices or thoughts leads to transformation. The mind learns, just as when you repeatedly visit a website, your browser history changes and auto-suggestions appear.

The practice of spirituality requires persistence, just as we repeatedly search for something in a browser. As we practice regularly, the mind gets trained to choose spiritual happiness over material desires.

What is commitment in this context? Commitment is the determination to choose spiritual joy, just as we make a conscious choice to pursue spiritual practices instead of worldly distractions. This is a process that requires sustained effort and dedication.

If we keep at it, the transformation becomes easy. Over time, our mental state will shift from being focused on worldly joys to embracing the bliss that comes from spiritual fulfillment.

Ultimately, the mind is like a browser, and the more we reinforce spiritual practices and thoughts, the easier it becomes to transform our desires. The transformation process might take time, but with persistent effort, the mind will naturally shift to seeking higher, more lasting joy.

Through dedication and effort in spiritual practices, we can free ourselves from the cycle of worldly pleasures and attain true joy. This process involves refining the mind, much like training a browser’s history to reflect our intentions. The more we practice, the more it becomes an automatic response.

Even if we are given such an opportunity, what happens is that we cannot explain it using our Hindi skills. What is this about? Initially, it seems like pleasure, but in reality, it is a kind of relief. What comes at the end? A higher state emerges.

This is not exactly the same. What is it? In reality, it doesn’t have much meaning, and how will sociology relate to it? In some countries, in old age, there is a significant shift in perspective. What happens is, when people continue to indulge, they will not be able to form any meaningful relationships or commitments.

Later, they may not be able to do anything, even at the age of 1:55. If the desire for indulgence remains alive, the materialistic life won’t be able to continue. In old age, there is a release; it starts from youth and peaks in old age. The person might even feel less vibrant as time passes. At that point, they may focus on what their children or society thinks.

This issue is very serious at the societal level. After all, the pursuit of worldly pleasure, which initially feels like joy, is simply an illusion. So, what should we do? We need to make a decision, take a step toward what is higher, not just what is before us.

How do we break through the barriers? The wall we face is in our mind. Our mind is like a browser. When we seek happiness, it often leads to material happiness, which is sensory-based. This is an automatic response.

Now, what about spiritual happiness? How do we achieve that? We need practice, persistence, and effort to move beyond the automatic response of the mind. Practice is essential for spiritual transformation. This transformation will occur when we move beyond worldly distractions and start focusing on spiritual growth.

When we experience spiritual happiness, the material world starts to shrink, and the experience of divine bliss becomes clearer. This is when we are no longer attracted by fleeting worldly pleasures, and we can focus on the higher, more fulfilling spiritual joy.

The commitment to spiritual growth requires us to focus on our inner transformation, which involves breaking through the barriers that our minds have created. As we persist in spiritual practice, we begin to naturally align with divine bliss. This journey requires not just theoretical understanding but practical dedication.

In the process of transformation, we must recognize that we are all on different paths, and the journey is individual. We should not compare our progress with others. Spiritual progress is gradual, and each person’s experience will differ based on their own efforts and persistence.

The societal level is also crucial here. The changing dynamics of society—like the shifting definitions of relationships and the impact of Western ideals—create confusion. Yet, spiritual wisdom provides clarity. We must remember that true happiness does not lie in fleeting pleasures but in the enduring peace of spiritual fulfillment. This understanding needs to be conveyed, not just accepted blindly.

True transformation happens when we move away from distractions, when we embrace spiritual practices like satsang (spiritual gatherings) and pilgrimages, and experience the happiness that comes from spiritual growth. The key is to overcome the three gunas (qualities of nature): rajas (passion), tamas (ignorance), and sattva (purity). Moving from rajas and tamas towards sattva leads to true clarity and spiritual enlightenment.

The transformation process, whether it’s in our personal or societal life, requires dedication, focus, and practice. The real happiness comes from embracing a higher purpose, moving beyond material distractions, and choosing a path of spiritual fulfillment. Only then can we truly experience the peace and joy that transcend worldly pleasures.

What is this in the context of excitement? If you drink alcohol, it can give you a light, carefree feeling. The experience of drinking can be pleasant at first, but is that what people refer to as the “honeymoon phase”? They say, “I find it easy to sweat in excitement.” So, it’s important to maintain a positive mindset in the beginning, and as we gain experience, we can share the problems related to this enjoyment, explaining how it might not lead to true happiness. It’s not about criticizing someone, like saying, “You are fallen, and you’re going to hell,” but rather about pointing out the moral and ethical implications.

The moral discourse goes like this: “You’re not giving enough, who are you to define morality? My morality is different from yours.” It’s all about different definitions. For example, we don’t tell someone, “You’re wrong to drink.” We need to logically explain things, especially when it comes to enjoyment and the consequences associated with it, like Krishna’s teachings on attachment and pleasure.

At the beginning of any venture, we have two paths to choose: one is for enjoyment, and the other is for enlightenment. The exciting phase can be confusing, and some might question if the excitement actually takes away from the enjoyment itself. It’s an interesting question.

How do we handle this? The journey is filled with challenges, but there is enjoyment on one side and liability on the other. We might feel the need to push others toward one side, but it’s not about giving up enjoyment entirely; it’s about redefining what enjoyment means.

We all have a definition of happiness, and alcohol, for some, is associated with that definition of pleasure. So, when someone decides to quit drinking, they might feel like they are giving up their happiness. But the process of renunciation isn’t about giving up external things. It’s about changing our internal definitions and perceptions.

Take, for example, a child born into a family that doesn’t have alcohol as a part of their culture. For that child, drinking is not even considered as an option. So, giving it up is not a big deal because it was never a part of their definition of happiness.

But for someone else who associates enjoyment with alcohol, giving it up becomes a challenge. The key is to change the definition of enjoyment in our minds. Once we do that, it becomes easier to move away from these habits. It’s not about giving up enjoyment but redefining it.

As we continue the journey, there comes a point where we realize that our old definition of enjoyment no longer serves us. We start to look for something deeper, something more meaningful. It’s a process of transition: from enjoyment to enlightenment. But this transition doesn’t happen overnight; it requires effort, understanding, and a shift in perspective.

In terms of our desires and cravings, it’s important to recognize that they don’t disappear easily. Cravings can intensify, but we can train our minds to manage them. The struggle is real, but through practice, we can overcome these distractions. Just as we can “cheat” ourselves into thinking we are happy with temporary pleasures, we can also “cheat” ourselves into seeking lasting fulfillment by training our minds.

Our mind often leads us to desire what feels good in the moment, but when we indulge without understanding the consequences, it ultimately leads to dissatisfaction. It’s like a cycle that repeats itself, with the mind provoking us to continue, only to regret it later. The true challenge is breaking free from this cycle.

In life, we often face temptations, and we may be tempted to stray from our purpose. But our minds are like a guide—at one point, it may encourage us to make decisions that aren’t in our best interest, but later, it punishes us for doing so. It’s a dynamic process of trial and error, but ultimately, it is about aligning our actions with a higher purpose.

As we understand and recognize our desires, we can learn to manage them, and through consistent practice, we can move toward a more fulfilling life. The journey is not easy, but with determination, we can change our definitions and transform our experiences into something deeper and more meaningful.

What happens? How foolish are you? How useless are you? So, what happens when we’re faced with urges and these urges surge? This surge is a negative feeling, it goes way up.

When these urges are low, sometimes we can’t resist. Even when we can’t resist, what we can do is to insist in between. What does that mean? When the desire arises, we might have acted on it. For this, we might discipline ourselves, rise up, control ourselves with devotion, or do some service. If we continue to persist in managing the urges, they gradually lose their intensity.

This is a way of reducing the intensity over time. Even when we can’t resist fully, we can assist ourselves in dealing with these urges. The intensity of the urges doesn’t last forever; it fades if we persist. It doesn’t continuously torment us. When we let go of the intensity, we begin to feel less tortured and more positive about the situation. We can perform good deeds, fulfill our responsibilities, and focus on the positive.

When facing an increase in external difficulties, it might feel overwhelming. But we must persist and endure. Over time, it will reduce. This can be likened to a match – initially, it’s very intense, but eventually, the energy starts to dissipate.

Sometimes, life feels like a struggle, similar to a match that is set to burn out. If we hold on long enough, the intensity will fade. But if we let the intensity control us, it will be unbearable. The key is persistence. The more we focus on enduring, the more manageable the situation becomes.

We often think that we can’t endure anymore, but with time and patience, the intensity starts to ease. The pain decreases, and with perseverance, we come to realize that we are capable of handling much more than we initially thought.

This process of enduring and learning to manage our desires allows us to grow spiritually. It’s like the temporary nature of our emotions and situations – they are fleeting. But if we keep thinking about them negatively, we increase the burden on ourselves. We must understand that our mind is capable of manipulating us, convincing us to focus on our desires, but we need to control our thoughts.

For example, if someone is in a situation where they are being criticized or punished, they might feel guilty. But we should recognize that guilt, if used positively, can be a means to grow. It’s important to differentiate between destructive guilt and the constructive guilt that helps us improve.

When we do something wrong, we might feel guilty, but we should not let that guilt paralyze us. Instead, we should understand that guilt can help us evolve if we use it to correct our mistakes.

Sometimes, the mind plays tricks on us, and we end up caught in a cycle of guilt. But it’s essential to understand that true growth comes from learning to handle our emotions and using them as a stepping stone to personal development.

We might not always know the right way to handle things, but by practicing patience, dedication, and intelligent action, we can overcome challenges and grow stronger. In the end, our goals and definitions of success should be based on wisdom, not immediate gratification.

We often get caught up in temporary roles and identities – like being a professional, an entrepreneur, or a student – but these are all fleeting. It’s important to remember that these roles don’t define us. True growth comes when we transcend them and focus on deeper values.

As we continue our journey, we must be aware of the illusions that the mind creates, the excuses it presents, and the challenges it throws at us. By remaining mindful, we can overcome these obstacles and stay on course to a higher purpose.

There could be some reasons, some notes extracted, and if it seems like there’s a possibility here, when someone asks a question, it’s best not to see the faults of others. If someone is asking a lot of questions, we might think that they are more intellectual, and thus an explanation might be very important for them. So, we try, but sometimes the explanation is not sufficient.

In some cases, an explanation may not even be available. Some people need it, while others don’t. Some people require a detailed explanation, so we need to convey the information in a way they can understand. But why is it necessary to do so?

How do we say that the point is to reach this answer? Maybe this answer makes sense to us. But I am here and now I understand my answer from here. If someone is here, what is the mission of their answer? Maybe we need to alter it slightly, saying that we might not have been sensitive at the time and that things have changed a bit.

In such situations, there may not be jealousy or bitterness. So, we can give a little more explanation. If we explain it from a different perspective, it may make more sense. The explanation depends on the perspective of the listener. Thus, the right approach would be to explain things in a way that works for them.

What is being promoted here is that answers can come from different perspectives. We need to study things from various angles. The one who is a skilled thinker can provide answers from various viewpoints so that others can understand better. But we also need to decide how much explanation is necessary.

If we put in the effort and still the person doesn’t accept it, we must understand that maybe they are not ready to accept it yet. For most of them, intellect might be just an excuse, a way to cover up their unwillingness. But don’t jump to conclusions like this.

They may be making excuses. For example, I travel to five or six countries, and they don’t know anything about the culture. But when they understand everything, it becomes clear. For instance, I was once in Australia, and when I was talking to someone there, they asked, “Why do people kiss the world when the conch is blown?”

For them, it was a serious question. Sometimes, we may find such questions ridiculous, but for the person asking, it might be very serious. Therefore, in devotional life, it is important to understand the association of the mind. If a person is a scholar or an intellectual devotee, they may need a different approach or analysis to help them understand better.

There are different practices for devotion, as some may need more practice, while others may need to practice at specific times. Because devotion is independent, it can be practiced by anyone. Devotion is powerful, but each person’s mind works differently. So, the process of changing the mind may be different for each person, and understanding them from various perspectives is crucial.

If someone’s desire is very intense, it will manifest rapidly. But in some places, even a strong desire may take time to come. Everyone’s journey is different.

Devotion is such a spiritual path that it can help relieve anxiety and bring enlightenment. Through devotion, we can connect directly with the divine and rise above our limitations. It’s a path that can uplift us but it’s also essential to make sure the person is ready for that progress.

If a person is not ready, their spiritual progress may not happen. In that case, the thoughts and teachings may not reach them. However, everyone learns at their own pace, and God’s grace is available to all. As we move forward on our own journey, we should help others progress according to their unique path.

So Thankyou very much….

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Hare Krishna Today Evening is Diwali and I’ll speak today on the topic of light and darkness. When we talk about this theme, 1 of the most famous, 1 of the most famous उपनिषदिक statements is move from darkness to light.

And in 1 sense, if you look at our own lives, nobody wants to be in darkness. Even if somebody wants to do something in darkness, somebody wants to rob or steel but they want to have enough lights so that they can do it but they don’t want others to see the have a light to see them. So in that sense, nobody actually wants darkness. The what we we all who would not want to go from darkness to light. Everybody goes in light is where we can see, we can act, we can do things but then this if it’s, it’s a simple commas is directive go from darkness to light.

But what does it mean? Actually, if you look at the context, there are 3 things over there. So go from, go from in mortality to mortality. That go from that which is unreal to that which is real. So now in that is the context where this call comes up, go from darkness to light.

So darkness is associated with temporariness and darkness is associated with unreality and go from darkness to light. When this statement comes up in the उपनिषदs, we see in the broad वैदिक body of knowledge, what is taught in the उपनिषदs that is in so many ways demonstrated in the पुराणा and the इतिहास. So historically, दीवाली celebrated when the residence of अयोध्या are delighted and they are belcoming lord रामबैक. And when they are belcoming the lord back at that time, they offer him, they light the whole अयोध्या with lands, to sign to welcome him and that also represents the lighting of their own hearts. So so, the ultimate light of the heart comes when our heart becomes illuminated by the presence of the supremely luminous weak that is the supreme law.

So I’ll talk about this theme of the festival of lights in terms of 4 quadrants. Say it is that as we we are talking here about not just simple like and darkness, but the light of knowledge, spiritual knowledge. It helps us to see the ultimate reality. So we could say that the 4 quadrants are we are in dark dark and we know we are in dark. That’s so not dark.

State and awareness. We are in dark, we are aware, we are in dark. We are in dark, but we think we are in light. We are in light, but we think we are in dark. And we are in light and we know we are in light.

So, which is the best state to be in? The light, the we are in light and to be aware that we are in light. Which is the worst state to be in. We are in dark but we think we are in. See, actually, from a emotional perspective, from an experiential perspective, to be in dark and to think that we are in to know that we are in dark is most painful.

But we will get out of it. Because it’s unbearable, it’s unbelievable state to me. But to be in dark and to think that we are in light. So that is, we could say if you want to give 1 1 identifying describer for each of these. So to be in dark and to know that we are in dark is to be, looser.

To be in dark and the thing that we are in light is to be deluidd. We are illluid. We are illusion. We are deluid because of the illusion. To be in light and to not know that we are in light.

To be light and to think that we are in dark that is the state of doubtfulness And to be in light and to know that we are in light, that is the state of enlightenment, to be enlightened. So, here, if we consider when we live in the world, when we say we are in dark, if if we are driving along the road and suddenly everything is dark. Not only are there no lights on the road, but even our own cars headlight street lights, headlights go away. Then we will come to a stop. Should I move forward?

What should I do? What should I not do? So to be dark and to be in the state of darkness, to be aware that we are in dark. That means to to be in a state where we don’t know what to do. And then at that time we look, what should I do?

What should I do at that time? So अर्जुन at the start of the भगवत गीता was in the first initially in second quarterent. He was of course अर्जुना is enlightened soul but कृष्णा is teaching us something through him and therefore what कृष्णा does is? He uses a particular method. He puts अर्जुना into rule.

So अर्जुना has a plan for his life, he is a क्षत्रिय and a क्षेत्रीय he has to fight a war, he has to gain the kingdom which has been stored from his family and he wants to have judicial and throw it as a king. But then he starts, is this fight worth it? So much blood shed, so much killing of loud ones, what is really worth it? And then when he says नचय तत्व with माँ कतर नो गरीबों, यत्वा जेयो यानि बह् ध्वा नजीविशामस, तेयवस्थिता प्रभु केदार तस्त्रा I just don’t see any good option. All options are bad over here.

So that is the state when he surrenders to कृष्णा. So he is initially in that second stage but he comes to the first first quarter second quarter to first quadrant. And that’s the in the भगुरि that takes अर्जुन of a journey on the first quadrant to the fourth quadrant. Fourth quadrant is where he becomes enlightened. Now for all of us, we also come at times in our lives and we have particular plans for our life, this is what I’m going to do, this is what I’m going to do.

And some plans work, some don’t work, we keep moving on. कि इस life time कि इस पिछली very very very school इन थिस ए कि इस विधि thing व धुंध अट ऑल I was once giving a class on this 03:27 भगवत गीता. Class and at that time, this I asked this question the बबीता says that is done by the more than want to think that they are the durs are an illusion. So this raises many questions. So what are the questions that I raised?

So I was thinking expecting that you know how we do things how is the mores are doing actually. We work and everything. So 1 devotee is known in the devotee community to be quite lazy person. So he asked what question comes? What question comes why should I do anything?

If the modes I do everything and why should I do anything? The time for प्रसाद comes you don’t ask why should I do anything. Where you can do it प्रसाद where where it comes for for us in the साधक stage, eating and sleeping are the most cherished past times. And then hearing and चांटing, they are like the oster prescribed duties. So, actually, when we say that the more they are doing everything, what is the need to do anything?

So in this stage when we are in the fourth quadrant, we we genuinely feel I just don’t know what to do. And that is the time most likely we seek notch. But many people live in the second quadrant because the first quadrant is more or less unlable. We had to get out of that as quickly as possible. Now where we get out that depends on our past inclination, that depends on association, that depends on our free will.

So most people go to the second quarter where they think their knowledge but they don’t actually know. Then darkness, they think that they are in light. In fact, 1 of the names for the राक्षस आज़ाद is निशाचर. निशाचर is those who move at night. So now, physically there is darkness but actually their vision becomes more acute.

Like, aws who can see very well at night. They also become active at night. The night is a good time to act and to attack and everything like that. So when we are in the second quadrant where we think we do. The result of that is that we don’t even try to come out of our come out of come to real light, cause we think we are in light.

And this is where the 2 energies of illusion. There are 2 energies are, अवर्णात्मिका शक्ति and प्रक्षेपात्मका शक्ति. So it is a covering potential and the throwing potential. So to understand this through energy in simple ways we can consider a movie theatre. As soon as we enter in the movie theatre, 1 light goes off and another light goes on.

So the lights around us, all of them go off. And then we can’t see much around us. That’s the अवनात्मिका शक्ति. Everything else we can’t see. And then the parakshipaat का शक्ति is 1 light goes on.

So then we just our attention gets glued to the screen. तो our consciousness gets hold towards that. So at that time we get caught in a particular illusion that we projected and we start experiencing that to be the reality. So most of us we live in the state and it is not often that we remember that we’re living over here. That is, we could say about the conception of life within which we can all take up various causes.

So within this somebody can live sub toward just तमस more or less enlightened states or more or less aware states. But they are spiritually unaware states. And in the last few centuries, scientific knowledge is advanced tremendously and the result of that is more and more people have come to the second level and they think that is the enlighten level. Now when the, let’s let’s this second level. The third level would be what?

We are in knowledge. We are in light, but we don’t know we are in light. Just do think we are in the office. The problem with the world is actually not ignorance. The problem with the world is that the wise people are doubtful and the foolish people are ultra confident.

Those who don’t know anything perfectly sure this is how it is. So, we see when we practice भक्ति many times we might questions this spiritual world really exists, कृष्णा really care for me rat in that. There are so many questions. But when people pursue materialistic goals. No doubt at all.

If I just get this promotion my life is going to be successful. If I just get this I wrote a book on reincarnation. And I answered questions lot of questions. 1 of the most amusing questions and asked me that and love the girl and both want to get married but somehow our family are violently opposed. And it’s not working So can you tell me what कर्म I can do so that I can marry her in my next life?

So in Bollywood there is a lot of depiction of reorganization and reorganization is used primarily as a plot twist to just extend. Ok there is a tragedy in this life but then there is a union in the next life. So the conception of roin coordination has been romanticized quite a bit. Romanticized and sensationalize. So many people have this idea of soul mate.

You know how can we find our soul mate? I usually say first find your soul. So when we are, when we have kind of desire, at that time, we may have knowledge even if we have knowledge of reorganization. But there is knowledge and there is a purpose of knowledge. So if we are not aware of the purpose of knowledge, then that knowledge doesn’t have much value.

I may know how to operate a complicated computer. But if I don’t really know what a computer is meant to be used for. And I just use a very high end computer simply for playing video games. Then in the computer I can do a lot more things but then I may have that knowledge but I don’t really understand that I am in knowledge. I am in light but I don’t realize I am in light.

So, many people who say grow up in a spiritual culture, who grow up in a spiritual society, spiritual society, spiritual family, they have knowledge but they are not really aware that they have that knowledge. And because of that, they’re always looking outward, looking elsewhere for something else. He is an American thinker, Mark Din, he said that when I was 15, my father was a fool. Now he’s 25 and I’m amazed how much the old guy has learned in the last 10 years. Sir now it’s not so much the old guy that the father has learned But the way that person thinks at 15, the way person thinks at 25 is very different.

So 15 and just 30 many hormones are coming out and I just wants to be free. But by 25 1 more taking a whole responsibility. Then 1 start appreciating other prospective also. So even if 1 has knowledge, 1 has wisdom, 1 has light, but 1 doesn’t realize that they have light, then that is a state also of deprivation. And beyond that is a state of the fourth quadrant.

What is that? Light. Yeah, we have light and we are aware that we have light. So for those of us who have started practicing भक्ति, we are, to some extent in the we oscillatd. Not that we are permanently in 1 quadrant, but to some extent we are in third quadrant.

We’re trying to move towards the fourth quadrant. So now if we consider what is the what is the ultimate light? You could say the light of knowledge. Yes, that is true, but it’s more than knowledge. Ultimately, there is a source of knowledge.

And that source of knowledge is the supreme person and that supreme person is all attractive, is all loving. And the भगवत गीता says that the ultimate light is the light that comes from devotion. चक्षु श्लोकी भगवत गीता is a कृष्ण first says I am the supreme, those who understand him, they become they become wise and they constantly delight in discussing about me and the next But then what if somebody knows कृष्णा but they don’t become voice. Then कृष्ण answers that in 10:10. And he says for them, I make them voice.

प्रीतिपूर्वक ultimate knowledge is the knowledge comes from भक्ति. So the because ultimately we don’t just know to know, belong to love. The heart’s deepest long thing is not a longing for knowledge. It’s a longing for love, loving connection, loving relationship. And that comes when we find the ultimate object of love.

So भगवता says the ultimate enlightenment is to know whom to love. The whole heart. You understand that कृष्णा is the ultimate object of love. That is enlighten the enlighten state. So सर्ववीर is a person knows everything.

So coming to the, so this is the philosopher context and coming to the रामायण now, which is the historical context for this particular दीवाली festival. The whole idea is that if we consider in the रामायण, राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम राम then if you consider कई At least when she has ram exiled she think she knows what is going on. She think as a conspiracy effort to to deploy her son of the kingship and that’s why she vohmantly protests. Then she is in the second quadrant. Where, now of course you can also say there राम रिटर्न्स it is the बृजवास AYYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA अट थे long गाउन भारत कि इस note ready टो have any रॉयल रॉयल कंफर्ट्स अट ऑल कि चीज़ वेटिंग if यू don’t कम after 14 years यू can even वन डे लेट सचिव find ए dead body आई don’t believe any फुर्थर कि दिल्ली tax राम उत्पादक please give me your shoes, the sandals and I will put them on the thrown.

Now, if today’s world say there is a maybe a big wealthy person die and their children are fighting. And 1 brother use the shoe for the other brother. The other brother will take it and bang on his head. Not carry on his own head. So often there are succession struggles which break out in the succession struggles are being of usually because of selfishness.

I want everything. In the रामायण also after the shuttle’s departure is a succession struggle. Succession conflict is there but that succession conflict is because of selflessness. That both of them are saying राम is saying भारत you be the king, भारत सिंह राम you be the king. So that is extraordinary.

So although So although भरत has the great devotion but still he feels in the separation from राम, my life and heart is dark. And does there is illusion, there is delusion. There is distress not illusion but distress. And generally, in when the lord descends to the world, see is it that every single person when when the lord listens to the world, is everyone already a pure devotee? What do you think?

In the lord remains? Well, there are certainly the ultimate associates of the lord who are already exulted devotees. But there are others who are fortunate to be there and they become animated. So even at that time, when the lord performs some miracle activities, lord said does something extraal, then that attracts people. And even when he is there, it’s not that everybody is convinced that he is the lord, not that everybody is devoted to it.

So, there are people who are in the presence of the lord but they don’t necessarily accept him as the lord. Of course the demons are there, they are in the presence but some of them accept, some of them don’t accept. विभीषण comes over to राम साहेब and in विभीषण not only comes over to राम साहेब for the war but विभीषण also comes for the coordination. Abbreviation gives the पुष्पका, with which राम returns to अयोध्या. So if the lord when the festival of lights which is which happens in अयोध्या that is a historical event but that is also a eternal event that is meant to happen in our own hearts.

Our heart is a अयोध्या and we might be in any of the other 3 quadrants and we pray that the that the light of भक्ति, the light of प्रेमा luminaar heart and we really really initial that lumination. That is what we aspire for and whatever level we might be at if you are the first, second or third quarterance the law is attractive enough to bring us to him. Where we may be if we have doubts with third quarter can play to the law that we find out the way is by which is doubts can be destroyed So, usually if we consider, if we have desires, we move, if we have doubts, we don’t move. Also doubts and desires are 2 forces that come from a settle box. And usually if somebody is in the first quadrant, just don’t know what to do.

They have doubts and they have no desires. Or is everything worth doing at all. So from there, the doubts are removed and then emotional divine desires are create. भक्ति is the process where we desire to love itself the lord and do as much as we can to share his glories with others. Sometimes we go to the second quadrant because we have a lot of desires and And get caught those desires.

So then in that case sometimes the darkness is cause because of the presence of doubts, Subway that darkness is cause because of the presence of world desires. Then from there we need, purification in the sense of the removal of desire. And then, as those desires get removed, then we start moving towards the light. Sometimes, we meet in the third quadrant where we have spiritual knowledge but still we have a lot of doubts. And for us the elevation to an life, journey to an enlightenment requires the removal of the doubts.

The removal of the doubts is what will take us towards the lord. So, we all have doubts. But what our challenge is not, the problem is not having doubts. The problem is believing our doubts. Yeah, even we believe our doubts, we need to, what happens is often we believe our doubts and we doubt our believes.

But instead, we can learn ok, this is a doubt. But maybe the doubt is not the ultimate. We can doubt our doubts. Let me evaluate it. So there are proper ways in which we can address our doubts.

But whatever it is that is keeping us in darkness, we pray that the lord remove it from our heart. As the lord remove it from our heart, then this state of enlightenment. It’s state where we are in light and we appreciate that we are in light, that manifest in our life and that happens by the mercy of the lord and his devotees. So on special festivals like दीवाली, the Lord’s mercy is available more and more and श्री प्रभुपा has given us the कृष्ण consciousness movement where we can get this light and we can get the awareness of this light. And if we stay in the social devotees and seek this light, seek the light of, light of प्रेमा, light of film भक्ति.

Then the Lord’s blessings are there for every 1 of us to elevate his upward. So although it was an अयोध्या itself, the conspiracy had happened by which the lord was sent away, but still the lord came back. So the lord, although the अयोध्या was he sent Lord Ram away, but Lord Ram had abandoned him. So similarly for us, even if we have turned away from the lord, the lord never turns away from us. He is always with us.

His love for us is not based on our goodness. His love for us is based on his godliness. Means, we may be pious, we may be impire, we may be pure, we may be impure. His love for us is not based on that. Every 1 he offers is love.

And wherever somebody might be, he just turn towards the lord. Then he is ready to illumin each and every heart with the supreme light of भक्ति. And that is what we can pray for on the second occasion of दीवाली. Pray to the lord and pray the lord’s great devotees so that they can bless our heart and this festival of light can happen not just through the beautiful lights that we light outside our homes but also through the light of spiritual knowledge and the right of divine law of भक्ति that illumance our heart. So I summarize, I spoke today on this topic of दीपाली and I spoke of how this famous saying in the उपनिषदs go from light, darkness to light is illustrated in the epigx, stressed the रामायण.

So, it is not just talking about simple physical darkness to physical light, we’re talking about the darkness that keeps us in mortality and in and ignorance or असत्त, non existant in the temporary. From there we move to immortality and reality, that what is that light to understand that I talk about this 4 quadrants. What are the first quadrant? Misrable. Misrable.

So we are in dark and we are aware that we are in dark. We want to get out of it. Most people can’t stay there for very long. But if we are there, it seems miserable but it can also be the dog away to fortune. Or second quadrant?

Deilivision. Deilivision. We are in ताकन, but we think we are in light. So that is the path of material progress to the exclusion of spiritual progress. So we have a light to pursue only things, but we don’t recognize that they are all ultimately temporary.

And from this sector to come out is not so easy. We have to either come down or go to the higher sector for the third 1, doubt, that is, we have lie, we have li but we do not realize that we have lite. That is a state when we are caught in a state where we don’t appreciate what we have and many spiritual many of us as such as are in that state. We may oscillat between various various states but the fourth state is the state of we are in light, enlightenment, we are in light and we know that we are in light. So we can say that when there is when there are doubts, doubts and desires are 2 obstructions.

The doubts and worldly desires we could say. So whatever be the obstacle the light or the light light can remove both of them. Light can expose to us the futility of the wholely desires and light can expose to us the hollowness of our doubts and through that we can move towards the state of enlightenment and for each 1 of us wherever we are, the lord always is there with us. अयोध्यावासी send the lord away the lord still came back, lord didn’t abandon him. So the lord’s love for us is not based on our goodness but on his godliness.

He is all loving parent of everyone and if you just turn towards him and seek his prayers and seek his mercy, he will elevate us from wherever we may be. Thank you very much. हरे कृष्णा. Any questions? Yes, please.

So, you mentioned that the we intend to be in the third and fourth quarter where we are in, say, performing भक्ति in the mode of darkness as a state. That is a dangerous state. Yes, it is that if we don’t know anything about कृष्णा then we may do wrong in the sense of being a committeds. But if we know about कृष्णा still keep doing wrong then may be well will be offences. And offences are often more dangerous in the sense.

That’s 1 way of looking at it. Other ways also that we cannot wish away the modes that we were born with. We want to work them, work ourselves out of them, we gonna work them away. But we are, we are born with a particular mode. So so we could that that whole section I have been a series of 3 classes on भक्ति in the 3 modes.

But that whole section illustrates can see from 2 perspective. 1 is that when we are practicing भक्ति you can’t assume that just because I am practicing भक्ति I am transdental. That I have to see in which mode I am functioning. And we try to elevate ourselves to a progressively higher level of consciousness. And, so especially if somebody is performing भक्ति in the mode of ignorance and in the state of darkness and they think what I am doing is equivalent to what a pure devotey is doing or what a devotey is goodness is doing, then that is when the problem comes up.

But if the other perspective is that भक्ति is so inclusive that even somebody in तमोगुणा can practice it. The practices like ज्ञान or योगा, it is very very difficult for somebody who doesn’t have some strong level of support to practice. So we can say that that भक्ति is inclusive in the sense that even those who are the lowest of modes can also start practicing भक्ति. But the practice of the practice of भक्ति is that, ok, that we rise from the lower modes higher. So it is कृष्णा’s love that he accepts even those who are functioning in the mode of ignorance.

But what is if we stay in the mode of ignorance then where is our love for question? So we need to strike to rise. So we don’t reject somebody who is in the mode of ignorance. So if so if somebody just functionally that way, then they’ll function in that way itself and is that dangerous? Well, it’s dangerous if they are complainant and they think that this is equal into what anybody else is doing.

But if it is, if that is the only way they will get elevated, Then they had to accommodate it. You can consider the प्रभु पाल how he dealt with many of the hippies during the counter culture. He accommodated them. Many of them when they would come for classes, they would come high on drugs And from the children calm them down and try to speak them. If प्रभुपाद that said that, that nobody who is high, they should not come for the class.

There will nobody left for the class. So प्रभुपाल was a community. Mister प्रभुपाल did not, प्रबल accepted them. So there is a there is a, there are there are 2 aspects in in the practice of भक्ति. 1 is accepting people where they are and second is encouraging them to rise up world.

So sometimes if we just only accept, then they may not rise at all. And if you only emphasize on rising but do not accept where they are, then they feel very uncomfortable and they feel judged and rejected. So both aspects are required and accept people where they are but also show them the hierarchy. We don’t hide the hierarchy that the trajectory. What hierarchy can sound a little sectary and let you know judgmental but that is a trajectory.

This is the path we are all meant to move up. So we need to do the right thing. When somebody needs acceptance we offer them that. When somebody needs a little push to rise up and that also needs to be offered. Do I answer your question?

Yes. We had दीवाली was celebrated when राम was coming back from back to अयोध्या. And also in कृष्णा लीला, दामोदर past time happened on the दीवाली deal. Correct. But in India from when we grow up, we hear that कृष्णा killing narkasur is a cause for दीवाली.

But where this comes from or what is the difference for that? Ok, so कृष्णा killing narkasur is also the cause for दीवाली. Well, if you consider historically many festivals in India are are clustered together. So, if you can say दीवाली for 4 5 days, there is बलिपतिपदा is there. When बलि मरा surrenders to the lord.

That is also 1 day. Then there are many other festivals which also come at the same time. Usually, the लक्ष्मी पूजा that is done. So what is, what happened traditionally in India was that that while there was understanding there 1 supreme lord, but there were many other, the 1 who lord himself was worshiped in many forms and there are other देवताs also were worshiped. So over the centuries, many of the festivals are clubed together.

And I saw कृष्णा, Killen Arkasur there is रूपा गोस्वामी says their शास्त्र प्रमाण and there is a लोक प्रमाण. In the भक्त श्यामा संधू he says. So as far as the भागोतन doesn’t give a date specifically of when when नरकासुर was killed. It doesn’t mentioned that. But most much of what we celebrate the festivals and specific ways in the celebrate the festivals.

That doesn’t always come from शास्त्र. That comes from the tradition. So a लोक coming it’s not just public opinion what he says is that लोकाहिया refers to those who are already those लोका people who are already devoted to the lord their understanding. So for example, if you go to उंदावन many varjvasis devotees were really devoted their life to वृंदावन and to कृष्णा. They may tell many stories about कृष्णा which you may not find directly in the शास्त्रs.

Those don’t necessarily have to be rejected just because they are not found in the शास्त्र. They can be accepted in लोक भ्रमण. So quite often the exact dates of many festivals, they may or may not come from शास्त्र, they may come from the tradition. Thank you. But is there a date mentioned, I don’t think the date is mentioned.

The date? I mean, it is in the 1 of the chapters. I know, but but, you are saying, this question was that, why is it associated with दीवाली? Oh, why, it is not mentioned Ok. So couple of questions.

So third quadrant. In the talk or some people out of hermity they have come back was their school wants to switch the some of the bodys also out of hermity or they mentioned it. Do they also follow in the same career? They are in light but they mouth. It’s a good question.

Ok, first disclaimer. That any kind of categorization that we do, all categorizations are conceptual tools. Reality never fall falls very neatly into categories. So if you consider a map, now a map, you may say this is America and this is Canada. But if you actually go geographic curly, you don’t mind that.

Which is this is this place in America or this place in Canada? There could be dispute about that. If you said, ok, this river is the. Well, is it that 50 percent of the water, the river is belonging to America, 50 percent to America. You can solve any kind of conceptual categorization that we do, we can always place, we can all, when real life when we apply that categorization, it is not everything is not so neatly fitting into categories.

So categorization is often a tool to understand things and so we for example, we say there are 4 categories of people who come to question. And we say ध्रुवा was अर्थार्थy. He was, he was seeking wealth. But then ध्रुवा was also अर्थो, isn’t it? He also very distressed.

He was felt so afflicted by his mother’s words that he he just left home. Be unable to hear the reflection. So we could any categorization is not necessarily black and white. So with that disclaimer, to move forward, we can say that there are, there are उत्तम अधिकारीs, there are मध्यम अधिकारीs. So, उत्तम अधिकारीs are those who see the world as filled with only devotees and they cannot really breach, they cannot really give कृष्ण not very much because everybody has कृष्ण.

Everybody is already serving कृष्णा. But who can give कृष्णा? Those are मध्यमाले. They can see, ok, this person is practicing भक्ति. This person is not practice भक्ति and whatever is stopping this person to practicing भक्ति let me help them to remove that.

Now when great वैष्णव’s they act humbly or big big compositions. So that is a state where they are seeing the greatness of कृष्णा so much and their experiencing the love of कृष्णा so much, they think what am I doing to reciprocate with it. And when that awareness of कृष्णा greatness and कृष्णा love is so prominent that they feel whatever I am doing is nothing and does they feel oh कृष्ण has done so much for me. I had nothing for कृष्णा. I am such a followers.

I am such a safer. So that that is because a very high level of awareness of कृष्णा. So which which category would it fall in? You could say it could fall in third. But it is we also understand it is they that is out of their humidity, out of their great absorption in कृष्णा and they are when we say they are taking the role of a साधिका.

It doesn’t mean they are artificial doing that They actually feel like that. But they feel like that because they think कृष्णा is so great and I am so small. So you could say that they are the third category. Yeah. The second loud, just loud.

What is that mean love? When you say from that perspective because everybody has their own definitions. So if you can share something. Ok, yeah. So everybody has their own definition of love.

Yeah, I have a full class 1 5 of the definition of love love is love is emotion, love is attraction, as emotion is if you feel, we feel love in somebody’s presence, love as attraction. Some, I am in love. If you feel overwhelming attracted to that person. Love as expectation. You don’t love me anymore.

That is love as expectation. Then there is love as action. There is love as love as express to action. There is love is not just now it’s also work. Yeah, love is love love is done through what what is what is needed for the other person, we do that.

And action that leads further to love is dedication. Not just through action, but we are committed. Love is commitment or dedication. There are various aspects of love. So similarly, if you consider भक्ति, many people when they talk about भक्ति they think of भक्ति as emotion.

When I come to the temple I feel so good. I feel so good. They say that when I have the भाव in my heart then I will chand the whole lives. Then I will surrender my life to कृष्ण. Now the problem is that भाव there is a भाव.

There is no भाव there is a shortage of that kind of भाव always and emotion is not there. So the way the has explained भक्ति you could say that also devotion love or divine love. It is it is not an emotion. It is not even expectation. So शीलनम means cultivation.

So devotion is not just emotion, but it is essentially conscious continuous cultivation. Conscious continuous cultivation. That is the essence. If we start focusing on love us emotion, love us expectation, love us attraction then we may sometimes feel it and sometimes not feel it at all. So 1 day we feel oh I love कृष्णा.

I leave the whole world and just surrender my whole life to कृष्णा. Next day if he does कृष्णा even exist? So we will also like that. That’s why we need to focus on this the idea of love as action and love as dedication. Translate भक्ति also not just as devotion whereas devotional service.

So love and if we are trying to develop our love profession that means we focus on love as action and dedication. Nothing much thank you. Yes, how much. प्रभु जी this is more a comment and I ask you. Thank you this is the first time I heard that bhagalgam was could the report of the was be and I haven’t read propars burbo.

I think every religion or philosophy has its share of manatical people and sometimes I have observed that the most religious people happen to be the least tolerant and the most judgement is the point of the knowledge and the purpose of the knowledge to always look inward subjectively ask ourselves among these 4 quadrants where are my and not about why is this person or that person? Is often used more for proving than for improving. Instead of improving my own consciousness, we focus on proving I am right. So instead of developing our own love for कृष्णा, we often focus on proving what you are doing in कृष्णा, service is wrong. So that becomes a big problem.

