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2014 09 26 SB 10 50 55 57 Krishna Establishing the City of Dwaraka Sridama Prabhu ISKCON Chowpatty

Lecture Podcast

Did Shiva Give Vishnu the Sudarshan Chakra?

My wife showed me this painting and asked, ”What story is this?

This story is not from any Purāṇa, or any Upaṇiṣad or from any Veda. Some devotees of Śiva wrote a poem called Śrī Śiva Mahimna Stotra, in which they claim that Viṣṇu got the Sudarśan Cakra from Śiva.

Their idea is that Viṣṇu could not defeat the asuras to protect the devas, so he went to seek Śiva’s help.

Śiva was in trance, so Viṣṇu worshipped him for many, many days by offering 1,000 lotus flowers, and chanting Śiva’s name with each flower he offered. Finally Śiva came out of trance while Viṣṇu was gathering flowers. He stole one of the flowers Viṣṇu had already gathered and pretended to still be in trance. When Viṣṇu ran out of flowers at 999, instead of not completing the worship, he took out his eye and offered that as the 1000th lotus flower. (you can see this on top of the Lingam in the picture, it seems)

Then Śiva gave Viṣṇu the discus and Viṣṇu could then defeat the asuras.

The story is nice for those who are devotees of Śiva and don’t really care much how accurate their devotion is. But for those who value accuracy — it makes no sense (a) that Viṣṇu would be unable to defeat the asuras, since the Purāṇa’s have hundreds of stories showing how easily Viṣṇu defeats the asuras time after time. It also makes very little sense (b) that Śiva would be able to give Viṣṇu a weapon that is more powerful than he himself is (there is at least one Purāṇic account that not even Śiva and Brahmā could save someone from the Sudarśana chakra that was chasing him).

What does make sense is that this story is just a poem that some Śiva devotees wrote, which became very popular among them. It does not have any authoritative origin.

It also does make sense that Śiva and Viṣṇu would respect and worship one another, since they love each other immensely and are both expansions of Nārāyaṇa. It’s unfortunate, though, when their followers and devotees try to raise one to prominence at the expense of the other.

The Key Difference Between Mayavada and Bhaktivada

In Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (3.24.31), Kardama says:

Ah! Even though he is beyond the delimitation of form, the All-Attractive appears in such beautiful forms just to delight his own beloved devotees!

The Supreme Being is beyond delimitation, beyond form, and beyond comprehension. However, to enjoy the bliss of love, he delimits himself within infinite forms that come into the comprehension of his devotees. He enjoys doing so because he enjoys the bliss of delighting those who love him.

So, how is this different from māyāvāda?

Māyāvāda claims that "the Supreme Being is beyond delimitation, beyond form, and beyond comprehension.” So does Kardama, representing the bhakti-siddhānta.

Then what is the difference?

Māyāvāda claims that the forms taken by the Supreme Being, such as in his many avatāra, are limitations of him imposed by Māyā (illusion), and he seeks to become free from these limitations and return to his formless state.

Kardama (representing bhakti-siddhānta) makes a very different claim: the forms taken by the Supreme Being, such as in his many avatāra, are accepted by his freewill, as a result of his natural, inherent desire to enjoy bliss by exchanging love with his distinctly manifested energies.

In short, Māyāvāda claims that the Supreme Being has form because it comes under the sway of illusion (Māyā), but Kardama claims that the Supreme Being has form because he enjoys it.

The sum difference between the two claims is that Māyāvāda makes no sense, while Kardama’s bhaktivāda makes very good sense. It makes no sense to suggest that the Supreme Being can come under the sway of anything unpleasant (such as illusion). But it makes very good sense to suggest that the Supreme Being can do anything he pleases by his infinite freewill, in the pursuit of his intrinsic desire to experience bliss.

This is exactly the difference between Māyāvāda and truly Siddhāntik Vedānta.

(Kadamba Kanana Swami, 13 April 2013, Amsterdam, Netherlands, Srimad Bhagavatam Lecture)

When we surrender, Krsna reciprocates by revealing knowledge. At that stage, knowledge of Srimad Bhagavatam is no longer just theoretical. Now when we read through it and we can go, ‘Okay, seven oceans containing: salty water, sugar-cane juice, liquor, clarified butter, milk, emulsified yogurt and sweet drinking water. I mean, come on! I mean, how can it be?’

One starts to think – fairy tales! In the beginning, the Bhagavatam is theoretical – we are exploring it, we are reading it but the interesting part is that as we surrender to Krsna and as we live our lives according to the directions of the Srimad Bhagavatam, we begin to realize the Bhagavatam and our perception changes. Krsna will give us insights and knowledge, and that is where the Bhagavatam comes alive. Gradually, we see that the Bhagavatam is not only in the book but it is everywhere – it is life! We actually see that this knowledge is reality, then we walk around in the world in the Bhagavat consciousness! This is the way to relate to the Bhagavatam by seeing through the eyes of scriptures. We are not only reading it intellectually but we are reading it devotionally, following it, practicing it and then realizing it deeper and deeper, until in the end of the Bhagavatam, in the tenth canto, we come to Krsna.

So many incarnations, the whole history of the universe, so many sages and so on, have been described before the tenth canto. In the ninth canto, the appearance of Lord Ramachandra has been explained, and in the tenth canto – Krsna! When Lord Ramachandra comes – he is the Supreme Lord – but he comes to teach dharma, to teach the duty for human beings. Therefore, he is acting as a human being and is following principles that human beings must follow. But the Lord is actually not bound by such limitations. Krsna comes to show how God himself can act and is acting. So, he steals! Lord Ramachandra does not steal, no, no! That is against dharma!  But Krsna steals and everybody knows it, everyone worships Krsna for it and everyone loves Krsna for it.

Every day, the cowherd boys are going into forest with Krsna and everyday their mothers are making lunch packages. The mothers go all out in making really, really amazing lunch packages with lots of tasty things inside because they know very well that the cowherd boys share and sometimes steal each other’s packages. They hope that one day, just one day, the lunch package that they made for their son will come in the hands of Krsna and Krsna will taste something. Therefore, every day they are making special lunch packages in the hope that one day Krsna will steal it! We worship Krsna as a thief!

Like this, the tenth canto takes us to Lord Krsna, and by then the Srimad Bhagavatam has primed us with the full knowledge of creation and all expansions of Lord. By now, we know that there is one Lord who has many forms; he is one, not two; he is infallible and he has no other origin than himself. In this way, we understand Krsna. After we have gone through these nine cantos, we are well prepared and have got some realization. Then we are ready to taste the sweetness of transcendental pastimes of Krsna and the Bhagavatam is actually meant for that.

ISKCON devotee Premamaya Vasudeva Das (Pierre Edel) has reached the third stage in Season 3 of the Russian version of TV singing competition show The Voice, an international phenomenon. At every opportunity along the way, he’s sharing what he knows about God consciousness, vegetarianism, and sacred mantras with judges, contestants, and journalists.

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