Yeah. So the inward focus is always good and ultimately, that’s what is in our control. There is a, for that, you could have there’s another, I have another class with 4 quadrants. I won’t go into that, I can make make it briefly. There is, there is concern for people and concern for process.

So, if you could say again 4 quarters, there is no concern for people and no concern for process. It’s a process whether it’s it’s people, they can include ourselves, concern for improving ourselves and concern for how do I go about improving myself? Our concern for improving others and how do I go about improving others? So if there is no concern for either people or process, that is millism. That millism is just life has no meaning, why do anything at all.

And if there is concern for process but not people. It is like say, if you consider a a surgeon who is extremely mateiculous that they want to follow all the protocols exactly. This is how the surgeon is to be, this is how it is been, this this this this this. It’s good to have concern for the process but suppose the patient has some other complications because of the process can’t be followed and we follow it, that’s going to be disaster for the patient. This is what has to be followed, that’s all that there is sweet, Concern for people not process.

Sorry, concern for process not for people. So though these people usually become sentiment. Sorry, they become fanatic. They become fanatics. This is what has to be done.

The whole concern is that’s all. No no questions asked. Say, say then, so there is very little concern for context over there. And such people can become very hard hearted. Then there are others who are there is concern for people but no concern for process.

They are the people who become relatives. Ok, this doesn’t work for you, just give it. That works for you do it. So there there is only concern for people, no concern for process. So if if this, if this feels, if this feels bad for you, just don’t do it.

So we could say that these are now fanatics and relatives. These are more, we could say more extreme versions of these 2. But you would also have conservative and liberals. Liberals have a greater concern for people than process and conservative have a greater concern for process than people and actually, both are needed. You, if you want to do a surgery, you have to follow the process.

But you also have to see the background of the patient and then you have to see how that process works for the person. Sometimes it happens that, now we we give up, it happened with me once that I was, there is always the zeal of the new convert. So I was just 1 and 1 and a half years and I was working in a company. So 1 of my colleagues, he has been a co student with me in my college also. So both of us joined the same company.

So we were, we would, so I would go for the bus, so it’s 1 hour ride and he would join 2 stop later. And then when I was in the 1 hour ride, I would daily either chant or read or hear some class, I would not talk with anyone at all. And 1 day his friend made the big mistake. His mistake was he asked me what are you doing? And then in the next 1 hour I gave him the ultimate crash course on भगवत गीता from the existence of god to the existence of soul to the establishing that भक्ति is the only way and कृष्णा is the only supreme god and does the sbruttal world is full with misery and the spiritual world is a source of all happiness and I didn’t even notice that his eyes were looking.

He is very overwhelm. There after that normally bus has 2 doors. So after that whenever he would climb to the bus, he will first keep in see where I am sitting and then coming from the other door. So I think 1 and half 2 years ago I met him in Catel and then his sister has become a devotee, probably sister under the damage that I had done. So that we talk about we have a good laugh, I apologize to him.

So what happens sometimes, we just think that, I, you know, I for some people, the idea of preaching is simply downloading a fix program on everyone. This is it, just tell them, कनहरे कृष्णा be happy. It’s good but you know, you have to see what where they are coming from, is that message intelligible for them? You just look at their contacts and then speak so when they have that, when some people have their idea that, this is the program, just download on everyone. Then what happens is, the भगवत गीता once applies you know, our pitching successful and the soul becomes liberated.

They go never to come back to the weapon. So we have to have concern for the process and concern for people both. Then that is, so the fourth quarter will be the spiritualists. Those who are spiritual they understand the process and they understand the productive other process. So, yes this is the protocol we follow for this surgery but ultimately, the point is not just to follow the protocol, the point is to heal the person.

This third quarter could be somebody uses. The patient says, don’t know the surgery will cause me a lot of pain. So, the doctor says, I want to do the surgery only. Well, no. We have to do it.

We have to do in the proper way. So, yes, fanatics, fanatics are a problem, sentimentalities are also a problem. So, conservative and liberals both are needed. And in some cases so who is right? There is no guarantee there is no fixed answer.

Sometimes it is the process that needs to be emphasized. We can’t adjust everything. But sometimes it is people need to look at this person’s context and then do act accordingly. The answer your question. Thank you.

How can we ensure that we don’t get new people we also encourage those who are practicing to move on. Yes, to some extent अभी we think of कृष्ण consciousness to be like an automatic process. It’s like a railway if it come on the rail track is automatically go to destination. So our concern is is to get more and more people, more and more compartments on the rail track. But then it will not automatically good, can get deraried, can get stalled.

So we need to make sure not just that we get more source of the highway to कृष्ण express way to कृष्णा. We also help them to move on ward. And for that purpose we need to appreciate different definitions of success in भक्ति. Traditionally our movement as function based on 3 definitions of success. 1 is how many books are distributed, how many devotees are made and how many temples are built or how many या how many devotees are made in कुर्सी?

You could say 4 division, how temples are built whatever basically. So how many temples are made, how many devotees made, how many books is to dod. 3? Yeah 3. So now these are all definitions in terms of outrage.

Now getting new people to come. There are a source, books are looking books and resources. Building temples are there is resource making new world is also 1 thing. But प्रभु पाल himself said that we need to boil the milk. And the problem is that boiling the milk is something which is not so easily quantifable.

And because we live in a very राजस्व culture, in the mode of passion, so we it’s it’s much easier to motivate ourselves for doing things that I have quantif results. So when we do outrage, there are quantifyable results. This much we funds we raised to build the temple or this many books will be student. But then if we sit and spend time with devotees, there is a As interaction how do you, how are you going to quantify that? So we need to certain certain definitions of success will be highlighted or memorized.

Just like say in India it is that. If you are not, if you are not an engineer, if you said parents of another idea, if child does not become an engineer or doctor, then he has become a failure. And it is like that. So certain in every every society certain definitions of success will be glamorized and others will consequently be down play. But we, as a community, need to even if there are certain definitions that are highlighted, we also need to appreciate other definitions of success.

And कृष्णा will send people who will who will appreciate who will be inspired by particular definition of success. Say for example some devotees may get a lot of inspiration in in they are more like proudfulers. They can get they can do big program and attract a lot of people. Some devotees may be more comfortable and more expert in maybe teaching something like भक्तिशास्त्र. Where the tech devotees भक्तिशास्त्र.

भक्ति we were lead deep in the शास्त्र. This many people came to the sample or this many people took initiation or whatever. So, if there are devotees in a community who are inspired by definitions of success which are centered on cultivate, Centreed on not just a cultivating you people but a cultivating exist in the words. Then they need to be encouraged. They need to be facilitated.

It’s so whatever is whatever is appreciated will naturally be adopted. अच्छा. We all need encouragement in life. So if I if I if this is appreciated, this is appreciated appreciated I want to do this. So we need to, for example if we have retreats for devote programs for devotees.

Then they need to be appreciated. Then they need to be organized, the organizers of those who take all that trouble, they need to be appreciated for that or which whichever programs nourish devotees, we have to think what what is it that will nourish devotees. And if we start it as a as a as a part of the community leaders, we can ourselves take it up or we can encourage others to take it up. And who are doing that we appreciate. That’s that’s something which each 1 of us can do.

And the more we start doing that we will find that the activities that नरेश will also be done more and more. And sometimes it’s again with care also, it’s not it’s not uniform what will be felt as care by someone. For some devotees, it might be that just give them the facility to do outreach. Give them the facility to reach out to lot of new people and that’s what makes them feel kid. They don’t come and sit and talk and tell me how things are going on.

I want to go out this books. Okay, that’s what they want. And we will be facility, ok, I have got this contact for you. You can go this book fair and do this. Oh, thank you very much.

Thank you very much. So we have to see that, what is it that devotee value what is it devotee appreciate. So it’s 1 thing is it’s a so 1 thing as I said we appreciate different deficients of success and the feficol success which are which are center on cultivation and nursing devotees we appreciate those also. Another aspect is that for each devotee there are certain things which make them feel nourished. And we can we need to understand devotees at individual level also.

कि what what would mean, what will make this notice finisheded? And then we see according to our capacity how much can we provide that? Say that in the network of instruction that Christian conscious movement is nourished by the 6 fold loving exchanges. So, those are specially hearing in confidence and letting others are speaking giving our hard in confidence, those things which are very important. And if there is, there are adequate forums for that, that itself can be very narishing.

So we need to change that our, our definition of success. That a case spending quality time with devotees just hearing them understanding them. That itself can make make us been knowledgeed. So if we broader our definition of success then the internal management can also happen more. Thank you.

Thank you for this amazing. I had 1 question. Still you have doubts and then you are like lost. So I just wanted to Ok, good question. So is having doubts a sign of intelligence?

But then if we keep here scriptures still have doubt, we say we are lost. So the भागवत ने third can’t to, in coupleestive चीज़ें सीधे सीधे. संमछयो अथर्व पर yes the character of intelligence are doubt then a statement and then it goes on. So it’s only a vice person can doubt. Say for example, you get a email which says just reply to this email and you will get 1000000 dollars.

I’ll get 1000000 dollars, right? On the internet when whenever usually whenever any product is offered free. Then usually it is we are the product who are we bought. Our time, our consciousness, our attachments that are being in time. So it requires wisdom to doubt.

So we could consider that if we are driving, Then when we are driving that is the the car has a gas has accelerator and it has a break. So the accelerator is feet and doubt is the break. So while we are driving we need to have both functional. If the car is, if I am driving and I am going off the track. If I am becomey and juerkey and am I going on the right track?

You can put a break and slow down. So, we need break when when we are hearing something and it doesn’t make sense. Oh stop stop stop what’s going on can you explain this some doubt. So doubt is only if you are hearing and hearing intelligently will be have doubts. If if we are hearing completely possibly that means something comes in from 1 year and then it just for some people at least it goes out to the other year, some people goes out to same year only.

Then we will have no doubts. So that happens so it’s even here internationally then we will have some doubts. So doubts are like breaks however the problem is not doubts. So doubt is a sign of intelligence but doubt is not the only sign of intelligence. That means if somebody just presses the break and doesn’t release it only.

There they will not get any event. So if you are on the wrong track, we are or we are going off track we need to press the break but we can’t keep pressing the break all the thing. So the doubts are a sign of intelligence but if we never put faith. So it’s interesting कृष्णा says that श्रद्धावान लभते ज्ञानं in 04:40 says it is faithful who gain knowledge. That means it’s like if I am going from a, going on a journey from darkness to light, from एक development to knowledge then I had to have some faith.

Ok, if I hear this, if I read this book, if I hear this class, I will gain some understanding. That’s why faith is like the accelerator. But some people if they just do not use their interview and they say I have faith. But then it’s like they are driving driving without any break. So faith is good but faith should be the faith should be acompanied by the use of intelligence.

The answer your question is? Thank you. Yes, we had a question. Can you please emphasize on the points that upper is more than those are seeing. Kervic consequences.

Where, so we do wrong and we get some results of that. But April is something which which takes us away from कृष्णा. Which which replaces our attraction for कृष्णा with either apapathy for कृष्णा or a virgion to कृष्णा. And say, even if somebody has done something wrong, still they’re attracted to कृष्णा. Then they will come back and they will purify themselves.

That is the import of that was 09:30 and 30 when the भगवत गीता were कृष्ण says So even if somebody does something wrong and grievancely wrong, so but if they stay determined, I am going to सर्व कृष्ण. This is a terrible thing that I did, I regret but I am going to सर्व कृष्ण. Then that connection with कृष्णा will purify them and will establish them in धर्म. But if somebody commits a प्राण to कृष्णा, प्राण to कृष्णा devoteings, then they lose their taste for कृष्णा and then they will never get purified. So then sooner or later the world’s temptation will attract them and track them down further.

So in that sense, offending devotees or offending कृष्णा is more dangerous than simply being belongs. Thank you very much for your attention and participation. It is wonderful being here in Columbus. Is that a comment or question? Sir, thank you very much.

I would have to ask you last question. You said that there are 4 class of your post or lord कृष्णा and कृष्णा devotees the whiches in कृष्णा Ok, is it that we are when we are trying to share कृष्णा conscious, we are focusing on those who are looking for कृष्णा? Not necessary looking for कृष्णा, but at least looking for something higher. It has to be there because at 1 level, we can say that we everybody needs to be pushed a little bit. But for some people you push them and they come to कृष्णा, for some people you push them and they are away from कृष्णा.

So then what do we do? How much can we push someone? So for somebody is in stress, then at that time if we are there as friends, as counselors, not necessarily ventures, as as friendly concerned human beings and that can also help them. But in general, in today’s world especially if somebody is distress, they can go to psychologist. If they need money, they can go to a bank and take a loan.

If they have curiosity then they can just Google. And now these 3 factors alone, themselves may not bring people to कृष्ण. So it’s they have distress and they have some spiritual interest. That’s why they look for something higher. They have curiosity but they also have some spiritual inclination.

So we also try to create that spiritual inclination by distribute by distribute books, by doing हरिनाम, by जगन्नाथवत यात्रा and which give people spiritual impressions. But it is true that there has to be some inclination for them, in them for some higher for searching for something higher. It like say somebody is trying to drive a car and the car is not starting. So at that time, say in India it happens, let’s say, people come around and they all push the car. So, people from outside are pushing, the person from outside is steering and navivering and then the car starts off.

And then the person moves on the journey. But suppose the people from outside are pushing and the person from inside has gone to sleep. They are not trying at all. Or worse still, people from outside are pushing and the person from inside is pressing the break. Then what can we do?

There’s not much point in pushing. Still, if somebody is not at all interested in कृष्णा, that doesn’t mean we have to reject them. But we didn’t, so we don’t need to push them further. So when we interact with people, if they are not interested in कृष्णा, if you can just give them a positive impression. I’m not a nice person.

Then maybe in future, they don’t want to explore. So we can open the door for कृष्णा for people to come to her कृष्णा. If they don’t come then they can just be courteous and and and close the interaction on a positive note. What we, what we should not do and what we unfortunately often do is that if we open the door for कृष्णा and they do not come, then we band the door in their face. You are a माया, you are going to go to healthy, this that that and then that is very ability.

These people need to have some spiritual interest. Other it’s very very difficult. Then we can try to create a ज्ञान सुकृति by giving प्रसाद, by doing हरिनाम, by giving books. It’s a more gradual process. Ok?

So thank you very much..

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Hare Krishna. Happy to be here amongst all of you today. And I’ll speak today based on the Rama end. The valley is coming tomorrow, but it’s already there today depending on which part of the world we are in or which part of the world’s calendar we follow. So I’ll speak on the theme of relationships.

I have written a book on the Ramayana called wisdom from Ramayana on life and relationships, and I’ll talk about within relationship the theme of betrayal. When people betray us, how do we respond to that? And broadly, I’ll talk 3 case studies and we look at the dynamics within that. Three places where somebody felt betrayed. It is very revealing about human psychology that quite often when A feels betrayed by B.

A feels I am the right and B is wrong. It is quite often B also feel betrayed by So I was at a the mediation session. 2 devotees so 2 devotees are trying to mediate. So one devotee came and said, I know you are angry with me. And the other devotee said, no.

I’m not angry with you. Sometimes you say I am not angry also in a tone that is angry. I’m not angry with you. Anger is an expensive emotion. You are not worth it.

It’s one thing to be angry with someone. I find another to be almost trivialize and dehumanize somebody else. You are not worth it. So some situations it is almost impossible to resolve. But still we will try to see what causes things to go down.

So these 3 incidents I’ll talk about is Kaikeyi and Dasharat, then Wali and Sugri, and then Ravan and Kumbagat. Generally, we don’t feel betrayed by people who are far away from us. Because betrayal is a very intense emotion. And it’s only when we trust someone. When we when somebody comes close to us, we trust them.

Then they turn against us. They do something opposite of what we expected. That’s when we feel betrayed. So generally we see that our pain in a relationship is proportional to the emotion investment relationship. Say, if he comes close to someone and we expect we we we think we have done something good and we expect them them to pat us on the back and they can’t give us a slap.

Hey. What happened? Anytime a slap is the slap is shocking. But especially when we are expecting a pat and we get a slap, That is unbelievable. It’s so shocking that increases the pain.

So somehow or the other the world is structured in such a way that things often go wrong. When they go wrong at that time, so we all try to try to somehow firstly come to terms with what has happened. And then secondly, try to find some cause for what has happened. And often we’re trying to find a cause, we pin the blame on someone. It is said that success has many parents whereas failure is usually born an orphan.

Everybody wants to pass the blame to everyone else whenever there’s failure. So let’s look at the first incident. The first incident is in the Ramayana, Ram is to be enthroned as the king. Now Ram is among the 4 brothers, the eldest. He’s also the noblest.

And it’s expected that he will become the king. That’s a principle traditionally called as primogeniture. And so Dasharat accordingly appointed and decided that Ram will become the Greek. And somehow Kaikeyi because she had become the favorite queen of Basharath. She expected certain special entitlement, certain special privileges.

Quite often for us what happens we all have a certain entitlement mentality. So when we keep getting something, we start expecting that I deserve it. Whether we actually deserve it or not, we start expecting it and then rather to be grateful for what we have got, we start becoming resentful when we don’t get it. In today’s world, we have a lot more comfort than what we had maybe even a few decades ago or to speak of few centuries ago. But then if one thing doesn’t go properly, we get quite disturbed.

I saw a cartoon itself today my world has come crashing down. So what happened other people’s narcissist there’s no Wi Fi connection. Of course, somebody may have some important work to do, but still to say that world has come crashing down. It’s quite a exaggeration, but people don’t feel like that. They don’t feel so it’s a disaster.

So Kaikiri, and she was the youngest, she started expecting that she would get some special privilege. And that feeling was further exploited by mantra. And later on, Ram speaks something to Bharat to Lakshman, which is not spoken anywhere in the Ramayana, the Valmiki Ramayana, anywhere else. He speaks it only once and he alone speaks it. That is he says don’t be angry with Kaikeyi.

He’s pacifying. Lakshman is furious. He says how dare this atrocious thing happened to you? You have done no wrong and still you have been exiled. So horrible.

Exile is only is the worst of punishment. Just one level below execution. How dare this happen to you? And then at that time, Ram says, actually, it’s natural for to expect Bharat to be in the case. Now you are going to be a test.

She says, no. But this was the bride price promised to her in the time of her marriage. There are 2 concepts that the dowry and there’s bride price. Dowry is what is you usually at the name of the marriage is given by the girl side to the boy side. Bride price is what is given by the boy side to the girl side.

So bad price is common in in some pride in Africa and even the Mahabharata, there’s a mention to that mention of that when Vishnu goes to have goes to seek the hand of Madri, to Madras to Chennai. So now he goes there. At that time, her brother, her father is no longer there. Brother is more influential. So he says, in our in our tradition, it is the boy who use a bright prize.

He says, I know about this bismasies. And say I already arranged for lavish gifts to be brought. So there is a lot of diversity within the Indian epics. Not that some the whole idea that Indian India was India has this dowry system. I saw this commentary.

Now this has all come in the recent centuries because of the excess of materialism. But traditionally, there were the tradition the different places are different tradition and there was no imposition. There’s no demand. But, anyway, now this is the various Ramayan commentators are ambiguous. They some of them said that Ram is saying this just to pacify Lakshman.

There is no reference anywhere else. If that had been a promise then would surely have brought it up when she was making the demand. And she didn’t have to even ask for those 2 vows. I’m entitled directly. But anyway, the point here is made feel as if Dasharat is betraying her.

And Dasharat only acted as if you are very dear to me. But now in the real time to come to show, to show one’s affection, to show one’s real color, it said that you can talk big things, but put your mouth, what do you think? Put your mouth where your money is or put your money where your mouth is. So, you know, do the walk your talk. So as so he showed so much affection to me but add the time and the real thing is to be done, he’s enthralled son.

This is a betrayal. Oh, she doesn’t bring in the bride price so that is quite unlikely. But just that she felt it. It’s my I am the dearest. So my son should become the next.

At least, Manthara made her feel as if you are being betrayed. There’s a conspiracy of food and you have to do whatever it takes. And when she went and demanded from Dasharat that give me these 2 goals, and Dasharat was in a very happy mood. Like, one of the Ramayan commentators says that when you are happy, never make any promises to anyone. So he said that 2 things.

When you are angry, don’t don’t speak anything. Don’t speak in anger. You speak in anger, you will give the best speech that you will regret. And when you are happy, don’t promise him. So Rashid is very happy and he says whatever you want.

In fact, he says, thrice in the name of Ram. Whatever you ask, I will do it. And then when she says send Ram to the forest for 14 years and and through Bharat is the king, Ashut feels totally betrayed, And the betrayal is extremely painful. It is he I’m bound by my words that I had to do what you tell me to. But because you have betrayed me such a terrible way since I reject you.

I reject you as my wife. And it is Ram who remembers that and describe later that when, Ram defeats Raul at that time, Dasharat also appears along with the gods in the sky. And then Ram offers his respects to Dasharat and Ram asks, no, please just accept Khetri back. Please forgive her for what she did. Whatever she did was ordained by destiny.

And Shraddha’s also anger has gone down and he accepts it. So in this case, when both of them feel as if they have been betrayed. Feel that that which I was entitled to, that has been taken away from me. And, Dasharat, how could somebody within my own family demand something like this from me? So we could say in this situation that objectively speaking, you could say one side is right and one side is wrong.

Who is right, broadly speaking? Mushroom. Mushroom is right. And was wrong. Now still we will see that there is no there is no punishment for Kik.

Now if we consider, let’s go to the we’ll come back to come to the second incident, and then we’ll go to 3rd incident. Just the second incident I mentioned. Valley Valley and Sugri. So now in this case, Valley and Sugri were the best of they’re not just brothers, but they’re also the best of friends. They were together always.

And Sugri was the most trusted assistant of all. But somehow or the other the nature of the world is that every relationship will be tested. Even the closest of relationships either the other person will do something or some situation will come up that will pursue things in a particular way. And in this case, I won’t go into the whole story. But, basically, Mayavi was a demon who tried to attack Ishkinder, and Vali and Sugri both went in chase of him.

And mayavi went into a into a cave and then Wale went inside the cave. And Sukhiri waited for a long time, but he couldn’t find he he couldn’t hear no sound of Wale at all. And finally, he heard the scream of the demon. And he heard that no sound of Walli scream of the demon. Walli has been killed.

And he started thinking that if Walli has been killed and Walli is much more powerful than me. So if that demon comes out, how will I be able to stop him? He will consider the defenseless and he may destroy the whole kingdom. This is what do I do. Then he decided he got a huge boulder and covered the mouth of the queue with it.

And then he went back with a heavy heart. There was an state wide period of mourning because the emperor king had been killed. And then the minister said that we need a king. So Angad is too young. You become the king.

And when he became the king at that time, what happened? He was he was ruling and then one day, Wally came back and Wally’s eyes were bloodshot. While he had searched for a long time in the cave, it was not it was just a cave, it was like a catacomb complex maze of passage base. And he had to search for a long time he had got tired by that. He wanted to conserve his energy.

And so he just did short work of the demon, but he did not, he did not roar in victory like he would normally do. And when he came out, saw the door was blocked. He looked and looked and he said, I took a shot and couldn’t move. I realized that this could not have come like this on its own. On its own, it couldn’t have come.

And at that time, I had to push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and push and already exhausted. It took him a long time to push and get out. And he’s thinking and come out. Finally, when he came out, he thought, I’m so sorry. There is a suspicion.

Did so could you do this? So we can’t do this. But this couldn’t I just it comes so precise as a big boulder. It’s here precisely put on the mouth. It can’t have happened by chance.

So then he came back and then saw also breathing the throne. Just exploded. Sugri was delighted to see Ali back. Supreme was also alert. He saw Ali’s anger while he’s charging toward.

So he he he had no intention of fighting. He just folded his hands and he he wanted to explain and welcome. So Bali was furious and he was also powerful. A pounding Sugri Sugri was trying to trying to explain trying to calm his brother down. Finally, Sugri decided that rather than while he managed to let me go now.

I’ll come back later. Unfortunately, when Sribri fled, while he started thinking, why did he flee? If he were not guilty, why would he flee? He can he can confirm for it. And in this way, there’s a permanent rupture between that.

Now, while he felt betrayed, I had asked you to assist me to guard the entrance and he tried to block me and take all my income. And so who you felt betrayed? That he just attacked me with the without even seeking to hear for me, without even trying to understand my side of the story? Okay. It’s something we are in a close relationship.

If we are suspected also that pains a lot. But it’s one thing to be suspected. It’s another thing to be convicted. They feel I had been convicted without being heard. How can this be?

It became so painful. As if that was not bad enough. Volley somehow even the best of people sometimes get affected by some dark tendencies with them. So then he decided that if I cannot get Sugriya, I’ll get back at Sugriya. And then he appropriated Sugriya’s wife for himself, and that was unbearable for Sugriya.

And then when they came to know about it when Ram came to know about it Ram was furious and eventually the situation becomes so far. Now if it’s one thing to just have a conflict between 2 people misunderstanding But by that time, it had become too far, gone too far. And Ram came in between and Ram shot Wally. And now, of course, we can go into the ethics of what Ram did, but suffice it to say that Vali Raman Raman describes that Sugary Vali himself, how dare you do like this? It’s unfair.

Then Ram gives a long explanation. And Ram says that you are basically a monkey. Yes. And animals can be killed in any way. He knows more than that he said you are aggressor, you are a sinful aggressor.

A sinful aggressor can be killed in any way and then he says if you still feel the long answer to long after that is if you still feel that what I have done is wrong. He he said, I I’m ready to give you back your life. And while he of now that he’s fallen to the ground, his pride has been also pounded. He hears Ram’s words and all that painful he realizes that they are true. He is currently wrong, Sugri.

And there’s a very moving reconciliation between Vali and Sugri at that time. Ram’s arrows are so powerful that Ram can very easily one arrow of Ram could kill anyone and although Vali’s body has been pierced with Ram’s arrow, Vali does not die immediately because Wally has a jewel necklace given by his father in the room. And as long as that necklace is on his body, he will not die. Now naturally a father would want to give something so precious and so powerful to his own son But Wally gives him to supreme. He said, I offended you badly.

And please accept this. And as soon as the joint necklace leaves Wally’s body, while life leaves also on his body. But before that, he tells the tells, please don’t, be angry with Tara or Angadha. Tara often counsel me to reconcile with you. Angad is innocent.

And he tells Angad also, don’t hold anything against. I have been killed because of my own estates. Angad is not responsible. So he make sure that there is no further tension. Now, in this case, there is betrayal and there is reconciliation.

I talked about there is no direct reconciliation between Kaikeyi and Dashwat but Ram does that At least, any Ram tells also. But Dashwat has forgiven. And in this case, Ram again comes in between, and he does a reconciliation. Now if you consider the 3rd case. What are the 3rd case?

And in this case, quite often people say, Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I should have said.

I think Kumar also applies in some ways. So revision. So now many people feel that revision was he betrayed his betrayed his brother. Well, it’s yes and no. It depends on there are broadly this is a big subject, I mentioned briefly.

There are 2 conceptions of ethics you could say. There is categorical ethics and there is contextual ethics. Categorical ethics means this is right and this is wrong. And these 2 are these are impervious categories. Anything in this category is always right.

Anything in this category is always wrong. Contextual ethics is where, yes, there are categories, but beyond that we have to consider context. And what context means basically when we are we consider contextual ethics, we look at 3 things. Intent, content, and consequence. Why somebody doing something?

What are they doing? And what is the result of what they’re doing? So, yes, one should be faithful to one’s family. One should be faithful to one’s brother. So just said Bharat was faithful to Ram.

Lakshman was faithful to Ram. So similarly, that that ethic is when he was talking about in the Ramayana but in the Bhishan is glorified. Although he turned against Ravana. Why? Because Bhishan considered that I am not just a member I’m not just the brother of Rao.

Lord. I am a member of the royal dynasty. And our entire royal dynasty has a duty to protect the Rakshasa dynasty, the Rakshasas. If the current king of the Rakshasas for his own selfish lusty desires is pro cause broken a wall that is going to destroy the whole Rakshasas dynasty. Then greater than my duty to my brother is my duty to artisans.

And he has 3 options at that time. Either he can do a insurrection coup, a rebellion against Rawan, take over the kingdom and oppose the and call off the war so that there’s no devastation of Lanka. Other option is he can just renounce the world. Just this this this politics is a messy business. I just announce the world and take to Anaprastha and go with Malayas.

And third is he can go over to Ram’s side. You can hear Ram, your enmity is with Ravana. Your enmity is not with the Rakshasa dynasty. And, yes, there are some Rakshasa supporting him, but not everyone supports. And in that way, he can prevent the whole he can prevent the wholesale enmity between the Rakshasa and the Manavas headed by Ram.

And he feels the first he can’t do because Ram is too powerful, people are too fearful of him. 2nd, he feels a little responsibility. The third option for him is go over to Ram’s side, and that’s what he does. So rather than considering that Kumbhakaran betrayed Ravan, we can say Ravan betrayed his own dynasty. Just for his own desires, he was ready to call destruction the whole dynasty.

So it is we have to see the bigger context. Yes, in the immediate context, yes. And when we go to the opposite side of Raul, but Raul had gone to the opposite side of what a Kaptri has been doing. So not only was he not only had he abductors, which is a moral, but for that, for maintaining, holding on to her, he was casting his whole kingdom into danger. So in this case, tried desperately to stop to stop.

Raul, he persuaded him a back dream. He put his crown on his feet. He said, if you feel I have a multitude of motives, no, I will resign right now, but please don’t reject my words. And Raul just nonchalantly disrespectfully just kicks off where he kicks on his crown. It is no need to and then there’s no no option left for Kumbhakaran for Rav the vision at that time.

Now Kumbhakaran had once said is considered to be faithful. But Kumbhakaran’s problem is that he it is because of him and he’s assuring him that Ravan continues with the war. So somebody’s going on the wrong track and we support them. So more then that is that is fear actually not only us doing wrong, we are encouraging others to do wrong. So so based on all these three examples, so now in this case, there is no reconciliation between the vision and Rahul.

There’s a fight. At the end of which vision specifically guides around how to bring down the foremost warriors in Ravana’s army, and eventually, Ram is killed. But there also, Ram is instrumental. Ram says that in the last when in the last rights of everyone who’s been killed at Rakshasaheb has been performed, Vibhishan says that Raul was so cool. He said, I don’t I don’t feel like doing his last rights.

And Ram becomes very grieve and Ram says the soul is always pure. And even if in a particular body, soul has done something wrong through death, the that particular actions, reactions have been given now. And now do your duty to help Ravana’s soul go to an auspicious destination. And then Rauner Vadishant does exactly that as per Ram’s right. So now we see that here in the third case there was no reconciliation We could say that in the case of and Ashrath, there was reconciliation but not directly.

But was never held responsible. Was not punished directly. Vibishan sorry. Vali and Sugri, there was reconciliation before that, but Vali had to die. And with Ravan and Kumbakar Ravan and Vibishan, there was with sorry, Vibhishan and Ravan, there was no reconciliation, but at least Ram mentioned that there is no animosity toward the soul.

So if you look at these three broad things, I like to differentiate between 2 main things that there is weakness and there is wickedness. Weakness is when we all have certain impurities with us. Maybe lust, maybe anger, maybe greed and because of these we sometimes do things that we are not that we ourselves know we should not. So we all have some inner guards within us which protect us from impurities. 1 is our conscience and the other is our intelligence.

Our intelligence rationally tells us don’t do this. Don’t do this. Don’t do this. And our conscience may our intelligence our conscience makes us feel bad. Conscious emotionally tells us.

We feel bad on doing bad. So both of these are our inner guards and for people who have weakness, what happens? Sometimes the impurity overpowers the intelligence of the conscience And then when that happens, we sometimes do something wrong. But after doing that wrong thing, we after something, we what did I do? Why did I do that?

We regret it, And we want to fix things as much as possible. So this is a weakness, and we all have weaknesses. Now opposed to weakness, quite different from weakness is wickedness. Wickedness is where a person’s conscience has almost died. So they are so repeatedly kept doing wrong that the conscience doesn’t even feel that I’m doing something bad.

So to actually to feel to not feel bad on doing bad is bestially bad. Like, person has become a bit almost like a beast at that time. And not only their conscious number endowment, but their intelligence is perverted. And intelligence perverted means that they use their intelligence to do bad things in such a way that they did not get caught by it. And they will do even bad things in such a way that they will hurt the other person the most.

So you could say weakness is hot headed. Wickedness is cold blooded. Hot headed means in the heat of the moment we speak something or we do something. So temptation comes, provocation comes and we do something that’s weakness. But wickedness is very, very systematic planning is there.

So if you’re in a crowded road, in a crowded room and we are rushing somewhere and then we accidentally put our foot on step on somebody’s foot. And then as soon as we realize it, oh, I’m sorry. I regret it. But suppose somebody steps on somebody’s foot and they notice And then they deliberately so now that is not an accident. That is intentionally done to cause pain to someone else.

That is wickedness. Now, weakness can and should be forgiven. But wickedness we can to give forgiveness to wickedness is often often foolishness. Because because the wicked person does not feel I am doing anything wrong they will keep doing it again and again and again. So now when people betray us or it so now there are broadly three possibility many broadly three possibilities.

When we feel betrayed, although the the other person is actually not doing anything to betray us. That is case you can see. We just feel betrayed because things have happened in a particular way and they we it’s our subject to feeling other than objective reality. The second possibility is that we feel betrayed and other person has done something also wrong, previously wrong. But it was not intentional.

It is circumstantial. It was accident. And the third is, if the head the other person has done wrong and has knowingly intentionally done wrong. So whenever some basically, betrayal we could mean that it’s it’s not only the other person does not do what they are expected to do, that may disappoint us. But they do the exact opposite of what we expected them to do.

So that is betrayal. Say, a soldier is meant to defend the country. But instead the soldier gives all the secrets of the country the opposite. So there is there is a difference between a betrayer and a deserter. A deserter is a soldier who will observe it from Portugal.

But betrayer is one who goes to join the opposite side. So when people don’t do what we expect them to that is disappointing but people do the opposite and not the disappointing that is that we feel is a betrayal, it’s treachery. So when this has happened in general, it is best to give others the benefit of doubt. Sometimes we just we may presume that this person is wicked. And anger blinds us to context.

Anger makes us feel like how could this person think like this? How could this person look like this? How dare she think? And in this case, if you consider, between Vali and Sugri, Vali thought that Sugri had been wicked. And what happened because of that?

Valley thought Sugri was wicked and because of that Valley himself became wicked. So it is actually very difficult, to rather it’s very easy if we see wickedness in other words that becomes our justification for wickedness in ourselves. If you did like this I will definitely do it, why should I not, why should I hold myself back. So what happens is in this case the perception itself was so yes, we can say that Wali did some, Subhir did something wrong. But Subhir did the best that he could in that situation.

Subhir had no specific desire to overthrow Wali and take the kingdom. So it was a mistake, but it was not easy. It was not intentional. It was a circumstance. In the case of Vishnu and Ravan, it is Ravan had done this many times in the past.

He had abducted many, many, maidens and others, and he had got them into his own palace. And for him, it is a habit. In this particular case, he challenged someone who is too powerful. He provoked someone who is too powerful. So maybe he should warn them, but he didn’t listen.

So when when we when these three broad possibilities are there, when we feel betrayed by someone. So first is, in general, give people the benefit of doubt. Now, so we see that it’s often weakness that now when you see that, when did she come to our senses? Heard of something horrible? When do you think she came to our senses?

Yeah. Yeah. Something Bharat came and Bharat castigated her. He said, you are not alone. You’re not her mother.

You are the goddess of destruction. He was the destruction incarnated in our dynasty to destroy our whole dynasty. And he spoke like this. She was she thought I’m doing all this for Bharat. And and that was what Joy did.

So when somebody has some weakness and they are under the spell of that weakness, now we could say what she did was wrong, and so when I say that was weaker for her to do it. But while she was under that spell, she did not listen to anyone. So mantra the minister tried to tell. Vashishta tried to explain. Dashan himself tried to explain, but nothing affected it.

Right? And so at that time, whoever tried to explain something to her, that only made her feel that she started thinking I’m a victim. I alone am trying to defend the rights of my son Bharat, and the whole world is in this plot to take away the kingdom from him. So she just couldn’t listen. So when somebody is under the grip of that weakness, it can be sometimes so strong that they just don’t listen to anyone.

Now why did she listen to Bharat? Because she trusted Bharat. And she she thought she was doing all this for Bharat. And she thought she she thought she loved Bharat and she thought Bharat loved it. So, basically, for all of us, we are here, our mind is here, and the world is here.

And we look at the world through the mind. We look at the world through the mind. And people’s actions also we interpret based on our mind. If somebody starts speaking very sweetly with us, immediately our minds are saying, what does this person want from me? Why are they speaking so sweetly with me?

So now we need to some extent see our mind in this lead us immensely. And it is society which to some extent society and the people around us, they keep us to some extent safe. We are immensely social creatures. Even some people say I just want to be alone. But so imagine right now I’m speaking something.

If I speak some sentence and every one of you starts glaring at me. Not just staring, but glaring at me. Immediately I start the I I speak something wrong. What happened? So now, in general so if you are driving on the road and we take a wrong turn, and immediately, oh, maybe I took a wrong turn.

So to some extent, our mind can provide us many, many options and mind can mislead us. But society keeps us sane. Not always. I mean, society can also make us insane. But in general, if we are living in a reasonably orderly society, the mind can come up with many disorderly ideas, disorderly desires.

But then the society around us keeps us keeps us orderly. And that’s why the kind of social circle we have around us is important. And we need at least some people in our lives, at least one person, whom we trust more than our mind. Whom we trust more than our mind. That means everybody I look like this.

You are here. I am here. You are here. I am here. The mind is here.

But for some people, it’s like this. Okay? I’m here. My mind is here. You are here.

So to be open minded means actually this. Right? And imagine if this cloth is here. If it is here, then I can see this cloth, and I can look at you also. The closer I bring to this cloth to myself, this tissue paper to myself, what happens?

I can’t see anything except the tissue paper. So if it’s right over my eyes, I can’t see anything except the tissue Instead of this tissue paper, there is a colored glass over here. Then if this glass has a distance, I can see maybe it’s a red colored glass. I can see everything red through this, and I can see everything is not red also. So wherein we are there are different kinds of attachments.

In the mode of ignorance, people are attached to escapism. In the mode of passion, we are attached to possessions. In the mode of goodness, we are attached to opinions. I am right and you are wrong. So when we are really attached to our opinions, we just can’t see what the other person see because it’s too close to us.

So, basically, we we we all have different ideas that you hold at different distances. Some we are very this is how it is. And even say, for example, when you practice Bhakti, We all have certain conceptions of how a devotee should be. And based on those conceptions, we think a devotee means you should not eat any food outside. A devotee means you wake up in the morning.

A devotee means you come to program every Sunday. A devotee means you should they should do this. A devotee means you should do this. Yes. All these are aspects of being a devotee.

But what happens to each so to say individually, so to speak. Now if we have only one particular prominent conception of a devotee and that person doesn’t start doing that, then what happens? Useless. Useless. What do you know?

So I’ve got a devotee who told me about another devotee. He says, when I go in his presence in that so this devotee look at that. And I go in that devotee’s presence, I feel I have to explain I have to justify my existence as a devotee to this person. So we all have certain opinions and strong opinions about certain things. And then we see through the filter of that.

And that’s just unavoidable. We are individuals and we will have our opinions. But if we have at least some people whom we are ready to hear, then okay, this is my understanding and this is this person’s understanding. Let me examine it. Let me examine it.

And then if you examine it, then we are no longer caught in the grip of that impurity. We have come out of that weakness. But for Kaike, she came out soon, and Kaike didn’t have a evil heart. And although this she did something wrong, I mean, terribly wrong, but she was not considered responsible. In general, we see that Ram also tell that it is a part of the plan of destiny that she was that he was exile and he came to the forest.

But something similar is not said for Wani. But if destiny, the one of which he sugree you he he did he sent sugary away. Because, you know, as I said, he did something clean to stay wrong. It is one thing to one thing to drive sugary away, but it’s quite another thing to it is almost like incest for a older brother to be with the wife of the younger brother, and that was extremely serious. And in this case, he because he was also in general, if somebody is very powerful, they also get their feeling, my opinions are right.

And then what happens after that? He just don’t listen to anyone else. So only when his power was diminished, when he was lying powerless on the ground near death at the time when he started started listening to an alternative opinion. But Ravan never listened to no matter what happened. So we could say that Valley also had weakness.

But in the pursuit of that weakness, if you see if we consider a slip mountain with a slope, a slippery slope. At the top of the mountain is weakness. At the bottom of the mountain is wickedness. So once if a person is using to weakness once, twice, thrice, 4 times, 5 times, and soon they may go down to a wickedness. You say somebody becomes a drug addict or somebody starts taking drugs.

Nowadays in American colleges, there’s a big, big fear. Big the drug epidemic is also there almost. It’s there in India also, Punjab, and few other places. But say, student life is stressful. I mean, stressful student life is, student feels that I need somebody.

I need somebody. And then somebody gives them a drug. They take it. That’s weakness. But they take it once and they take it again and again and again and again.

Then what will happen? They will start relying, they’ll start stealing, they’ll start robbing to somehow another get drugs, and then they will be generated towards wickedness. So for all of us in our close relationships, we all have weaknesses. And when somebody succumbs to a weakness, how we best see it is that say, I am here. You are here, and your weakness is made to do something because of which I feel betrayed.

So it’s natural to feel betrayed, but rather than assuming that it is wickedness on their part, we see it as weak as weakness. And the more we judge them and condemn them, And what happens? Then their energy goes into justifying what they have done rather than rectifying what they have done. And when that happens, they start getting more and more stuck with it. So we see there’s weakness, but there is a phase which came and went.

And we try to become a a partner in their fight against their weakness. And then that weakness can be overcome. But if we don’t do that, then we we succumb we presume that there’s wickedness. How could you have done this? Of course, we can ask how could you have done this but the tone matters a lot.

If we are blaming them for that we are just seeking an explanation. What made you do this? What were you thinking while doing this? Can we ask in in various ways? So so, generally, when there is whenever we feel betrayed, it is best to begin with the first.

Maybe with my perception only. I’m not being betrayed. If Kaike is just making a straight demand to Dasharat, had gone and asked Dasharat, What’s going on? Now why is, Ram’s coronation being done so quickly? Why is Bharat not present over here?

What is the hurry? And Ram could’ve Dashup could’ve explained and things could’ve been. If Valir asked, what’s going on? What could you if you just ask them, then things could have been clarified. But it’s it’s natural that when somebody does something which is which seems to us objectionable, then we feel betrayed.

But don’t don’t presume. Don’t presume. Just try to ask. And especially this is so true in the devotee community. Because sometimes, as I said, each of us has certain conceptions of what is Bhakti.

And if somebody starts doing something which is different, it is deviation. That is deviation. That is deviation. And you start passing on labels so easy. And then it just spoils so much.

It can spoil so much relationships. Our spirituality is meant to make us more understanding. But sometimes our spirituality makes us more judgmental more judgmental and then there’s a big big big fractures happen. So presume that although we feel we have right to our feelings but that doesn’t necessarily mean that just because we have a right to our feelings doesn’t mean that what we are feeling is right. Yeah.

I is the difference between the 2. Yes. I am feeling furious. I am feeling betrayed. I can understand it.

If you are perceiving it this way, you’ll feel it. But that doesn’t mean what we are feeling is right. What what what we are thinking is the way things have happened. So ask. If we just ask, a lot of things can be clarified.

Sometimes we just avoid asking and we presume this is how it is. And if it’s a first case, there is no no betrayal at all. 2nd case, there has been a betrayal, but it is because of weakness. Then in that case, we try to see first, of course, we will feel hurt. But after we get over that wound, then we try to see how we can help that person rectify, come over that weakness.

And sometimes some time has to go. It’s like, while Kaike was in that phase, nobody could make sense to her. Nothing could make sense to her. Sometimes just sometimes has to go before when somebody’s convinced about something. See, one of the understanding of the Puranas is that it’s not entirely true, but it is true to some extent that we are play things in the hands of the gods.

That’s not in time because we do have free will. But the point is based on our karma, sometimes we are overcome by forces that we ourselves don’t understand by our past karma sometimes. It’s like by past karma, sometimes a bad face may come upon us. Now we will. A lot of bad things happen to us.

So we understand there is external reaction. But sometimes we have karma, suddenly lust increases or anger increases or greed increases. It’s also a phase of karma. So if we are situated in a stable social structure with good relationships, then those relationships can help us to to not get too swept away by that phase of karma. So sometimes we if somebody’s going through that phase, just keep a distance.

Try to clarify it, but if you can’t get a clarification, just keep a distance. But don’t fix permanent labels on people. Somebody may betray us, but that doesn’t make them a lifelong betrayal. Everybody changes. And somebody has been has has lived devotionally, lived ethically for a long time in their life and then suddenly they do something terrible rather than presuming, rather than reducing their whole life to that particular misbehavior of theirs.

You see all the other thing that they’re doing. Of course, this hurts us. It heavily hurts us. But don’t reduce the person with that one action of theirs. Some now how exactly to deal with it?

That’ll vary from situation to situation. It’s not easy. Sometimes people sometimes work through somebody else. Obviously, Ram in a sense mediated. The mediation is not exactly a mediation, but Ram brought about a reconciliation.

So they got sometimes some through some years the reconciliations come up. And there are some cases when, like, in the Raman’s case, revision had to just go the full distance. Raman just had to be punished. So this is the last part which I’ll conclude That broadly speaking, whenever somebody does something wrong to us, there is some now let’s assume that they have actually done something wrong. And this assumption has to be it has to be grounded in reality.

Suppose somebody comes to us and they write a letter, you know, I have forgiven you. Oh, thank you very much. What did I do to need forgiveness? So we will presume our heart will be burning because of anything. We had an act of great spiritual strength to forgive, and the person doesn’t even know that there is something wrong to us.

So it is just like we are all different and sometimes some things hurt us very much, but other things are taking other people are taking martial art. But if somebody is forgive so if somebody what somebody has is weakness, well, then it is best to tolerate and forgive. If somebody has wickedness, then then we have to keep a distance. Sometimes we may have to take action. Somebody’s taking action or something like that.

So there’s a difference between forgiving and trusting. Forgiving is for the past, trusting is for the future. So if somebody has done something wrong, don’t fix a permanent label on them and say, this is how you are. In the past, it’s over. Forgiveness can be given, but trust needs to be honored.

Somebody has done something wrong, we can’t just presume or spite watch the past. Now say if we give some money to someone and then they lose it all, and next time they come and ask money again, again, we give it. Well, that would be foolishness. They they have shown that they have they they have learned all the maturity to handle money carefully, then you can give them if you need. So trust has to be earned.

So broadly, there are 3 possibilities when somebody does something wrong, we forgive but don’t trust. It’s the middle way. It’s the normal default. And then we forgive but don’t trust. And if they change, they improve, then we forgive and forget.

It’s over. No need to hold it against them for the rest of their lives. But sometimes, they may continue doing the wrong things, and they don’t feel as if they they we can see that they just what they’re doing is wickedness. Then we’ll have to go to 3rd level. 3rd level is what?

Forgive internally in terms of emotions. Ram told, we should not hold any grudge against, against Ramon. But forgive and then take take corrective action. And the corrective action may be taken because we want to protect ourselves from day hurting us again or from day hurting others. It could be various situations but those are generally extreme situations.

Usually, in the first and second options itself, if we are patient, and then we can’t resolve things. And in general, whenever we have this shock in our vertical horizontal relationship with others when we feel betrayed that is the time when we need the shelter of our vertical relationship. That it is if one particular horizontal relationship is our whole defining relationship. And within that, we experience betrayal, then we will be not only devastated, but we’ll be destroyed. But if we have developed our vertical relationship with Krishna, then, yes, this will cause us pain, but that particular relationship will be with us.

Krishna will be our strength, will be our shelter. And Bhakti is not just about chanting or coming to the chotsang or reading some Shastra or doing some. Bhakti is essentially about making our relationship with Krishna our foremost relationship. When we do that, when we when our defining identity becomes that I am first and foremost, I’m a solo servant of Krishna. I’m part of Krishna.

And as a part of Krishna, I’m the husband of someone, the wife of someone, and the father of someone, and the mother of someone, and the brother or sister of someone, and the son or daughter of someone, and the godbrother or the god sister of someone. All these things. When this when when we are sheltered in our primary identity, then all whatever betrayals come, they will not they will not shake us so much. Maybe shaken, but it only so much. And as a Bhakti, we can do all this analysis and it’s important definitely for to be within the practical level.

But to even to be able to do all this analysis and apply we need inner strength. And inner strength basically means inner strength is not like a physical strength you can measure. Inner strength means the strength of our relationship with Krishna. Inner strength is the how much we identify our customers with Krishna. How much we we consider that as our defining identity then whatever challenges life may send our way, we will be able to manage with them.

So I’m gonna raise what I spoke today. I spoke on the topic of when people betray us. So I talked about 3 broad cases when people betray us. 1, I stood in the Ramayana. I talked about 3 cases.

And. Yeah. So now Kaike because she was the favorite queen of Prashant, she somehow under mantra’s influence expected that my son will get some special privilege. I mean, then she didn’t get she felt betrayed. And Prashant who Prashant was betrayed because how can his own wife ask that his other son is that his sons be and he vanished the forest for no fault.

Now in this case, Ram acted as a mediation and eventually mediator and eventually sought a request to Dashrath to forgive Sita, for you, forgive. Then I discussed with Wale and Sugri that Wale was Sugri was caught in a situation where he he was he did what he thought was the best, and Wale, misunderstood. We can say even Subhiri misunderstood the sit misread the situation, but Subhiri had no options at that time. He did the best that he could. Wally also missed the situation.

He could have clarified he didn’t. And then Ram again intervened before the death, there was reconciliation. Before the death of Wally, there was reconciliation. In the case of and, Raul, Raul was a habitual wrongdoer, and betrayed his brother, but he remained faithful to his dynasty and to his kingdom. So there is contact categorical ethics will say that we we should be treated by the way.

Contextual ethics will help to understand that. Actually, what is the purpose of faithfulness? The context, he ensured he prevented the wholesale destruction of the whole dynasty. And then I talked about these two concepts of weakness and wickedness. Weakness is where somebody does something wrong because the the force of the impurity overpowers their conscience and their influence temporarily.

How long the temporary will be? Vary from place to person to person. Wickedness, whereas their conscience has been completely silenced and the intelligence has become converted. So weakness deserves forgiveness, wickedness deserves punishment. So when we deal with others, it there are 3 dot when we feel we are betrayed by others.

The 3 possibility. 1 is it just our feeling. And then it’s best to ask and clarify in non judgmental ways. Our emotions and our perceptions rather our opinions are emotional perceptions they are like a lens the closer we bring to it the less we can see anything apart from what that is being shown. So our association, our social circle often is the check which ensures that our mind doesn’t draw us in drive us insane.

And we need someone whom we trust as much if not more than our mind. Our mind gives a particular version that person you there’s another version and we’re ready to listen to it. So if we ask quite often, we may find that we we will not be betrayed. We just thought like that. And if they’ve been if we even if we have been betrayed and that will rather than as rather than fixing a permanent label on that person that you are a target person, we see that it’s a phase and then we we outweigh the phase.

And then we rather than, blaming them, we try to see how we can help them overcome that phase. And third is, of course, if somebody is wicked, they’re not having any indication of reforming at all. And then we will still forgive internally, but externally we seek some corrective action. So broadly speaking, when you feel betrayed, we can forgive but withhold trust. Trust needs to be owned back if they have done something wrong.

And if they rectify, then forgive and forget. If they don’t rectify, then forgive and seek corrective action. And when this kind of trauma happens in our life where somebody betrays us, then at that time, our every relationship will be tested in some way or the other like this. But if we have got our shelter in our vertical relationship with Krishna, then we would be so so shaken, so traumatized. And Bhakti is not just about, doing certain rituals, but it’s about making making our relationship with Krishna our central relationship.

That is the essence of inner strength, and that inner strength can help us to survive and perceive here through outer storms when people behave in shocking ways. Thank you very much. So you mentioned several people who were betrayed. Some people you indirectly mentioned, but you didn’t, go into their case. These were the women who had been abducted by Robin previous to SITA.

So Robin was a Kshatriya, and he had power and Kshatriya had power in order to protect karma. So but he and he was the the ruler of the kingdom, but he therefore betrayed the his Kshatriya and Harma when he adopted all those women. And they were not in a position to keep a distance from him. Yeah. Nor, did they have nor was there someone else to protect them or if they there was such a person they were not powerful enough to defeat Robin.

Basically, Robin was the highest authority in the place where they were. They they were kidnapped and they were being held by him. So what what was their duty in in the face of such a betrayal? Yeah. You see that the other women were abducted by Rawan.

They didn’t they didn’t have any options. They didn’t have a protector of into Rawan. So what do you do? So broadly, in the world, when something bad happens, when bad things happen, we all become constricted in our options. It’s that okay.

Let me put it this way. This was going to be a topic of my future class tomorrow morning or evening class, but I’ll just mention it now. That when bad things happen, we basically when things happen that we three broad factors. There is God’s will, there is free will, and there is evil. So God’s will is supreme.

But is it that when Raman Abhutrasitaya was that Ram’s will? Well, you could say will lose sense of Ram’s nothing would happen without the sanction. But then God’s will is there and then there is free will. The people so free will means that everyone of us has been given neatly free. And based on our past karma, we are given a particular circle, a particular fear or sphere of influence.

The way we have 13 chapter call that So while we, by our past karma, have a particular. We can do whatever we want in that, and god doesn’t intervene. That’s why God is a but we are also Ishwar. So for example, if I get angry I might just yell at someone or somebody with a gun gets angry they might kill someone. If the president of America gets angry and just press some nuclear button then whole country might be destroyed.

So what will happen over here? The anger emotion is safe but different people have different and when a person by a particular by their karma has got a particular domain of influence then what they do within that domain is up to them. They may misuse it and evil here means that somebody can rapidly keeps evil the same as wickedness. Somebody keeps happily doing wrong and they just do it afterward. So what happens to those from this life’s perspective, we see that they are victims.

And if we can do something to rectify it, we can. But if we can’t, then we have to make we have to do the best with the situation that we are in. That means, say, for example, Hitler. He did a holocaust, and there’s so many Jews who were killed other than the concentration camps. Now some survived.

Some had written inspiring stories of how they survived and they we all within sometimes, we have very very little influence. When somebody some sometimes that other person’s becomes so big, our becomes almost negligible. So for Sita also like that for at least at 1 year she was helpless. So what does she do? She internally was remembering the Lord.

She was internally serving the Lord. Sometimes our outer Sita might just completely be a no sphere of influence left because somebody else is overpowering at that time. Then we had there are certain things you are just unavoidable in life. We just accept them and do the best within whatever we have over So there are many things in this life from this life’s perspective which are grievously wrong. Now we could expand the perspective to a previous life and talk about previous life’s karma.

But in general, when something is happening like this, from this life’s perspective, somebody is a victim, then we have to understand that they are we we have to also empathize with their victims. And everybody becomes a victim sometime or the other due to the course of life. So it’s just life is tough, and one reason why it’s tough is sometimes we are we are hurt, we are afflicted because of no apparent fault of ours. So we just have to make the best that we can. Sometimes externally, we can’t do anything.

We just have to internally try to grow if all that is there available for us. Okay. Yes. In a spiritual situation, you mentioned that one should not be immediately judgmental, but you also mentioned about, weakness and wickedness. Now, if I may ask you, what could be the, factors, that could make the situation wicked?

Situation or the person? Person. Okay. What could be the situation that could make a person wicked? In a spiritual situation.

In a spiritual situation. Okay. 2, 3 things, what I can what my observation or understanding whatever I’ve seen, that we all go through phases of karma. Sometimes desire overpowers us, And especially what happens in spiritual spiritual circle, there is often a voluntary offering of power to a personal authority. Like a disciple use the trust and lot of power to the spiritual master.

Devotees may give to their leaders who are the guys are there. And that if some if somebody who’s in a position of power, they go through a phase where they’re attacked by lust or anger or greed or whatever. These are terrible things. So to the extent we can have some checks and balances, that means one person has power, but no absolute power. It’s not that it’s not that we don’t consider the person trustworthy, but rather we understand that that everybody needs to be cautious.

The first kind of issue with Bhagavatam, the very revealing statement of Prabhupada for Shivadeva Swami. He says the liberated soul is always alert to avoid getting trapped by the illusory energy. When I read this, it’s starting. This one is already liberated. Why do they need to be alert?

They’re already liberated. But the idea is their liberation makes them aware of how they do the forces of illusion. And that’s why they stay alert. So liberation is not that you don’t you don’t see the force of illusion also. Rather, we are alert.

So in general, there has to be we have the system of Guru Sahastra. So we also need to have at a at a institutional or at a, at a social level, some checks and balances so that nobody has absolute power. That’s one thing. Because it just it just we don’t know what phases the mind the mind will go through and what will happen. That’s one thing.

Second thing is that it’s very easy especially in spiritual circles to become convinced that I am doing the work of God. That and it’s when somebody gets convinced that what I am doing is this is the will of God. This is the right thing to do. Then people can put all common civility, common morality, everything aside. But, you know, they just I’m justified to do this because I’m doing this.

This is some people claim it now. God told me in my heart of this. Okay. Okay. It may be, but it’s also that and it happened to Prabhupad.

And the one young life one life member, he came to Prabhupad and he said, momiji, Krishna came in my dream yesterday night. It’s alright. Serve him today. Serve him today. Okay.

So what after that? Even if Krishna comes in our dream, our eternal relationship with him is of service. So Krishna can come in some we’re not denying we cannot say that Krishna can’t come to have some paranormal needs. But that was paranormal means of Krishna’s, coming in our life don’t mean that we just abandon the normal means of serving. So, yes, so it’s sometimes it just happens that people this is right and whoever doesn’t accept this is wrong.

Even that happens, it’s it’s terrible. So we have to avoid that. It’s it’s a very it’s a very easy to acquire temptation. Easy to succumb to temptation once we start becoming a little more senior and become little more learned. Think I know.

There’s once a Catholic nun. She was she used to take care of more from girls. And an orphan girl would come just come to the TV. She asked, what are you going to do when you grow up? What are you planning to do?

She said the girl said, I want to become a prostitute. I mean, what? Holy Jesus. Girl, what did you say? I want to become a prostitute.

Oh, thank god. I thought you wanted to become a protester. So sometimes some we may consider doing somebody does something different from some sectarian devo do we divisions so bad that even sometimes we’re ethically objectionable. We think that this this is worse than that. So a sense of self righteousness can very easily warm our moral sense.

So we have to be cautious about that. Quite often, this is this is the reason why when devotees do something which is objectionable, that’s because this is what I meant to do. This is what is this is what God is willing. This is the right thing. So we have to be cautious about that ourselves.

Apart from that, we all have certain weaknesses, which that we can’t just wish away. See, so for some people, they might have anger and they start practicing Bhakti and their anger goes away. But we all have this we all may have the same conditioning, but the conditioning maybe having different depths in different or the different magnitude in different people. Or somebody chants and their anger goes away. Somebody practices Bhakti but their anger doesn’t go away.

That doesn’t mean they’re not practicing Bhakti sincerely. That doesn’t mean that they’re not advancing. But sometimes the anger might be very, very deep rooted in some. It might be huge conditioning. See, if I am here, you see, this is indulgence.

This is giving you to anger. This is giving you to lust talking into greed, and this is abstinence. And for somebody, it might just be smooth path because give it up and go here. For somebody else, it might be a huge mountain. And for them, if they get angry and for them, it is just it might be very, very difficult to control.

So we see this difference even now in Pandavas. Yudhishthir is quite pacific. Even in pro Yudhishthir stays calm. Sometimes it appears as if he’s looking for an opportunity to get provoked. He’s itching for a fight.

Now both of them are devotees but both of them have their personality. So, now, Bhima has you to to reign him, to control him. So, if we know that we or someone else has a particular weakness then we need to create the safeguards for ourselves. If I am vulnerable, if this condition is very deep within me, then better I don’t take a particular service. So if somebody has a tendency of, say, somebody has somebody has greed, and you make them the accountant of the project.

Well, it’s, it’s it’s sometimes just it’s because of certain conditionings. For some people, it is humanly not possible to resist. So if that is the case, then it is best not to put them to circumstances. And both that particular devotee as well as others, they need to recognize this. And they need to make some arrangement without without disgracing the devotee, without, without humiliating the devotee anyway.

It is an everybody has conditions. So sometimes some weaknesses can be overcome easily. Sometimes we may have to live with some weaknesses while we keep practicing. So that is the case. So so if if that weakness is there already and some temptation comes up, some situation comes up where it’s easy to indulge, then people may also be having wicked ways.

So Bhakti is complex. It’s not as, like, a simple formula. Do this, do this, and everything we do that. Each person is individual, and each of us has to find all the best way we can practice ourselves. Does that answer your question?

Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Yes. So talking about the investment Yeah. Invested in something, then the currency was greater.

Yeah. Mhmm. So in relationship, we will there’s only chance of getting hurt. So is it best to be emotionally invested in Krishna and not in any other relationships? The material world is a dangerous place, and there is no safe way, actually.

Every path is dangerous. So it’s, sometimes, traditionally warriors. Warriors who often get scars. Then they go well prepared, well trained, and they fight in a war, but they get scarred. And when they get scarred, at that time, it’s painful.

But for many warriors, those scars are like their ornaments. I fought so heroically. But just tell them that even physical scars, if you look at every person’s life at their level of the mind, everybody will have emotional scars, and we can’t avoid it. So when we are trying to serve Krishna, we need to see these emotional scars scars are, like, also like. We we don’t know nobody wants to get scared.

But if we don’t if we are not emotionally invested in others, then we can’t have we can’t have deep relationships. One of the main reasons why people come to spirituality is for a sense of community. I have a whole seminar on this topic. You know, broadly people come to spirituality from 4 ways. For social needs, for emotional needs, for intellectual needs, and for cultural or religious needs.

So a broad so broad large number of people come for social needs. And if they find that nobody cares for me over here, then what is the point of coming here? So we do need to connect with people. We don’t need to be we didn’t we do need to, to some extent, be emotionally invested in them. And it’s true that sometimes we will be disappointed.

We may even be betrayed. But it’s in perspective that we’re doing this for Krishna. And with some people, we’ll bond more closely. Some people will not bond that closely. That’s fine.

It’s just that the way human beings are. And, yes, what you’re saying is true that our we need to try to have the maximum emotional investment in Krishna. No doubt about it. But also says that in the neck of instruction that that the Krishna conscious movement is nourished by the 6 fold loving exchanges. So 6 fold loving exchanges are all all signs of our ways in which you can emotionally invest Especially and that the that that we do very commonly.

There’s no problem with that. Giving is very common. Giving gifts taking gifts is also okay if we do it periodically. But what we very less do is share our heart and let others hear let others share their heart. So I talk with some devotees who are in the mental health profession.

I mean, psych psychologist or something like that. They said that many many devotees, they actually feel the need to go to psychologists. Why? Because they feel if I open my heart to devotee, I’ll be judged. The psychologists will judge me.

So that is unfortunate. So we have to so we have to connect with people. But as you rightly said, we have to be cautious. So that means we can’t get too emotionally fixated on someone. And so there is I talk about few things.

There’s there is emotional, you could say, bankruptcy, emotional investment, and there is emotional fixation. Emotional background there is no emotion in the relationship. It’s like to be great people and you smile it’s like a secretary smile robotic. So people just don’t feel any correctly. But emotional attachment or emotional fixation is where we just can’t stop thinking of someone.

That where where thinking of that person becomes a fixation instead of instead of Krishna. So we will all have some stronger relationships and but if any particular relationship starts becoming so dominant that it starts coming in the way of our relationship with Krishna. So the emotional investment means it’s like if we make an investment then we can withdraw. It’s not easy to withdraw, but we can withdraw. As fixation means that investor, you just can’t take it out.

So we need to have that and this is this person is important. This person is important for me because he’s also part of Krishna. He’s coming closer to Krishna, and then we are bonded well. But if it doesn’t work, then I should be able to be true, And we have to connect with someone else. We need to see that it’s like, say, I am here.

Krishna is here. And Krishna can offer some love to me directly, and Krishna can sometimes accept my service directly also. But Krishna also offers me love to people around me and Krishna also accepts my service to people around me. So if we see only that person as a person giving us love or only that person as taking as we giving service to them, me serving them, and we don’t see Krishna. Then if that person stops being so loving, say, if it happens, it’s a senior for us.

They stop loving. And what happened? We feel empty. So we need to see that if they are loving us and we are grateful for them to be the instrument, but we see them as the instrument. It is Krishna who is offering his love to us to them.

And sometimes Krishna may decide that, okay, the love is not coming to this person. It may come to some other person. So emotional investment is wherever there is a wherever there’s opportunity for service, where there’s opportunity to have a loving relationship, we accept that. We honor that. But we don’t reduce our relationship, Krishna, only that channel.

That instrument. And similarly, when we are serving, we might spend a lot of time and energy in cultivating someone. And that person just goes away. Just goes away without any explanation and doesn’t answer of a moment. We feel we feel very betrayed.

So at that time, what do we do? We see that, you know, I did this I did this for this person. We also did this for Krishna. This person didn’t come, but what else is I done for Krishna Krishna. That is going to be that is going to be rewarded.

That is not gone waste. I once asked us in a Sanyasi preacher, a woman guru, a spiritual master that sometimes we are giving classes and the audience is just not interested. The audience is there just as a ritual, maybe they are looking at the watch, they are looking at the other. So then how do you enthuse yourself with that? So now you said that think that that class is a preparation for a future class when the audience is interested.

So if you see only this, you say, what have this event I’m here? If I see that I’m going to serve Krishna, okay, not here, but in the future. So let me do the best that I can hear. So so we have to find out some way to offer our best there, but at the same time do not get get caught over there. So if we have that vision, like we had room her as mother tells her that tells him that the love that we still can offer me offer you is more than 1,000,000 of mother like we can offer.

So she’s not denying her love. If if her love is simply Maya, it’s false. It’s 0. And millions of tangles 0 is also 0. So it’s not that her love is false, but he’s saying you can offer much more.

So I offered you as much love and shelter as I can, but in this situation I can’t. Please go to Mishnu. So like that, we need to have that vision. But we are going to relate with people as real people with real emotions and real individual personality and beliefs. But the same time, we also say that we are relating with Krishna through them.

Do you answer your question? Emotional investment. So detachment also in that you are saying. Yeah. Emotional investment with a bigger picture.

And this is I’m not just relating with this person, I’m relating with Krishna’s own spouse. So we if we so a tunnel vision means we see only that relationship and nothing else. We see this relationship and we see our relationship, Krishna. Then it won’t be then we will invest without getting without getting fixated. So okay.

It’s just on the question. You mentioned about, being cautious. Yeah. So when we start doing being cautious, are we saying are we bringing in the judgment? What what do we mean by cautious?

Okay. So when we are being cautious are we judging? There is a difference between discriminating. The word discrimination has a lot of negative connotation today not a racial discrimination, gender discrimination. So so but but, actually, the word has this has a non has functional meaning also.

I I write in the Gita every desire article about. There should be no discrimination against discrimination. The word word is a functional word. Discrimination is the capacity to discern, to analyze. So we need to discern.

It’s like when we put when we are going to say swim or take a bath in a river. We first put our toe in, we put our foot in, we see how cold it is. And then we gradually go in. So every relationship we have to take small small steps and then it’s just intelligence. So to say that so discriminating is or if you want to do this, discerning is essential.

Judging will be undesirable. Judging is again, judge if you want to put it further that even judging is also fine but being judgmental is not. Judging is more for the situation and how it affects us. Judgmental is we make a label for that. Yes.

Sometimes we ask some question to somebody and they give give an answer that just doesn’t make sense to us. And one of the most exasperating thing that as a as a devotee is we ask a practical question and we get a philosophical answer. So so if you find that somebody would do this, this doesn’t make sense the way they explain, then you say, okay, I may decide that, you know, this is not the person I should ask questions to. At least this kind of questions to. Somebody else will ask this kind of questions.

So we have to find out. So we it’s it’s not so much that we are judging that devotee, but we are evaluating or discerning the appropriate the utility or the particular is that one level discrimination. What is favorable for is unfavorable for that is integral to surrender. And we have to do that. So it’s easy to slide from there and say that, okay, to to label that devotee only particularly.

It doesn’t have to be like that. We can be respectful, wonderful devotee, but it doesn’t it doesn’t but you know, in the their way of presentation of questions and their way of practicing, their way of answering, it doesn’t gel with me. We we can have that level of individuality. So we do need to we do need to evaluate, we do need to discern. That kind of question is absolutely essential.

So thank you very much..

The post When people betray us – Ramayana wisdom appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

Hello, Krishna. Hey, Krishna. Do I think this mic needs to be fixed? This mic is too humble. So that’s it.

Yeah. Thank you. To give it some satisfaction. So one of the oldest themes in literature across the world is the conflict between good and evil, and especially the triumph of good over evil, of virtue over wise. Now I’ll talk about one such ancient story which addresses this theme in very vivid dramatic terms, the Ramayana’s book that has think.

The Ramayana is a book that has actually captivated millions of people for millennia. And I’ll talk about this primarily in 3 parts. 1 is I’ll talk about the what do we mean by good and evil or virtue and wise? And then we’ll, what does the Ramayana talk about this? How does the Ramayan story tell?

And then eventually we’ll talk about how this applies in our life. So let’s start with the question. How many of you feel that people are basically good? Okay. How many of you feel that people are basically bad?

Some of us. Yeah. Okay. Let me do you answer the question? Do you feel that some people are basically bad?

Some people actually, it’s too thank you. We would deeply like to believe that people are basically good. But when we conduct ourselves in life, we do see that people sometimes act in terrible things. They sometimes hurt us, they sometimes betray us. And if we are too naive thinking that everyone is good, we will be shattered.

We’ll be exploited. We’ll be abused. But at the same time, if we become cynical, thinking that everyone is bad, then we will end up with loneliness. I saw Garabakar. He said, the more I get to know people, the more I love my dog.

So when we have bad experience with people, we might start thinking people all people are bad. Now the the direct traditions of India say that actually when you want to talk about people’s basic nature, we are complex religions, and our existence is multidimensional. Multidimensional means we have our physical shell, that’s our body, then we have our mind. And beyond that is our spiritual essence, our soul. That’s what we are at our core.

So in this three level, body, mind, and soul. At the level of body, all of us are human beings. At the level of the mind, each one of us has different desires, impressions, conceptions, stored. And we as spiritual beings are on a multilife journey. So therefore, we often get impressions from previous lives into this life.

Many of you may be parents and you have children. Each child, even if both children have and you have 2, 3 children, all children have come on the same parents, but each child is individual. Different. Even if the children are twins and even if they are identical twins, still they’re individually different. Their personality is different.

So we are the impressions in our mind are shaped by what they come from our previous lives. They’re also shaped by our upbringing. They’re also shaped by our association. So, basically, these three factors, past life, upbringing, and association, they broadly affect the kind of impressions we have in our mind. And if somebody has repeatedly done bad things, then they get habituated to doing bad.

And then after some time, they may even deny it in doing bad. So suppose we are going on a crowded road and we accidentally step on someone’s foot. If you realize it, it’s, oh, I’m sorry. You’ll have to change. But imagine somebody steps on somebody’s foot and I notice they have stepped and then they deliberately left lift their shoe and bang it on their face.

What cruelty is that? So, when we talk about evil, evil essentially means to cause suffering for the sake of causing suffering. Sometimes, just the way, like, things are in the world, suffering is unavoidable. If I’m going on a crowded road, I might just step on someone’s foot because it’s so crowded, I can’t avoid it. That’s unavoidable.

Sometimes, suffering is essential. As when a doctor use injection, a doctor does surgery. Sometimes it is essential. But it serves some purpose. But when suffering is caused simply for the sake of causing suffering, That is evil.

So that’s a very broad definition of evil. But evil does exist. Some people who are sadistic just delight in causing pain to others. So now why are some people like this? Because the impressions within them are like that.

They have very dark impression, which impel them to do dark things. And not only they impel them, they give it to those impulses and they keep doing dark things. So it can be because of anger, it can be because of greed, it can be because of lust. I had a friend in Russia. He told me that during the communist days, there was, like, a a a satanical cartoon which was propagated and and, yes, he said that the news says that the price of vodka has risen.

So then a child asks his father, dad, now will you drink less? Because the price has gone up. And the father says, no. You will eat less. So now somebody can get so hooked on to something that just to gratify their craving for an automated private children of food.

Sometimes our vices within us might take so much control. I mean, dominantly does so much that we become desensitized to those around us. So now within, vice. There’s virtue. Verbal and within vice, we can have 2 distinct categories.

So I thought about a difference between virtue and vice. So is there something like this? Yes. You could say that if somebody is causing pain to others, that’s vice. But within vice also, we could have 2 distinct categories.

1 is weakness and the other is wickedness. Weakness is where someone sometimes succumbs to lust, succumbs to anger, succumbs to greed, and they end up doing something which is which is hurtful to others, which is unethical. But then, afterwards they regret it. Say, I want to give this up. I will not do this, sir.

They may not succeed immediately in stopping it, but they do try to do it. There’s at least some remorse. I should not have done this. But in wickedness, there’s no remorse. When somebody is wicked, they not only do bad, but they don’t even feel bad on doing bad.

Prabhu, you think, let’s see how clever I am. I can do this and I can get up with it. So in in people who are with weakness, their conscience is still there. And their conscience makes them come back to the right path. Or at least makes them aware you are on the wrong path.

But in wickedness, the consciousness has been numbed and down. Collisions are consciousness. Conscience has been numbed and down. Our conscience is like our inner compass. So now, in general, whenever somebody succumbs to weakness, they need to be helped.

Weakness needs to be forgiven. Weakness is reciprocate with kindness, with forgiveness, and gradually, weakness can rise to good weakness can be overcome and the person can rise to goodness. But when somebody has a weakness, then forgiveness for wickedness is foolish. Because that person has no desire to change. So if they do something wrong and it sometimes the the the sometimes somebody does something wrong and we protect them from the consequences of their actions.

Because we feel they’re not happy. But sometimes the consequences are the only way somebody can learn. So when there is wickedness, there has to be not forgiveness, but justice. Not revenge, but justice. So when we talk about wise, virtue and vice, vice can either be weakness or it can be wickedness.

And we will look at this with this broad framework that if you consider as goodness, weakness, wickedness. And above them is the supreme embodiment of goodness that is god. So if weakness associates with goodness, then the those with weakness, if they associate with those who are devoted to god, those they connect with god, then they can overcome their weakness and come toward goodness. But if weakness associates with wickedness, then they will be dragged down. So with this background, let’s look at so this is the the the conceptual background.

After that, let’s look at the story of the Ramayana. The Ramayana is a ancient epic, which is not just ancient but also timeless. It demonstrates timeless principles through its characters. So the the Bhagavad Gita, which is the ancient yogic text explains that there are multiple levels of existence. We look currently at the material level.

And beyond this is the spiritual level of reality. And sometimes from that spiritual level, the divine descends to this level of reality. And that descent is called as avatar. Now of course, in today’s world, because of the Mohia avatar and because of online, people have a different idea. This is my avatar on this particular site, on this particular video game or whatever.

The avatar had the idea of but still there’s a there’s a similarity that avatar has the idea of crossing gold. But I’m in the physical realm and the digital realm, this is my avatar. So this is so so our concept of Octa is crossing over from the spiritual level of reality to the material level of reality. So when millennia ago, Ram, who is a manifestation of the divine, descended to the world. And he descended because at that time, there are many demoniac forces who were exploiting, abusing, murdering, and making the earth into hell.

And at that time, Ram was a very virtuous and powerful ruler. He protected the Earth from the demons. But that one particular point, the most powerful among the demons was named Rawar. Now the word Rawar itself signifies wickedness. Because Rawar means one who makes others cry.

There are some there are 2 kinds of people. Some people bring happiness wherever they go, and some people bring happiness whenever they go. So Ravana was like that in the second category. Wherever you’d go, people would start crying. You’re such a horrible person.

And then you would be you would go away. People would he was a high of relief. Of course, because he was a high of relief, if he kept him alive. Very brutal. And eventually, he he was also generally, whenever somebody has power, a power very easily goes to the head.

And once the power goes to the head, one starts thinking that everything should dance to my tune. That everything is for my pleasure, for my enjoyment. So Ram had a had a beautiful queen, a consort, Sita. And Rama, through a vicious controversy, abducted Sita. And then, Ram had to make a great effort to recover.

At that time, Ram had no army. He was in the he was for a period of few years living in the forest at that time as a mendicant. Although he was a powerful prince, so he had no army. And he has formed a army of of a species called Vanara. Vanara means Narara is human.

Vanara is are they human? The idea is they were they were these were ape like beings, but they were they had some simian and some human characteristics. And then they decided to march to the kingdom of Lanka, which is the kingdom of Rawan. And Ram tried his best to resolve things and kill me. Nowadays, we are very apprehensive whenever somebody talks about whenever violence is associated with religion, because we have the specter of terrorism.

And now if we look at the ancient epics, the war was always fought according to serious war codes, which were considered to be violent. And the basic principle of war code was that no civilians are to be attacked. Broadly, we can say that even in the Ramayana, although Raul the demon we see that the war was fought, he was demoniac. The war was fought according to war bonds. What are they basically?

No attacking siblings. One warrior will only attack another warrior. And even the other warrior is to be attacked only when that warrior is equipped. And that warrior is alert. So it is like, let’s let’s have a test of our skills.

Let’s have a test of our strength. Now if you see, today, what is done in the name of religion, terrorism is exactly the opposite. All three characteristics. They attack only civil institution. And those who are having no weapons and those who are having they’re not alert.

These cock catch people are unaware. So this is brutal. This is wicked. But the point is that there are times when strong action is required. And Ram tried his best.

He said, I don’t want a war with you, Ravan. You just return, Sita. And Ravan, he not only had war, he had lust, he had great arrogance. And he said, Ravan will return. And he was very insolent.

Very arrogant, very insolent. Even his own tenders advised him. But he never listened to them. Now he had kept Sita in confinement. He had he had received a curse because he had violated many women in the past.

He had been cursed that if he ever took a woman against her will, he would die. And so he had not, violated Sita. He kept and Sita, she had refused to even end Sita as the consort of Ram. She said, I will not even enter into your palace. So he had kept her in a forest.

She said, Sita was so devoted to her, to Ram. She said that as long as Ram is living in the forest, I will also live in the forest. So he kept her in a garden. And now he couldn’t have his way with her. But that didn’t stop him from using demonic means.

And that was He surrounded Sita with hideous demonesses. And they would constantly threaten her, taunt her, and scare her. And she’s all alone. If we’re all alone, that’s that’s difficult. But if we’re alone in trying to live in a particular way and everyone else is discouraging us, everyone else is criticizing us, everyone else is threatening us, It becomes very difficult to continue, to do what we are doing.

I suppose see, right now I’m speaking. And if I speak something, say, every one of you start glaring at me. Not just staring, but glaring at me. And I’ll start thinking, did I speak something wrong? What’s happening?

Isn’t it? So we are very social creatures. And if the people around us discipline to us, in some way, then it affects us. I travel across the world. Almost 8, 7, 8 months I’m traveling.

But there’s one city where I go, whenever a few talks, there is one person who comes and sits right in the front like you’re sitting. And sitting in the front, just glares at me throughout the class. Now the only way I can give a talk is not look at that person. So the point I’m making is if everybody is disapproving us, everybody is criticizing us, it is very difficult to stick to our principle, stick to our course of action. For that, if we are to stick, we need to do one thing.

We shouldn’t overvalue those who devalue us. If one person is just glaring at me, I can’t overvalue that one person. And we should value those who value us. That way we can maintain our stability even among people who are critical to us. So although Sita was surrounded by all these Dionysus, and they were scaring her, threatening her, she remained firm.

How she didn’t overvalue their opinions. And she, in her heart, she remembered her lord, ma’am. She remembered her family there. She remembered her friends. And she was thinking, what will please them?

What will displease them? What is the right thing to do? And eventually, although the Ravana tried various means to try to threaten and scare Sita, Sita was unaffected. And the war eventually unfolded. When the war unfolded, it was a terrible war.

But one after another after another, Ravan and his forces were destroyed. And Ravan tried to use many, nefarious, tricky means to try to bring down Ram’s forces. But somehow, Ram’s forces survive all of them. And here also, sometimes a great person’s greatness is seen not just in the great things that they do, but also in how they do small things. So now the the the war was caught according to war codes.

And the idea was that during the day, they would fight, and during the night, they would resist. So Raul gave orders to his soldiers that now this Raul’s kingdom was an island surrounded by an ocean. So he said, all my soldiers, all the demons in my side who die, at night, you should go and toss their bodies into the ocean as far away as possible. Why? He said the next morning, when the enemy soldiers come, they will see there are no corpses here.

And they will become discouraged, thinking that we did not cause any casualties with others. So he had, truly, an attitude of use and throw. So that’s now some we have some people have we have used and throw commodities now. That’s sometimes very detrimental to the environment. Because if it’s for just one time use, it just pollutes the environment.

In the oceans, there is a great garbage patch. It’s like mails and mails of garbage. It’s just there in the is it Atlantic or Pacific Ocean? It’s just a great. Pacific Ocean.

Yeah. The great great. Great. Pacific. You can throw things at now we may do it with things, but Rava would do it with people.

Get them to fight for him and throw them away physically. Inhumane attitude. On the other hand, every night, Ram would stay awake late in the night, and personally offer perform the last rites of all those who had been martyred for his cause. And eventually, as the war went on, slowly but surely, Ram started giving the upper hand. And then the final war began.

Now Rawan is described that he is he’s a historical character who existed long ago, but it’s also described that he represents wise, especially the wise of lust. Lust is not just sexual desire. Lust is generally any desire that goes to a self destructive degree. The desire is a natural willingness. We all want to grow.

We all want to grow. We all were in this at one time, but we’ve grown now. 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000 of cells in our world. That’s growth is natural. So similarly, we all want to grow socially, we want to grow financially, we want to grow intellectually.

We all want to grow. That growth is natural. But cancer is also growth. However, cancer is growth that is destructive because it is disproportionate. One set of cells start growing so much that they their growth starts destroying the whole body.

Similarly for us, we all have desires and to be conscious is to be desirous. But sometimes desires can start growing disproportionately and they become destructive. Desires become like cancer. So Ravan represents a cancerous overgrowth of lust where he had he knew no secret boundaries. And he wanted whatever he wanted, however he wanted, whenever he wanted.

That was the idea. So when the final war took place, at that time, Ram and Ram were fighting. So Ram shot many arrows. Now arrows can be shot at biggest part of the at at the body. So Ram Rama would shoot Ram would shoot arrows in the head of Ram.

But Rama had some mythical mystical powers by which he would not be killed by the arrow that would hit his head. And it went on and on and on. Even if a head would fall off, it would come back again. Head would fall off, it would come back again. Head would fall off, it would come back again.

And then finally, Ram was told by one of his wise associates, that you shoot not at the head, but at the heart. At the heart. And then Ram shot hair which is straight into the heart. And it went into the heart, it just peels round through the heart and he fell. Life leaving his body.

When he left When his soul left his body, he gave a roar that shook the earth. And that day, when Ram won that great war over Ram, that day, historically, the anniversary of that is tomorrow. That is called Ram Vijayurta. The victory the celebration on the victory of Ram. It’s called also Dasara.

Now in India, on this occasion, there are giant effigies of this Raman maid. And then there are there are people who come together and they there’s a big bow from which the arrow is shot. And his fly flaming arrow goes and hits the effigy of robot and then the whole effigy can just fire. And what it symbolizes is that we pray for purity. And this symbolizes that just as the vicious Ravana was overcome by Ram, Similarly, whatever vices are there in our heart, they may also be overcome by the potency of Raama.

That the potency of Raama also manifest as his names. So we are following the kirtan of the Hare Krishna mantra, in which also we have the name of Ram. So when we chant these mantras, it’s like arrows are going into our heart. And the vices that are there within, they’re getting weakened. They’re getting destroyed.

It’s it’s significant that as long as the arrows were hitting the head, they were just the heads were regrowing. But if the arrow pierced the heart, it was over. So what that signifies is that we cannot overcome desire simply by removing the visible manifestations of the desire. Visible manifestations means if I just say, okay. I have something, some bad habit, I don’t want to do it, I keep doing it.

And I resolve, I will not do it ever again. Then that intention is good. But desires keep surfacing. Keep surfacing again and again and again. It’s desires seem to be incredibly just like we have the HIV virus.

No matter how many times we try to destroy it, it somehow resurface. So many of our lower desires are like that. So there many of us make new year resolutions. So I was once invited for a talk show, a radio talk show on, new year resolutions. I had done some research.

So it seems almost 80% of the new year’s resolutions that people make. The the resolutions they make on new year are not new. You made the resolution the previous year, it stayed for some time and then it went off. So what happens is that when we try to attack desire, it doesn’t work. Because the desires are too resilient.

They just keep coming back in and again. So when Ram hit the arrow at the heart, what that signifies is that we don’t just try to change or control our desires. We change our heart. Change our heart means change our conception of what is desirable. That comes by spiritual education.

That comes by spiritual purification. So as so when we’re trying to control desire, that means what? Yeah. This is good, but I’m not meant to do this. Now we say, yeah.

I know it’s not good but we may say it as harmful for me. We might verbally say it but inside us, we don’t believe it. So the real way to deal with desires is not simply to try to control the next story. Yes. Sometimes someone wanna control the essential, but the cure is not just control.

The cure is change of heart. And changing our conception, changing our definition of happiness, that is what is done by the spiritual practice of the yoga. So when Ram shot an arrow at the heart of Rahmah, what it signifies is that that similar arrow when it goes to the heart, our heart can become pure. See, if you all I always talk about impressions in our mind. We all have different impressions.

So suppose we have a a robot which is programmed that if you show it red light and it says it is blue light. Now no matter how many times we show we tell it is a red light, and it it will always call it as blue. Just showing it more red light again and again is not going to change. We’ll change the programming. So similarly for us, if if we see, we have all been programmed in certain way that we have certain programmed definitions of habits.

And one as long as we have those definitions, this is enjoyable. And then somebody said, don’t do it. Okay. I’ll not do it. But then, because our definition is still enjoyable, but I should not do it.

Why should I not do it? And sometimes some opportunity will come and we’ll succumb. So what we need to do is change the programming. All of us can look back in our lives. We all have certain definitions of happiness.

Now we may have achieved some of those things. We’ve not achieved some of those things. But did that really make us happy? So the whole process of Bhakti Yoga is about changing the programming which makes us function. Now in the case of Ravan, there are some people who are just not ready to change their programming.

We can say everybody is changeable, but maybe not in this life. So Ravan was in that sense incorrigible. And that’s why he had to be punished. But even amid this punishment, generally, if one army wins over the other army, then often there is brutal vandalization of the reputed children. All the wealth is plundered.

Everybody who can be victimized and violated and enslaved. All kinds of war crimes happen. But in this case, absolutely nothing happened. And eventually, Ram had a faithful and devoted assistant, Hanuma. Ram said Hanuma to Sita.

Sita has still been captivated. And as I said, no civilians were attacked, so she was away. And Hanuma was sent with a message that Ram has won and see Ram would like to see you soon. He started to send a message. Now Hanuman had come earlier there once to meet Sita, and he has seen how all the evilnesses around were threatening and tormenting.

So at that time, when Ram when Anwar told Sita that Ram has won. Raman is out of the Ravan is now eliminated, and he will soon be reunited with Ram. Sita was jubilant. And then, at that time, Hanuman was Arvan was happy to see her happiness. But then he said, you know, all these demonesses, they threatened and tormented you for so long.

So for a whole Sita was almost for a year in the prison. In prison, in that in that garden park. She said that, I want to give all of them a sound thrashing. They threatened and tormented you so much. And Sita looked at Anuban, and she said that they meant no they had no malice in that.

They were simply doing what their master loved it. He said there’s no need. She said there’s no need to punish her. He said that now I’m just happy that nobody is stopping me from uniting with Ram again. And she gives quite a discourse on forgiveness over there.

And he says that those who are virtuous, they forgive the wrongdoings of others. Even if the wrongs have been done to them, still they forgive. Forgive. And human hears this and is amazed. Somebody who suffered so much, for her to forgive so so easily, he’s amazed that you’re a saintly lady.

So now here is a very significant point which will bring, like, my starting and the story to a circular conclusion. That see, Rawan couldn’t be given forgiveness. But the delinquencies were given forgiveness. Sometimes we ask is sometimes we we say forgiveness is good. Forgive people.

Yes. We should forgive. Definitely. But forgiveness is a virtue and beautifulness is also a virtue. Forgiveness is a virtue and dutifulness is also a virtue.

So a, if you want if society is to be made, social order is to be maintained, then everybody has to do their duty. And if somebody obstructs somebody else’s duty, then social order will crumble. So if, doctor misdiagnoses some disease and sometimes gives a wrong prescription. Then overall, if the doctor has always been treating patients well, carefully, then one incidental, oversight can be provoked. But if some doctors deliberately complicate the disease of the patient so that a doctor said that so that they can keep getting more and more bills from them.

And then they deliberately learn someone and that cannot be forgiven. So everybody has to do their deed. So Rawan was obstructing Sita in doing her duty to do now. Rawan was disrupting the citizens of the world from living life virtues. Well, the demonesses, they were simply opening up.

So when somebody is disrupting social order, strong actions will be denied. But there is no there is even under justice, there is difference between justice and vindictiveness. Justice is done not so much because you did this to me, so I’ll do this to you. Rather, you did this to me and if you do not get consequences, then you will keep doing this to others. And others will also start doing the same thing.

So for the sake of maintaining order in society, justice is required. It’s essential. But vindictiveness is that you did this to me and I do this to you. When people are vindictive, they when they are revengeful or vindictive, they basically become obsessed with the other person. And their whole sense of self existence and their purpose of their existence become centered on causing pain to those who have caused pain to them.

And that is a very negative way to live. So Ram as a virtuous king had to punish those who were vicious and he did that to Rav. But Sita, in her virtuous nature, she saw that they are no longer a threat to him. So she forgave. Let them go.

So we see this dynamism that apply that is demonstrated in the Ramayana. So the victory was not just that Ram defeated Raman. That that’s glorious. Good triumph over him. But the victory is also that Sita never became bitter.

Sita never became vindictive. That sometimes what happens is when good tries to overcome evil. Good may overcome evil but in the process, good itself becomes evil. Sometimes when we deal when we are dealing with bitter people, then we are dealing with bad people. And then just trying to deal with them also makes us hard hearted, makes us harsh, makes us, it contaminates us.

So ultimately, for all of us, the virtue of we all have, as I said, we have at our level of soul, every one of us is pure, every one of us is godly. Every one of us has a potential for virtue and godliness. But at the level of the mind, all of us have different impressions. And some impressions are good and some are not so good. So we need to rise from so that this potential for virtue has to overcome the propensity for vice.

That is there in us. It could be a propensity for weakness or it could be a propensity for weakness. This potential for virtue has to rise. So I asked, is everyone innately good? Yes.

At the level of soul, everyone is innately good. But at the level of the mind, everyone, what is their innate quality? It is seen through their actions. Now the process of bhakti yoga is a process by which the godliness, the soul becomes activated. The godliness starts to become manifested.

And whether it is weakness or wickedness, both can be overcome. Both can be beautified. So all the Ramayana is a book of great It’s a story of great drama, action, conspiracy, romance, everything that is there in a thriller movie or thriller novel is there in the drama. But beyond it all, it is a demonstration of the potency of potency of divinity to uplift humanity so that our divinity starts manifesting. Our godliness and our virtue starts manifesting.

And that is what inspired the millions for millennia. The purifying potency of the Ramayana is what has attracted throughout history, especially in the Dalvik Traditions. In India as well as the Indian subcontinent. Now that that core message that we all have the potential for the for virtue, for godliness, for goodness within us, And we all can bring out that virtue. And we all can become better human beings, and we all can light the world.

The light of divinity wants to shine through each one of us. And to the extent we let the propensity for wise within us control us, then we don’t let that light of divinity come through. And to that extent, our heart and our life remains darker. And not just our heart and our life, but our world remains darker. But if we connect with the divine through the practice of bhakti yoga, and then those impurities start getting removed.

And then the light of divinity starts manifesting through us, through each one of us. Now, if we can pull our act together, if we can overcome our propensities toward weakness and wickedness, then each one of us can do so much more good. Each one of us can become so much better. And how much good we can do? That, even we don’t know because God can manifest through us.

God can use us as instruments for doing good in the world. And discover it just by pulling our act together, discovering how much good we can do. That is life’s ultimate adventure. Not just climbing up some mountains or going skiing or going, any kind of adventure sports. It’s fine.

But discovering how much good we can do. If we bring out the goodness within us, that is life’s ultimate adventure. And the triumph of good over evil which the Ramayana and the Ram Vijayana also demonstrates is a call for such an adventure for every one of us. To discover how good we can become and how much good we can manifest in the world by manifesting our godliness from within. So I’ll summarize what I spoke.

I spoke the other theme of the significance of the Ram Vijay also. I started by first talking about a common motive throughout history has been that the battle between good and evil. And we talk about good and evil in somewhat subtler terms that every one of us at a at the level of soul is good. At the level of mind, we have different impressions. And the impressions can be of some goodness or can be of vice.

Wise has 2 categories, weakness and wickedness. Now weakness is where a person does wrong but their conscience tells them it’s wrong and they try to overcome it. Wickedness is their conscience is dead. So wickedness deserves forgiveness. Wickedness deserves consequences.

Deserves justice. So then this theme, I should talk about how it’s demonstrated in the Ramayana. Now Ram is why his queen was abducted by Raman. And Ram died by every possible peaceful way to resolve but Raman was arrogant adamant And eventually a confrontation was unavoidable. But even that confrontation, Ram did not lose his compassion.

Ravan had a used a true attitude toward his soldiers, throwing them, tossing them into the ocean so that the enemies would notice how wouldn’t be angry by thinking how many casualties there on the opposite side. But Ram personally prayed every night for his, for his soldiers for to perform their last reigns. And eventually, in the final battle between Ram and Ravan, Ram Ravan was not killed by the attack on his heads. That was why? The attack on his heart.

So his Ravan’s head represents our various desires, our ungodly desires, our lower desires. Because by trying to control those desires, I will not do this. That doesn’t work. We need to go to the heart. Change the heart means change our conception of what is pleasure.

And that change of conception happens through spiritual education and spiritual purification. It is done through Bhakti Yoga. So Ram Ram’s arrow is going to Ram’s heart is similar to the names of Ram going to our heart. And they will remove the wise, the weakness and wickedness within our heart. Now the triumph of Ram over Ram is not just sold.

When Hanuman wanted to punish those who have tormented Sita, Ram said Sita said no. And she did not become vindictive. Although she lived amongst evil and she underwent great suffering, she did not become vindictive. And that was also a triumph of good over evil. The association with evil did not make good evil.

So for all of us, wherever we are in life, if we can bring out the potential for virtue within us And we can overcome the propensity for wise that is there within us. We all can become much better than what we are. The light of divinity can shine to us and leave the world a brighter. And discovering how much good we can do in the world if we connect with God. That discovery is life’s ultimate adventure.

And the Ram Ram’s trial over our end invites us all to join in that ultimate adventure of life. Thank you very much.

The post The significance of Rama Vijayotsav – How goodness punishes wickedness and forgives weakness appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

Hello, Krishna. It’s wonderful to be here among all of you once again. And I’ll speak today on the Ramayan on the topic of how character is reformed and how it is deformed. How sometimes things change for the good, good, and sometimes things change for the bad. So I’ll start with we’ll discuss 3 case studies on the Ramayan about how change happens, and we’ll talk with 3 concepts.

So Hold on. Wickedness, wickedness, and goodness. So now we can make this into, like, a table Yeah. With 3 further columns. Well, add the characters over there.

Sure. So here when we are talking about these three things, goodness, weakness, and wickedness. So let’s begin with the middle, weakness. So, yeah, 3 over there. So as the you can be seated here, and I’ll tell you what to write over there.

Sure. So, basically, what is thank you. All of us have weakness. Weakness means sometimes we get angry, sometimes we feel greedy, sometimes we feel envious, sometimes we feel lusty, whatever. So these are weaknesses which are there within every one of us.

Simultaneously, there is some goodness with all of us. There are some good qualities, some virtues, some good habits. So so goodness, weakness, now normally we talk about good and bad or virtue and vice. But here, I am dividing this. Goodness is virtue, but vice, you can divide into 2.

Weakness and wickedness. What is the difference? In weakness, one does wrong, but after doing wrong, one feels bad. I shouldn’t have done this. Basically, within us, there are two forces which can guard us from doing wrong.

It’s our conscience and our intelligence. Our intelligence guides us rationally. Hey. It shouldn’t have a legs and gives us the reasons why I should not do this. And our conscience guides us emotionally.

That means if we have a strong conscience and we do something bad, we feel bad about it. And the bad thing, I don’t want to feel like this. I’m feeling terrible. I’m feeling burdened by guilt because of what I did. I won’t do this again.

So both of these are like our inner guards, conscience and intelligence. So in people who have weakness, this conscience and intelligence are there, but they are temporarily over powered. So suppose somebody is, in a tempting situation. Say for example, nowadays in America, even in India, there’s a in colleges, there’s a big, fear of drugs. People get addicted to drugs.

So now student life, like all phases of life, is stressful. And sometimes the student might just want, I need some I need some relief. So much stress. This this this. I need some relief.

And maybe some friend tells them to take this truck to feel good. And in a moment of weakness, they drink the truck. So that is bad. But still after that, they will what did I do? I didn’t come here for this.

This can lead me down a very dangerous path. I’ll not do this. So in weakness, we may do something wrong for some time, but we come back on the right track. But different from weakness is wickedness. Wickedness is where that person’s conscience has almost become dumb in number.

The conscience doesn’t speak and the conscience doesn’t feel also. So numb means you don’t no sensation, numb dumb means no expression. So the conscience has become numb and dumb and then there are some people who nonchalantly do terrible things. And I was once in Calcutta. We were told Mayapur and just in the bus we were there.

We’re watching some some boys, they’re just chatting with their friends and all of them are nonchalantly, like, they’re picking up chickens and cutting the chickens and cutting and chatting. You know, like, we will cut they’re catching and cutting or lopping off their neck and then it’s cutting into pieces. How is the real life? I mean, in public, in front of everyone, like, it’s literally, like, we might talk with someone casually while cutting vegetables, they’re cutting like that. So now I wouldn’t want to call those children as wicked, but the point I’m making is that sometimes the conscience can become completely downward.

So if that’s what they have seen their parents doing, that’s what is their profession, then they just get habituated to do it. So to not feel bad on doing bad is terribly bad because then one inner safeguard that we have from doing bad, that has been removed. So, conscience has been dumped and with respect to intelligence, some intelligence can get perverted. When the intelligence gets perverted, the intelligence instead of controlling desire, it gets controlled by desire. That means that person uses their intelligence to do wrong in such a way that they will not get caught by it.

They’ll do wrong, and then they’ll carefully cover up their tracks. Once a person was pulled over by a cop because the speed the cop he asked the the the cop asked him, did you see the speed limit? Yes. I saw the speed limit. I just didn’t see you.

So the idea is doing wrong is not the problem. Just be smart enough that you don’t get caught while doing wrong. So when the intelligence becomes a servant of the lower desires, servants of the wises that we have, then so when both of these happen, when the conscience is silenced and the intelligence is perverted. The the the word is conscripted. Conscripted means that somebody, like, say, an Indian soldier is captured by a Pakistani army and then somehow that soldier is made into a Pakistani.

I think you change the party itself, so conscripted. But then for such people, what they have is not weakness. It is wickedness. Wickedness is where they do wrong and they sometimes not only not feel bad about doing wrong, they delight in doing wrong. They think it is my cleverness, see how much wrong I did, and I got away with it.

And this is the mentality Krishna talks about in the, in the 16th chapter. He says, this enemy, I have eliminated. That enemy, I’ll eliminate him. In this way, I’ll become the controller. I’ll become the enjoyer.

Who is there like me? I am great. We can almost envision that Krishna, when you’re speaking these words, maybe he was thinking of Duryodhana. The the demoniac this is what Duryodhana was doing. He was trying to eliminate the Pandavas.

So there are demoniac people and what they have is not weakness, but wickedness. So wickedness is basically wickedness is evil. Weakness is not evil. Weakness is just weakness. Wickedness is where, you know, to one aspect of this to in to do something wrong and then cover it up.

Other aspect of wickedness also is that to cause pain for the sake of causing pain. All of us during the course of our life, sometimes, we cause pain to others. Say, if you are walking on a, in a crowded road and we are rushing for some urgent work, you might step on someone’s foot and you might not even notice it. Now if you notice it, most of it will apply. I’m sorry, sir.

Now imagine if somebody is rushing along and they step on someone’s foot and they notice it. A person said and then they delegate a stab on their foot. Well, that would be evil. They are causing pain for the sake of causing pain. So that is also wickedness is associated with evil.

So Ravana in the Ramayana is said to be evil. He is he was wicked and he was evil. So he will cause pain and delight in causing pain. So, basically, for all of us, the topic we’re discussing is how his character reformed and deformed. So we’ll take 3 stories from the Ramayana of how, a character was affected.

So, let’s start with the first, you could write here kaikei and manthara and kaikei, that is weakness, manthara is wickedness and above here the goodness, you can write Bharat. So, basically, now weakness everyone has. Before I go to this case, one more point to establish for it. Weakness everyone has. Wickedness, few people have.

But what is especially dangerous is if weakness and wickedness come together, then wickedness will exploit the weakness. It’s like I talked about this, say, student who might just occasionally take some drugs, and I feel very bad about it. But suppose there’s a drug peddler over there and that drug people spots, this this student is a little weak and deliberately dangles drugs, gives free drugs and he will send his drugs to various to people. Then what happens? Weakness is exploited by wickedness.

Then weakness also ends up acting in ways that are wicked. That same student, you know, that student might be very honest and upright, may not lie to parents, may steal money from their parents place and may be rob from elsewhere. Addiction is often a very common predictor of criminality. Mass Opposmiculitis, they go down. So, a person who has weakness, if they become attached to somebody with wickedness or they come or they come close then they will degenerate.

So now this is what happened in the Ramayana with Kaikai and Nantara. Kaikai had a normal weakness. Every relationship, when you go close, there are tensions. I met a devotee recently. He’s a marriage counselor, and he said, I have seen only 2 kinds of families.

He said He was also talking about western families. He’s a westerner. He’s a constant western families. He says, there are there are 2 kinds of couples. Those who quarrel with each other and those whom you don’t know very well.

So you don’t know very well, so you don’t know that they’re quality. So it’s 2 people that they come together, always there’ll be differences. Mhmm. Now if you see in the shastras, in our scriptures, we have many cases of polygamy. Say, 1 king has many queens, but you will see on every situation that leads to trouble.

In almost every time, you can see in the 6 in the Bhagavatam, Chitraketri. Imagine if somebody poisoning a baby and add to the co queens, co wives. So in the case, something similar happens in the Shruth Maharaj’s case also. Among these queens, Kaushalya is the senior most, but Kaikeya is the youngest and she’s the most attractive. So Dashod becomes more attached to her.

And because Dashod will be more time and attention see, in administrative hierarchies, in in official administrative situations, there’s like official hierarchy. This person with a higher post, this person lower post. But in in familial situation, there’s no official hierarchy like that. There’s more informal hierarchy. So what happened because Rashidwar would pay more attention to Kaikeyi, spend more time with her.

So Kaikeyi’s stock in the royal family started rising, and Kaikeyi became more influential than Kaushali also. Now Kaushali actually felt bad, but she was not resentful. Overall, things were fine, but still there was tension. And Mantra exploited that natural tension between cowboys. Now Mantra had her own axe to grind.

She had been a hunchback, and she had often been, the butt of jokes for many people. But in this case, because she was a favorite maidservant or the favorite queen of the king, she had risen in the royal staff, and she didn’t want to lose her position. And so she spun a whole story of how Ram’s upcoming coronation is actually a scheme to deprive Bharat. And not only that is bad enough, but she made it even more personal. Actually, this whole thing is orchestrated by Kausaliya so that she can become the king’s mother, and then you will have to become her maidservant.

And then she will get back to you for having to serve your her position for so long. And none of this was true, but in this case, what happened was she somehow believed it. And she believed it, and she ended up acting in horrendous ways. It’s one thing was, of course, that Bharat become the king. That’s okay.

Let’s understand why every mother may desire that my son should become great. But to have Ram send him into the forest for 14 years, for no fault of it, there is outrageous. So what happened here? She he was she had weakness. The weakness was that she was attached to the position that she had got, and that attachment was exploited by by Mantra, and she ended up acting in a wicked way.

And it was so serious that eventually not only was Ram exiled, not only was the whole Ayodhya drowned in agony, but eventually Dashruth also died. But still, that did change her. It was only when Bharat came back. Now in her case, she was vulnerable to mantera, but she was attached to Bharat also. And when Bharat chastised her, so what have you done?

Did you say you’re doing all this for me? You think this is going to make me happy? Sometimes some people create an imaginary conception of someone who they want to please. Like, sometimes in some cases, some disciples do something thinking that they’re doing this for the spiritual master. But they do a lot of things, and then they then the spiritual master will say, I didn’t want you to do this.

And if you know all that I’m doing is for Guru Maharaj. Do your spiritual master ask you to do something like this? If not, then don’t imagine things like this. So, anyway, when when Bharat reproach her, severely, he said that you are not my mother. You are the goddess of destruction incarnated in our family to destroy our whole dynasty.

That was the time she was jolted out of her stupor, and then she came to her senses. But by that time, it was too late. Dashwood had already passed away, and Ram had gone to the forest. Now but she truly repented. And the repentance was that she one part of the repentance was that she went with Ram.

She went with Bharat to call Ram back and implore him. Of course, Ram was firm and he didn’t come, but still the point was that although she was vulnerable to wickedness, she also had a connection with goodness. And that’s why she although she became deformed temporarily, but she was also reformed. So within us, if there is weakness, if we all have weaknesses. So if we if our attachment to wickedness becomes stronger than attachment to goodness, then we’ll be deformed.

And if there’s no goodness, then we may deform forever. But if the goodness comes back, then good here we’re referring to goodness not as a quality, but as people with goodness. So this is this is association with wickedness, association with person with people with wickedness, and people with goodness. Now let’s look at another case study. Here we have Ravan, Vibhishan, and Indrajeet.

K? So where will Vibhishan fall? Goodness. Goodness. Yeah.

We can just write. Vibhishan. The pen has become weak. Okay. Vibhishan.

And division. And then this now where will Raul fall over here? Wickedness. Okay. And where would Rajit fall?

Really? Why is it in weakness? It was attached to his Okay. Let me not make it so let me, let me make it more specific, not generic. See, Raul and his demonic associates, all of them.

Where would they fall? Yeah. They so here, we have both. Ravan and wickedness and Ravan and associates. You can write both over here.

Ravan and Indejit or This is Ravan you can write. And you can just below, you can, yeah. Yeah. Access us. This right access us.

We use our access as this. So now here also what happened that now Ravan was not just it was not just an, a moment of weakness when he felt attracted to Sita. It was a whole conspiracy that he planned, and that was not weakness. That was wickedness. So now in this case, when Raman, he started doing all this, there was okay.

There are not just Vibhishan. There are others also. So, of course, came with the picture when he activated. You sit back. Don’t hold on.

It will call the destruction of your whole dynasty. I have another whole, I’m writing a second book on the It’s called Ravana head. It is one article that is Ravana head 10 heads with 0 grades. So 10 heads is what? I shared out of if 10 people gave advice to Ravana, and they all tried to advise from different perspectives.

But even those 10 people could not put one brain in his head even instead, unfortunately. So, anyway, the point was that Ravan did not listen to anyone. Now we say Yes. There are there are some things which are non translatable. If you try to translate this into English, the ghosts of kicks don’t learn by words.

It doesn’t make any sense. So, he he would not learn simply by some instruction, but when he saw demonstration of the power of Ravan of Hanuman, sorry. Hanuman alone penetrated on Lanka and broke free from his guards and then burnt half of Lanka without any weapon at all, just the tail. So it was so it’s like Hanuman’s tail, p a l e. Hanuman’s tail is centered on Hanuman’s tail.

T a I l tail. So it is Hanuman’s tail with the chipmunk. Then after that, Vibhishan strongly spot him. He said, if one monkey can do so much, what do you think around this whole army will do? Says return, Sita.

You have so many queens. Just give up your desire for her. So, actually, initially, when Vishal spoke this, Ravan became a circumspect. And Ravan, he says suspended the assembly. He said we’ll talk tomorrow morning.

But the next morning, when the division went first privately talk to him. So what had happened all night, Ravan had been craving for Sita, and an unseated desire had blinded him again. And although Ravan seemed a little cautious the previous night, the next morning, he uses back to his insolvent self. And then, Bhishan spoke to him, but Ravan didn’t listen. And then in the assembly, Bhishan spoke again.

And at that time, when Bhishan spoke that we will quote destruction if we antagonize Ram if we keep Sita. So at that time, various generals, they spoke. Prastha spoke, he said. Why are we afraid of a mere monkey? It’s not that he is strong.

It’s just that he caught us by surprise. If they come back again, it is they who will be in for surprise. We are so poor. Other monkeys Parashar said, actually, we should not even wait for them to come here. Let’s all send an army behind and destroy them where they are itself.

And Indrajit said, why do you need to send an army? I alone can destroy them. Just order me right now. And all of them started bragging. And in that, the Vibhishan’s voice was drowned out.

So what happened is, generally, if somebody is in wickedness, then it’s very difficult to reform them. It’s possible but it’s extremely difficult. And especially if somebody has wickedness and they are surrounded by people who are wicked who have wickedness, then reformation is almost impossible. So this is a we could say here there is not a happy ending, but the happy ending is that Kaikeyi was reformed and Kaikeyi and Ram and, Sitao all reunited after the exile was over. But here, there’s only destruction.

So this is again a different subject, which is brief mention of this that in general, we say we should always forgive. Forgiveness is a spiritual virtue. But then our scriptures have wars and war means people are killed. So why is there a forgiveness in these situations? Forgiveness is to be given to weakness, not to wickedness.

Giving forgiveness to wickedness is foolishness. It’s like somebody is armed terrorist and the person just going killing around people indiscriminately, and then the police finally call another person. The anti terrorist squad, and they will know, oh, please forgive me. Please forgive me. I’m sorry.

And then this person lowers the gun that goes in pounds, don’t pick another gun, shoot you. There are people who are wicked, and they have to be dealt with strongly. So forgiveness is important, but duty fullness is also important. Duty fullness means we all have to do our duty, and we have to create facility that which people do their duties. And wicked people will not do any let anybody do their duties, And sometimes punishment is required strongly.

So the second case. The third case is of sugriva. So sugriva will come in the category of weakness and yeah. There. And you can put Tara in goodness.

So which incident are we talking about here? Yeah. But which incident? Can you guess? We have no?

Not death of Bali. Something after that. Yes. Lakshman comes. Basically, we could what happens is that Ram and Subria form a deal, and he will help Mali to Ram or Subhriya to get back his wife in kingdom, and then Subhriya will help Ram to find Sita.

So but at that time, after Subhriya becomes the king, suddenly the chaturbans starts. And normally, we might think, you know, somebody is lost or somebody is being abducted. Just because of rains, you won’t stop the search. But in this case, what had happened, Wali was the son of Indra. And because Wali had been killed, so Indra was angry.

And Indra showered down unseasonally heavy rains, so nobody could move at that time. And that’s why they decided to suspend the search for 4 months. And during those 4 months, Sugri, who had been living in Royal Comfort, is a warrior, but he had been living in Comfort for a long time. And then when he had he had to flee, he had to live in Spartan austerity. It’s extremely difficult.

And then suddenly he came back, and now he had all this royal luxury with him. So he lost himself in revelry. He lost himself in drinking and doing all kinds of things. And then the 4 months got over, the rain stopped, and still there’s no sign of Subhri coming. Then Ram said Lakshman.

And even before Lakshman went, Hanuman noticed what was happening. Hanuman noticed that Subhri was got lost over there. Now what happens in traditional societies, hierarchies are very important. So Hanuman couldn’t directly instruct Subhri. Although, Hanuman is much more powerful than Subhri, till now, he has not manifested his power.

It’s only when Jambavan speaks, then his power gets manifested. And even when his power manifests, still Hanuman identifies himself. He says, I am a servant of Sugriyub who is serving around like that. So he couldn’t directly instruct, but Hanuman talked with Dara. And then Dara came and spoke to Sugriyav.

He said, you know, you had promised this to Ram, and Hanuman also came and then said yes. Yes. Yes. And then immediately he realized and he summoned he sent summons to get monkeys from various parts of the world to come. But after issuing those summons, what happened?

Again, he relaxed. Again, he lost himself in the same sensuality. And then Lakshman came over there. Lakshman heard all these sounds of, reveling going on, and he became furious. He charged into the place where Sugri was there, and he said, ingratitude is the worst of sins.

You know, after I received a great favor from your friend, from one whom who has considered you a friend, now you’re betraying him. You deserve to be punished. Seeing Rakshma’s anger, Sugri was stunned. He didn’t know what to speak. So at that time, Tara intervened.

And Tara said that Lakshman was angry, but Kshatriyas at that time they were cultured. And generally, no matter how angry Kshatriya might be, if a woman would come, they’ll calm themselves down. So he is angry. He tried to control himself. And Tara said, oh, Lakshman, don’t be angry with Sugri.

He said that temptations she said the temptations are so strong that even great failures sometimes fall into temptation. And Sugriva is just a monkey, and he’s been deprived of pleasure for so long. Still, he has not forgotten his duty. He’s already arranged for monkeys. And then Sugriva, he spoke, and then Lakshmi was specified.

So in this case, what happened was there was weakness. Fortunately, there was no wickedness around. The dancing girls and whoever were there were there, they were not out to particularly exploit exploit, Sugri. They’re just doing their job. And there was weakness and a situation of temptation, so there was some deep some fall.

But because there was associate because there was goodness, and he was he was open enough to listen to goodness, so there was reformation. So there was temporary deviation, there was reformation. So in this way, these three cases, we can analyze to understand how are the character of a people can change or can be deformed or can be reformed. Now for all of us, we have weaknesses, and we can’t just get rid of those weaknesses. What we can do is three things.

1st is, we try to create a distance from wickedness. Now wickedness is not just people with some horns coming out of their head. There are all kinds of people. Jaydutt Manath writes article in back to godhead is called who is a demon? And then he says, demons are not just mythical creatures with horns around them.

It is no. Your local politician might be deep. Your grocer might be deep. Your neighbor might be deep. You might be deep.

So it’s a mentality. It’s not a it’s not a form. So the point here is that we all have weakness within us, and there are also people around us who have wickedness. So when there is wickedness, then what happens? Now it’s not that again, this is we’ll put it this way then.

It is some people have wickedness and some people are wicked. That’s also difference. That means some people have wickedness means with respect to one thing, they really are manipulative. They will speak with this over there, speak that over there, and they’ll do this and do that. Some people love to gossip.

It’s like they that’s their if you don’t get, then you get gossip. Just speak something. See, what happens is now what is gossip? Talking about others. You know when gossip begins?

Gossip begins when you hear something you like about someone you don’t like. What? When you hear you like about so you don’t like. Oh, this person like this? I I everybody this person portrays such a good person, but this is not I’ll tell everyone now.

So there are some people, they may not be they may not be they may not be wicked, but they have wickedness about something. With respect to this, they will speak this over here, they speak this over there. And I’m traveling across the world, I see so many places. Like, it can be in a family with the husband and wife. It can be between, 2 devotees in the same community.

So many misunderstandings come up because usually, those 2 people can get along. There’s some third person who comes in from somewhere and just gets those 2 people against each other. So if that is happening, then wickedness if it is there now we don’t have to label people as wicked, but if somebody is acting in a way that is that is wicked for us, then we need to keep a distance from them. Keep a distance. Basically, there are some people who somehow bring out the worst within us.

Sometimes they intend to and sometimes they don’t intend to, but they bring out the worst within us. Then keep a distance from them. Keep a distance from them. So that is first, avoid wickedness. 2nd is strengthen your ties with goodness.

Right? That whatever good association we have, you strengthen those ties. What does strengthening the tie means? It basically means not just that, say, when 2 day bodies come together, how tightly they hug each other. That’s not strong association.

Like, that could be one part of it, but that’s not the essence. The essence of strong association or strong association is strong moral devotees is that that, even if somebody speaks strongly to us, that won’t break the relationship. Basically, what is happening, we are here. Our mind is here, and people are here. So we look at everyone through the filter of our mind.

If anybody speaks nicely to us, then we start then I mean, immediately our mind says, what does this person want? Why are they speaking so nicely? So we see everything through the filter of the mind. But for people who are very close to us, what happens is we see them separate from the mind. That is the mind is saying, this person has treated me so horribly.

This person is saying, actually, no. That person was under big pressure, and that’s why they did. There’s nothing personal against you. Oh, okay. Now I will believe my mind, but if I trust someone, then what happens?

If I trust someone close association means we trust the person as much as our mind, if not more than our mind. At least we hear an alternative. That’s all cartoon. 2 people are quarreling, and one person is trying to speak something. He says, whatever you say, I disagree with you.

It’s like, I just don’t want to hear you at all. That’s that’s unfortunate. So strong association means we try to create bonds. Strong bonds so that even if we do something wrong now we won’t we won’t wanna cover it up, we won’t wanna deny it, and we won’t hesitate to speak it. So we need that strong bond with goodness.

Sometimes we cannot avoid wickedness in the world. That’s just the way the world is. We have to work with people and some people are exploited. I mean, you just have to it might be a family member. It might be a relative.

It might be colleague. We can’t avoid that. But we can strengthen our bonds with goodness, and this can make a big difference when we start getting on the wrong track. If there’s someone who’s watching us and someone we tell them, then they will tell us how to protect ourselves. And third thing, this would come in this anal analytical framework.

So there is weakness, wickedness, goodness, and beyond that is god. So it’s connection with god, connection with the lord. So with goodness, yes, we are pulled up, but, ultimately, we can’t depend only on association for our protection. We also want purification. So by the connection with Krishna, so we could put God above this and then we could I don’t give you a space.

So what happens is if somebody connects with God, and from wherever they are, we can rise even from weak wickedness to goodness. We can rise from weakness to goodness. Now can you think of somebody who, by chanting the names of god, rose from wickedness to goodness? Somebody who took joy in hurting others. That is wicked half killing animals.

No. That was that was Bughari. Bughari and he to join that, but then he gave it up. So the connection with god can actually raise us even from wickedness, and definitely it can raise us from weakness. But often that takes time.

That transformation inner transformation takes a lot of time. So we need to we need outer protection also. And if we have this outer protection, then each one of us from wherever we are, we all have a vulnerabilities, but we don’t have to become overcome. We can keep stay protected and gradually get purified. So I’ll summarize what I spoke today.

So I spoke on this theme of how character is reformed or deformed. I introduced 3 main concepts. Weakness is we we mostly talk about good and bad, but within so goodness is there, but in bad, I introduced 2 categories, weakness and wickedness. Weakness is where we have our conscious and intelligence are 2 emotional and rational protectors, but sometimes they are overcome overcome by the force of the situation. But afterwards we feel bad and we come back on track.

But wickedness is where the consciousness is numb and down and the intelligences or worded so that intelligence indulges and covers up. So and and now most of us have some weakness, and how weakness can be pulled down to wickedness or can rise to goodness, we discussed through through three case studies. So in the case of Kaikai, was she was manipulated by Mantra and that she acted wickedly, sending her stepson who was like her son, who respected her like her own son, sending him away to the forest for no fault at all. She caused the death of her husband. Fortunately, because there was goodness and she was more attached to that goodness, That is Bharat.

Prashila came to her senses, and she regretted. She repented. And the damage was there, but it was minimized. In the case of, Robin, he himself was wicked, and he was surrounded by people who were wicked. So although Vibhishan’s goodness was there, the bridge was, like, too far to go from goodness to wickedness, and he couldn’t be saved.

So he listened more to his own wicked desires and to the counsel of the wicked people around him rather than the goodness around him. So here, he had to meet a bad end. So forgiveness, the the scriptures don’t talk about violence and war because forgiveness can be given to weakness, but not to wickedness. And then we talk about last case, which is which is could say more hope giving for all of us that we all get deviated at times. Like Subhreeva got deviated after getting luxury, after having a after being in the forest for a long time in deprivation.

But in his case, although there was weakness within him and he succumbed, but there was no wickedness. Nobody was there to exploit him specifically, and there was goodness. There was Tara. There was Hanuman. There was Lakshman, and he soon came back on the right track.

So there was very little damage because within all of the 4 months, he was delayed, but the 4 months were anyway, the rain delay was there. So there’s although there was deviation, but there’s very little damage over there. In this case, there was lot of damage. In this case, there was a irreversible damage. So how what can we do to reform our character and ensure it doesn’t get deformed?

Talking about 3 things. 1 was stay away from wickedness. We don’t ever label people as wicked, but sometimes they have wicked influence on us. They bring out our worst. So stay away from the wicked.

The other was second was? Yeah. Connect strongly with goodness. Wish with some people in goodness, our bond should be stronger than when are born with our mind or at least equal to so that we don’t see them through our mind. We see our mind through them.

We evaluate our mind through them. The third is connection with god. So we can’t depend only on association for protection. We need purification internally also. And the connection will go on and raise people even from wickedness to goodness and certainly from weakness to goodness.

So all of us can stay protected and become purified. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So any questions or comments? Yes, people wickedness actually manifest in life through goodness.

That is, you have some good qualities like helping others or something and wrong kind of people who come into your life and start exploiting you because of your goodness. And then you are further dragged away from goodness because now you think that since I’ve helped that person, he gets exploited. Now you don’t wanna help anyone else. How do not fall into that trap? Good question.

The question is that when we have goodness, then sometimes people with wickedness exploit us, and then we get burned by that. And then we we don’t want to even to help others. We we give up our goodness so that we can have our protection. Yes. That is also illustrated in some ways in the Ramayana.

Compassion has to be balanced with caution, and not balancing with caution is what is demonstrated through the example of Sita Venkirna. It’s not exactly compassion. It’s a virtue. There’s a sage or a person who looked like a sage, and Sita wanted to serve. But Lakshman had told her, don’t go out.

Now in this case, we can’t really blame Sita because it is a service attitude. At the same time, we get there with good people, and we can’t be naive in the world. So, basically, there are, I think everybody in the industry can wipe this off. Okay. Oh, okay.

Interesting. You can send it to me also then after. It’s a good idea. So if we consider in our dealing with people, Mhmm. The brave body, the way we relate with them can go like a pendulum.

So one is one extreme of this pendulum is naivety, and the other is cynicism. That means naive somebody is naive, they think everybody is good. And if you are naive, we will be crushed and crushed. There are people who are exploitative and people exploit us. So we will all experience this kind of betrayal or exploitation or whatever.

So we can’t live in the world while being naive. See, we should be nice with people but not naive. Nice means we are kind, courteous, polite, but it’s not that we can indiscriminately trust everyone. So naivety is bad. And quite often from naivety, both we go towards cynicism.

Cynicism means every every from everybody is good to everybody is bad. There’s a prominent European philosopher who’s a atheist, and he was asked, do you believe in hell? No. Obviously, the expertise was no. Because he’s a atheist.

He said, yeah. I believe in hell. Oh, really? What is your conception of hell? So hell means other people.

You can imagine what kind of misogyny is the not, misanthropy is there. Misogyny is hatred of women. Misanthropies hatred of humanity itself. So people can get burned at and go to their cynicism. Now in between these 2, in between naivety and cynicism is the courage to trust.

As you’re trusting someone, it doesn’t have to be act of naivety. And being cynical is not necessarily a sign of cleverness. It’s it’s a courageous act to trust them, but that courage has to be exercised cautiously. Courage cannot be foolhardy. A soldier cannot just attach him to an enemy camp thinking I’ll defeat the whole hour.

But be courage, but cautious. So basically, we will all when we do something good for someone and it it just backfires on us, we all will naturally go from naivety towards cynicism, but we can’t steer cynicism. It’s we will think I’m protecting my heart, but, but it is actually we are freezing our heart. It’s not protecting. It will become cold hearted.

It will become lonely. And we don’t want the virtues within us to go away. So the virtue that we exercised properly. So Sita, she, in some ways, was naive over there, and the demon came and exploited it. So it’s not that she’s to be blamed.

It is that she’s a victim, but still, it’s a part that it was a mistake on her part for her to do that. Of course, now here, we’re analyzing all these characters from a ethical perspective to learn something. So a tangible perspective, it’s all the. And then you don’t consider that when somebody I mean, it’s all character did something wrong. It’s for our learning purposes.

So when this has happened, we need to just become more cautious. So virtue, is, one part of virtue is also caution. So if we just if, say, somebody just give charity, anybody ask for money, they give charity. Well, that’s not always a virtue. If somebody is a drug addict and you give them charity, that’s the worst.

I mean, if especially if you give them money and they take drugs, they’re actually harming them. So we have to be so giving charity is good but if it is having a bad result then it is not good. That doesn’t mean we stop giving charity but we have to we have to learn to become cautious. These are emptiness. So this is in between is the courage to trust.

So that’s how we have to work. Did I answer your question? Thank you. Yes. Yes.

I was just wondering whether that person has a bad experience and when they go to cynicism, what do you tell them to make them trust again to go back to the middle? Okay. Good question. When a naive person has a bad experience and they go to cynicism, what can we tell them so that they can trust? Basically, when somebody is wounded, sometimes we can just be a part of the healing process.

And it’s, say, if somebody’s hand get fractured. So emotional wounds can be better understood with if we compare them with physical wounds. If somebody’s hand is fractured, then there is a during recovery, there is a phase when you just have to keep the hand at rest. Talk to your cast and just keep it at rest. So, yes, if somebody has been hurt, they may have to go through a phase of withdrawal, which I don’t want it to do anything to with anyone.

Give give my speech. That’s okay. But afterward, another part is that you have to start exercising. Although it’s very painful, a part of a part of the recovery is that you have to start exercising, moving the hand. So similarly, it’s it’s understandable that the person may be drawn to a shell for some time, but afterward they have to come out.

And usually at that time, we can try to help them remember that many times when people were good to learn. The mind often obsesses so much on the bad that it blinds us to the good. Yes. People have been bad to us, but people have to go to us also. So we need to expand their perspective.

We can’t deny that people have been bad to them. But then, see, we may have to live with pain, but we don’t have to live in pain. We will live in pain when we focus only on the pain and our consciousness gets reduced to that. But we will live with pain. I can’t deny that it happened, but that wound is there.

There’s only other good thing in my life. So if you know them well enough, then try to gently help them think about the times that people were good to them. Not everybody is untrustworthy. So gradually, as that sort of that sort of memory comes in, then they will open up. So reminding them first, helping them heal and seeing what phase they are in.

If they need space, give them space for some time. But then not forever. Then guide you to have them come out, remind them of the good in people or the good that people have done for them. And then maybe based on your experience, your intelligence, whatever, we all we can just discuss we can just discuss with them and help them understand how they can be cautious while trusting in future. Like, in no area in life do we have guarantee of safety or success safety or success.

Even when we’re driving a car and the cars make me fail, We might get a heart attack while driving the car. Maybe the next person coming around might be drunk. So risk is there, everywhere in the world. You know, you’re the safest place in the world. Okay.

Great. Yeah. That’s a that’s a good answer. It’s a bit extreme. But in many ways, a prison is the safest person, safest place.

Especially, they’re not like violent gangs and you know part of 1 gang and another gang attacking you. You could be safe in prison. And do we want do we want that kind of safety to the complete loss of freedom? No. So life has a trade off.

We have to make a trade off of some of our safety so that we can have some facilities, some freedom. So if somebody says, I will I will I want to keep my heart safe. So well, that’s like you’re living in an emotional prison, and nobody has locked you. You have locked yourself in over there. And such people will become very lonely, and that is also a pain.

We are meant to connect with people. Yes. So ultimately, we are meant to connect with Krishna. We don’t connect with Krishna immediately. We are meant to connect with people.

So it’s it’s a gradual process, but generally, we can help them in that healing journey. K. Thank you. Good question. Yes.

Can you hear me, Swati? We know one person is a kid. He has, armed a lot of people. Lord Ram had Liberty 2 would kill Ramon, but we do not have and we are bounded by law. So what is our duty in that case?

So damage, you know, to so fast these will can be minimized. If somebody’s killed and they have hurt many people. Now Ram Ram could kill, but we can’t. We have to follow the law. It is not just Ram was god, Ram was also Kshatriya.

Kshatriya have to administer the law. So all of us have to consider, our context primarily. That means, see, Vishwamitra, when he was troubled by these demons, because he’s a Brahmina, he did not he go cursed and killed them, but he asked Ram to he asked Prashant to send Ram. So, generally, when something is wrong in our life or in around us, it depends on how strongly we are affected by it and how strongly we feel about it. If you wanna make that a cause, that’s what I feel strongly about it then, and we may have to resort to the appropriate legal means to bring that person to justice.

And that might be a long process, but in some cases, that’s what is required. And that’s what is required, and that’s what we feel if it a lot depends here on individual. Some people may feel that it’s it’s a battle I don’t want to get into. I just let me go on with my life. It’s also okay because we can’t change everything in the world.

There are many bad things in the world and as devotees, what we are trying to do is, we are changing the world by not just, like, connecting people, but by changing the forces that make people do wrong. Most of the crimes in the world happen because of lust, anger, and greed. Lust is the cause of more sexual violence. Greed is the cause of most corruption and financial irregularities, and violence is the anger is the cause of most violence. So we are trying to cleanse ourselves of these things.

And if we wanna focus our energy on that and we want to help others do that, then we just focus on those who are trying to change that and not bother about this. But it’s it depends again on context. If you look at life, he had the temple in Jhansi, the league of devotees. And the same people some people turned against him and there’s a click, and he just said, it’s not worth fighting. Just left.

He could have he could have he had legal expertise. He had experience in business. He could have made a court case and he could have protected that land, but he decided that this is the small city. The people here also not that serious. It’s not worth the fight.

But later on, when the Juru temple was very threatened, in the temple of Mount Temple, the land was there. At that time, Brahma fought. He fought fiercely and he said, you know, I will not this mister m will have if he has to steal Krishna’s temple land, he will have to do it over my dead body. He’s going to that point, and he fought anyone because he felt Mumbai is very important place and now he had a vibrant movement in the west and he wanted a good place in the financial headquarters of India, and therefore, he felt it was worth fighting. So we may have to decide whether it’s worth fighting for us, and then based on that, we do.

K? Thank you. Great. Yes. If they come, they’ll be wonderful.

I see that they come and somehow, you know, the goodness can be transformed. That’s true. See, we all it’s one thing to be tested, but it’s quite another thing to be manipulated. Sometimes people are wicked people, they are so they are so cunning that you don’t even realize you are being outwitted, that you are being manipulated. Some people are just so expert at that.

It’s like they they wrong others, and then they portray that they are the wrong person. It’s amazing how they do that. Some people just expert at that. So, you know, we it can it can lead to a lot of problems. Of course, we don’t want to reject everyone from even from the path of Bhakti.

But again, we can’t be naive. If we everybody’s welcome, but what is the effect of certain people on us, we have to see. But it’s it’s good to see such optimism in the potency of devotion. Thank you. Yes.

Any other questions? Yes. Probably it is, it’s very easy to see or to assume that I’m not wicked, and I’m good. And and to feel that I am being troubled by the wicked people. It’s it’s easy to see that I’m I’m good.

I’m not wicked, and I’m troubled by wicked people. But the fact may be that I have some wickedness, which I’m I myself do not accept it or do not know of it because I’m so used to being wicked. And and the people whom I see as wicked, they’re not really wicked. It’s just my assumption, my imagination, or my misunderstanding. So so it’s very common to see that like, even the wicked person thinks that I am good, and I am being, I’m being troubled by the wicket.

And so how do we how do we see our own wickedness when we are convinced that we are good? Sometimes we may have wickedness, but we think others are wicked. So how do we see our wickedness? It’s it’s difficult. You could say the example of Durovan.

Durovan during the then Krishna had come with the peace proposition. Durovan said that even after great introspection, I don’t see anything along the time. And he said, I assumed we acted according to my nature. So if anyone is to be blamed, blame the creator who gave me my nature. That’s a great excuse.

I see I see our past can explain our emotions, but our past doesn’t excuse our actions. Sometimes some people may just be very suspicious, very short-tempered, and they may have had such they may have that that kind of upbringing, that kind of experiences. So how we feel, that can be explained by our past. We can’t really that much control our feelings, but we all have the capacity to control our actions. So it’s our past can’t excuse our actions.

So in this particular case, it’s like Durvya Dhan doesn’t even think that I’m doing anything wrong. In that situation, I think 2, 3 things are required. Sometimes we just have to go through the school of hard knocks. That means, you know, we really are knocked around and we bear the consequences and then we realize, hey. It is I won’t is I won’t wrong?

And another part of it is also that, okay, even if it is true that, that I am being exploited by wicked people. This is this is this is difficult to apply, but even if there’s conflicts, if this can be applied, it’s a very powerful way to resolve conflicts. Let’s say 2 people have an argument, heated argument or whatever. Then first thing is both of them separate. They calm themselves down, and then think seriously what did I do to cause this conflict.

It might be that what I did to the 1% and the other percent and 99%, but but admit that I shouldn’t have done this. Let’s start with that one. What did I do? See, basically, when something bad is happening with us, there are 2 possibilities. Either I am bad or the rest of the world is bad.

Now saying that the rest of the world is bad may be good for my ego, but actually it’s disempowering because are you going to change the rest of the world? Well, good luck with that. It’s it’s good in a sense if there’s something wrong with me. It’s It’s not that, I am just saying that, oh, it’s all because of me. But if there’s something wrong with me, then there’s some chance that I can fix it.

If I’m missing nothing wrong with me, the world everything is wrong with the world. Well, then that’s that’s that’s not a very pleasant thing. Usually, it’s not true, but believing that is very disempowering. It’s like suppose you go to a doctor. You’re sick.

And the doctor says, the kind of symptoms you have, I’ve never heard of it. Well, that’s not a very pleasant thing to hear. My ego would think, what a unique disease. But that means the doctor has not heard, the doctor can’t cure, isn’t it? So for us, we only have control over ourselves, and that also we have limited control.

But at least we have some control over ourselves. With other people, we have very, very little control. So it’s good to try to begin with ourselves. K? K.

I feel maybe this person is exploiting me, this person is abusing me, but am I doing something? Am I also doing something wrong? This is not to say that others are not doing something wrong because that is very difficult for us to accept. But am I doing something wrong? That is if you start with that okay.

Then I’m doing this. Let me send this right. So it will be very difficult for us to accept that there is wickedness within us. But we can say at least weakness is there, and let me try to reform that. And if the capacity for introspection also grows by exercise, If today I can admit, like, maybe 1 person fall within myself, that tomorrow, the ego makes us feel that if I if I admit a fault, I’m going to die.

It’s like one friend I recently had a he’s a devoted friend of mine. He is he’s a robot. He is very friendly. He said that, you know, some people think that apology will kill them. They just can’t apologize.

They’ll hem and haw and everything. They said this. One simple apology is what the other person wants, but they just can’t give it. But if we admit one fault, one person fault that we admit, then we realize, actually, this apology didn’t kill me. So no.

It might seem like joking, but it’s not. For some people, death is preferable to an apology. They just can’t do it. But if you understand that apologies don’t kill, then gradually, they okay. I can admit 1% fault.

Maybe next time I can admit 2% fault. So gradually that happens. So we have to begin very gently. And in in our transformation is not, is generally not very dramatic, not very rapid. Sometimes it may be, but generally, it’s gradual.

So those are some tips. That makes sense? Okay. Any other last question? Same question or similar question?

No. I think I had a question that It’s kind of how how to deal with that. So if I understand right, is the question there. How do we deal with our own oscillation between goodness, weakness, and wickedness? Yeah.

There are okay. Let’s use general word wise. The wise can manifest sometimes as weakness and sometimes as wickedness. So we are the wise within us often has urges or rather because if if you use the word urges, our urges have surges. So we might have a certain level of anger, but sometimes just zooms out, shoots out.

Some it’s similar with lust or greed or attachment or anything like that. Now some when those they shoot up, we might just be powerless. So even if we can’t resist the urges, we can persist between the urges. Okay. That time that thing happened, I couldn’t do anything.

Okay. And it may happen again. But in between, what am I doing? In between, I just give up. I can never change it.

And in between, I just keep beating myself up. Why did I do that? Or in between, I try to connect myself with goodness. So sometimes we wickedness may over progress and if we can if in between we are connecting with goodness, we are strengthening ourselves. And gradually, what will happen is when we when we even wickedness comes upon, we’ll be strong enough to resist it.

So at least persist between the urges. I write on the Gita everyday on githadaily.com. So one article I wrote was that we may fall down, but we don’t have to fall away. Fall down means when the urges have surges. We used to do something wrong, But fall away, you just give up the practice of Bhakti.

I can’t do this. So we may fall down, but we don’t have to fall away. That’s the first thing, purses between the urges. Second thing is try keep a distance from provocations. So what sometimes something external causes the self issue, and if you know something, just keep a distance from it as it is possible.

And 3rd is a little tricky to understand, but if you understand it, it’s a very transformative insight. It’s that even the urge comes, it’s a growing growing growing growing and we feel it’s just going to grow forever. And if I resist it, it’s a losing battle. I may resist now, but it’s going to go further. It’s going to grow further.

It’s going to grow further. How long can I resist it? And then we give up. But this urge is not going to grow forever. It will grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.

It will attain a peak, and then it will go down. So it is something like, you know, arm wrestling. It’s like a our battle with our urges is like a arm wrestling match. We are trying to hold, we are just trying to push us down. But the critical thing is here it’s like a timed arm wrestling match.

That means, say it’s a 3 minute round and in 3 minutes we do get that hand out. Now that the upper hand will be so strong, we just got our hand down down down. It’s almost touching. So much pain, but the minutes are ticking. At 3 minutes, we just hold on hold on.

Then if we just survive that present round, the next time when we begin, it will not be from here. It will be from neutral ground. So if you understand this urge is not going to go on infinitely, then it becomes easier to resist that. It requires strength. It requires, determination, but it is if you think this is better forever yeah.

It the urge may come again also. The surge may also come again, but next time it won’t I won’t be here. I’ll be here. The urge has to get me down from here to here. So if you understand, it’s like a timed arm wrestling match.

So it’s not a we always have to battle with temptation at one level, but that intense temptation or intense whys that we have to battle with, that’s not 24 hours a day. So if you understand that, that also gives us some impetus to resist. And, ultimately, of course, we have to find out something that connects us with Krishna strongly. That means that there are see, there are some things which we like to do and something that are good for us. If these 2 were identical, life would be wonderful.

Of course, but it’s not necessary that the 2 are entirely disjointed. If you can find out somewhere these 2 intersect and hold on to that, make that as easily accessible as possible. So if you like music and you have some girdos ready with you, if you like deity worship, then have some attractive Darshan picture of Krishna with you, and then look at it. Pray to it. Pray to that picture.

Pray to Krishna through that picture. So whatever it is that we is good for us and what is also what we like. Because at that time, if something is good but we don’t like it, it’ll be very difficult for us to redirect our thoughts there. But in that, we can redirect our thoughts. So then gradually, by that, we can resist.

So we can so persist between the urges, then protect yourself from provocations, then know that the pattern doesn’t go on for that the urge also doesn’t last forever. It’s like a timed arm wrestling match. And to gain strength during that, find out something which is good for you, which is like some like, something is a circle of bhakti and circle of what you like to do. Just find something within that. Then it’s possible to resist it.

Okay? So now the last question. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There is the hand that you did. Yeah, please. If someone we know very well is overcome by wickedness, how can we help them to come to goodness? First thing is that if we are drowning, we can’t save anyone else.

So if somebody has succumb to wickedness, if we go there to help him, instead of we lifting them out, they will pull us down. So we have to be cautious. Compassion or concern for others shouldn’t blind us to realities. See, it is that I was giving a seminar to to mental health care providers who who take care especially of people who are addicted. And I was talking about this principle, but then one of them spoke it very articulately.

He said that that actually in such fields where somebody is addicting, they’re trying to recover and they have relapses, he said that if the caregiver are not to get exhausted, that is what is called as compassion fatigue. Just you see so much suffering and then you just don’t have so much, you know, capacity left to empathize. So there, the point is this, they say don’t work harder than your client. Don’t work harder than your client means what? This addiction carrier provider that they want to okay.

You know, when this happens, do this. If it does happen, do this. Come and talk with them. But if the addict doesn’t want to change, then you don’t get worked up by it. It’s sad to see somebody going down, but you can’t afford to go down with it.

So that’s the first principle. If somebody has become wicked, then you we have to make sure that we don’t go down with them. 2nd is that there has to be some desire to change within them. If there is no desire to change at all, then not that we abandon them, but we may have to suspend our efforts for the time being. Keep the door open.

They want to change, we are there to help them. But don’t, we can’t force anyone to change. The standard example for this is sometimes say a car is not starting and then a group of people come around and they start pushing the car. The person from inside is trying to steer and move the car, move the outside pushing as to when the car starts. But suppose people from outside are pushing and the person inside has gone to sleep, then the people are, why should I push?

Or worse still, the person inside is pressing the brake, and the people from outside are pushing. It’s vain effort. So we can help the unable, not the unwilling. We can help the unable, not the unwilling. So there has to be some desire within them for help.

We can always be there as a friend, but we don’t want to be dragged down. And, having said that so these are 2 cautionary notes that we shouldn’t be dragged down. Secondly, we should, that they should have some desire to help. But broadly, how do we help them? See, any transformation, there’s only 3 ways in which one person can help another person.

Basically, you could put it as engagement, sorry, enlightenment, engagement and encouragement. Enlightenment means that show them, help them see the future if they continue on their path or the future if they can achieve their path. So help them see, sometimes you tell them this is bad, don’t do this. That doesn’t help. That sounds like moralizing.

Here enlightenment means help them to see the consequences of their actions. It’s very important that we don’t just give rules. This is bad. Don’t do it. You explain why it is bad.

So enlightenment means not that I am instructing you, but this is what I have learned. So show the consequences. That’s one thing. Then second is engagement. Engagement means we help them to have a path to change.

Okay. I mean, say somebody is falling falling forgetness because they have that kind of friend circle. Then maybe, you know, we try to invite them to our friend circle. Maybe if they are, in some extracurricular activity, then some place and sports, and that’s where their friend circle is. Then maybe get them into some other sports.

So we have to provide them some engagement as much as we can. And 3rd is encouragement. Whenever anyone tries to change themselves, there are going to be false. They are going to be, relapses. Then we need to encourage them.

Yes. You can change. I was in UK, and one devotee came and told me. After many years, now I have developed pronunciation. Oh, really?

I said, what do you mean? I have developed pronunciation to a renunciation. So sometimes people just give up, but we need encouragement. Yes. You you need to slip and fall, you can rise again.

So encouragement. So we have to see these three things basically that knowledge, facility, and hope. Put another way. Knowledge of the consequence of actions, facility to do the right thing, and the hope that you can choose. So enlightenment, engagement, encouragement.

If you give these three things, it’s definitely possible that we can we can become an instrument for them to come back to goodness from forgiveness. Did I answer the question? Yeah. Thank you. It was very thoughtful question.

So thank you very much.

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Krishna. Hi, Krishna. Thank you for coming today afternoon. And as mentioned, I’ll speak on the assos topic of association, how our association influences us, and how we can choose our association determinately. I’ll talk based on Ramayan.

I’ll talk about 3 characters who faced choices and how their association shaped their choices. So I’ll talk about we’ll compare Kaikai, Sugriyu, and Rawan. So what do we mean basically by association? At one level, it means physically the people around us. But that is not really association.

The essence of association is the transfer of desires. That means when we associate with someone, either they influence us or we influence them or we both influence each other. And what is their influence? In their association, our thoughts, our desires, our feelings, and then our intentions and ultimately our actions get reshaped. And sometimes this reshaping can be for good, sometimes it can be for bad.

So we all understand that the choices we make, they make us. The choices we make, make us. But how do we make those choices? Sometimes we may feel, oh, I just don’t have enough determination. That if I just had enough determination, then I would choose rightly.

It’s true we all could do with more determination, but sometimes determination is also a function of association. So we will talk about how some characters made wrong choices and how some corrected their wrong choices, some didn’t correct their wrong choices. It was all based on it is all based on association. So let’s begin with we’ll go chronologically, and then we’ll look at it. Chronologically in terms of how things happen in the Ramayana.

Most of you know the Ramayana? Mhmm. Okay. I was in one country, and I spoke about, lord Narasimha. And then there this was several years ago.

They said they said, we know Narasimha Rao. Now, of course, we don’t know Narasimha Rao also as a old travelist from India. They didn’t know what Narasimha Dev. They know Narasimha Rao they knew. So okay.

So now in the Ramayana, is one who is? Does anyone know? Darshida’s 3rd wife. Yeah. Darshida’s 3rd wife.

Now she, is his favorite queen. She’s youngest. She’s most beautiful. And, also, she’s not a bad person. When there’s the 3 cowives, does anyone know who are the 3 wives?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So then, now, naturally, there was some tension between them, but they were all overall living cordially. At one particular time, see, for all of us, our character doesn’t really come out in our normal course of action.

Because normal course of action, it’s easy to be good. If somebody is behaving politely with us, we behave politely. But if somebody provokes us, then what do we do? It is when provoking or difficult situations come up, that’s when who we are at a deeper level comes out. At a surface level everybody can be like a gentleman and a lady but that’s provocations actually you could say introduce us to ourselves not necessarily to our entire self.

We can have a bright side and a dark side. But, the dark side that is there within us, which often we conceal, that comes out when we get provoked. So they were living quite happily but at a particular point there was a change. See if you are going on a road, if it’s a straight road how well we drive, okay, this is a straight road you are driving. But then when your turn comes, if it is a sharp turn, then how well you drive, that’s what is tested at that time.

So similarly, turn came in their life and that turn was no grains. No grains in this. No grains. Okay. Thank you.

So when a sharp turn came, that was there was a succession. Dasharat was the king. And then just like in a relay race, 1 person runs a particular distance and then they have a torch. They hand it over to the next person. So like the Dashrath was going to hand over the kingdom to a successor.

And whom did he choose? He chose his oldest son. That was Ram. And now that was in one sense expected, but somehow, Kaikeyi, because she was her favourite, Ram’s Das Dasher’s favourite queen, so it was thought or at least she had some idea that maybe my son will become the king. Sometimes when we get one privilege extra, we start thinking that we are entitled to extra privileges.

So she started thinking that, okay, although Kaushalaya was the senior most queen, but Darshal spent a lot more time with her and she got lot of prestige because of that. So she also started thinking that if I am getting this special position, my son should also get it. And it was not like a very deep rooted feeling within her, but that thought was always there. And within us, we may all have weakness. Weakness means when temptation comes, when provocation comes, at that time, we do something wrong.

So weakness is always there in all of us. But what happens? Wherever there is weakness, nearby lies wickedness. Now, wickedness means see, weakness means people do wrong things not because they are bad people but just because they don’t have the strength, moral strength to resist a bad choice. But wickedness is people who deliberately do bad things and not only they do bad things, they actually get joy in doing bad things.

Say for example, some student is in a college and, say may be there are lot of tension of exams, reason relationship issue and may be whatever things and this student feels weak, tempted. And maybe in that same university, there are some drug peddlers. Now the drug that student has weakness, and the drug peddler peddlers are have wickedness. So they make a business out of that. And then the student might get addicted.

And now the statistics are so alarming that one out of every 4 people in the world is addicted. Addicted either to alcohol, to drugs. Smoking is also serious, but alcoholism, drug addiction is quite serious. So similarly, here, Kaikeyi had weakness, but nearby, there was somebody who was waiting to grab that opportunity and exploit that. Who was that?

Manthara. Manthara. So in a Manthara, she was hunched back, and sometimes she was, targeted with some she was some taunted joke because of that. This is bad, but it is not like unbearable. But when she she was the favourite maid of the favourite queen of the king, so her position became elevated because of that and because of that position nobody could now taunt her and she thought if my queen loses this position then I will also lose this position.

If my queen loses her position then I will lose my position. I have to protect my privileged position at all costs. And Dharas, she poisoned Kaike’s mind. She said this is a whole conspiracy to deprive you of your kingdom to deprive your son of his kingdom. And once Ram becomes the king, Kaushalya, because she has been slighted by Dasharat for to favor you, she will get back at you.

And the way she will get back to you is, she will poison Ram’s mind. And Ram will have Bharat exiled to the forest or Ram may even rig up some charges, frame him and have him executed. Now none of this had any iota of reality to it. But once we want to believe something, it’s like our mind can come up with all kinds of crazy ideas and sometimes see we deceive others and that’s bad but sometimes we deceive ourselves into believing the false to be true So she spun this whole narrative and what happened? Kaike fell for it.

And once Kaike fell for it, slowly, slowly that poison went in and then she one, a few hours before something which she would not even have contemplated, she became firm about it, obstinate that you have to send Ram to the forest for 14 years and you have to make my son the king. And Dashrut, because he had given a word of honor earlier, he was bound. And Dashrut said, I am not able to live without Ram. So, at least, even if you want Bharat to be the king, that’s okay. But don’t send Ram away.

I can’t live without him. And how has Ram offended you? What what fault has he done to deserve this? But Kaikai had been grilled by Mantra. She had told Mantra, I told that if Ram is in the kingdom, Bharat will never accept the kingship.

Even if Bharat accepts, the citizens will not accept. The courtiers will not accept. So you have to send Ram out for a sufficient amount of time till Bharat gives a stable rule. And Kaushal Kaikeyi fell for it and when Ram went to the forest, only Ram went, Sita went. Now Sita was a princess, she was a tender princess, but she had to be a forest bark and she had to go to the forest and she just didn’t listen to anyone.

Vashishta tried to persuade him, Dashrut fell at his at her feet and begged her, please don’t do like this. But no one she listened to. Eventually in separation from Ram, Dasruta died. And the whole of Ayodhya sank into an ocean of lamentation because of that. Finally, when Laksh when Vishwami when Vashishta became like the emergency king because there was this king was dead and none of his sons were there.

Then he summoned Bharat back. Bharat and Chaturburn were not there at that time. And when Bharat came back, Ayodhya had become like a ghost town. And what happened? His father, normally his father would be there to welcome him, his father was not there, he went to his mother’s palace and his mother spun the whole story she said actually there was a big conspiracy to deprive you of your kingdom I have protected your rights And oh Bharat, the kingdom awaits you now.

I said, what do you mean? And then, he told the whole story. Now, Bharat was horrified. There was shock after shock after shock. First, he couldn’t believe that Ram has been exiled.

He couldn’t believe that Ashut has died. He couldn’t believe that his mother has caused all this, and he couldn’t at all believe that his mother thought that he would be happy because of all this. Oh, finally, he saw aghast. He said, you are not my mother. He said, you are the goddess of destruction incarnated into our family to destroy our whole dynasty now when Bharat spoke this see all along see, when we do something bad also, we we justify it to ourselves, some way or the other.

There’s an English word called rationalise. Do you know this word? Rationalise? Rationalise means to somehow to reason in a way that we make the false appear to be true. So rationalize, what is the spelling of rationalize?

R a. R a. R a n a. Yes. L I s e l I s e, s e or zed e depending on whether American or British, but rationalize, you can also spell it as r a t I o n a l l I e s, rational lies.

So when we rationalise, we tell rational lies. We tell lies that seem rational. So till now, Kaheke was telling herself that actually everybody is criticising me, but I am doing this all for Bharat. So she had created an imaginary Bharat who appreciated what she was doing. But when the real Bharat came over there, and then that imaginary Bharat and the real Bharat collided, And boom, the bubble of the imaginary Bharat disappeared.

And then she realized, what have I done? What have I done? How could I have caused the death of my husband? How could I have done all this? And then she came to her senses.

Unfortunately, by that time, the ball had already passed. You know, it had been too late. Although, she herself went with, Bharat to request Ram to come back and accept the kingship, but Ram didn’t. He said, my father has told me to go, I cannot come back now. So but here, at least, Kaike came back to her senses.

So we see what happened over here. She if you see Kaikeyi over here. Say, Mantra was over here. Among all the people around her, she let Mantra influence her the most. Mantra preyed on her weakness.

She was she had some tension. Okay. I m in a superior position. She had some insecurity, but maybe Kaushka Kaushka level take my position. So that that tension that was there, she exploited that.

And then what happened? Because of that, she didn’t hear anyone else. But at least when Bharat came back, she heard Bharat. Because she was very deeply invested in Bharat. She thought I am doing all this for Bharat.

So then when it was Bharat who brought her back to the senses, but by that time, it had become too late. So it was bad association that that misled her and good association at least helped her come back to her senses. She understood that I had done something wrong. But, of course, she couldn’t correct it because it was already too late. So here, as I said, I started by talking about how our choices are affected.

Our choices are done not just by our willpower or lack of willpower. All of us have weakness around us, within us rather. Some of us may get too angry, some of us might be too greedy, some of us might be too negative, whatever. Now we nobody is free from weakness. But around us, if there is anybody with wickedness and we don’t want to label people that you are a weaker person, not on their face like that.

But anybody who plays with our weakness, who manipulates us based on our weakness, then we have to guard ourselves from them. If we let ourselves be affected by them, then we can be misled. Things that we would normally not do, we will end up doing those things. Say, we all might have a desire. You know.

I want to no. We all want to grow. We want to grow socially in our relationships. We want to grow financially in our economic status. We want to grow in various ways.

But if somebody we all have that insecurity. Am I growing properly or not? But if somebody exploit that insecurity, and they make us greedy, and then they make us do something corrupt, something unethical, and then normally we would not do that. But somebody who makes who plays with our own fears and manipulate those fears can make us do things which we would normally not do. And to some extent, in today’s world, the advertisement industry is like that.

The advertisement industry, what does it do? It plays with our insecurities. It makes us feel if you don’t buy this product, oh, you’re not good enough. So in the past, advertisements were maybe 100 years ago, advertisements were about how good this product is, but today, most advertisements are about how good this product will make you feel. That means, if you don’t have this product, you’ll feel bad.

You get this product, you’ll feel good. So they play with their insecurities. So this is an example of weakness being misled by wickedness or being aggravated with goodness. Now, let’s go to the last example and then come back to the middle example. The last example is Rawan.

Now, Rawan himself, he was he didn’t just have weakness, he had wickedness. Now, he would deliberately it was not just like a moment of lust for him where he did something wrong. When he abducted Sita, it was a well planned conspiracy. See, weakness means that that is not the way we normally behave but sometimes circumstantially we do something wrong. But wickedness is very systematically planned.

Weakness is hot headed. Wickedness is cold blooded. So now, Rawa already had wickedness within him. That’s how we planned the whole thing to abduct Sita. But after that, Hanuman came to search for Sita.

And Hanuman gave a phenomenal exhibition of power. It was have you heard the words trail blazing? Has anyone heard the word trail blazing? Trail blazing means, you know, that somebody just goes on a new path and sets a trail over there. Somebody’s going in a car, the car goes so racing car goes so fast that that it’s it’s it’s blazes a trail over there.

So, Hanuman came to Lanka. It was not just trail blazing, but he was tail blazing. Now his tail was on fire, and with that tail, he set Lanka on fire. And while going, Anuman stood on the border wall of Lanka and he roared. He said, thousands of monkeys as powerful as me and more powerful than me will soon come and attack Lanka if Raavan doesn’t return Sita to Ram.

And with that he just jumped and he jumped the whole wall under the pressure of his jump crumbled. So it was a scary warning, and then, Ravan summoned an emergency council. So our Lanka has been attacked. What do we do? And then he said he he said, we thought that Lanka was impregnable, but it has not only been penetrated, half of it has been burnt.

What should we do now? Now, Rawan was surrounded by whom? Demons. And all those demons, now when you ask this question, there’s one person who gives some sane advice. Who was that?

Dheeshan. Dheeshan. Dheeshan told him that if one unarmed monkey caused so much damage and he already seen the power of Ram single handedly at Janasthani and killed 14,000 demons. So, you know, return Sita. You can save the whole of Lanka from destruction by that.

He got he got this good advice, but he also got bad advice. All the other demons, they said, Prastha, his commander said that, actually, this monkey, we would have killed him, but he caught us by surprise. Another demon said that, yes, if we had been prepared, he would not even be able to enter Lanka. He would have been killed before that. Let anybody else come, he will destroy all of them.

Other demon got up and he said, what to speak of waiting for them to come? Let us chase Hanuman now and go wherever he is and break revenge. Nobody who attacks Lanka should be allowed to go scot free. We’ll destroy all of them. We’ll not even let them reach here.

And like that, all the demons, they assured Ravana that there is no threat for him. In fact, those who had attacked him, it is they who were under threat. And Vibhishan said to, Ravan, those who speak what we want to hear are easy to find, but those who speak the truth are rare. He says, I speak only for your benefit. Their advice will lead you to destruction.

So then Indrajeet got up. Indrajeet said, oh, uncle, it seems that you work for our enemies not for us. Instead of inspiring our heroes, you are discouraging them. And he said he says, it seems you are not born you are not born an authentic demon family. You are a coward.

And normally to call anybody a coward is insulting, but in traditional societies, they’re very hierarchical. So we might speak something harsh to our equals or our juniors, but we don’t speak rudely to our elders. Somebody is our father or father figure at that time. So this was a grievous insult to publicly call Vibhishan a coward. And that too a junior, 1 generation younger calling him a coward.

And not only that, at that time, Ravind remained silent. The the harsh words of our critics hurt us. But more than the harshest words of our critics, more hurting than that is the silence of our friends. When we are criticising, nobody comes to defend us. That’s even more painful.

So when Ravan remained silent, Devisha decided, I cannot stay here. And he said, oh, Rawan, oh Indrajeet, because you have grievously insulted me, because you rejected my advice, I leave you. So here, what happened? Rawan opened the door to his own destruction by this. So, here, he had wickedness, he had good association, but he rejected it.

And he ne unlike Kaikeyi, Ravan never repented. Ravan never realized that I had done something wrong. So he, he himself was wicked and further he was surrounded by wicked association. And even when he got a wake up call, when he saw Hanuman’s phenomenal power and the devastation that he had caused, there was a wake up call for him. But even that wake up call didn’t wake him up.

Why is that? Because it’s possible to wake up a sleeping person. It’s impossible to wake up a person who is pretending to sleep. So similarly, he just blinded himself to everything that was contrary to the way he wanted things to be. And thus he courted his own destruction.

So this is also an example of the he was fortunate to have wise association with him even though he was a demon, but he rejected that association. And when he rejected that association, he invited, he courted his own destruction. The third case we will discuss is what happened in between, that is the case of Sugri, now Sugri, had because of a misunderstanding been exiled by his brother Vali And eventually, by Ram’s help, Sugri got the kingdom in Garak. And then the plan was that Sugri will help Ram to find Sita. But at that time, the chaturmas started, and heavy rains.

In fact, Indra said to be extremely angry at that time because Indra’s son, Wali, had been killed. So Indra showered unseasonal rains and normally, if say if our child is lost or something like that, we won’t just rains allow us stop stop us from searching for our child. So why did Ram stop just because of the rains to in searching for Sita? But at that time, the rains were such that you couldn’t even move. Well, not just rains but stormy rains, torrential rains.

So during that time, they decided that we’ll wait for the Chaturmasi to get over and then we will search for Sita. Now during this period, Vali had for a sorry, Sugriya for a long time had lived in the forest. And forest, although he was a monkey, he was actually royalty. Not just ordinary monkeys, he was a manara, and they had a prosperous kingdom. He had lived in the royal comforts and then he had been forced to live in forest austerity.

Now when suddenly he got all the royal comforts back, he started getting lost in sensuality, lost in revelry. And then the 4 months got over and still he forgot. He forgot that I had some obligation And and now for a king to provide enjoyment, there are many people. Because the king is wealthy, if they provide enjoyment to the king, the king will provide them wealth and other gifts. So he had that association, and he got lost in that.

And as 4 months were ending, the the associates and advisers of Sugri were becoming more and more concerned. And then Lakshman was sent by Ram. And seeing Lakshman coming, before that itself Hanuman anticipated that. Now for Hanuman, Sugri was his king. And that’s why Hanuman could give some gentle advice, but still he was aware of the hierarchy.

He couldn’t just warn me you’re doing something wrong. Then Hanuman thought what to do. Hanuman approached Tara. Tara had earlier been the queen of Vali. And then when Vali had died, Vali had told Tara to live in the shelter of Sugri.

So now Tara he told Tara, and then Tara came and told Sugri. And Sugri realized, hey. Okay. And Sugri came out of his, sort of, revelry, and he ordered. He he said that, let us go.

He ordered that wherever monkeys are there in various parts of the world, call all of them. Call all the monkey leaders, call and call all the monkeys and they we have a urgent mission. So he gave this instruction, but after that, again he went back to his palace, to his court and again he lost himself. See, awoke but again he went into a, you could say Maya, to illusion. But then after that, what happened?

Lakshman came, and Lakshman is known to get angry very quickly. And by this time, Lakshman was so angry. You see, if we love someone and if we see that they are in distress normally we want to do something to help them say, if if say, if we have a child and a child is sick now we don’t know what is the sickness and we want to help them and say we go to a doctor we go to a hospital. And the hospital the doctor, instead of attending to the child, the host doctor is busy watching a cricket match. Swad?

We’ll get angry, isn’t it? It’s understandable. So if we can’t help someone and those who can help are just enjoying themselves and not doing their duty, then we can get very angry with them. So similarly, for Lakshman, he he could see Ram was in such distress in separation from Sita and he couldn’t do anything. How do you find Sita?

And Sugriva could do it, but when he went sug he went to the royal palace, what did he see? He, Sugriva was watching movies on the Internet. The version of the Internet at that time. So basically, he was doing whether it’s Internet is there or not, whether movies are not there there or not, the important thing is essentially he was doing the same thing. He was just enjoying himself, watching dancing girls and stuff, and Lakshman got angry and he roared in anger.

So wretched monkey, ingratitude is the worst of all sins. Says one who forgets the favor that their friends have done to them deserve to be punished. Now when he spoke like this, his anger was so great Sugary was sitting and enjoying what happened? It’s like we are enjoying a movie and suddenly somebody roars at us. Hey, what happened?

And he realized he was Lakshman, and seeing Lakshman has anger, he became alarmed. And he didn’t even know what to speak at that time. But then Tara was wise. Tara came and says, oh, Lakshman. No.

Even the great sages fall prey to temptation. And Sugri was just a monkey. Now don’t be angry with him. No. After a long austerity, he got a fortune to enjoy, so he’s lost himself.

But he has not forgotten his duty. He has already ordered monkeys to come. And once those monkeys, have come, immediately, everybody will be sent to search for Sita. And then Lakshman became pacified. Then after this, Sugri never has any lapse.

Sugri purposefully, efficiently leads the monkeys. And when they find Sita, they go for regaining Sita on a rescue operation, which becomes a war. They even Ravan comes in, Ravan sends his messengers to tempt Sugriva. He says that, you know, you have no enmity with me. No.

You don’t get involved in this. I will I had an agreement with Wally, and we’ll continue that pact. And he gives him a lot of he gives him like a lot of gifts to allure him. But Sugriv is not allured at all at that time. So here, Sugriv has weakness and he succumbs to that weakness.

But before any real harm is done, what happens? The good association around him saves him. And then, it is not just good association that saves him, Once he gets engaged in a purposeful service, then even when some temptation comes, he is not tempted by that he is not distracted by that. So it is only when he was idle, he had nothing to do, and then there was the temptation. He completely fell for it.

It’s like, now if we have if we have work to do, we may not spend hours and hours surfing the net, watching movies, playing video games, or whatever. But if you have nothing to do, then what happens? WhatsApp. Then, yeah, WhatsApp, social media, Facebook, so many things come up. During our idle time, our mind works over time, and comes up with so many things to do.

And it’s our mind working over time, and with social media, there are 100 of minds working over time who all come together. So in our situation, it’s often like Sugareem that we all have responsibilities, we have material responsibilities, we have spiritual responsibilities, but if we place ourselves in tempting situations, we may get misled. We may get allured and misled. Now the world itself is a place of temptation, so we can’t avoid tempting situations entirely. But what we can do is we make sure that we have good association around this.

And that, like, just as, Sugri listened to that good association, and then he will say yoga. So similarly, we cannot avoid temptation, but we can make sure that we have good association with us. If we have good association, then even if somebody tries to fan our weakness, exploit our weakness and we start doing something wrong, the good association around us will warn us, hey, this not you should not be doing this. And that way, we will be protected. So, we cannot very easily change our mind internally.

The desire that are there, the inclination that are there, the habits that are there, we cannot suddenly remove all weaknesses from inside us. But, what we can more easily do is change our association. If we if we have the association that exploits the weakness, then if we are here, we will be dragged down. But if we have association that strengthens us, that warns us about our weaknesses, that inspires us to develop our strengths, then we may be here, but instead of going down, we will rise up. And the best association is not just that which tells us don’t do this and do this.

But the best association is that which inspires us to connect with the source of all goodness, the source of all virtue that is God Krishna. We all have strengths, we all have weaknesses. Now, if we connect with Krishna who is all pure, then by that connection both our strengths will become stronger and our weaknesses will become weaker. And then we will become better human beings. We’ll be able to better do our responsibilities.

We’ll be able to better pursue meaningful and fulfilling happiness. And thus, we can create a brighter future for ourselves as devotees of the Lord. And all this positivity can come in our life if we are careful about choosing our association. So I will summarize, and then we can have a few questions. So I spoke on the topic of choosing how our how we how choosing our association or how our association influences us.

We did 3 stories. So I started first by talking about, the choices we make make us and sometimes when we make we make wrong choices, we think that I lack determination. It could be true, but it could also be that, we have, we lack the right association to make the right choices. So we can’t suddenly develop determination, it takes time. But what we can do is wisely choose our association.

So I discussed 3 stories. What are the first incident? So made a terrible choice. So had what? Weakness.

And mantra had what? Wickedness. So we all have weakness, but if we listen to wickedness, then we end up doing wicked things. And if we can if we know that we have weakness, then we have to be careful to keep the wicked association away from us. Kaike was not a bad person, but she did a terrible thing because of bad association.

But at least, she did not completely cut herself cut herself away from everyone. That’s why when Bharat came back and Bharat spoke strongly to her, she came back to her senses. So that was weakness, being misled by wickedness, but then eventually coming back to goodness by a good association. But by then, it was it it was a mistake which is too late. The consequences were too many because she went too far.

She did not have anyone who she could listen to around her at that time. And that’s why her husband died, her, nephew went to the forest, and terrible things happened. Then I discussed about second story was? Ravana. Ravana.

Ravana and Vishan. Ravana and Vishan. He courted destruction. So even when he got a wake up call, he refused to wake up because his mind was rationalizing. Now we just see what we want to be what we want to see and neglect everything else.

So if somebody is at that wicked level, then for them to be saved is very difficult. And if they reject whatever good association little good association they have, then almost then there is no hope for them. And a third example was? Which who was that? Sugriva.

So he also had weakness, and after long austerity, when he suddenly got enjoyment, he lost himself. But the advantage he had was he had good association. And when he listened to that, when he listened to Tara, when he listened to Hanuman, and finally when he listened to Lakshman, and then not just listen to them one time, don’t do this and do this, but eventually, he got engaged in some constructive activity. Then even when weakness, temptation came, zerrawan came and tempted him, now send people to tempt him. He was not tempted.

So for us, we all have weaknesses, but to protect ourselves from those weaknesses, we can’t just expect one day I wake up and I have determination by which the weakness will go away. It will take time for the weakness to go away. But what we can do is carefully choose our association so that not we avoid the wickedness that will drag us down, we choose the goodness in the association around us that will that will raise us up. And the best association is that which connects us with the supreme good being God. When we connect with God through bhakti, then that strengthens our strengths and weakens our weaknesses, and thus, we can become the best that we can be.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So any questions or comments? Please take opportunity because so many we have some old problem for prevention. Don’t be shy.

Every one of us is here to rectify ourselves and come close to Krishna. And even though something want to come close to Krishna, we don’t have opportunity to clarify with the right people with higher understanding. This opportunity, says, This when we hear from senior devotees, whole millions of lifetime, which they can rectify. Opportunity is there. Please take me.

I have to go, but I think you’re sure because we want to do time on it half an hour just for questions because we’re trying something else. But I like to all of you, because we’re serious people, please take a few questions with answers. Definitely, we must get some doubts, but don’t be shy. So how do we identify the weakness and strength actually? As a Ravana, he’s a strength.

He’s, he’s a power he has. So he’s he’s looking for the strength, and he’s looking the association related to that. So how we, as a normal human being, how we can identify our strength and weaknesses? Okay. The previous stupid question, but I’m just trying to Yeah.

Go beyond I understand what you’re saying. So how do we actually identify our strengths or weaknesses? So Ravana was a warrior, and for him, those who would view confidence in his fighting capacity, he could call them as his friends. And those who would take away their confidence, he would call them as his enemies. So, how do we choose in such a situation?

Strength and weakness is determined not just by how well we can do something, but rather how right something that we do is. That’s why we have a innate comp we we all have, like, a innate moral compass within us, a conscience. We call it viveka buddhi. Now in some people, it might be more act active, some people it might be less active. And it is not that everything that our conscience tells is always right.

Sometimes our conscience may also get like a compass in a magnetic field may get distorted. So like there are conscience can also get distorted at times. But basically we have a sense of right and wrong. And, we need to act according to listen we need to listen to that. And sometimes our model compass can get obscured, so then we need to also consult somebody whom we trust.

So it’s not there is there, we all have certain strengths in the sense that we can do certain things well. But are those the things that we should do at a particular time? That is also something to discuss. See, as a Kshatriya has to fight, but it is not that a Kshatriya is meant to fight for any and every cause. It is Kshatriya is meant to fight to protect dharma.

So kshatriyas, the very word kshatriya in Sanskrit means shatha trayate itik shatriya. Shatha is hurt. Trayate is to free from or protect from. To protect people from hurt. So in that sense, Kshatriya’s fighting is for protection, not for aggression.

It is primarily for protecting people. So clearly, Ravan’s act of abducting Sita, somebody who was the duly wedded wife of someone else, it was wrong. And, even he had an understanding that what he was doing was underhanded. That’s why he did not just confront Ram straight away. He created a whole conspiracy by which he sent Maricha as a deer, and then he tried to allure Sita.

And then when Sita was not allured, then he he forcibly took her. So he already knew what he was doing was wrong. So there, it’s we need to have that moral compass. Then our expertise in terms of we can have somebody can have fighting ability, somebody can have verbal ability, somebody can have, say, money making ability, but all these abilities, we have to use them in a virtuous direction. Kama can mean it can specifically mean lust, but generically, it means desire.

It can even mean ambition. So when does ambition become greedy? When ambition makes us go over ethical boundaries. So Krishna says have ambition, but ambition that is not against dharma. So ambition that is within the boundaries of dharma, Krishna says, that is not wrong.

That is that is fine. We all want to grow in our lives and we all will look for what strengths we have by which we can grow. But in growing, we have to make sure that we don’t cross the boundaries of that. That kind of growth, if we become obsessive about a particular thing and then you cross ethical boundaries, then that growth will be destructive. It’s like all of us say we’re just one cell in our mother’s womb at one time.

Now we are fully grown human beings with with millions of cells. How did this happen? By growth. So growth is natural. It’s desirable also.

However, cancer is also growth, but that is what? It’s a disproportionate growth and it’s destructive growth. So when one desire, so the desire for wealth becomes cancerous that means for gaining money, I forget everything else. I forget dharma, I for I forget my ethics. I forget my, sometimes, family responsibilities.

Everything else I forget, and then it becomes cancerous. So we have to have that sense of that moral compass, that sense of dharma, and then may use our strengths in a way that is consistent with dharma. Okay? Thank you. Can I ask more questions?

Yeah. Yes. Does anyone else have questions? Yeah. So you mentioned about the moral compass.

Right? So that’s Vivek and Virag. Yeah. That’s Vivek. Vivek.

Yeah. Yeah. So how do we what do we do as a normal human being to increase or get more, more Vivek, actually. So then we have more better path to understand the the weakness and the strength. So how do we because that’s something is like a thing because you guys sleep in That’s true.

In a in a audience. So how do we add more that or encourage to to get more, actually, basically do it and where are you? Yeah. Good question. So how do we, let’s say, sharpen our conscience?

Yes. Broadly, three things. 1st is action. That means, let’s say, there are certain things we all know are good, and there are certain things we all know are bad. There can be a gray zone.

Should I do this? Should I not do this? I’m not sure about it. So the although there are shades of gray, that doesn’t mean there is no black or no white. So at least the things which we know are right, we can all list things many things which we know are right and good, but we are not doing it.

And we can all list a few things which we know are bad, but we are doing it. So let’s start with that. Okay. These are 3 things which I know are good but I am not doing it. Let me start doing it.

So today, you see, our conscience is reciprocal. To the extent we listen to the consciousness, to that extent, it will guide us more and more. To the extent we stop listening to it, it will become silent. It’s like, say, first time, say, if a slot if a butcher’s son goes to the butcher’s shop and has to kill an animal, the hand will turn, no, I can’t kill. But they still kill once, twice, thrice.

And once I was in Bengal, and I was going for a program, and I saw, like, maybe a 12 year old boy, he was killing chicken as you you cut sabji. Catching the neck, cutting and throwing it away. So the conscience has been completely numbed because we have been doing it repeatedly. So basically act according to the conscience, first thing. Where we know our consciences, we all have a broad sense of right and wrong, act according to it.

Do the right and avoid the wrong. That’s first thing. Second thing is education. That means we need to study books of wisdom, study books like Bhagavad Gita, which help us to develop that moral compass. So it’s not just the Bhagavad Gita is not just telling us do this and don’t do this.

It’s not a set of simply do’s and don’ts. 1 of my friends, was he’s trying to write a book on the Bhagavad Gita. So he told me I’m writing a book called the 10 commandments of the Bhagavad Gita. So I had told him, please don’t write a book like this. He said because the Bhagavad Gita’s mood is not of giving commandments.

The Bhagavad Gita’s mood is overall of giving choices and consequences. If you do this, this will happen. If you do this, this will happen. Now you decide what you need to do. Krishna also towards the end of the Bhagavadida says, Now deliberate and decide and do as you desire.

Vimrish Sheita Dashi Sheena, 18/63, he says. So we study books of wisdom which help us to under to understand the consequences of our choices better. So, basically, the books remind us that this is white, this is black. And then shades of grey also start becoming more clarified when we study scripture. So studying scripture is very helpful.

And third is purification. Purification means that it’s in the, one of the verses in the Sanskrit literature is that janami dharmam nachame pravrutte. Janami adharmam nachame lurutte. I know this is right, but I don’t feel like doing it. I know this is wrong, but I don’t feel like doing it.

So this is a challenge which all of us have. But what happens? Purification comes by the practice of bhakti. When we connect with the all pure supreme, Krishna, then what happens? By that, the pure side within us becomes stronger, and the impure side becomes weaker.

Sometimes, if we have strong conscience and weak will power, it’s very painful. You know, to have strong conscience and strong will power is good. I know what is right and I do it. To have weak conscience and weak will power is bad, but you that’s not psychologically traumatizing. Because I don’t care also if it’s right or wrong.

I’ll just do what I want to do. I don’t want to do the right thing, and I don’t even think it is right. It’s like that. But to have strong conscience and weak will power can be quite traumatising. We feel, burdened by guilt, by remorse.

So, to avoid that, when we feel that psychological trauma, either there are 2 options. Either we if we have strong conscience and and low weak power low will power, weak will power, then what do we do? Most people just weaken their conscience, and they solve that conflict. But a healthier way to do that is to strengthen your will power. And, actually, strengthening our willpower basically means it’s not just, like, you know, just grit your teeth and do something right.

Well, that is a simplified idea of willpower. Willpower actually means that we have an we understand that our capacity to choose is shaped by the kind of impressions that are there within us. So there are some pure impressions which prompt us to do good things, and some impure impressions which prompt us to do weak weak things, bad things, so we need to strengthen the pure impressions. So when we chant, when we do japa, when we do pooja, when we come for satsang, by all this, the pure impressions within us get strengthened, and we can strengthen our conscience. Okay.

Thank you. Any other questions? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, Prabhuji, during the process in Bhakti, so the associations reading and attending the satsangas, so, what happens now?

After some time, attending the programs like BG programs or the Marthikesh programs, attending attending after some time, it becomes quite routine, and it becomes quite boring. And it gives an impression that, oh, actually, I’m not learning anything. I’m just spending time, but, actually, I’m not gaining anything. And the third impression, slowly, slowly detach you from that, routine or association. So how to overcome this?

Yeah. Remember that. Gentlemen. I can’t even share Mhmm. In order to see that things like this.

Keep the mind. We have continuous positive thoughts. At some points, we’ll have some negative thoughts as well coming into the mind. So how to suppress those and took only the positive side? I mean, it’s always not possible to stick, to the positive side as well.

That’s true. What what what I how do you see me? Like, when I when I started, like, Krishna conscious few years ago, I was very, very enthusiastic initially because everything seems to be new, fresh. And after some time, and I felt boring because I felt like, you know, I’m not gaining anything. Oh, I knew this is chanting.

I knew a, b, c, d. I know I’m not getting any new, and that felt boring. So how to I knew that that felt boring is not not right thing to achieve the goal. Slowly with my willpower, I practice it practice it. But how to how do you have any suggestions for any Okay.

Newcomers to go work on this Yeah. Situation? So when we practice Bhakti initially, everything seems new, and we feel attracted. But afterwards, all the practices, even the philosophy, the power points, all seem familiar and old, and then we start losing interest. So what can we do about it?

Yeah. It’s natural. When there is newness, there’s some attraction to that. But there are 2 different things. 1 is the attraction or the satisfaction which comes by learning something new.

The other is that there’s a deeper satisfaction that comes by not just learning, but learning more deeply. So you could you could say, you know, you can have breadth of learning and you can have depth of learning. So initially, when we come new, it’s the breadth. Oh, I learned new story. Oh, this new shloka.

Oh, this new point. So there’s breadth that is coming. And it’s important to have that breadth also. But after some time, what we need is depth. And depth can come when we study scripture systematically.

That and 39s why we have, say, a course in Bhakti Shastri course, we have by which we can study shastra systematically. There and 39s a lot of depth. See, when we just attend normal satsang programs, it’s understandable because that’s for also for new people, and not everybody is equally serious. So many of our normal programs will be at a particular level, which is what is needed for most But for those who want to go become more serious, there is there is opportunity for that, but we have to seek it. So one way is that just start some serious scripture study courses, and that will help us see the depth of scripture.

So so when we start going deep, then we start seeing it. There’s a there’s another kind of satisfaction that comes when you go deep into things. That’s one thing. Second thing could be that, it’s important that we start taking responsibility for the philosophy, for the practice. That means, rather than just thinking that I know this point, see if you can get a forum to start sharing it with others.

Generally, whenever we hear a class, if we have heard for a few years, I know this point, I know this point, I know this point, but when we have to speak, none of those points come to the mind. Absolutely. So even if we are not speaking formally, informally also we are talking with people, still the examples don’t click. So what happens? That means the all the story, the philosophy, all that is there, but it’s like at the back of the mind.

One of my services is writing. So in writing, they said there are 2 kinds of vocabulary. You have active vocabulary and you have dormant vocabulary. Dormant vocabulary means you know the meaning you know the meaning of that word and you know the word which conveys that meaning, But you can’t think of the word at that time. And if somebody else uses the word, yeah, that is settled.

That is what I wanted to say. Have any of you had that experience? Yes. If somebody else speaks the thought we want to speak. It’s annoying.

That was my thought. So sometimes it can be annoying. So what happens? That means the we know the word, but it’s dormant. Dormant means it’s at the back of our consciousness.

So but when we regularly use it it comes in the active vocabulary it comes ahead the same applies to philosophy also once we know it it becomes dormant It is there but when we need it, it doesn’t come to us. That’s why take responsibility to speak. Say now, if you had to give a class on association, now somebody told you today you are going to have class on association. Oh, I have heard so many classes, you may feel like that. But then if you had to give a class on association, and then you think, okay, how does the speaker speak about association?

Hey, that’s a good connection. To a large extent, absorption is not a matter of discovering the new. It is a matter of reconnecting the old. When we get absorbed in something, what does it mean? It’s a we we of course, there’s something new, but it’s also okay.

This point is connected with that point. See, if somebody is absorbed in the cricket match say, if they’re watching a cricket match, now what does it mean? Now when they’re watching a batsman playing like this, they’re immediately remembering. Oh, you know, this batsman had come at that time, and he batted like this. Oh, this ball had bowled like this.

A similar situation was there, and that happened that time, and this happened at that time. So the whole purpose of anybody can watch a cricket match. Why are commentators paid so much? Because the commentators connect what is happening over there with what has happened in the past. And that’s why they help the readers to the reader, the watchers to become more hearers to become more absorbed.

So similarly for us, we need to cultivate absorption. It’s the same point about going deep, but here I’m talking about another way to go deep. One way is to by systematic study. The another is by teaching, by taking responsibility to start sharing with others. And then even as soon as I start, at least start hearing your class and say, I heard this point.

Then you can turn it around, okay, when did I hear this point last time? What was the context? What was the what was the point of this point last time? Now is that point being said for the same purpose now or is something new being said over here? Sometimes the same point can be given to teach something else.

Same example might so the point may be the same, but the point of the point may be different. Is it clear of this point? Why am I saying this point can be different? So we need to understand that. Ultimately, if you consider music, music can be so absorbing.

But all music, if you consider the raga theory, all music is ultimately just combination of but how many combinations can be there? And how much, absorption can come through a new combination through a particular combination. So similarly, it is not that we always need new points. Even the same exist exist existing points, we put them together in a particular framework. Oh, I never saw these things in this light.

So most of you probably knew the 3 stories that I told today. But, you know, probably you learned something because they were presented in a particular framework. So that’s like music, sir. You take the same but put it in a new combination. So rather than just saying, I know this point.

Okay. When did I heard this point, and in what context am I hearing this point now? So like that, if you become more, involved in the hearing process or involved in the reading process, passive hearing means just, oh, this part is the vocal, let me hear it. But active hearing means you involve your intelligence to okay. You this point you just increase the connections.

Oh, this point is being connected this speaker is connecting this point here. Sometimes we hear a story and we think I know the story, But then the speaker draws a different lesson from the story. Hey, I didn’t think of that. So then, it’s like a we have this connection but we make a new connection. So a lot of absorption comes by discovering new connections.

So if you do these things, study systematically, join a systematic study course, take the responsibility for teaching and whenever you hear a familiar point, don’t just dismiss, ‘I know this but when did I know this? When I had heard it last time?’ That way, you can foster new connections and become more absorbed. Okay? Thank you. Now regarding your question regarding your question, about, say, we have positive thoughts, but occasional negative thoughts come up.

What do we do at that time? In general, it’s, impossible to always have positive or pure thoughts. The world is a impure place, and negativity and impurity will come because of that. But the important thing is what do we do in response to that. I as mentioned in the introduction, I write on the Bhagavad Gita every day at the website called githadaily.com.

So I try to present the Bhagavad Gita’s wisdom in concise quotes. So based on 523 in the Bhagavad Gita, I had written a quote that temptation will temptation will come. We don’t have to welcome. No. But it is there’s a difference between temptation coming and we welcome.

No. So we all will get tempted, but do I do I welcome that? Do I expand that? Or okay. But I’m not interested in this.

Now now it’s it’s not easy, but at least we know. So temptation that’s the first point, that at least we need to differentiate. Just because temptation has come doesn’t mean I have to indulge in it. I can’t ex demand that temptation not come at all because the world is a place of temptation. But what can we do?

1st, we understand that I just because it has come doesn’t mean I have to say yes. Then next thing is temptations. The Bhagavatam says that temptations come like waves. In an ocean, if, say, we are fall in the ocean, if waves are coming, it’s almost impossible to fight the waves. I’ll push the view back.

I can’t do that. When a view comes, it’ll sweep us away. But if you don’t want to be swept away, there is a way. That is find an anchor to hold on to. Anchor is a heavy object, which the wave cannot move.

So, now, when the wave hits us, holding on to the anchor will also be difficult. But, comparatively speaking, the chances of fighting against the wave and holding the wave back are almost negligible for us. But the chances of holding on to the anchor are much higher. The same strength if we exert in trying to fight the wave and the same strength we exert in trying to hold out the anchor, the chances of we being saved are much higher. So we have to find out what are the best anchors for us.

The holy name of Krishna is an anchor. Whenever any desires come up, instead of dwelling on those desires, just start chanting the holy names. Studying scripture or hearing classes or not just hearing, but noting down some striking point that we are working, keeping them ready with us so so that we can do good. Oh, yeah. This is right.

And then that illumines us. So we have to find out our anchors. Sometimes it might just be good spiritual music, some nice kirtans. We feel tempted. We feel agitated.

But then we hear the kirtans. We start feeling calm. So then we can’t we can’t drive out the negativity. But even in the presence of negativity, we can create room for positivity. And once we create that room for positivity, gradually the positivity can expand and once the positivity expands, then the negativity starts going out.

So, by finding out our anchors and holding on to the anchors, and even if the negativity come like comes like waves, we won’t be swept away by it. K. Thank you. Yes. So, in fact, one thing is the peer pressure that we talk about, very similar to what, I mean, people who are, you know, 5 point 8 and so that I, you know, I’m able to, you know, get the right adversity.

But we are we have been a world where, you know, I am in a world where there are a lot of gadgets. Everybody has a gadget. Everybody has this. Everybody has that. I am now in a position either I feel deprived if I don’t have it, or I feel the fear of being odd if I don’t have it.

How do I find that peer pressure? Okay. So if our gadgets distract us, but if we if we have the gadgets, then we will become like odd person out. And the peer pressure will be there for us. So we can’t avoid that.

Yeah. It’s not a matter of this is practicing spiritual life doesn’t mean that we have to go to extremes. There can be balanced ways of doing things. For example, device distraction is not just a concern for spiritualists. It’s a concern for everyone.

Now there are so many apps that are developed to regulate screen time for kids. There are from computer. There are parent control app parent control apps. And there there are many, like, successful people even in Silicon Valley who don’t use social media so much. There are some recently I forget the name.

The prominent Hollywood star, Hollywood hero who doesn’t have a Facebook account. So now I’m not saying that we can’t do that, but I’m saying that this concern is there for everyone, everybody is dealing with it. So it is possible to be regulated. And that basically means that we try to create as much structure as possible in our life. What does that mean?

That means that structure means, okay, this is the time when I’ll do this, this is the time when I’ll do this. We don’t want to be imprisoned by our structure, but we want to be protected by our structure. Say, if it’s Sunday, and whole day I have nothing to do, and then maybe I take up my phone, just look at Facebook or look at YouTube, I might spend 6 hours on it. But if I have something to do, okay, now I have to do this work, I have to meet this person, I have to do this, then what will happen? The more the more structure we have, the less rupture our mind can cause.

And social media is nothing but our mind extended by technology. Like, our mind, others’ mind, all minds have come together in the form of social media. So now just as we need our mind, we can’t we can’t think without our mind, but sometimes we can’t think because of our mind. It works both ways. We the mind is a tool for thinking, but the mind starts getting thinking of everything else except what it is meant to think about.

Or sometimes the mind starts thinking, overthinking. So just as we need the mind, similar in today’s world, we need we need social media, we need Internet, we need devices, but we need regulation. Generally, what I find helpful, and I have told others, I’ve given given talks also on this, broadly three things I talk about. Be purposeful in browsing. That means don’t just think that browsing is something which I’ll do when I get bored.

And then it’ll be succazily purposeful. Okay? I want to visit this website. I want to look at this app. I want to look at this.

Be purposeful. Be clear why we are going on the Internet. The second is be regulated. Okay. 15 minutes, half an hour.

Sometimes we might have to spend an hour or 2 also, but whatever it is, plan out. Now we may say, but no, sometimes something interesting comes up and we would like to watch that. Yeah. Then third thing is be ready to differ. Don’t have to say no, but not now.

Right now, I had planned 15 minutes, look 15 minutes. Hey. This video looks very interesting. I wanna see it. Yeah.

It might be useful also. You know? It’s not that everything on social media is bad. There’s a lot of good stuff also available. I gave a class once on Internet in the three modes.

Even on Internet, there is a lot of goodness also available. A lot of knowledge available, a lot of spirituality is also available there. But a lot of other distractions also there. So be ready to differ. That means, see when something pops up in front of us, it’s very difficult for us to discern.

Should I watch it or not watch it? The the the the the urge to discover the the hope of discovering something new that is so strong, let me just watch it. And you might spend hours, so be ready to differ. Yes. This looks interesting.

I’ll go I may I’ll watch it later. And maybe you decide after 6 hours, after one day, or maybe have a weekend when you decide I’m going to watch this. And by that time, what will happen? That urge for newness will have gone down. And then you can evaluate based on merit.

Is this really required for me to see? And then we can evaluate. So, basically, purposefulness be purposeful, be time bound, and be ready to differ. If you do these three things, relatively speaking, it is possible to, to balance our engagement with social media and technology. Okay?

Thank you. Question 1. Mhmm. So in the process of, Bhakti, sometimes, like, while choosing association, so having a determination in the process might, appear rude to, like, old friends or even family. So how do we deal with that?

How do what to do in such a Yeah. Can you give an example? Like suppose, like, if it’s a family, then they have different, ways of, doing things. Like, they want to enjoy something else, and we want to do something else, like, spiritually or something. So it would be a Okay.

Conflict of interest there and how Okay. Yeah. For example, eating, onion garlic or knowledge. For example, we come from a background on knowledge. Even now, they have been disappointed that I have given up knowledge.

So this is a simple example, but, in the spiritual life, many things come up so often. Okay. Be strong and not get, you know, sad or disturbing. Yeah. Okay.

And the other thing is you have the same tantric. Like, when you come to the bhakti moksha and Krishna conscious, initially, you are you are, subtle by, you are you are within this friend circle. So when you become a Krishna conscious member, slowly, you you are connected with your whole friends through habits. When you come to the Krishna conscious, it is a lifestyle change. So, your habits change, the and your consciousness change.

And it is difficult for this person to go and click into the same subconsciousness, and there’s a little bit conflict. And that’s what how to be Yeah. Okay. So when if you want to be strict in practicing bhakti, we have to stop doing some things which we were doing with our family members or old friends, and that can offend them. So how can we be strict without without offending or hurting others?

Yeah. We need to go beyond black and white. Sometimes we say this is spiritual, this is material. It’s true that kind of classification is true, but that is not complete. Within the material, also there is sattva, rajas, and tamas, or we could call it as pro devotional, non devotional, and anti devotional.

Sometimes when you lump everything together, then people start feeling that you don’t do any of the things that I’m doing. And then it creates a big rupture. But the process of bhakti does require us to some extent to make some hard choices. But we don’t have to make the choices hard unnecessarily. Let’s do different things.

That means, say, I would say with respect to meat eating, we need to be strong. That is something which, actually, we don’t have to be even religious to to recognize that meat eating are not be not so good. So many people who are becoming vegan now. So many people simply because of maybe just emotional sensitivity, they say I’ll not eat meat. That’s like us we could say that is like a core principle for us.

So within the practices of bhakti also, there are core principles, and there are auxiliary principles. So we don’t have to consider everyone, everything to be just as equally important. So having said that, we can as I said, that’s pro devotional, non devotional, anti devotional. So if something is anti devotional, be firm about saying no to it. But if something is pro devotional, something is non dev pro devotional means if somebody just wants to talk about music.

Now they may be talking about music, and they may talk about Bollywood songs and these songs, but you know, if not just somebody’s talking about music, but let’s talk about music in a little deeper sense, you know, this instrument is played this way, that is played that way, then we can also learn something from that. They may not be directly talking about learning it for Krishna, but it’s it’s favorable to devotion. We can learn something from it. Maybe they are singing a Bollywood movie tune, but we learn that tune and we can use it in just giving a random example over here. But there are things that are pro devotional.

Although they are not doing it in a devotional way, but they are useful for devotion. Some things are non devotional. Say, if some people want to talk about sports or politics. Now some for some people, sports and politics can be like a obsession when they keep talking all the time. But for some people, then they can just be like a icebreaker.

You know. If 2 people meet, then what do you talk? If somebody is a devotee and somebody is not a devotee, then there is no common substance to talk also. But if people start feeling that, if we have something which are non devotional, but they’re not anti devotional, then talking a little bit about that, that’s not a big problem. So, I was talking with a senior sanyasi leader in our moment.

He said that after many years, his mother when he was he himself was, like, in sixties. His mother, became very sick. He was diagnosed with cancer. But it was not a fast acting cancer. It was slow cancer.

But his mother became a little more, spiritually oriented because of that. Then he connect he connected with her, and then they start meeting and talking. But then he said that when, you know, I will maybe, I would show her some Hari Krishna movies, maybe Acharya or others. She would watch it because she loved me. But after that, we would have nothing to talk because this is like so directly spiritual movies.

She says then he he told me that I talk with some of my godbrothers, other sanyasis, and then he said we selected some like wholesome western movies. See there are movies also of different kinds. Some are like inspirational stories. Some are just like bang bang violence. Some are sexuality.

So some movies we uplifting movies which talk about some moral values. And these movies, we started discussing. And then we couldn’t discuss a lot of things. And then slowly, in that discussion, I started inserting Krishna conscious themes. So he says, now we have a very good relationship, and now when actually, when she passed away, you know, he was there and she was chanting, he was there chanting for her.

And then he said that couldn’t have happened if I had not started by extending myself. So now I’m not recommending that everybody watch movies just to develop relationships. No. We can rationalize anything for anything. But I’m saying that we sometimes need to be a little broader in our vision.

That means reject. This is spiritual. This is material. I’m going to reject everything material. No.

In material also, you use we use our intelligence to classify. And that is just pro devotional, non devotional. Sometimes if you have to do a few things like that, that’s okay. See, there are even in standards, there are levels. That means, say we can say the pure prasadam is what?

Food that is is harvested by devotees, food that is irrigated is is transported by devotees, food that is cooked by devotees, food that is offered by devotees, food that is honored by devotees. That could that could the highest standard. And then we could have also food that is not meet, that is offered to Krishna and taken. So all these are standards. Now you could say a higher standard is better, which is true but then everything is within the realm of acceptability.

But somebody says meat, that is not acceptable. So the the within what is the what is the what is acceptable, there can be a spectrum. And at different times, we may situate ours in the different places within that spectrum. So we have to consider that not only do I want to be Krishna conscious, but I also want to act in a way that attracts others to Krishna consciousness. Not that it alienates others.

If my strictness makes people’s alarm and scared, You know, if I become a devotee, I have to become like this person. Then we we say, I’m so strict, but actually we are doing disservice. And so I was with an from I was with the Solange Viraj Maharaj. He’s a very prominent, very senior disciple of Prabhupada. So he was telling me about how Prabhupada was, was practical.

Once the devotees had gone to somebody’s house to take food, and at that time, they had cooked food with onion garlic. And they were all sitting and taking, and one of Prabhupada’s disciples said, Prabhupada, there’s onion over here. Prabhupada looked at him and said, there’s no onion in this. And then he said, no, Prabhupada. There’s onion in this.

There is no onion in this. And then that that is the authority. He actually took out some onion and showed it to Prabhupada. See, there is onion. And Prabhupada looked straight at him.

There is no onion in this. And then Prabhupada looked almost angry, and he became silent after that. And then they all took that food. And after that, when they were going back, Prabhupada said to the devotees that, you know, for a religious family, if a sadhu comes to your house and then rejects the food, it is like a considered to be a disaster. That is our mistake that we didn’t tell them in advance that and we didn’t tell emphatically that we don’t take garlic.

So if they have cooked, they have cooked with some service attitude, some devotion. So as Krishna consciousness is not just about ticking some boxes about how many rules we are following. It is about acting in a way that maintains our Krishna consciousness and also maintains attracts enhances other Krishna consciousness. So, again, I’m not recommending eating food with only garlic. That’s not the point over here.

The point I’m making simply is that we shouldn’t think that Krishna consciousness is only about strictly following rules. It is also about acting in a way that attracts others to Krishna consciousness. So, we need to be sensitive. If certain things are very important for people, then we may do those things, just because we don’t want to disrupt the society. Krishna says that don’t disrupt the minds of ignorant people.

So even if somebody is doing something which is not exactly the way we do things, and we we may not do it that way. But, okay, go along and do it with them. And if that maintains the peace in the family so if we do something for a for a few minutes, they they are performing some pooja, and that’s a family pooja that is happening, and we go and do that pooja. And then we are in a different country. We are in a different place.

And the remaining 3 64 days, maybe the remaining 3 64 days and 23 hours, we can peacefully practice Krishna consciousness. Then for that 1 hour, doing something which is not anti devotional, it will just be non devotional, but then it’s okay. Just do it and focus on continuing Krishna consciousness properly. But if for that 1 hour see, I will not do this. I remember one devotee, and he was he just had become a devotee, and all over the world, there is something called as the zeal of the new convert.

If somebody is newly taken or something, they are, like, fanatical about it. So what happened was that in their family, they would worship some dhyota, and then he had gone home. And normally, then at the puja, there was prasad. So now he thought that I’ll take only Krishna prasad, not duta prasad. So what he did, they gave him prasad.

He took it. He kept it in his mouth, and then he went out, and he spit it out into dustbin. And one of the relatives saw it. And it was like a thunder after that. So, you know, okay.

If most of their life, most of the days, most of your meals are prasad, if one hand for for most Hindus, prasad is not a full meal. It’s just one something which you take in your hand. Isn’t it? So, you know, if you take one handful like that and that maintains the the the peace on the family, then what is the big deal? We have to be clear about what are central principles and what are not central principles.

I’m not saying not central and not important, but in the relative hierarchy. Now to if to follow if to follow strict small principle, I become so strict that then it causes so many disturb disturbance. So, hey, then our whole family is angry, and then there are quarrels, and then you’re chanting 16 rounds, and not one round you are hearing. Not 1 mantra you’re hearing because your mind is so agitated. Well, keep the mind peaceful so that you can focus on bhakti.

So we have to be balanced, and balanced means understanding what is more important, what is non negotiable and what can be negotiated. Okay? Thank you. Thank you very much. Prashev, Haribo.

Haribo. Haribol has some new books done, Ramayanam and Git.

The post How association influences our choices – Three case studies from Ramayana appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

Hare Krishna. Sir, thank you for coming today. And we’ll speak on the topic of teamwork based on the Ramayana. Broadly, I’ll talk from the Sundarkand, which is the time when the monkeys go out in search for Sita.

And we’ll talk about how Hanuman emerges as a natural leader despite not being the appointed leader. See, whenever we work in a team, at that time, there are different people with different abilities, different people with different levels of maturities. So to get all of them to work together is a challenge. Now one way we might say that in a team let’s let everyone be equal. Our current age is the age of egalitarianism.

Everybody be equal. Now functionally, conceptually, equality sounds very good. But functionally, equality can be chaotic. Or at best, it can be unproductive. Say, if you want to cook food and if you decide let everyone be equal.

Let everyone play equal roles while cooking. But some people might naturally be better at cooking than others. If somebody is more talented, more knowledgeable, more experienced, more talented, then it makes sense that they lead the effort. So then if they lead the effort, naturally, a hierarchy is formed. So we could say there are 2 things.

There is equality, and there is hierarchy. So whenever there is any problem that we need to face, and life gives us many, many problems throughout. So whenever any task is to be done, whenever any problem is to be faced, not everyone is equally competent at dealing with all problems. So in the interest of solving the problem and ultimately in the interest of everyone, it is best if those who are good at solving that problem, they are allowed to lead. So they then a natural hierarchy is formed.

So equality in concept sounds very attractive, but in practice, hierarchy is required. However, a lot depends on how the hierarchy is formed and how it functions. If somebody who’s at the top of the hierarchy is there not because they are really good. It is because somehow by some factor apart from competence, Maybe just power. It could be brute power, physical power, political power, whatever.

Financial power. By that, they get to the top of the hierarchy. And that does not lead them to actually doing the responsibility that comes at the top of the hierarchy. Then that hierarchy tend towards tyranny. So when we long for equality or when we want to avoid hierarchy, it’s often because there is this fear of tyranny.

That whoever is at the top of the hierarchy, they may exploit us. They may further their own interest instead of the team’s interest. So in any team, broadly speaking, there is there is a tension between these two factors. Every team member needs to be valued, and in one sense, there’s a longing for equality. But, also, for the team to function, there has to be a hierarchy.

But sometimes in the hierarchy, there can be tyranny. So either way, teamwork becomes tense. Normally, also there are, when people have to work together, there is some tension. Because different people have different opinions. But especially teamwork becomes difficult when there is a hierarchy that is formed.

And in that hierarchy, there is naturally some resentment. Why is this person at the top? Now suppose if we are cooking and we only have to eat the food. You know, I say sometimes simplified version of the law of karma is what you cook you will have to eat. So like that, if we consider that if we are going to eat the food and we are in a team cooking, then we would agree.

You are a good cook. You take the lead. Not that I want to avoid work, but it will not be good enough. So when the results of not functioning in a hierarchy are very immediately apparent to us. Say, for example, if we are going in a car and, say, we are not very good drivers, and it’s a tough road.

See, you drive. Basically, we are giving power to that person. But because there, what happens? The result of not functioning according to hierarchy are immediately visible. The car may be with an accident.

But quite often in life, the results of not working on hierarchy may not be so immediately visible. And then we may resent why is this person here? Say, I am here. This person is here higher up than me in hierarchy. Why is this person and some especially if we feel that we are more competent than the person who is higher up in the hierarchy.

That’s when it becomes very difficult to have a team spirit because, you know, actually, we are meant to do this, and I can do this better than this person. And why is this person giving orders and I’m following orders? And of course, it is very easy to think that we can do things better than the way they are being done. But actually, when you start doing things, everything is complicated. Everything seems easy till you start doing it.

Even cooking might seem simple, but when we cook and we burn food, I have eaten to cook food thousands of times, but I realize it is not easy. We may say, I speak all day. But once when I have to speak in public, hey, I freeze. Maybe it’s not that easy. So when whenever somebody else is doing something, it’s very easy to criticize it.

If this is not being done well, it should be done like this. But everything seems easy till we do it ourselves, till we start doing it ourselves. And then we start realizing the challenges. So often there may be a tendency to reject the hierarchy. But if the hierarchy is rejected, we may not have equality.

What we may have is chaos, or we can have even disaster. If say in a plane, if we say the pilot and the passenger are equal, anybody can Google the pilot. Nobody will want to sit in that plane eventually. So we can’t we if we look at our life itself, everywhere there are hierarchies. Now we agree to be a part of a hierarchy if we feel that our that whatever position we have in the pecking order, whatever position we have in the hierarchy that is beneficial for us.

Say for example, you come for a this class now. So in a sense there is a hierarchy. There is a speaker and there is a audience. You feel that maybe by coming for this class, you’re going to benefit something. So we participation in the hierarchy, we continue it voluntarily as long as we feel it’s beneficial.

Sometimes, of course, even when you feel it’s not beneficial, we might be obligated to be a part of hierarchy also. Then there is resentment. Why do I have to be here? Why do I be here in this position? So so this is the broad background about how hierarchy So, there is the desire for equality, but there is also the need for hierarchy.

And how do these two go together? That is the universal tension in every interpersonal interaction. Whether it be, in a family, between husband and wife, between parents and children, between, teams in a professional setting, between devotees working to do seva, do service, that there is a hierarchy, but there is also there is a desire for equality. There is also need for hierarchy. So, basically, now there are some natural hierarchies.

Natural hierarchies means it is parents who give birth to children. So, parents are in a controlling position. Children are in a obeying position. If there is a there is a law of the government, then there is the, say, traffic officers. They are at the top of the hierarchy.

All the people in the, who are driving, they have to follow the rules. So, there are some natural hierarchies which are essential for functioning. But whenever a particular task is to be done, say we form a team for that task, and then within that, a hierarchy is to be formed. Now, say we are doing this task for the first time, We may not even be sure how good who is at a particular task. So, then there might be what you call appointed hierarchy, and there might be an emergent hierarchy.

A pointed hierarchy means this person is at the top. This person is lower. But then as things are done, gradually, what happens? Oh, this person actually better. So let them take care.

Emergent hierarchy. So, for example, if we consider a team, say, a cricket team. Now in a in a in a cricket team, maybe there is some batsman who is very aggressive, and that person can score runs very fast. And then other players just play the anchoring room. They’ll just be there, give the strike to the player.

So that will be natural natural hierarchy. This person scores a lot. That person just feels the strike and gives the strike. But suppose on a particular day, so that that is you could say the appointed hierarchy. You be the attacker and the other will be the, anchors.

But then maybe on a particular day, the player is in a very good form. And although that player normally plays the role of a sheet a sheet anchor is anchoring the innings that person is in a very aggressive mood playing very well then even the person who normally aggressive he may say that okay. If you are adding well you 2 be the aggressor. I’ll play the sheet anchor role. So, what that means is there is an emergent hierarchy.

So, natural appointed hierarchy is the way things are planned. Emergent hierarchy is how things actually work out. And sometimes the hierarchies may change. So at one level, if the team is to form in the beginning itself, there has to be an acceptance of the appointed hierarchy. Okay.

This person is the leader. These are all follows. But if the so without that the team will not form itself. But once the team is formed, for the team to function, there has to be the willingness for emergent hierarchies. You might find, oh, actually, this person is better.

This person really knows this stuff very well. Somebody might be a team lead, but in a particular area, if a particular person is expert, they know about say, if it’s a software, you’re making software, and this person is really good at this particular area. Then although that person is not the official lead, they may become the emergent leader. So how these tensions are to be dealt with? First, the tension when an appointed lead is there then the tension when an emergent lead come emergent leaders emergent hierarchy comes up, an emergent leader comes up.

That’s what we will discuss how based on how the team was formed to search for SITA and how the dynamics within the team changed gradually as things moved forward. But at this point, this is the background. Any questions or clarifications or comments at this point? Yes. Just one question about the hierarchy.

The hierarchy is not fixed, but can it change when circumstances change? Example, let’s say, let’s say with the cricket, let’s say, when it’s very cold, for example, maybe someone else Yeah. It should be changed. It should be allowed to change when it is necessary. That’s what I’d say.

Basically, can hierarchies change? Yeah. See broadly speaking, there are 2, you could say, schools of thought. You see the liberals and the conservatives, or you could call them the left wing and the right wing. So the left wing, the liberals are generally against hierarchies.

So for example, communism had the idea that there are the capitalists, there are the owners of the means of production, and there are workers. And the owners exploit the laborers. So down with all destroy all the owners. So the in general, the left is against hierarchies. But they are you could say broadly speaking the liberals.

See, you know, let people do what they want. Be liberal about things. So they say that this is a hierarchy. Let’s see how we can bring it down. How we can, make things little more equal, horizontal.

Then there are the conservatives, which is the right. Now the right has often got a negative label because we often associate with that with the say right wing religious extremists or whatever. But in general, the idea of the right is that the right wants to stick to hierarchy, stick to order. This is how things have been done. Let’s continue the the area.

So now who is right? Well, it depends. Sometimes the hierarchy needs to be maintained for things to move forward, and sometimes the right is right. You know? Although there are problems in this hierarchy, every hierarchy has some problems.

But if the hierarchy is functioning and is delivering the goods, then move on. So, sometimes disrupting hierarchy can create a lot of problems, bigger problem than what we thought we were going to solve. So, but sometimes the left is right. The hierarchy is leading to a lot of people at the bottom of the hierarchy being exploited, being abused. Then things have to change.

So, you could say that both the Left and the Right, the Liberals and the Conservatives, they have to interact with each other. They have to talk and understand each other so that what is right for that situation can be understood. Generally, whenever there is any conflict, you know, there’s there is people tell their own story. So every story has how many sides? What do you think?

As many people as you know. Yeah. As many people. If there are 2 people who are in conflict, then how many sides of the story? 3.

My side, your side and the right side. So it’s not the right side doesn’t mean necessarily that see our memory even if oh this person did like this this person did like this When when one person tells the story and another person tells the story, it’s not even if both peep neither of them is, is manipulative consciously, but still our memory at a subconscious level tends to be selective. And that’s why we often remember the things which show us in the good light and which show others in the bad light. And if we have done something wrong, often we forget that. Not that you consciously want to forget that.

It happens that way. So actually, memory is a tool for the past. History is also a tool for the past. But, you know, memory and history are non interest are often not entirely overlapping. There are many things in history that are not in memory.

That means they happened, but we have forgotten them. And there are many things in memory that are not in history. That means they did happen, but we imagine they happened. So that’s called false memories. And the point is that whenever there is a conflict, both have to discuss.

So sometimes the hierarchy has to be maintained. This was the appointed hierarchy. This is how we will do things. But sometimes, the hierarchy can be adjusted. This is how things will work better.

So the emergent hierarchy comes up. Okay. Now now if you want to do this, this this is how it will work better. So, that’s so hierarchy in principle, hierarchy is required. In practice, whether the pre appointed hierarchy is the best way to move forward or we need to have a more of a horizontal structure or we have we have a new hierarchy that has to be seen.

So what will keep both the left and the right together, the liberals and the conservative together is not the focus on the practice, but focus on the purpose. Focus on the practice means this is how we have been doing. Zah we’ll keep doing all the time. No. But is this doing this leading to the result?

Now this is unfair. Let’s not do it. But this is producing the result. So let’s continue it. So if we get too caught in the practices alone, should it be done like this or should it be visible like that?

Then often the conflict can become interminal. But if we focus on the purpose, we are doing this. Is this the right thing to do? Is this the right way to do things? How do we decide that?

It depends on, the the purpose. Where do we want to where do we want to go? What do we want to do? Say, like, a say, before the pre GPS time, if we were driving a car, and now we know a particular way. And, say, okay.

I’ll lead I’ll drive the car. I’ll take it along. But then that road is blocked as heavy traffic. And then somebody else says, yeah. I know that way, and that will be free at this time.

Oh, okay. Then you take the wheels. So the original hierarchy of I’ll be the driver, but no. Should you be the driver or should I be the driver? The appointed hierarchy might be there, but the hierarchy will change.

Instead of I driving, you drive because the purpose is what needs to be focused on. So, if we keep focus on the purpose, then we can adjust things. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions?

Yes, please. One of my questions. Yeah. Because, I have the problem when I was studying doing the dance, and we have mixed syllabus. Right?

People who will stay in dancing and less experience dancing. So when you have a technical class, what they’re doing is That’s true. Yeah. You know, it depends a lot on context. Say for example, sometimes if, if a class is there, a lot of interaction in the class.

Now if it’s a philosophical technical subject which is the focus is more of educational, then maybe the speaker needs to speak more. But if it is more practical, then maybe there are group tasks, there is more interaction, then little things become learned more. So how the thing should function, that lot depends on purpose. Okay. Thank you.

Any other questions? Okay. So let’s start. The, in the Ramayana, when the monkeys are called by Sugri, they all assemble in different parts of the earth. They come and then Sughri tells him that all of you need to go and search for Sita.

And he appoints a group to go to the south because south is most likely where Sita is to be found. Let’s see Ravan flying the southern direction. Now, of course, it could be that, Ravan might be deceiving also. Sometimes, you know, you go in a particular direction and then you change directions. That’s how sometimes you say if somebody is is a car chase and somebody is pursuing someone, you create a decoy or a deception.

That is all the that’s why they, he send people in all four directions but but still direction, it was more likely that Ravan would be in the south because he also knew that Lanka, Ravan is king in the most on that side, broadly speaking. And even if that that awareness was not very clear, but still, of course, even if you say Lanka is there, whether he she’s gone to Lanka or gone somewhere else, you don’t know. And at that time, when Ravan was flying high above the sky, he did not perceive these monkeys down there as threats. There’s no need for him to deceive them. So so he formed the most, so Sugri, considering that Rahul was most likely to be Lanka, he formed a team to, search for Sita in the south.

Now in that team, there are many members, but 3 were prominent. Who were those 3? Hanuman. Hanuman? Anyone else?

Angad. Angad. Jamaban. Yes. Thank you.

Neil and others were also there, but these 3 were prominent. Now each of them had something, to commend them. Jamba 1 was senior. He was the oldest, most experienced, wisest, you could Then, Angad was royalty. He was the son of the previous king, the nephew of the current king.

And although he was young, he was also valiant. Now, Hanuman till this point has not really manifested his power in a big way. Till this point, Hanuman is primarily like assistant of Sugri. He has not fought any major wars. Does anyone know why Hanuman is not prominent till now?

Because he he was cursed to forget his own powers. Yes. He was cursed to forget his own powers. When he was a small child, at that time, he was very mischievous, and then he was cursed. So the sages didn’t want to curse to punish him, but they wanted to curse to curb him.

Because they said, you have we won’t take away your abilities but we will take away your memory of your abilities. So now, it’s interesting that he still had some abilities. That’s how when he wanted to approach Ram, he changed his form and he took the form of a brahmil. A wise person and first time approached brahm and they had a talk at that time. He still had some of his powers but it was not like a dazzling display of powers.

So Hanuman was also an important member, but Hanuman was not like the official leader of the team. Sometimes a I’ll because for most of us, cricket is familiar. So I’ll use some cricket examples. In America, if I use cricket, the first thing they think about is the insect. So anyone unfamiliar with cricket here?

Okay. Unfamiliar? Unfamiliar? Unfamiliar. Familiar?

Yeah. Okay. Unfamiliar. You are unfamiliar? Unfamiliar.

Familiar. Okay. Not familiar. Okay. Sure.

Okay. So, say, sometimes the star player in a team is a captain but sometimes the star player may be a great individual performer but might not be a good captain. When somebody says the captain, the star player is the star. So there are different ways in which things function. So now, among all the vanaras, the the first vanara that Ram had met was Hanuman.

And they had naturally bonded. Of course, at a spiritual level, we can say Hanuman is the eternal devotee of the lord. And, that’s true. But even at that functional level, they had bonded very nicely. And Ram had that indication or faith or whatever that Hanuman will be the person who will find Sita.

And thus, among all the people who are going in various directions, Ram gave his signet ring only to Hanuman. It’s interesting that Anghad was the leader, but Ram gave this to Hanuman. Now Angad was made the leader because he was born in royalty, and Angad was in a peculiar situation. At one level, his father had recently been killed, and it was like he had to be working with the person who had caused the death of his father. Now Angad did not in any way blame Ram.

Although Ram had shot the arrow, which led to the death of Wali, he knew Ram had no personal enmity with Wama with Wali. It was Sugri who had asked Ram. So he still had some resentment towards that. After all, his father had been killed. It is difficult for him to work.

But before dying, Wale had told Sugriyu that Angad and Tara, they are blameless. Angad was too small when all this happened. And Tara, my wife, she told me repeatedly to patch up to reconcile with you, but I did not listen to her. So please don t take out any of my anger again your anger towards me against them. And he told both of them to live under the shelter of Sugareem.

So, although there was some resentment, but because of that submission, because of the instruction of his father, that was like that was like his last wish. So Angad was living in living with Sugri and doing his will because he was also, although his royalty, still he was not the king. He was subordinate to the king. So, Sugri also knew that Angal had some, reservations about his leadership, about his position. So, sometimes he had to give people space.

So, he made Angad the leader. You are going in a group, although he was young, so you should become the leader. And everybody accepted that Hanuman as well as, Jambowin and others accepted that, and they started searching. Now, they were told that all of you have to return within 1 month. And normally, it’s whenever any service is given, accountability is required.

How well is the service being done? I say sometimes people work from home. And it’s difficult to keep track. Now, whether you are working from home or you are working for home. It’s difficult to keep track.

So any service accountability is required. Imagine you are in a plane and suddenly this is a pilot speaking, today I am working from home. Really? The The passengers we also want to go home now. We don’t want to be there.

So any service, some amount of accountability has to be there. So what Sugri, you said is, now when you’re going for searching, it’s a big task. So he any big task can become like a elephant. It can become like a whale. It can become huge.

So he said that all of you should search and come back within 1 month. Because, you know, any task that we do do, it has there has to be a cap on it. Because otherwise any task can become infinite. So if we are if we decide that, okay, you know, I lost my phone. Phone.

I want to search for my phone. Okay. Now you can search for it. But how much time do you spend searching for it? If you spend one day, you spend 2 days, you spend 5 days, then you think, you know, maybe it’s not worth spending so much time.

Better luck to get a new phone. So any task can be expanded unlimitedly. So he said all of you have to come back within one month because searching, it’s a phone lost in the places where we go that also is difficult to search. But somebody whom whom most of the monkeys had never met, somebody who don’t even know where they are, the search for that person is a very difficult thing. So come back within a month.

Now, generally what happens among kshatriyas, when instructions are given or when words are spoken often, there is a kshatriya spirit. You know, 2 warriors are fighting when say, today I will send you to the abode of death. Today your body will become the food of vultures. So there is that, rhetorical intimidation which is a part of Kshatriya culture. So as per that, Subhriya said, anybody who comes, who delays coming back, who’s a laggard, who doesn’t come within 1 month, they will be executed.

That is not that he’s going to execute them. But there has to be some fear, some threat you know, things have to be done. So now the Vanara started, with Hanuman carrying the signet and they all knew we had to come back within 1 month. And they went south They went toward the south. South, south.

And they went down, down, down. They searched in caves, they searched in forests, they searched in, wherever they could. They couldn’t find Sita anywhere. Eventually, they started feeling hungry, thirsty. They couldn’t they were they’re in such a wilderness patch that there was no water available.

They came near a big mountain and then they saw that over there, oh, from a cave, some birds were coming out and their wings were dripping with water. Oh, maybe there’s water here. So they decided to go. They peeked in and they saw it didn’t seem like a cave. It seemed like a catacomb.

It seemed like a whole network of dark paths inside. So, I thought outside their search, they couldn’t find any water anywhere. So, they decided, let’s go in. And then Hanuman went in the front and all of them held each other 1 by 1. Sometimes in the dark, it’s they are searching for something or going somewhere, but one possibility is gonna get lost.

So they all held on to each other, and they formed a long queue, and they went in. And then and then and then and then. Sometimes when you go into a dark place, when is it going to end? Is it going to end also? So as they’re going deep, of the monkeys are worshipping.

Hey. Now maybe we shall go back. Oh, I don’t know. We’ll we’ll find something over here. No.

But now we’ll be so tired that we will not be able to go back also if we don’t find anything. So naturally, some dissension started happening. Generally, when things are working, then people don’t complain. But when things stop working, then everybody starts complaining. You see what happens after the event, everybody is expert of how it should have happened.

Like recently, there’s a cricket world cup and India was expected to do very well when India lost in semifinals. And after India lost in the semi finals, like there are 100 of people you know saying, oh you know this batsman should have been sent first. This ball should have been given the ball. This one should have done like this. So everybody is expert about how things are to be done.

So the things don’t work, that’s how it is. So then they said, no we should not go, we should go, we should move on, we should not move on. But Hanuman kept relentlessly moving forward. And finally in the distance they could see some light. Now when they saw that light, what is it?

They came forward and then they saw it like a mystical place, there were trees which seemed to be luminous And those trees had beautiful lush, lush fruits or lush greenery over there and juicy fruits. And it seemed like a mansion over there along with well taken care of gardens with orchards with fruits and lots of food to eat. The monkeys became jubilant. He said, let’s go eat. Hanuman said, wait, wait, wait.

He said, whose is this? What is this? This is so beautiful, it just can’t be existing automatically over here. It must be belonging to someone. And he looked around and then as he looked around, he saw in the distance there was, somebody sitting and the body was effulgent and he looked forward, looked carefully and he saw that it was a it was a female, it was a yogini.

And as they went closer and closer Hanuman saw that there was effulgence coming from her body and he very respectfully approached her. And he told all the monkeys, monkeys are restless, and they’re already hungry, which makes them even more restless. But he stopped stopped here. And then he approached and he said that, no. Oh, lady, who are you?

And what are you doing here? Doing meditation over here? And what is this place? And then he introduced himself. I’m Hanuman.

I am the servant of Sugriva, and we are on the mission, given by by Ram. And this is he said, I am swayampraba. Swayampraba means self effulgent. And she said that, I’ll stay here as the guardian of this place. And this place is actually constructed by the architect, the celestial architect, Mayada now.

And it was used by him, but eventually, there was a fight between Indra and Indra Indra took it over. And Indra had a Apsara whom who used to live here. And then Indra asked her to come. So so he won this. And then he, Indra gave this to his this Apsara who was very dear to him.

But after that, Indra wanted that Apsara to be with him. So he took her to heaven. And then she asked me to be here as the guardian. And now Hanuman, sometimes when you speak something, people don’t voice a question but there is a question which is a question mark on their face. Yeah.

So Hanuman, how are you thinking? You know, this is a this is a forest, this is a big place and how is she going to guard it? And she said that, I have been so then she noticed that question, that thought, how are you going to guard this? She said that, actually, I have been blessed with yogic powers. It is by my yogic powers that I protect this.

Oh, Hanuman, if any of you had eaten the fruits without my permission without taking permission from me, you would have died. The protection was that nobody could disrupt things over there without being harmed themselves. So Hanuman’s maturity was when you see something wonderful, when you see something great, don’t presume it is for you. Don’t presume it is for you. Ask whose it is?

Hai. He said, oh, because you are in a cultured way, ask me. And because you are the because you are serving Ram, you can have these fruits as much as you want. And then, so here we see Angad was the leader but Hanuman was known to be good at speaking. Hanuman was expert at speaking in a way which could connect people.

Often, when we get upset, then we think we speak to give others a piece of our mind. Yeah. I’ll tell you what what you’re doing. Actually we should give we should speak to give others peace of mind but we give them a piece of our mind and then we take away their peace of mind and then they take away our peace of mind. Degenerates.

So at that time, Hanuman because he was expert at speaking and everybody knew that Hanuman was a good speaker. So, that’s why even earlier, when Ram and Lakshman were going through the forest and Subhiri noticed, who are these 2 people who come? He said, Hanuman, you find out. And when Hanuman spoke, at that time, Ram said, oh, he’s so learned. His speech is so sweet.

Just by hearing him speak, oh, all my anxiety of the mind has gone. All the tiredness has gone away. Some some people’s speech is very jarring. Some people’s speech is very soothing. So, his speech is very soothing and very sweet.

So now, here, with respect to this, although Angad was a leader, Angad also knew. Hanuman is expert at speaking. So, Angad naturally allowed Hanuman to speak. And Hanuman, because he was there, he was not an appointed leader, but he was in the in this particular ROCE per case, he was an emergent leader. As emergent leader, he saved the day for them.

He without even knowing they could have rushed into dangers. In this world, often pleasure seems to be present at many places. Nowadays especially on the internet, so many things thereis so many things free available. You know whenever any product is free, that means that we are the product. We are the real product.

You know. They give something free so that they will catch our consciousness. So, some programs some say say movie streaming channel or something they will say, 15 days free. And then in free, people watch so much and they get hooked to it. And then they become ready.

I have to pay this. So what happens, in this world, nothing comes free. And whenever anything seems too good to be true, it is probably too good to be true. Some things there must be some catch somewhere. So in this forest, in this wilderness where they were starving and suddenly, like, a magnificent, lush greenery and lavish natural abundance came up.

How did it come up? He says, this is not by chance. Probably this is. So Hanuman had that maturity. And then when Hanuman and Swaha Prabhava spoke, Hanuman said, okay, you can eat now.

And they all went and they drank water and they ate abundant food, and they rested and they got rejuvenated. Now the search for Sita. And so then Anupam turned towards Swayampraba, and he said that, how do we now, thank you for providing us this hospitality, this food. How do we go out from here now? See, in general, in our life journey, wherever path you want to go, there are broadly it’s an individual journey or a team journey.

There are 2, you could say, kind of obstacles that come. 1 is temptation and the other is tribulation. We are going on this particular path. Temptation means just go off this path, you can get some pleasure. Tribulation means that, oh, this path has so much trouble in it.

Why do you want to go? This path you can’t move on. In anything we want to do in our life, say, we want to we want to study for an exam. Then Then the temptation might be while we are studying, suddenly our phone gives a notification. Your friend has updated their Facebook profile photo.

Oh, let me just see that photo. And you click and see that one photo and maybe one more photo. And then what without will be 1 minute, may be 1 hour will go, 3 hours will go in that. So temptation, that’s one distraction. The other is tribulation.

Yes. Studying is too difficult. It requires too much effort. Maybe I shouldn’t be doing this. Maybe this is never going to work out, and then we may stop.

So this can happen at an individual level, this can also happen at a team level. So now the vaanaras, they face this temptation that, oh, just pounce on those foods and eat them. And that could have been the normal monkey tendency. But Hanuman said no. And they were protected from the danger that came because of the temptation.

Then now a tribulation came upon them. What was that tribulation? Sayyampraba, you see, when Hanuman asked, what is the way out from here? So she said, there is no way out from here. What?

He says, there is no way out from here. Now as soon as the monkeys heard this, they became angry. You know, see, it’s it’s good to be comfortable, but nobody wants to be confined. Somebody said, there’s no way out of there. What?

Tell me the way. There must be a way. So the monkey started advancing aggressively. And Raman said, stop, stop, stop. He says, what do you mean?

He said that those that when Indra asked me to guard this, one arrangement he made for protection was that even if those who could enjoy the fruits and luxury facilities over here, if they go out, then they will tell everyone else that there’s so much over here. And then people will come and plunder and ruin this. So for the protection of this place, Indra has arranged that anybody who comes in can never go out. Now this can be very scary to hear. Come here.

You can never go out from here. Hanuman just maintained his car. He said, okay. But then when we saw that there were these birds, they were flying out of here. And there wings with water, so they had also reached the water.

So so emperor Vasily said, yes, but they are not a threat to me. They are not a threat. So Anwan said, we are also not a threat. He says, No. You may tell you may tell other monkeys and they may come over here.

He says, no. No. We are not going to do that. He says, we want we are here only to serve Lord Ram. This is far away from our homes.

We are here on a mission to serve Ram, and we need to go urgently. So Anuban earnestly begged her. I told her that we are no threat to you. I’m sure there must be a way out. He said, yes.

The only way out is that you I can take you out, but then you will not know you have to close your eyes. If you cannot see. You will go out and you will not know how you the path out the path in. Back from this. He said okay.

He told all the monkeys to close your eyes. They closed the eyes and then Swayamprah Bha used their mystic powers. And they suddenly opened their eyes and they saw they were near a mountain and it looked, magnificent. They’re seeing the bright light of the sun, the big sky, and they said that now I brought you out. And as they were looking out here and there, they noticed that they had not come out with the same place they were in.

And so emperor Prahara said, now I am going back. And he says because they had this sincere desire to serve Ram, So what Swaimpapa did was, this big mountain range inside this cave was there. So they came in from this side and Swaimpapa brought them out from the other side. So that now they don’t have to go through the labor of scaling the mountain. And thus they came closer to their destination.

So again Hanuman s careful speech saved the day. We all can get angry. We all can get provoked. Now all of us would like to say give good speeches if we are called upon to give. And if you generally if you give a bad speech, we will regret it.

Oh, I didn’t speak so well. But if we get angry often when we get angry we will give the best speech that we will ever regret. Anger often makes us shed all our inhibitions. We might be shy we might be stage scared and whatever but if you are angry we will go out and speak. I will do the best speech that we will ever regret.

So we will speak without any reservation, but often we will speak something many things which you would regret afterwards which we should not have spoken. So for Janaka Pandita also says for a warrior, for a king who wants to conquer the world, the first skill to learn is the skill of the tongue. Not the skill of the sword, the skill of the tongue, skill of speaking. Because a king might be a great warrior and it is important for a king to them himself be good at fighting. But a victory does not depend only on the king fighting well, the king has to inspire the army to fight.

And that requires skill of the tongue to speak. So we see Hanuman’s expertise here where he naturally emerges as a leader. And then as they have emerged out, they start searching again. So, this is I will be talking about 3 main incidents. So this was the first incident where Hanuman starts emerging as a leader based on his speaking skills, his maturity, his emotional maturity, his verbal expertise.

The second incident, I will talk about my interaction Sampati. And the third interaction is our third incident will be about Hanuman preparing leap across Sri Lanka. So any questions at this point? Yeah. Well, are leaders born or are they made?

I’ve addressed this in I have written a book on 10 leadership uttas from Bhagavad Gita. I’ve addressed that in that. See there is, you could say 2 kinds of leadership. There is public leadership and personal leadership. Public leadership means, the ability to inspire others, the ability to lead a team per se, a group of people.

And that requires a certain set of skills maybe that as I said it requires eloquence verbal expertise that requires organization, delegation, accountability, keeping track. There are certain skills which are required for public leadership. And some people may have it those skills, some people may not have those skills. But more important than public leadership is personal leadership. Personal leadership is that means we should be able to lead ourselves according to our principles, according to our values.

We should be able to lead our mind, our senses in a way that is consistent with who we want to be. If somebody is a public leader without being a personal leader, they may lead for some time, but sooner or later, everything will collapse. So they might be very powerful like a like a king might be very powerful, good leader in terms of public leadership, good warrior, good speaker. But say the king is not able to have personal leadership, then the enemy might send some seductive woman and the king might just fall for her, and then she might poison and kill. So if the if there is public leadership without personal leadership, then there might be success for some time, but things will collapse.

But if there is personal leadership, then even if a person is not an appointed leader, still that person can inspire others. All of us through our day to day actions, actions, whatever we do, it influences others. Every action that we do has its influence, has its impact. So, therefore, personal leadership is something which every one of us can do. In terms of public leadership, there are certain skills which some people may be born with.

Now, can others develop it? We can, but it may not come naturally to them. And they may not develop them to as much extent as those who had them in born and had those coming naturally. So some people might be very good speakers, but they might not be very good delegators and organizers, strategic planners. Some people might be strategic planners, but they might not be very good speakers.

Some people might so these skills can be developed? Yes, they can be. But there is, an innate talent which, which cannot be replaced by a large amount of practice alone. So, personal leadership is something which every one of us can develop. Public leadership is something which, we are largely born with.

And that can also be developed, but not in a significantly dramatic way. May not be. So in that sense, we all can be leaders whether we whether we become public leaders or not that will vary from person to person okay thank you yes Which intelligence? Then? Emotional intelligence.

Then second one? Raw intelligence. You know, like, analytics. Okay. Raw intelligence.

Okay. Is emotional intelligence more important than, say, raw intelligence or analytical ability? Yes. It’s difficult to compare the 2 in the sense that both have their utility in their particular fields. So, if somebody is a mathematician and that is the field they are specialising in, then without having adequate IQ, without having adequate raw intelligence you cannot function in that field.

So, in certain specific fields, the raw intelligence is also required, and IQ is required for certain areas. But, emotional quotient is something which emotional intelligence is something which everyone needs. And especially if somebody is going to work in a team, work in a community, then emotional intelligence is more important than than intelligence. So, I just could say raw intelligence because raw intelligence may enable us to become to excel individually. But it is emotional intelligence, which will enable us to excel while working with others.

Okay. Thank Okay. Good question. So even in personal leadership, say, some people naturally are maybe more self controlled. They’re already born in goodness.

So then what is the difference between personal and public? Yeah. See, there are there is a soul, there is the mind, there is the body. Now you cannot rigidly differentiate between the mind and the body in terms of, what is an ability coming from where? Say somebody has singing ability.

Is that ability of the body or the mind? You could stay at one level of the body, ability of the body. Your throat is it produces very sweet sounds. But it’s not just that. The mind also has to be attuned to speak that, to to sing that way, to do what it takes to sing regularly.

In general, you could say that the, so you could talk about but still you could differentiate between abilities and qualities. Abilities are more functional skills to do certain things. Qualities are more character centred virtues. One way to differentiate it is you could call it talent and temperament. So talent, you could say it’s more physical.

Say somebody is, you know, an expert batsman. They just can hit shots which other players can’t even dream about. So that’s But temperament means to know when I should hit that shot or when I should display defensively. The maturity to choose, that’s temperament. So in general, achievement requires talent and temperament both.

So, based on our past karma, we get both the body and the mind. And among the body and the mind, which is more changeable? Mind. Yeah. You could say it’s more difficult to change, but it is more changeable if you work on it.

If, say, somebody has white skin and they wanna change it somebody has dark skin and they wanna change to white white hair. It’s s quite difficult, you know. If somebody is say 4 and a half feet and they want to become 7 and a half feet. Well, that s almost impossible. So at the level of the body the kind of physical attributes we have and the physical abilities we have.

Some voices are naturally sweet. Some voices may not be sweet. Now still you can speak in a sweet tone but speaking in a sweet tone is not the same as actually having a sweet voice, Isn’t it? So when I talk about, public leadership, I was talking more in terms of the physical abilities. So, of course, you could say that, speaking is it physical or psychological?

That’s why I said, it’s not a like a rigid differentiation, but it’s a broad indication of the differentiation. It’s a so that there are certain you could say certain things, which we get from the past, which fall more towards the ability side. And there are certain things which you get from the past evolved from which fall more towards the quality side. Now again, you could go into a hair splitting difference between what is the ability and the quality. Let’s not go into that direction.

But what Iim saying is that purse whatever is required for personal leadership, there is there is a greater possibility to change that. But what is required for public leadership, there there may not be that much possibility to change that. So, certainly, some people might be more suited to be personal leaders than others and that difference can also come from past lives. But the capacity for changing is more with respect to personal leadership than public leadership. Okay.

Thank you. Any other question? Yes, please. Charisma. Yeah.

Charisma is a gift. It’s a special gift, which some people have, which some people develop also over time. And that can be a very powerful tool for attracting leadership, charisma. It’s almost mysterious what concomprises charisma. But it’s also a challenge that leadership is, based on charisma.

It can be very powerful but it can also be very meteoric. It goes up like a meteor and it comes down. Often after a charismatic leader say their tenure ends or they depart, then everything can crumble. If everything is based on the charisma only, things can crumble. That is why in many ways, whenever any organisation is based on a charismatic leadership, then, then the succession becomes very turbulent.

And succession requires what is called in organization theory as the routinization of the charisma. That means the charisma has to be passed on to the structures of the organization. And that is often very difficult to do. So charismatic leadership can be very commanding but it it is not very sustainable. So, if you have charisma we use it if you don’t have still we do the best that we can.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. So before we go to the second and third instance, do we need to have break now? Should we have after 10 after about half an hour more?

What would we prefer? How many of you want a short break? 5-ten minutes? 12? Bells.

Maybe then. Because if I start the incident, let him go to 12:10. It’ll take a 25, 30 minutes. 12:10 is okay. 12:10 is okay?

Okay. Fine. So now after they emerged from that cave, they again started searching. And although initially they were lated, now they were nourished. They were having food, water, they were energized, but still they were no closer to actually finding Sita.

They started searching, searching, and soon they realized that they couldn’t find her anywhere. And despair started setting in. And as the despair started setting in, that is a time when the monkeys said, what to do? We have searched for so long. They had been in that Sohimbraha’s cave also for quite some time.

Before that also, they had been searching. Now 1 month had already got over. Some of the vanaras said that, let us go back and inform Bali of what has happened. He says, no. No.

No. We have come so far. Again, for us to come here will be difficult. Let’s keep searching. Let’s keep searching till we find.

So then, as they would keep searching, but eventually nobody was finding anything. They kept searching, kept searching, and then gradually, despair started spreading further and further. And he said, where are we going to find Sita? Let’s go back. And Angad said Angad became even more desperate.

You know? It’s like, say, he is young, he has been appointed the leader of the team, and the team is filled. It like, say, you have a new captain of a team and the captain goes for a cricket team and you go for a tournament and you just fail this money. Now sometimes, especially in India where people are very emotional, if you win there will be thousands of people welcoming you if you lose thousands of people will garland you with chappals with shoes. Now there can be a lot of disgrace and humiliation when you lose so Angad felt mortified thinking that, oh, if I how can I go back?’ He said, ‘I failed over here, and if you go back, we’ll be disgraced.’ And Angad’s imagination started working now?

See, imagination is a very powerful tool we have. But we need to know how to use imagination. If our imagination is channel constructively, then we can envision things and then we can get the inspiration to actualize those things. So, imagination channel constructively is very powerful. But imagination running wild can be very dangerous.

It can just we can conjure up all kinds of horrifying situations, and we can paralyze ourselves with fear. When this starts happening, you know, the mind can say, you don’t know the future. This may go wrong. That may go wrong. That may go wrong.

And it just becomes so fearful at that time. So when the mind starts conjuring fearful scenarios, and what happens is none of us know the future. So we will say, oh, this can happen. This can happen. So we can get overwhelmed by fear.

One way to deal with that fear is, yes, we acknowledge that we don’t know the future, but then our mind also doesn’t know the future. So just as we can’t forecast it, even the mind can’t forecast it. And if the mind can’t mind is forecasting it, that is also speculative. So we need to check that fear. So how do we so what did Angad started thinking?

Angad said that actually, Wali had Sugri had said that anyone who comes late, after 1 month, they’ll be executed. He said, no. No. That was that was not literal. Many times certain statements are made and just the context tells you that they are not literal.

But, you know, like, but sometimes people might take those statements are non literal literally. And then we all have this, there are so many metaphors that we have which if we take them literally, they can they can, they can be completely out of place. I was in Lester, I think, last last year. And I gave a class and there was a nice question answer after the class. It’s a call I think it’s a college program or something.

A lot of young people. And after that, the devotee had organized the program. He just came to me with a big smile on his face. He said, Prabhu, you killed it. What did I kill?

And why are you so happy about it? So then, I realized that he was using that in a non literal sense. So that phrase comes from the hunting metaphor. Either somebody shoots, you kill it. That means you you shot very well.

You did very expertly. So he was appreciating, but it was confusing for me. So this is not a literal statement. But what happens when we want to when our mind catches a particular narrative, mind going to a particular track, it starts finding everything to support that narrative. So just Surya said he’s going to kill us.

We’ll be executed if we don’t come back. And he said, actually, you know, Sugriva, he will already be seeing me as a threat to him. And he’ll just he will use this as a even if he doesn’t execute all of you, he will use this as a as a pretext to have me executed. And rather than being considered a failure in front of all my family and citizens and being humiliated and executed, better I’ll stay here itself. I’ll not go back.

It like, say, the Indian captain says I’ll not go back to India only. It’s No. You know, that’s too much. But he’s no. Nobody is going to so Hanuman, he naturally he heard this.

Angad was the leader. And when Angad started speaking like this about their king, that naturally causes concern. What we speak matters but what position we speak that matters even more. Now if if somebody has got a say may be some kind of swelling on their hands or swelling on their body somewhere. And I come and tell you you got cancer.

What? If I am not a doctor and I say you got cancer, you are pessimistic. And your doctor comes and says you got cancer. Oh, really? No.

So So what is being said matters but who is saying it also matters quite a bit. So if there is a hierarchy of leaders. So Angad is 1 leader and sugri with another leader. Sugri with the leader above the leader. So So, what happens is if in a hierarchy of if there is a team and if in the hierarchy of leaders, one leader speaks against another leader who is above them.

The result is what? People get demoralized. People get confused. So when Vali when when Anand was speaking like this, Anuman realized that this is going in a terrible direction. Let’s stop this.

So how do you stop it? He said, actually, Wali says, Sugri will never do like this. He is virtuous and you are his nephew. Now Angad was already desperate and Angad said, no. He said, you say Sugri is virtuous, but he had his own brother killed.

Had the first opportunity just to get the kingdom. If he killed his own brother, then what is what stops him from killing his nephew? Now, when he started speaking like this, he said that he said why Sugreen is so hungry for power that he can go to any extent. Now when he spoke this, all the monkeys became agitated. And Hanuman said no.

Now Hanuman was naturally very concerned by this. It’s like anger, this sowing, is accusing the king of grievous, horrendous things, and he is he is actually actively fomenting rebellion, insurrection against him. What do you do? What’s your time? So one man was trying to persuade Rama.

He says, no. Actually, Sugri will never do anything without Ram, without Ram’s consent, and Ram will never allow such a thing to happen. He said, no. No. Sugiri was very cunning.

You know, he influenced Ram to kill Vali, so he can influence Ram to kill me also. This is all his imagination going. At this point, going. At this point, hunger had faded. I am going to sit here and I am not going to go back.

And I am going to do prayabrata. Prayavrata is. Does anyone know what is prayavrata? Fast till? Till death.

Till death. Yes. Tomorrow Ekadashi would do Ekadashi Vrata. Isn’t it? Prayavrata is ought to be tried.

But, see, that’s a traditional way. If somebody feels my life’s mission is over, then let me end my life now. So he said, I’ll do Prayavrata. And Angad just sat down. And when Angad sat down because he was the appointed leader, what to do?

Many of the monkeys, they looked at Hanuman. They looked at Angad, and many of the monkeys sat down near Angad. Now somewhere left with Hanuman. Hanuman said, no. We’re going to find Seeta.

Why did you sat down, Praivrath? It’s like a big division. Now, you know, if Prabhupad said you love for me will be shown by how you cooperate. Now the most basic level of of cooperate is at least cooperate. You know, you operate here.

I will operate here. Well, let us both operate. Hey. What is really bad is if I I criticize you and you criticize me and most of our energy goes in that itself. We sing every morning samsara.

In the mangalati, there is samsara, dawana, liddalok. In the material world, like a forest fire. And bringing Krishna’s mercy, the spiritual master’s mercy, we are going to extinguish that forest fire. But quite often, when we are living in a community, we find most of our energy goes in extinguishing the fires that we ourselves have set. That means it is internally only so many problems come up.

So dissension is a big problem. Now what does one do at that time? Hanuman had tried his best. He tried to persuade Angad. Angad’s point, of course, he was very unreasonable.

From his perspective, it might seem reasonable, but it was not. This fear was just a wild imagination, but he couldn’t see it that way. Sometimes when we are faced with a problem and we’re trying our best, and nothing seems to be solving the problem. As devotees, we may remember the Lord. We may pray to the Lord.

So in the Nam Brahmayat, he said that Let’s recite recite this 2 words. Kapiwara santatta samsmrth rama. Can you repeat this? Kapiwara. I’ll just explain that because you’re kapiwara.

Kapiwara is monkeys. Wara is the best of the monkeys. Santat is always Samsmooth is remembered. So kapi var santat Samsmooth Rama. Var santat Samsmooth Rama.

And then he says, tudgati. In their progress, wignu. Is obstacle. The obstacle that came in their path, they were destroyed by whom? Rama.

So now what happened? Hanuman was praying. Hanuman was, you know, remembering Ram, what should I do in such a situation? Sometimes we have a problem and we’re not able to deal with the problem. And then we pray for help and then a bigger problem comes.

This is what happened? I already had a problem and I prayed for help. Something instead of a solution, a bigger problem has come up. So what happened? Something similar happened over there.

There, as they were as they were talking and discussing, and I was remembering the lord and thinking what to do? Pray? And suddenly they saw a giant vulture marching over there. Who was that? Yeah.

Yeah. And this vulture didn’t have wings, so he couldn’t fly. And he was just walking along and say, oh, providence is very fortunate. Providence is very kind to me. Today, I will get to feast on all these monkeys.

And all these monkeys were sitting in prayavrata and sat next to them waiting. Now it is one thing to know to know that I am going to die and to even agree to I will fast to death. But its quite other thing somebody is waiting for you to die then they are going to eat your body. It’s so all the monkeys became agitated. And now, Sampati was also very powerful.

It was big. The monkeys became alarmed, and they didn’t know what to do. And, actually, among all the monkeys, 1st person who had sat down was Angad. So Sampati went and sat right next to Angad. And Angad’s despair became even greater.

And then he said, alas, it seems that despite my best efforts, despite our best efforts, we are all meant to fail and die in the service of Ram. Our fate seems to be like that of Jatayu. Just as he died by serving Ram in vain, we also will die in vain. And there’s Sampatthi. What did you speak?

What did you speak about Jatayu? Angad has lost his own thoughts. He says, what? He says, what did you speak of Jataayu? And Langar repeated what he has spoken.

Says, Jataayu is dead? He he said, yes. Who is Jataayu to you? And there is giant bird suddenly started crying. I said, Jatai, he was my younger brother.

He said, I lost my wings because I was protecting him from the heat. Both of them had flown high into the sky to go near the sun. And when Jetayu started becoming very scattered by the heat, Sampati Sampati had spread his, wings, and his wings had got burnt. So he said, I sacrificed sacrificed my wings to save the life of Jeta Yu and Jeta Yu did. Tell me what happened?’ Then seeing this intense emotion, they all told the story of what had happened.

And somebody started crying, and he said, please help me go near the, river. Let me offer some water for my brother. And then he offered the water. And then they were all very moved to see his great distress and then they started thinking. Angad at this point, oh, if you had flown up to the sun, that means you must know where Lanka is, isn’t it?

Sampati had been Sampati had been Sampati had looked very dejected. He shrunk, and suddenly he pokes it up. Oh, he realized that there is something he could do about the death of Jatayu. He said, long ago, when my my wings had been lost, I wanted to die. But a sage told me that in future, you have an important service to do.

You will do a service for, for the servant’s servant. He says, now is that he realized that now is the moment for me to do that service. And what is that service? So I can tell you. He says, although my body has weakened, my visual is my sight has not weakened.

And he rose up, and he says, across the ocean, there is Lanka. And and he peered carefully, and he said, in Lanka, Sita is right now there. Lanka is across the ocean, and Sita is there. And as soon as the monkeys heard this, they all became jubilant. Yes.

Now we’ve got a clue. Now we know where to find Sita. So you see how rapidly fortunes changed. At one moment, the monkeys were ready to die, and they were even though they were not ready to die, they were cut utterly confused, not knowing what to do. Sometimes when we face a problem, at that time, we may ask for help.

But as I said, sometimes we ask for help and a bigger problem comes up. That’s what happened. But if we are having a sincere, desire to serve, sometimes to that bigger problem, our attention gets shifted from the smaller problem. So, 2 people might be quarrelling with the other, but then a bigger service comes up, a bigger challenge comes up, which is a common project, then they forget their difference. So, in this case, anger somehow you know, how things can work, we don’t know.

Anger needed to have spoken about Jataayu. Anger that, at that time for him to think about Jataayu and speak about Jataayu and to speak it exactly at the time when Sampati was right next to him. That, you could say, it’s a coincidence. But it is that coincidences are god’s ways of of remaining anonymous. So when we keep trying to move on, how things will work out, we don’t know.

Nobody could have predicted that Sampati would come there and Angad would speak this and Sampati would turn out to be a little jata yu and Hampati would know well, Anka is. They didn’t know it all. But and we are facing difficulties. Rather than letting ourselves get consumed by those difficulties, we just get out and try to move on. When we pray for help, sometimes help comes, but not in the way we had expected.

In fact, sometimes it may come in the opposite way itself. Like, in the, Mahabharata also, it happens that Draupadi, that when the pandas in the forest, Indurvasamuni comes, and he says he wants food. And Akshayapatra has already been washed and kept. So they say that, what do I do? So all the pandas are panicky, and Draupadi says that, let us let us pray to Krishna.

And she prays to Krishna for help in getting some food, and what happens? Krishna comes and tells her, I’m very hungry. Give me food. Now it appears like a bigger problem. Because once you couldn’t feed the priests feed the sages, and now I can’t feed our lord also.

Like one problem and a bigger problem. But through the bigger problem, sometimes Krishna solves a smaller problem. So, you know, when we are dealing with difficulties, we needn’t focus so much on the size of the problem. We can focus on the strength of our purpose. If our purpose is to serve Krishna, how big the problem is doesn’t matter.

The problem will be solved not it’s not because the problem is solved, we can solve it. Problem is small, so we’ll solve it. And because the problem is big, we can’t solve it. Actually, we have certain abilities, but far bigger than our ability is Krishna’s ability. So if we have a strong strength of purpose, then Krishna will make the arrangement.

How it will work out, we don’t know. But the strength of the purpose, strength of our purpose is what will help us move forward and deal with problems. So here we see it was in one sense Angad’s failure his losing losing of heart but although at one level he had lost his will or he had become dispirited. But still, within his heart, he had the desire to serve Ram. And it is only because of the desire to serve Ram that’s why he could compare himself with jumbo.

And he could say, oh, he I was not successful. I was successful. So sometimes, practically, we might not be able to do a service. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we have to just give up our spirit of serving. Just because some services are not possible for us.

So we may, we may be uns we may not be able to do a service, but we needn’t lose our service attitude. So doing a service successfully is not always in our hands. But maintaining a service attitude is in our hands. And if we maintain that service attitude, then we will find that we all can move forward. The doors will open we didn’t even knew existed.

And thus we can move forward. So we’ll have a break now. And whatever questions you have, we can discuss. And then we’ll go to the last part about Hanuman’s emergent leadership.

Thankyou

The post Teamwork in Ramayana 1 appeared first on The Spiritual Scientist.

If we see that some of our leaders are making a mistake and we are juniors, what do we do at that time? A lot depends on specifics, what kind of mistake it is, what is our position related what is our relationship with them, what is, likely to be the consequence of that mistake as compared to the consequence of what we are going to do. We see this in the, for example, in the Mahabharata when Bhima is first poisoned by Duryodhana. So at that time, he survives by a miraculous arrangement. He survives by a miraculous arrangement.

He is thrown into the water but the the whole cross story we won’t go into that but he survives and comes back. Now when he comes back he is furious and he wants to head out at Durovan. And Yudhishthir says no. He says we have just come into this kingdom. We don’t even know who is actually favorable to us, who is unfavorable to us.

And, we don’t want to create a whole dissension in the whole community. And Biyushma, although he is very kind, he is bound by vow to the ruling king. So he says, let us keep quiet and be more cautious. Now Bhima just can’t I just he said he tried to kill me. How can you just stay silent about that?

Now Yudhishthir takes this decision but if he uses it by nature, although he is a shalsar kshatriya, he by nature is a person who tries to resolve things as peacefully as possible. Mhmm. But then things seem to go worse. And eventually what happens is that they try to have them all burnt alive in Varanavath. And this time they have to flee and escape.

There are too many life items, they don’t just emerge back, but then they wait. In the forest, what happens? There, they go to Drupadhi Swyamvara and they get then their alliance is formed with Drupadha. Now now they are not just orphan boys against the ruling king of Khuru. Now they are the sons sons in law of another powerful kingdom.

And those who had gone out, you know, and apparently had died, apparently they come back victorious. And they are welcome and Nitraashtra used their kingdom back in that time. Time. So the point is that was what he did at that time a mistake? We you Bhima could have felt that it was a mistake, but in the long run, you could say that it was success because they were allied with the powerful kingdom.

Others, you could also say it was a mistake. It was a because Durudan only became more aggravated. Maybe Durudan’s evil tendency could have been nipped in the bud at that time. We don’t know. Life doesn’t come with such a clear guarantees of this is right and this is wrong.

We just use our best intelligence and do the best that we can. So if if there is a particular way to act and somebody is acting in a different way, then we have to basically decide whether this is a battle I want to fight. There are many things wrong in the world and, even in Krishna’s movement, there can be many things which are not right. This is so I am the first point I made is that sometimes we cannot even be sure whether something is wrong or not because in life it’s not so clear what is right what is wrong. But let’s assume that somebody is doing something wrong.

But, then even then whether it is our position to correct it. We have to decide that. Sometimes we may decide this is so important for me that I’m going to fight for this. Sometimes I may decide that, you know, this is this is not good, but this is not what I want to be involved in. I cannot get involved in this.

There are there are other more important things which I want to do in my life. Then we may decide that, okay. I just live with this but I focus on, my service. And if in my service, I’m dedicated, then I grow by that. And maybe in future, Krishna will give me the power to set something right.

Prabhupada saw saw so many saw so many things wrong in Gaudiya Math. He spoke out also in one of the vast puja ceremonies of Bhakti Vedaakur. He said that, what are we doing? We’re just running our mathas and feeding our bellies. What are we doing for the mission?

Relatively speaking, in the Gaudevan hierarchy, Prabhupad was a was a grastha and a junior godbrother. So many of his godbrothers didn’t appreciate his speaking like that. Yeah. But they didn’t, he spoke it out and they didn’t listen. And eventually Prabhupada continued doing what he was doing and he came to America.

And then he may he was empowered to do a lot. So he couldn’t set things right in Gaudiya Math at that time, but then he did something right separately. But when in ISKCON only things would sometimes go wrong, Rupad would come down heavily on some devotees. No. This you should not be doing like this.

Sometimes you just let them do what they’re doing and gradually learn a lesson. So, of course, Prabhupada is in the position of authority over here. But I’ll give you an example. Prabhupada in Gaudiya Math. He tried, but when it didn’t work, he just moved on.

So basically if something is clearly wrong, then we have to decide whether this is a battle we want to we want to choose. And if we decide this is what I want to fight then we should we have to do it in a very respectful way. This is a technical subject, but I’ll just give that quickly as an example. In our tradition, the first major commentary in the Bhagavatam which we have is by Shirdar Swami. Chetan Mahapu very respected the commentary of Shirdhar Swami.

But Shirdhar Swami in his commentary has on several places given impersonalistic interpretations. And Chaitanya Mahapu said that Bhagavatham is our primary book. Bhagavatham is, the ripened fruit of the Vedic literature and Bhagavathamathir says that. And Goswami Shirdar Swami’s commentary is the authority commentary. Now, what do you do?

Bhagavad Gita is the authority to your book and the authority commentary is impersonistic. Not everywhere, but some places. Now Shirdar Swami was a very, very exalted devotee, but he sort of, he was officially affiliated with the impersonalistic Sampradaya, Advaitabad, and he brought bhakti into Advaitabad from inside. Like, there’s Advait Sampraday and there’s Bhakti Sampraday. They’re 2 opposite.

But but he was inside nominally or officially affiliated with Advaita Sampraday, So he had to give some Advaitic interpretations. But for the Advaitans also, he showed. Actually, this Bhagavatam is bhakti. So he had a particular purpose when he did it that way. But Yuga Swami had another purpose.

So Juga Swami while explaining the Bhagavatam has to explain many places which is not just different from but opposite to what Shriya Swami is saying so how does he do it Whenever he can. If Shirdar Swami has given a devotional commentary he quotes Shirdar Swami and he treats Shirdar Swami like the authority commentary. He says Bhashya iti. Bhashya means by default it is the basha at that time the basha was a tudar swami. But whenever Shridar swami has given some impersonalistic interpretation so he doesn’t mention Shirdar swami by name.

He says according to an imaginary interpretation. And he said like this. But this is the problem. This is this this and this is how it should be. This is the right understanding.

So what he does is he does not personally name and target Shindar Swami. So that is the way he is respectful. He quotes him when he is right and he avoids the name when he is wrong or when when he is giving a giving a impersonalistic interpretation. Similarly, if we are going to challenge something which the senior is doing we have to be respectful. We shouldn’t be dismissive.

And respectfully we can express a different opinion and see how things go. Sometimes if we do it respectfully it may be that they also understand yeah this is right and they may change. Does that answer your question? Yes. Thank you.

Any other questions? You had a question, Yes. Normally, people, sometimes they ask, like, you know Okay. I got I remember the question. I remember the question.

So, if we go to hell or if we suffer for our bad karma, we don’t remember it, then what is the use of that suffering? Yeah. It’s a Sorry. Say it again. I don’t I don’t know.

Yeah. You can repeat. In hell, people suffer, but then when we take this book, we forget all everything about that. Yeah. See, the purpose of the material world ultimately is spiritual evolution, to help the soul learn to grow toward Krishna, to allow Krishna, and to ultimately attain Krishna.

And everything within the world is meant for that purpose. So even the law of karma is meant for prompting the soul to turn toward Krishna. Although the law of karma, we say it is a law of cause and effect, it is a law of actions and reactions, but the point of the law of karma is not vindictive. Vindictive means you did this, so you suffer this. It’s the point of the law of karma is educative.

And it’s the education is not so much about specifics. See, the specifics have been told in broad principle in scripture. ‘If you do this, this will happen, if you do this, this will happen, broadly. But real life is complicated. It is when we get a particular reaction, some reactions, normally we say action A leads to reaction B.

That’s a that’s a very simplified understanding of karma. Sometimes action a might lead to a series of reactions b, c, d, e, f, g, h, I, j, k. So many things can come because of one action. Conversely, a reaction d might be because of action c or reaction d might be a combined reaction for a b c, all actions. So one action can lead to many reactions.

One reaction can be the result of many actions. In real life, things are complicated. So if somebody gets a lifelong disease, it’s incurable. Now is that for one particular karma that they have done or it’s it’s going to stay lifelong? We don’t know.

It’s complicated. So if we start looking for, you know, why something happened, ‘okay, this suffering came upon me because of this.’ It’s so complex we’ll get lost in the past. It’s because at every moment something is happening. Say, if I’m walking along, I slip and fall. Now should I know why I slip and fall?

Then, you know, if we start thinking about which action led to which reaction, or then at what level do we stop? At what level we do we stop thinking about, okay, this, let me just move on. You know, I’m driving the road and I get a lot of traffic today. Is it because of my past karma? Is it because of my present karma only?

And I chose to go at a time when I’m travelling when it’s crowded. So it’s complex. So if you start getting as the Bhagavatham says Bhagavata says rather. So it’s very difficult for us to know and it doesn’t it will just get caught in technicalities. In, in, specifics where the ultimate purpose is not so much that you have got this suffering because of this karma.

The ultimate purpose is to basically get the soul to evolve in consciousness toward Krishna. And that purpose, the principle of karma, serves in a generic way. So when the soul goes to hell and returns, or the soul goes to hellish suffering and returns, whichever and comes out, there is much that is impressed at a subconscious level. All of us have a sense of conscience. The specifics of their conscience may vary, but all of us understand that there are some things which weill just not do.

It’s not to be done. These things, yeah, I’ll do. These things I should not do, but maybe I’ll do it. If I’m pressured about this, unacceptable. Out of question.

So we have where do we get that from? It’s not just from our culture or our upbringing. It also comes from our previous lives. So you could say that the prince the the purpose of suffering is reorientation. It is not just it is not education of particular cause of the suffering.

That reorientation happens not necessarily through recollection of specific the code of human specific rights and wrongs, but rather assimilation about the like or rather assimilation about assimilating the nature of reality. So suffering so even pleasure what purpose does it serve? It’s it’s very it’s very difficult to be discreet about these things. Even in day to day life, if if somebody falls sick, did they feel fall sick because their immunity is low? Did they fall sick because the weather was bad?

Did they fall sick because they ate something in appropriate? Did they fall sick because they were with somebody who was infected and they got an infection? It could be a, b, c, d, or it could be a, b, and c, and d. We don’t know. So usually, doctors we need to try to analyse the cause to some extent.

But, you know, when we are analysing the cause, the focus is on taking the treatment. We start getting into specifics. How do you know? Why did I get this? Why did I get malaria?

Oh, mosquito. But where did the mosquito bite me? Where did it bite me? You can’t know the specifics. So we shouldn’t it’s it’s difficult to expect the way we we function in the world.

Some things we understand cause effect in specifics. Some things we don’t understand. And that applies to karma, the principle of karma and the suffering because of that also. Okay? Any other questions?

Okay. So let’s move on to the 3rd part. So, till now, I discussed about the Ramayana, and they have come till Angga Ang because of Angad’s incidental speech, they have now come to the banks of they have come to know that Sita is there. And all the monkeys, they charge, rush towards the ocean delighted. Oh, we’re gone.

Now where Sita is? And they are jumping in joy and they come to the coast of ocean and then suddenly they look at the vast ocean and they fall silent. And they start looking at each other. We know where Sita is, but how are we going to get there? How do we get across the ocean?

They realize this is unscalable. So at that time, as they’re all waiting, they think, what do I do now? And they start talking with each other. Angad tries to again boost the spirits. Angad is the leader still, and he has somehow it seemed that the day was lost, but he he saved the day.

His his accidental words saved the day. So he still feels such like he says, I’m sure many of you will be able to jump across the ocean. Oh, monkeys, please speak. How far can you jump? And they all start speaking, and none of them can jump as far.

It’s geographical specifics are not important, but the principle is that they are not able to jump across. Now here is a very significant point that all the monkeys are they are servants of Ram. They all want to serve Ram. They all have a sincere desire. Not only they have a desire, but they have been instructed by Ram ultimately to go on this mission.

But still, not all of them have equal abilities. Just because somebody is devoted or somebody is instructed doesn’t necessarily automatically mean that everybody will be equally empowered. And the monkeys here, the Vanaras have the honesty to admit their limitations. And if you don’t have that, say somebody is not good at handling finances, and they decide we’re gonna do a we’re gonna build a big temple for Krishna. And then they get get finances, but they don’t handle it properly, and they will lose the money.

Just because we are serving Krishna doesn’t mean that we are automatically qualified to do every service for Krishna. So sincerity is, of course, important, and Krishna is bhava grahi. Krishna sees, the sincerity of our intent in terms of how eagerly we want to serve him. But that doesn’t mean that we will be able to do anything and everything. There are certain things which we can do, certain things which we can’t do.

That’s possible we may say Krishna can empower us to do anything. Yes, but Krishna empowers by his plan, not our plan. That means we may say, oh, Prabhupada is one person, and he was so empowered that he preached all over the world.’ Yes. That is true. Prabhupada was extraordinarily empowered, but he was empowered by Krishna’s time plan.

And for you could say now can I just can you say that that means for if Robal was empowered, why was his preaching not successful in India? From 1921 to 1965, practically, 2022, more than 40 years, there was not much happening. So even a pure devotee like Prabhupada, he was empowered by Krishnais plan. So now if we find out that certain service is required, and we don’t have the ability for it, what do we do? It is that it requires humility to admit our inability.

Many times people just, you know, brag about their abilities, especially in today’s competitive world when people have to promote everybody has to promote themselves. So then one of my friends was in IIM and he said that one of the major IIM is a top top management institute in India. He said that we learned a major part of how to make your CV as attractive as possible. So one of these days is if you are walking along the road and you see a tap is on and you switch off the tap, you see you can write that I am an environmental activist conserving water on the planet So sometimes in today’s competitive world, we might feel that I I have to I have to to promote myself. And, yes, we don’t we need to have a proper presenting ability, but if we pretend to have the ability that we don’t have say, I talked earlier about hierarchy.

Hierarchies which are based simply on on privilege or, genealogy or wealth, this can be exploitative. But a hierarchy that is based on competence, that is desirable. There’s somebody who can somebody who wants to get to the top of the hierarchy, but they don’t have the ability that is required at the top of the hierarchy. And all that will happen is they will hurt themselves and they will hurt everybody else in that hierarchy. So if one of the monkeys who had said who couldn’t jump across the ocean, that monkey said, I want to jump across the ocean.

And he would have gone, and he would have probably fallen the ocean and perished. And even if he had not, somehow he had survived and come back, all the other monkeys would have been waiting. They would have lost. They would have, lost time. They would have lost so much, of, maybe lost somebody who lost life at this risk life.

So, you know, if we don’t have the ability to be at the top of the hierarchy, that doesn’t mean that we are useless. We all have our opportunities where we can do some services, but an aspect of bhakti is at one level we have faith that Krishna can empower anyone to do extraordinary things. But to think that I am empowered or think I will be empowered, now that might be presumptuous. So we have to both be open to Krishna’s Krishna’s potential to empower us. We can’t I I will never be able to do this.

No. We might be able to do more. But if we can’t do something right now, acknowledging it is important. When we acknowledge it, then we can work to fix it as it is required. So now when the monkeys spoke like this, at that time, Angad said that I I could conceivably jump across, but that’ll drain me so much that I won’t have the energy to leap back again.

Jambavan said that when I was young, I could have jumped across the whole earth, but now I can’t. So as they were thinking like this, there’s one person who was silent. Who was that? Hanuman. Hanuman.

So Hanuman, he is silent, and then Jumbo and turned towards him. And he says, oh, Hanuman, why are you silent? Hanuman, it was almost like, you know, this is out of question for me. So he was not even speaking his voice. But then Jambavan, he started speaking about the glories of Anuman.

He Anuman had been cursed with forgetfulness, but it was like a not a permanent forgetfulness. It was you see, the point was that he had ability, he had powers, but at that time, he was abusing the powers. He was as a small mischievous child, He was, troubling the sages. Sometimes he would take all the sacred paraphernalia and just carry it away. Sometimes he would, extinguish their yagna.

Sometimes he would just basically do all kinds of mischievous things. And because he had mystic powers, so nobody could catch him also. And then the sages told sages told his parents, but sometimes, you see it so much young some so much childish, impetuous energy that even his parents couldn’t do anything. And in that sense, Hanuk, that energy was so much. See, there is, children always have energy.

But if you give them power that is disproportionate with energy. And if a child is given like a automatic machine gun, hey, that’s dangerous. The child may not intend to harm anyone, but they don’t have the maturity to understand. And therefore, their power at that age with him was not wise. So they took away the power from him.

And they said that when somebody reminds you of this power for a cause bigger than yourself, then you will remember. Then you will come back, and you’ll gain this power back. So Jambavan started glorifying. And as you started glorifying raha glorifying Hanuman, slowly but surely, what happened? Hanuman’s memory started coming.

And as his memory started coming, his his confidence started coming back, and his confidence started manifesting in terms of his increased physical size. Jambavan was speaking to him, and Hanuman and Jambavan were the same height. But as Jambavan started glorifying Hanuman, Hanuman started becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. And Jammu became more and more jubilant. See, Hanuman becomes bigger and bigger.

Like, you’re talking with someone and you look up. Hey. What happened? So he started becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. And then Hanuman spoke in a thunderous voice.

He said, yes. I will jump across the ocean. I will find Sita, and I’ll come back. And Hanuman ran and leaped up to a nearby small hill, and then he poised, and he leaped into the sky. As he leaped into the sky, the by the pressure the hill just moved back, and trees flew out of the hill.

The pressure was so great. And Hanuman leaped into the sky. And as Hanuman marched like a missile through the sky, He flew like that. All the monkeys cheered. The monkeys, as they’re fly as they saw Hanuman flying, says, our best wishes and prayers for your well-being.

And he said, we can’t help you. We can’t be there with you, but we will be praying for you. And Angad said, and all of us will perform tapasya to give the credits of that pay austerity to you. What are the austerity? They said they will stand in yogic posture on one foot with their hands upraised praying like asana.

They said they will stand like this for as long as you back, as long as you’re away. When you come back, till that time you’ll be performing this austerity. So they couldn’t be the lead player, but that doesn’t mean that they said, okay. You do everything. We’ll relax.

They were in their own way offering their good wishes, the the results of their mystic mystic austerities to Hanuman. So Hanuman, he later on so Hanuman the whole story of Hanuman going to Lanka and finding Sita is itself a big adventure. But without going into the specifics of that, we’ll focus on the team spirit. So now when Hanuman comes back, he tells his what he has achieved to paint as alone going into the enemy kingdom. And not only finding Sita, he finds Sita, and then he decides that let me do some more service.

So he decides he wants to give a warning to Ravana and he also decides that let me do some reconnaissance to find out how what the military formations in Lanka are and thus he starts disrupting the garden in which Sita is there. And then he’s able to finally go before Lanka before Lanka, as king Ravana give him a stern warning, and then he sets half of Lanka on fire. And he comes back. Now when he comes back, at that time, he’s just roaring in joy, in exaltation. He’s flying back, and the Manaras are waiting for him.

They hear him before they see him. And they’re all jubilant. But just by the sound, they you know, if somebody is speaking itself in a very cheerful tone. So wherever they’ve gone, it was even successful. So they become happiest by hearing that.

And then Anubhrant descends, and they all surrounding him and tells his whole story. And he says, when they hear finally how what all he has done, they’re stunned. They’re delighted. But when they hear that Sita has only had 2 months remaining, Ravan has given her, 1 year’s period. He says, if you don’t give yourself to me, then I will I’m going to take you.

He says, I’m going to have you. If you don’t give yourself to me, then I will have my rakshis cook you, and you’ll be my breakfast. So he is a he’s a demon. He’s a rakshis. He’s a cannibal.

When they hear Teshita is in great danger, the Vanara say, oh, no. We need to go back immediately. And they all rush back. Now when they rush back, at that time, they’re also delighted that when they return to Sugriva many incidents in between or a few incidents in between but they return to Sugriva it is Sugriva who is told Angad tells we have found Sita we got information and Angad is so delighted. So we so it’s Angad who gives the first information because he’s the team leader.

But then when they say, let’s go to Ram. And then Ram tells, Ram asked, what happened? And then Hanuman tells the whole story. And, when Hanuman tells the whole story, Ram is astonished and distressed to hear about Sita being afflicted, and then again delighted to hear about Anuman’s chastising and burning Lanka. And finally, when, Anuram, when Anuram completed the whole story, Ram says that, oh, Hanuman, now you have done such an extraordinary service for me.

What can I offer you in return? He says, I have nothing. I am in the forest, have nothing. Therefore, he says, I will offer you myself. And he invites you.

Embrace. And Hanuman many of you may see this picture of Ram embracing Hanuman. So there, when Hanuman receives that embrace. If Hanuman is embraced, but through that, all the Manas are also blessed. Hanuman does the outstanding service, but ultimately, they’re all successful.

And when Ram embraces Anuman, it is for Anuman, that is the perfection of his life, to be and to be blessed by the Lord in that way. Ashri Vaishna commentator on the Ramayana says that actually that Ram is the same as Narayan, and on Narayan, his body, Lakshmi, resides. So when Hanuman embraces sorry, Hanuman is embraced by Narayan, and then that Narayan, who is the supreme wealth in the universe, who is adorned by the source of all the wealth in the universe, by the goddess of fortune, That lord, he embraces him. That means that actually Hanuman becomes supreme enriched by the tongue. Hanuman gets the supreme wealth because the ultimate attraction in the world is the all attractive supreme.

And that we want to get attracted to the supreme, but if somebody does a service, by which the supreme becomes attracted, there is no greater attainment than that. And that is the culmination. So this is the mission on which this team had gone is a stupendous success. For all of this, not only Sita found, not only is Ravan born, not only is Ravan given a demonstration of Ramis power, but also those who have gone on this mission, especially Hanuman, who has been spectacularly successful, heis personally and profoundly blessed by Ram. So this is the success of this team.

You could say it’s a team of monkeys, but it’s a team of those who are devoted to Ram. And they are not ordinary monkeys. They are great devotees, although they are manana bodies, but they work together, achieve this success in the service of Ram. So to summarize, I spoke on this team of teamwork in the Ramay, started by talking about how every team requires a hierarchy. No.

We live in an age of egalitarianism where we like equality. But to do anything in life, some people are better to do doing it than others. So, if a higher functioning hierarchy is formed then those who are good at it are best to best positioned at the top of that hierarchy. So, when any hierarchy is there, a team involves equality because every member is there in the team and every member is to be valued. But at the same time, for the team to take a particular task, there has to be a hierarchy.

So, how that hierarchy is used to serve the purpose that is what we discussed. So, I talked about there are there may be how Hanuman emerges a natural leader. So, there is appointed leader and there is an emergent leader. So the appointed leader is Angad because he is the royal prince. But although he is young, he tries his best to lead the team.

And he discussed about how the hierarchy is formed based on any purpose other than competence. And then it often becomes exploitative. It can become tyrannical. But if competence is not recognized and hierarchy is disjected because of that, then we will have chaos. We can even have disaster.

We can’t have equality between the pilot and the passengers. The plane will crash then. The pilot is is the lead over there. So I talked about how the left and the right need to be in dialogue. The left wants to flatten hierarchies because hierarchy, they say, becomes exploitative.

The right wants to maintain hierarchy because hierarchy leads to productivity. It gets things done. So now sometimes the hierarchy is exploitative and the left is right and things to be adjusted. And sometimes the right is right, and, hierarchy has to be maintained if we have to get things done. So, it s only when there s a discussion that things can move forward.

And then I talked about the first challenge was that when they were starving, they came into the they went into the cave where, Anumahan emerged as a natural leader by his speaking ability. So he ensured that the Anaras didn’t pounce on the fruits when they saw it. He waited and pleased so Emperor Bha with his words and then they were able to eat without any harm. And then because of the mystic arrangement of the cave, they couldn’t come out. Then Hanuman persuaded Prayampraba for the sincerity of his purpose and then she not only took them out but brought them out further south, closer to their goal.

So there both temptation and tribulation can be obstacles on the spiritual path, on any path we are pursuing. Then we need to persevere through both. And Hanuman leads them both through that leads them through both of these. Then eventually searching and they can t find and they become discouraged. The month is over.

So Angad especially is his first assignment and he s he has failed so he becomes demoralised. He starts casting aspersions on Sugriva. And he has residual resentment because his father has been killed because of Sugriva. So, at that time Hanuman doesn’t openly threaten or criticise Sugri. How dare you?

Sorry. He criticise Angadha. He say. He doesn’t say how dare you speak like this about Sugri. But he tries to gently persuade Angadha.

There’s a problem, and Angaida is so disheartened that he says that I’m going to fast to death. And, Anuman is remembering the Lord, trying to, resolve the issue at that time. Help comes in an unexpected way in the form of a bigger problem. So, if we men if sometimes we are not going to do a service, but if we maintain our service attitude, Krishna will give us a way ahead. So, circumstantially, Sampati comes over there, and Andhada speaks, oh, our fate is going to be like jitter and that’s how the Sampati reveals his identity, relationship with and Sampati reveals where Sita is across Lanka.

So rather than losing hope when things are not working out, If you just keep doing what we can, Krishna can open doors if you just maintain the service attitude. And then we talk about how the vanaras couldn’t actually jump across. Although they were instructed by the lord, although they were devoted, although they were eager to serve, but still sincerity is not always a substitute for ability. They acul humility means to acknowledge one’s inability. They acknowledge it, and then they couldn’t move ahead, and then they allowed.

Then that’s how the focus shifted to Hanuman, and Hanuman was reminded by Jambavan. And that’s how Hanuman came into his own, assumed a large form, and jumped across Lanka. And then eventually, when Hanuman came back and revealed the whole story to Ram, Ram blessed him by his personal embrace. And he who is the supreme shelterer, the supreme treasure of the universe, gave himself to Hanuman. And, thus, their mission was supremely successful.

So, thank you very much. Hare Krishna. So any questions? Sometimes in Krishna consciousness we might find ourselves in a position of leadership in a field that we don’t feel ourselves confident or we don’t feel ourselves, good at? So what do you so if we are made leaders in a field where we are not com good at, what do we do?

Yeah. It’s good to admit our inability but sometimes, it’s like we don’t have an option between a good choice and a bad choice. The only option is between a bad choice and the worst choice. So what do you do at that time? So if many times we have a severe shortage of devotees And in the situation, we might be the only person available, you know, Prabhupad.

When the, when the Juhu land controversy was going on at that time he the devotees were going to being threatened by the person who was surrendering the land, Mr. N and the devotees were getting, intimidated by him. So they were thinking that he said that they’re thinking of just cancelling the whole contract. And Prabhupada Prabhupada was not a person who talked much on phone. So Prabhupada sent Vishakha Matanjai at that time.

He said, you go. And Prabhupada wrote a strongly worded worded letter, and he said that you go and personally deliver this. So he did that, but by that time it was too late. And the the devotees already cancelled the deal. Prabhupada was furious.

He says, who gave who told you to cancel the deal? Why did you do that? At that time, the devotees some of the devotees who were involved in their whole they come so disheartened. So they said, Prabhupad, we resign. Prabhupad said, why are you resign?

He said, I don’t want you to resign. He says, you made a mistake, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want you to do your service. So Prabhupada, was angry with them for the mistake that they had committed, but that does not mean that he didn’t have trust in, trust in them or he didnit want them to be leaders. So now at that time if you see it was very difficult for them. They were probably in their twenties and they were in a foreign land.

And Indians always think that anybody from the west has a lot of money. In fact, Indians think that if Indians have gone to the west, they also want a lot of money. Now it may be true, it may not be true. The devotee is they were they were being taken for a ride and they were you could say that they were not the most competent people for that, but there was no one else. They had to take up the leadership and they did that.

And, we see the Krishna consciousness movement as quite vibrant in India also now. So if we have to take up a service which we are not good at, then we can express our inability, express our, our feeling of inadequacy for that service. But if we are told to do that, then we move we do our best and move on. And sometimes we may need more regular guidance than somehow somebody who is expert. Sometimes if you have to take our services which you are not good at, we might not take it in a big way.

We can start in a small way so that even if something’s go wrong, it’s not not a big negative result. It’s, there are different contexts. If it’s a service where nobody is there and the service has to be done, then we move forward and do it. But usually those are services which are often things which we do learn. The services which we have are not life and death situations.

It’s not like if we are going to war, if we don’t know a weapon, we will be killed. It’s not literally like that. So, if we can’t do something, we learn from it and we either do it ourselves or maybe Krishna will help somebody else after some time. We see how we move on. Thank you.

Any other questions? Yes, miss? Yes, ma’am. How would you approach if someone is trying to sort of push Yeah. That’s true.

If somebody is trying to push themselves up in the position. So it happens sometimes that some devotes some people in general they are a bit too self promotional. So it’s always good to give people benefit of doubt. That means rather than thinking that this self promotion is because of ego, we could say that they just have a service attitude and they they want to do more service and if they have more position, they can do more service. So we don’t wanna be naive but we don’t have to be hypercritical also.

So if that is not if their self promotion is not really hurting anyone or harming anyone, then we will just give them a benefit of doubt. Maybe they just want to serve more. And if they’re given more more facility, they can do more service. That’s what their longing is. That’s it if, what they’re doing is not hurting anyone.

Just that they keep speaking that. And and everybody also, learns this is how this person is, and he’ll live with that. But sometimes in trying to promote oneself, people start pulling others down. Oh, he doesn’t know how to do it. I can do it better.

She doesn’t know how to do it. I’ll do it much better. And then they start pointing out all this wrong. This is wrong. That is wrong.

That is wrong. Then we have to be a little careful about it. We don’t want to start gossip and backbiting and criticism. You know, gossip, when does it happen? It happens when we hear something we like about someone we don’t like.

When we hear something we like about someone we don’t like. Oh, really? I wanna tell everyone about this now. It becomes like that. So we don’t want to have that kind of backbiting starting in our moment.

So if they are pulling if they are pushing themselves up, that’s just we can give them the benefit of doubt. But in pushing themselves up, they start pulling someone else down, then they may have to take a stand over there. Right? They are doing, don’t criticize others. And sometimes some people just have to learn by experience They push themselves up, they try to do some service which they they are not qualified for the thought, they are not qualified for, but they think they are qualified for, and then they they crash, and then they learn.

So, sometimes it might just be that somebody doesn’t know a ticket. So we don’t have to be self promotional like it is in the outside world. Then if we just tell them as devotees, you know, we don’t promote ourselves like that. Today morning Chaitanya Chaitanya Mahaprabhu actually places himself as a student of his followers. So in devotional service there are times when we can talk about our qualification but there are times we can also talk about our lack of qualification.

But it is mostly that qualifies us. So, sometimes if we help people to understand the devotional etiquette that also helps them to choose better. Okay? Thank you. So thank you very much.

Thankyou

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